EWEB Board of Commissioners — October 6, 2022

0:01 the utility really really well so congratulations congratulations to them I wanted to thank commissioner borowsky as well as Susan Fricke for inviting me to participate with the Fairmount neighbors meeting her last last month I guess at this point commissioner for setting that up and then kind of on a sad note I don't know if Brown may remember Therese Hampton who who came to a commissioner's meeting with Arne Goldston to present some data very very instrumental person in the industry she passed away last week from a bicycling accident she's the former executive director

0:46 of the public generating pool of which eweb's been a part of for a long time just retired about six months ago and very close to a number of eweb staff and so definitely will be missed as both a colleague and a friend to a number of people at eweb so it was a tough week last week for a number of people again you Mr President okay thank you I'm Matt Tony a big um yes kind of mention the the neighborhood meeting that frankincense attended it went over really well the presentation was received well I think

1:32 by the neighbors we talked about a couple of things we talked about our water resiliency and some of the things that we've been doing up at McKenzie and then we also talked about electrification and Frank gave kind of his 20-minute speech on how how we get our power and where we get it from and it was enlightening and I think something that we'll be seeing more of throughout the rest of the community in the upcoming weeks and months many um I attended the listening sessions that we had here on the um Lieber Dam and just really want to thank staff for all of their hard work and putting together those presentations and the film that Adam put together really

2:18 fantastic and I um I see we got an agenda item about the liaison with the city so we'll get into that a little later one thing I do want to ask is that and John borowsky brought this up at the listening session earlier and I think it's a good point that there's a group of people that I'm not hearing from and that's the 86 000 great beers that we have here that are going to be affected by what we do up the river we haven't seen or heard from any of them and so I'm thinking that personally I'd like to ask if I could get eweb to help me take out a half-page ad in the guard and ask you know it's summarize the four options what they cost what it means in rates and say if you have input contact me and I know

3:05 that's leading with my chin I'm asking for but to do it right because we haven't heard from 80 86 000 people that are going to be affected by this for 20 years and we're going to strap somebody with a pretty big bill because normally when we spend 200 million bucks we generate power we pay that this is just a big hole in the wallet and I I would like to see if that passes the test of meat spending some money you know half page ads saying you know contact me or contact the entire board here's your words one and eight here's two and seven here's four and five and these are the options this is what it's going to cost if you want to give us input about what you want what's important to you tell us or get informed is that

3:50 something that's reasonable request so so commissioner I think it's it's definitely reasonable to reach out to the broader base of the constituency we did have a General survey that went out um I don't know how we have parsed out we we do know that by ZIP code for example so we can see how many are up for the river and Weiner how many are in town I don't believe that this should be on the individual Commissioners to respond to um I'll get with our Communications team and what we can specifically do to learn about an in-town response versus an upriver response and I think that's that's how I would like to approach it I don't think that you necessarily need to receive a number of phone calls I think

4:35 there's some ways that we can do it qualitatively and quantitatively using using some of our more traditional approaches to it but it might require a little bit of additional promotion so that that might receive D you know that's just my idea that I would like to do if others don't want to do it then chime in right now but I I want to make sure that we reach out to people this is going to affect for a really long period of time and it's in this you know this isn't an optional commodity this is something that you know people can't so I'm going to buy two of them they still have to have electricity and uh and it's going to affect them significantly over for a long long period of time I want to make sure that we've done everything at least I've done everything I can to outreach

5:20 to these people so yeah uh I'm I'm willing to send out like if we had a post or something on the social media I could send out something from like the next door neighborhood groups spread it I haven't done that yet if there's you know oblivity you'd like us to share we could book next door and things I'll get back anything else nothing then the next agenda item is going to be public input do we have anybody signed up for public input

6:06 okay public input I'm going to take executive privilege here and since I've done this a year until both two familiar faces with us do you mind if I just skip the three minute introduction and say you know the rules thank you very much the first person is Will Rutherford so how do we do this now right up to that imaginary Podium right there let's break into the microphone sure thank you good evening I'll keep this kind of short tonight um which is maybe unusual for me but I think I can make it in three minutes all I want to do is give a lot of accolades to your Communications team and the listening sessions that they've

6:52 been doing since June I guess uh Adam Spencer Mark senecker uh excuse me Jim Jeremy Samos and Lisa in particular but I know that's backed up by a lot of people who did a lot of studying a lot of analysis a lot of numbers and it was I attended nearly every one of the listening sessions up the river just cuz and uh I heard this one tonight down here and I don't think you could have prepared a team any better than those folks are probably prepared themselves with the visual aids the audio stuff and the way they handle issues questions challenges

7:38 I saw it all and erupt should be really really proud to have people like this on your staff representing you even though many of you aren't physically standard there I know you were in the number someplace it was just a well done effort thank you thank you well we really appreciate that thank you very much Tom would you like to come up to our yes I didn't prepare a statement I just told Frank I'd come this time because we met last month I just wanted to let you know I just came from a salmon workshop with over 30 participants in person and I did another 25 on Tuesday through Zoom so

8:25 salmon trips are on 65 tanks out in the classrooms and so lots of excitement around that and so again without your generous support we would not be able to serve students in that Way Bethel was also at my training so Bethel Kathy and I were both there and then working on keeping the virtual aspect up and going so anybody can access that same with the EV challenge later in the year and so just overall I just want to thank you and just kind of I really like super exhausted because my feet are literally on the ground and I'm around people all the time again so it feels really invigorating and again super grateful to be able to do this role and With Your sponsorship so thank you very much and yeah Mark eventually thanks thank you anybody else and

9:11 I know this is out of work and I have 20 more seconds you can excuse me for this I just Jerry Oster who has come to you with a couple different petitions uh was supposed to be here tonight I thought she said she and she probably got tangled up in the traffic if she came down Beltline but she has some more petitions I believe that she wants to share with you so even when she gets here I wonder if she could be accommodated yeah and she wants to deliver the petitions I'll I'll just if you're still here we'll just point her out to me and I'll just interrupt and we'll go from there I'm not going to open up a public session but if she wants to present them to the well she knows what to do yeah thank you okay thank you okay so I closed the public input

9:57 comments from commissioners they have any comments I just say thanks for making the time to be here and let us know what you're thinking I have a quick question on the salmon Watch program if I may I saw an article on the news the other night where Cobra Charter was up at our responding channel is that part of your program or that she is a Double Dipper and so she participates with the um the it used to be in water but now it's uh the Middle Fork folks so she does a trip with them and she also works okay because I you know because I've been kind of advocating getting not just the public schools but making sure we're doing the equity thing because there's a lot of private schools

10:42 and whoever Charter is not a public school and so I was just wondering if they're they are technically Charters our Public Schools they do receive funding and services from our district and Coburg is Under the Umbrella of 4J I know it's under yeah and I guess and I'm breaking the rules down but that was one thing that we Frank and a group of us met about this very thing and um ways to make some of the content that I am producing available to anyone that would like to access it and so that is something that is in the dialogue process right now and it's something that I'm looking for that's good because I just I'm not complaining I'm more than the merrier and I saw it looked like it was really good and productive but I just didn't know that they were in a charter school

11:28 also in the room so thank you very much any other questions or comments if not I thank you both and uh when she comes if she comes with them well I'll make sure I accommodate that thank you okay the next agenda item is going to be the approval consent calendar a I have a question about one item I don't know what the three of these parents for recreation Design Services and is that an A or B it's an a okay I'd like to pull that for a question sorry I didn't get it done earlier any other items of consent calendar a um remainder

12:13 three seconds all those any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye okay the one I ask you is about the uh it's a it's a yeah the Carmen Smith Design Services and I I just don't know if Karen can answer this question or not um or somebody can at least the credits is online I believe and she's the the person that would answer those questions I'm seeing where we're we're running a whole bunch of these and and these upgrades and things and looking at the amount of this but just a little thing that struck out to me was a hundred thousand dollars for site management for sign management

12:59 and it wasn't just curious how a hundred thousand dollars could be spent on managing signs yeah good evening Commissioners and the sign Management program is in a part of our Recreation and Aesthetics management plan under the Carmen license it includes both interpreted interpretive signage cultural and resource signage Fisheries signage those sorts of things that need to be managed over the course of the license so it includes design fabrication installation and and all of that it does it sounds like a a large number but there's quite a number of signs on that I can get more detail to you on what's included in that scope if that would be helpful no I'm just kind of commenting because it you said that design engineering and bid for for sign procurements 200 000

13:46 and then it's a hundred thousand to manage them and I just was wondering if that was a big you know if that's we don't do this all the time I'm sorry I'm getting into the weeds but I just was thinking that that seems like a lot of money to manage the size any response to that or any experience with it I I guess I would say that there's um there's scores of signs up there that include design and installation and management over the life of the license it does sound like a high number so if you if you'd like I can pull more details on that and get back to you well yeah I'm sorry to put you into that work but I saw the 200 000 to design and

14:31 create them in a hundred thousand manage them and and that was that's over the 40-year license it's it's a hundred thousand for 40 years or 100 000 for a term of this contract five years yeah as for the term of the contract for five years but presumably that will set us up for very little maintenance over time but again I think I I should probably get more information and get back yeah if if you don't mind don't too much effort I'm just curious of uh you know kind of watching the dollars how we spend a hundred thousand dollars managing signs thank you any other questions if not I'll move to adopt uh I think I don't know which one that was in the uh item two item two in uh

15:16 consent calendar a is there a second second any discussion all in favor signify by saying aye aye consent calendar B anybody want to pull anything let me pull them for free please number three is Paul vonkwarowski anything else I'll entertain a motion to adopt absent nine and three to approve the remainder session I was in favor signifies saying aye aye burrowski three's yours uh so three years increasing our legal contract from 3.2 to 10 over 10 million dollars it's allocated out uh and I'm just wondering you know some of the short lists

16:03 air unit um okay there we go um so it says some of it's called a farm Lear leiberg waltersville strategic analysis lieberg Regulatory and Libra property acquisitions are those is part of that seven million dollars being allocated into the numbers that we're looking at when we're looking at the 20 million or 220 million or 180 million dollars is that where is that going into our decision making with that so the assessment for special counsel in this case would be part of the analysis process it would not be included in the

16:50 hundred thousand there is only a portion of it that is for that the specialty services in that case have a lot to do with power contracts assessment of modeling and the value from a legal perspective of those of which we have to deal with which could include Burke by the way but I don't believe that those are in the 200 200 million sorry 200 million so so for me I guess again we're seeing Little Things we see a number 183 million dollars for an alternative blank 230 for alternative blank but then over the past two or three board meetings I keep saying

17:37 millions of dollars be spent on the Liebert project that aren't in those numbers so I to me is there a way that we're tracking the all of these numbers that are being attributed to this project that aren't in our scenario one two three and four yeah I'll I can get you guys said the legal uh is included in there so part of this yeah is going to the 200 into scenario one two three and four correct so legal services are included in all of the net present values for all four Alternatives a portion of which is anticipated over the course of this

18:23 contract with cable Houston but not all of it but the net present values that you're seeing do include our estimate of legal services for all alternatives okay that's what I needed to know thank you Thank you Lisa any other uh comments on that agenda item I thought I'd entertain a motion regarding uh consent calendar B item three second session um by saying aye aye opposed passes unanimously it's agenda item City View Gene liaison update President John Brown vice president Tony Carlson thank God

19:08 in our meeting with about okay okay Frank thank you oh great thank you so Commissioners we met with City leadership and Billy primarily did some information sharing From eweb's perspective we shared it uh a little bit more about the public safety power shut off and how that decision process was working because there were some differences in how we handled it in the South Hills for example versus up the Mackenzie Valley we also shared some information and updates on where we were in the process relative to a second water treatment plant in Glenwood we are working with the city

19:55 as well on changes to the public Facility Services plan and part of that process there's some information also and thank the city for their cooperation at the emergency site launch or the Sheldon emergency water station president Brown was there as well and a little bit of information on two things related to what the city's contemplating relative to electrification and other things one was I gave them a little more definitive time frame on our IRP process integrated resources planning process and then also that we plan on at the end of the year publishing our first version

20:40 of the climate guide book the new web climate guidebook which will have a number of technical references and talk about things such as carbon intensity and other things they also shared a little bit about their process and agreed that as they they go down and evaluate various emotions around electrification and the natural gas and electricity that they would reach out to eweb for further information as needed they see that as a number of steps coming up relative to information that's going to be shared by the good company and a number of other work sessions potentially and so we were

21:26 curious about the timing more than anything of that in their process related to eweb and so they they shared that that's going to be a number of months still as they go through that process pardon me the document from the study that was done I'll follow up on that that was the first study from The Good Company which was a residential study um yeah it's yeah we did come out and ask you want us to weigh in on some of your

22:11 decisions and they said yes and I was surprised to hear the mayor say that she didn't think she thought that we may not get yes this year I said you want anything from us he said yeah sometimes conversations are all the time to kind of get the dialogue going they did ask if we were going to leverage grants from about Second Source about getting money for that

22:58 huge natural impact to have on our race there so um generally how can they talk a little bit yeah she's out of state state community overall okay meaning maybe this is but um attention to what's going on in city council and you seem to get like more press or whatever

23:46 ask them to help get out the word issue announce that maybe at one of their companies or yeah you're looking at me I'm I'm you're preaching the choir I'm the one I want more input if we can get it from the 80s some odd thousand people here and that's I think we've got the public information people the general manager listening I think if there's a way to reach that they will figure that out the outside of the box and they make use of this relationship Hazel thing that we have with them

24:34 um that was the meeting [Music] that's okay um I'm just wondering if it would be advantageous to try and schedule the next meeting close to the first of the year or right after the first of the year so that if we can uh dovetail our legislative we could say what are you looking at standing up in Salem what are we looking at setting up in Salem can can we you know endorse some of your priorities and can you help us endorse some of our priorities in your legislative affairs uh you know and Jason tell us what he's looking for and can we ask them what they're looking for and maybe we can do it more of a united front between the

25:19 two might be a talking point at the next meeting and that's why I'm saying possibly try and do it before the legislative session starts or soon thereafter that might be something Community I think you're not just saying coordinate our lobbying efforts but perhaps do joint lobbying with City counselors with workers and counselors or Egypt although I'm just saying you know they've got lobbyists going up to Salem looking at things we've got lobbyists going up to Salem advocating for things if if their lobbyist is going into the room and saying you know we need this but you know there's also the U.S looking for Second Source um on the on the Willamette and you know they couldn't mention to that as one of the helping with their priorities that

26:04 if they have priorities that we can dumptail into some of our priorities and just again every everybody that goes into the room is helpful yeah and I would just say I guarantee that the staff are already working at that level but it might be interesting for us as we're doing lobbying days if we do that again to three council members and do that together well I mean Council just like we do Council says that they bring the legislative agenda to the council and the council approves it it's all of our things on their Council agenda we can do a couple of things at different levels so I can ask Jason to part up his recommendation in December

26:53 actually we're doing some of it in November and then a final approval of December to understand where there's commonality with the city and just with that in his report I know he and Ethan Nelson were close together at the staff level from a leadership perspective there may be opportunities such as your talk about to have eweb leadership understanding of the priorities from the city and eweb to see if there's opportunities when who's generally talking about it with this later so I think there's a staff level and then there's potentially a leadership level and then that goes back to the question that I asked Jason the last one can you come up

27:38 with a memo of things that I haven't seen that memo yeah and we we are in process of working on that we have talking points he's also working on a leave behind so that if you're actually talking to a legislator you can actually leave something with them so we're working on a number yeah John that's I appreciate that but I just I've spent more time trying to schedule these meetings with the city than I've been in the meetings I mean it's really challenging to get it we and we only had one of the two participants from the city at the last meeting and so it's been a huge challenge to make meetings to go so I need to hit something and that person yeah

28:41 I did want to note um you know that we've typically done those meetings but honestly if the legislators move in the area and before session you actually get more I actually want to do issues without I don't know that we do this time it may not warrant it sometimes easier for them procession the one issue that we already know is it's a primary issue for us has to do with the loss of water rights when it comes to hydrogeneration and so that is one that we would probably

29:26 fence with we do have a sponsor for that language being developed but that's an example to get out in front of it and before this episode excuse us that would have the contacts is that for the Warm Springs yeah that was the Supreme Court rules thank you anything else okay well that's uh the next gen item number eight the draft upcoming year uh electric and water budgets long-term Financial plans

30:18 not talking tonight I'm here to answer questions but I'm going to hand it over to the very capable staff who put in all the hard work here 's for the record to Marie Harwood financial services manager and with me this evening is Aaron Balmer fiscal services supervisor and Alicia Voorhees lead financial analyst and our CFL Giver so the last time you saw the long-term financial performance was back in July when we had brought forth with their respective assumptions this evening we have the updated long-term Financial plans for you to review and we are seeking Direction on the 2023 budget document next month we

31:04 will return with a more detailed budget document and along with proposed pricing proposals include the first of two public hearings on proposed prices the second public hearing our crisis will be in December at which point um the board May adopt the pricing proposal and improve a final 2023 budget documents let's Dive Right on in and I'll pass it on to Alicia to find the updates on the long-term financial plan good evening Commissioners as Tia mentioned we last presented the 10-year long-term Financial plans in July and since that time we have completed fulfilling Mary 2023 budgets and those have been incorporated as the base as the base year in the plans Additionally the plans include 2022

31:51 projected year-end cash flow to establish 2023 begin and cash balances we have also updated labor costs and FTE trajectory updated Revenue forecasts as well as interest earning assumptions for our cash Reserves turning to the electric utility our Market factors were updated which impacted both purchase power and wholesale Revenue we refined assumptions around Capital expenditures and funding for the capital planets related to debt issuances a great great financial all metrics are above Target throughout the plan though day's cash is straight for much of that time due to the use of rate funded cash to

32:36 fund Capital infrastructure Investments as well as increase debt issuance from large debt debt issuances in 2026 and 2029. despite the large debt issuances we are within board targets for debtors while remaining within the current rate trajectory balance significant investment in Liebert however has not been incorporated into this plan and we are waiting for a direction on that project the plan continues to assume a 10-year compounded rate increase is approximately 37 which Falls within the bounds of the inflation rate forecast and the plan also continues to model a smoothing of the revenue requirement throughout the plan do the budget updates we made to the

33:21 plan we are now modeling a lower rate increase of three and a quarter percent for 2023. next slide please here's a summary of the electric long-term financial plan key metrics that we all that was also included in your board packets in the attachment section of the budget memo the yellow shading indicates when the metrics are negative targets the 10-year rate trajectory is displayed at the bottom of the table and pause for a few moments so you can absorb this we've update updated assumptions to the water utility plan in a similar manner

34:06 to the electric utility all metrics are above Target though the plan models that debt service coverage is strained in the latter half of the plan as a result of the large debt issuance in 2026 to find Willamette water treatment plant we continue to model an increase in the revenue requirement for 2023 of six percent to fund significant infrastructure Investments the initial six years rate increases or the rate trajectory are steeper than the latter four years due to infrastructure work on reservoirs and the Willamette water treatment plant without the treatment plan and Watershed restoration work expected to be funded by grants the rate trajectory is within the bounds of inflationary allowable

34:51 forecast furthermore recent market comparator analysis has indicated we have a large degree of Market Headroom among our competitors so we will review more in detail in November and here is the summary of the water long-term financial plan key metrics and again the yellow shading indicates that the metrics are nearing targets and your trajectory is displayed at the bottom it's here you can absorb this slide right and now Aaron will provide an overview of drafts 2023 and prior year budgets

35:36 apply please thank you Alicia good evening Commissioners again Aaron Ballmer physical services supervisor for the record and we're shifting from the 10-year long-term financial plan and focusing on the upcoming Year's budgets so operationally supply chain challenges persist and the 2022 inflationary environment has been caught annual Administration indexes running in the 8 to 12 percent range since the start of the year Federal Reserve is messaging further aggressive rate actions are on the horizon and 2023 budgets assume inflation rates that are more conservative and slightly higher recent Federal Reserved protections for 2023. decreases tied to inflation assumptions

36:22 for Capital and other o m total eight and a half million for the electric utilities so hopefully to be expected 2023 draft budgets are higher than 2022s draft budgets for each utility are 23 percent higher year over year the electric utility draft budget is 74 million dollars more than last year with purchase power expense being the bulk of that and increasing 44 million dollars due to higher budgeted volumes and prices it's important to note this increase in purchase power expense is more than offset by increasing wholesale sales revenue as higher market prices model as

37:07 a net benefit to the electric utility energy market price assumptions have increased from 51. in 2022 80 per megawatt hour due to scarcity which contributes to Market volatility and is represented in the overly simplified supply and demand curve that's in the upper left of the slide the topic of regional resource adequacy means large and is Making Waves within markets but increases are not all inflation and market dynamics 2023 draft budgets include tangible sets toward making good on the Strategic plan Capital plans represented by the photo of Powerhouse rm19 million from 2022 and

37:57 include significant advice to perform relicensing obligations Department substation improvements that enhance our resilient spine efforts on eweb's Enterprise solution implementation that will modernize our Legacy systems and continue to Advanced meter infrastructure deployment that's core to creating operational and consumption flexibility as well as compulsory improvements to maintain and improve system reliability and safety draft budgets for the other o m category are up 10.3 million dollars from 2020 . and also include increases specific to executing the Strategic plan big changes are ahead as noted on the

38:43 slide and draft budgets include Baseline and service level increases related to conservation incentives that can mitigate Peak loads electrification programs in support of decarbonizing building heating and cooling systems as well as the transportation sector and we'll note that for the electrification programs on the transportation sector those are funded by clean fuel credit revenues additional Baseline and service level increases related to engaging Consultants to further inform the integrated resource plan and assist in organizing Market Readiness are included in these draft budgets as well as remediation efforts related to the trail bridge sinkholes

39:29 also of note vegetation management efforts to maintain safety and reliability as well as labor increases to improve and maintain operational performance as mentioned earlier when Alicia was presenting on the long-term Financial plans 2023 draft budgets come with a 3.25 Revenue requirement s switching to the water utility increases in the water draft budget also further the Strategic plan the 2023 draft budget is 14 million dollars higher than 2022 again that's a 23 increase year over year and resiliency and Recovery efforts in

40:15 the McKinsey Watershed are 6.2 million dollars higher than 2022 levels is higher spending anticipates additional funding from Grants to support the Watershed recovery in the other o m category it is four million dollars higher than last year to a due to a four percent shift in shared services allocations and labor increases and that is referenced by the pie chart on the slide and looking to the capital plans for 2023 three million dollars higher and they include enhancing resiliency for base level storage by finishing the East 40th storage project there's a recent photo of that included on the slide

41:06 also included are corresponding transmission Main projects to link the new storage facility to the system as well as we'll begin planning for the volumetric movement also of note for the water utility the eweb Enterprise solution implementation efforts again to modernize our Legacy systems as well as continued Ami deployment core to creating that operational and consumption flexibility and not to be forgotten at any rate either are the compulsory improvements and the capital plan needed to maintain and improve system reliability and safety so 2023 draft budgets for the water utility come to a six percent Revenue

41:51 requirement increase looking into next steps this evening's agenda includes a public hearing and following that staff look forward to receiving further direction from the board this is an iterative process and we'll be back in November with more detail to the draft budgets and as well as the test proposals which will include pass among customer classes as well as any changes that may be directed this evening again November provides additional opportunity for public testimony and more Direction before we will return in December seeking board action on 2023 budgets and prices and so with that I'll turn it back to president Brown thank

42:36 you and procedurally the way this is structured is we have this information with the public hearing weight creating public testimony and then we have the discussion and direction that we want to give them Direction at the next agenda item right after the public hearing sound good so when do we ask questions about the presentation that just happened after the public here that's the way it's set up this was informational um it's just an update they were going to give us an update and then we had public hearing and then we had Direction but if I mean if you want to ask questions we got time I mean you want to do it now you want to do it after after the public hearing public hearing is going to be a gathering gather up I think we have anybody signed up it's also noted on here that's correct and and we're waiting you know if somebody

43:21 shows up at that time and once testified we'll open it back up well I've got questions whatever you want me to ask them sure I have a question about the electric the average so did you say that um Lieber costs were not included in that projection is that true correct I guess I'm just curious I know that we don't know which option we're going to choose but we still have a idea ish of how much it's going to cost theoretically you can cost more or less but is it possible to feed like we just think the middle middle number or range to see what that would

44:06 do to the rates that's one question and then my other question kind of related to that is once we do pick a track how long will it take for us to see some of those costs is it immediate will it take years all right go ahead we have all kinds of people available to talk so I'll give you my answer and then folks can uh tag on as they see when you say see those costs are you talking about having them actually cash out the door or modeled for you cash out the door like when will we start spending significant ly from the project team most of those costs there's a little bit of difference

44:52 as to which alternative most of those costs don't hit until the early part of the 2030s or in the mid part of the 2030s from that standpoint if you were to look at uh funding those when they occur you would typically go out you would you would borrow for those and so you know Deborah and I have talked about late 2020 early 2030s for some of the first borrowing probably not borrow the whole thing but you would start to see the repayment of those occurring in the 2030s so it's it's almost outside of the planning window that we're talking about unless the board decided that they wanted to do something before that time sort of pre-fund some of this work that's a

45:38 little bit of a different discussion and until we really feel like we know the direction then that's probably a premature conversation that's just not with your thoughts Deborah it was and I we have done some we have done some calculation that roughs out the impact based on borrowing and and about one percent if we assume that there's not Headroom in our debt service coverage we'll cover about 20 million dollars of borrowing three questions um the

46:28 the rate stabilization funds 22 million for electric 15 million for uh water where where and how do you see those being spent first question since the clock's going down I'm going to give you all three of my questions and then you can respond the other thing that would be helpful for me when I'm talking to my constituents is when I say A 3.25 increase in in electric and six point six percent increase in water can you give me a dollar amount for an average bill what that would be so that I can say you know okay the average house spill is two hundred and twenty

47:13 dollars a month what how much of an increase is that going to be just like when people go out for a bond or Levy they say it's going to be 40 a year or whatever if I could get that number that would be helpful so people when I say it's going up three point two five percent I can say on average that's this much and then the last one was on the Waterside why why did the shared service go up so much I mean I know I I think I understand what shared services are cleaning the building doing all of that how come there's was such a large increase in shared service for water those are my three questions on their shared services we do an analysis every several years and the indication that we're getting from that analysis

48:02 for equitably spread those costs between utilities so it wasn't a it was the reallocation it's a reallocation between one of the utilities yeah I I understand it just seemed like it you know it's like okay oops you guys here you're paying a lot more water water kind of like a Cosa you're sitting what you're saying because they haven't been paying their fair share and you did an analysis and found out that they needed to pay more yeah that's fair okay so he had three questions yeah the rate stabilization was the third

48:47 most of it uh see 12 million will be going towards paying for Carmen Smith to reduce the amount of borrowing that we have to we're looking to potentially take place in 2023 and then the remainder of the rate stabilization fund about 10 million will take place in 2024. so when you're saying this 22 million are you funding that are you taking that out of rate stable exam we're funding the plant the capital plan we're taking it out of the rate stabilization what will the balance of rate stabilization well the rate stabilization be that Target like five million and similar situation for the water we'll be using it to find two Capital work and it split almost in half and we'll be down to its Target at the end of 2024.

49:34 I do think it's worthwhile to note that if the utilities perform better than budgeted we wouldn't automatically draw that out of the rate stabilization and when we talked about highest and best use of cash that money would be there to reallocate is that the first priority for the highest investors use I mean is there a board policy on the best use of our what I used to call marginal beginning working capital at the end of the year I don't think necessarily that it would be a first priority we would look and see things like our ability to to defer borrowing um evaluate all of our other reserves and ensure that they were appropriate

50:19 and bring a recommendation back to the board about what they leave those funds add to those funds because we had a really strong Year and that will come in soon right okay thank you sorry third question was on uh cost yes what it would look like for an average consumer we will bring that information to you in the November packet that's your trip I have four questions um and the first one's picking up on where you left off uh and I think we've talked about this in a previous meeting so forgive me but can you remind us if there's a downside to pre-funding some of the Lieber work [Music] yeah in order just to reduce that total

51:06 maximum increase in in rates and especially knowing that as Mindy said like we know there's at least a minimum amount that we're going to be can you remind us the downsides of refunding any other um we currently have the capacity to borrow and take advantage of that and spread that out over 30 years so I guess that's more about the advantage of waiting until we have a number and accessing our borrowing ability um Frank is waving in oh I was just going to say the the downside of pre-barrowing is you're sitting on a bunch of cash until you have to use it and we aren't really the best investor relative to our conservative approaches to that if the capacity is there to borrow

51:52 then you either have to look at your your offsetting unattractive borrowing or you're trying to time your borrowing for when you're using it so the downside of sort of pre-collecting that is that you're not going to be using it until you need it so it's you're just sitting on it basically right but if I'm I'm not suggesting that we would borrow money in advance I'm suggesting we would actually raise our rates slightly now in order to create a greater cushion but I think what I'm hearing you saying is that really our borrowing is the best way to pay for this and so pre-funding it wheat is just yeah and again you're taking it away from your customers and you're sitting on it at a very low investment rate because we have to be incredibly conservative statutorily it's better when you look at sort of

52:38 comparing the rates to just fund it when you need it right yeah yeah thank you all right thanks I appreciate that uh question number two um when we look at the the long that 10-year plan and the electric utility in particular the general rate increase is going kind of up and down over the course of years is that something we would smooth out or is there a reason that we have 3.25 percent increase one year and then a point seven five percent and go to the bottom line am I missing that yeah there's that there's a total at the very bottom it comes every other year thank you uh okay and then um mentioned that currently the fact that we're long on power helps us I think we

53:23 all have a sense of that that um and so my question is at what point were we forecast to no longer be long on Power and how are we so as part of the IRP discussion if you look at the timing of the contracts between 2026 and 2028. we will I'll I wouldn't say moving from long we will be repositioned by that so by that time so we would gear that for 2028. now from a financial perspective as a part of looking at that going forward when we get through the IRP we'll have to do some Financial

54:09 modeling to couple with that so it's they aren't Standalone they have to work together but I would say if the answer direct is probably 2028 thank you uh and then and then I didn't make the presentation on continually amazed at how you all distill really complex information and make it digestible for people that are not as smart like me um so thank you again for the presentation um the last question I have is about where you think our greatest Financial exposure is there's you see the whole picture of Deborah and I'm just curious like where are the pieces that you're looking at and the greatest concern I assume they're probably all are already on our radar but if they're not

54:54 and they're on your radar I continue to watch inflation the FED action and supply chain disruptions that started with covid and continue with uh with a war and so those are really top of mind for me we also have some very large Investments that we need to make no surprises and Frank wants to add one of his toxic because it's not a surprise either I mean we have a whole risk management committee that is looking at the risks associated the power markets for example on the electric side and what kind of reserves we need to have to mitigate the fluctuations that can occur

55:39 if if we get into scarcity situations or capacity situations so we have a whole system set up to look at that along with just you know the Investments versus inflation and some of these other things and financial teams looking at those really constantly on the water side I think we're in a really good position to to not think about just the next decade but what does this look like in the long term we're trying to secure any any risks around water rights for example going forward enhancing our water rights water is becoming scarce throughout the west and so we could expect that there would be some migration into this area so what does growth look like from a

56:25 risk perspective and then on the water side we have some large Investments like like a second like a second drinking water source and on the electric side we've heard it there's I think Tyler referred to as the lump in the snake where we have all of this investment in the in the 60s and 70s and if you think about the age of that equipment now it is all aging as one big lump and so we're looking at 10 to 20 years of probably larger than typical investments in infrastructure on the and that's that's why you're seeing some of this that we're projecting out and you say oh my gosh it's you know three four percent rate increases every year which is consistent with our Direction around inflation but we're investing pretty heavily to

57:11 try to handle those two situations well thank you Sonia two questions so we're voting on Liebert December and we're voting in the budget in December which means that the budget doesn't have laburg as a part of that is that because labor and real costs don't really come into effect in 2023 or how are we going to adjust the 2023 budget based on decision that so those significant costs we're expecting in late in the late 2020s and early 2030s we do have two million dollars for emergent issues on leiburg

57:57 so the money that that we anticipate that we would have to spend is included in this budget in the long term I thought I heard earlier she said for the long-term Financial plans as you looked at that it does not have large spent on Weaver in it but for the upcoming budget it has what we anticipated for 2020. and I would I would add commissioner Carlson the long-term financial plan on the electric side come next year when you see it in July will look dramatically different uh Josh gonna say that I'll leave it at that yeah okay um so I know that we we always divided out

58:43 the electric and the water side is that how the rating agencies look at us or do they look at they look at it just two completely separate okay I was hoping that maybe there was some overlay that we could do when some of those challenged metrics that helped at all but if it doesn't okay I appreciate the thought but they are created as separate utilities okay all right good those are my two things I have two quick questions I thought what Sony was talking about on this budget we're talking about right now tonight we just passed a an amendment for a legal services for another seven million dollars and we were told that that was for Freeburg and those things so that's in this budget that seven million bucks we passed this evening

59:29 So Lisa for the Liebert cost the one that was in the conception it was our Incorporated and a piece of those were also um Quality Farm fire legal which is awesome okay but that that seven million is in this budget so if we look at the budget from 2021 to 2022 we look at that increase I can't remember what that number was we just increased seven million dollars in spending where's that much for five years that was a five year the there's three more years term on that contract or is it five at um put on my glasses The Five-Year contract it was originally a five-year contract so it's in the money that we will spend in 2023 is incorporated into the budget

1:00:19 okay that's fine and the second one just can you go back that slide and showed the electric I think it was 14 million for Debt Service you had you had the uh yeah the difference between last year and this year and you had that comparison uh it was Debt Service of 17 million on the electric how much debt is that 17 million in uh Debt Service serve that's a bunch of electric debt

1:01:07 17 million to serve how many million and we've got a couple hundred million coming up it gives me an idea because so on the couple hundred million it's about 11 for every 20 million is our 12 percent how much how much money I mean if that 17 million is serving how much debt um almost there I don't know he's got the numbers right there just to help me okay you can give it to me later so that's all I have so we're done with that then I'm going to do public hearing anybody sign up to testify but I know technically if you have a break but you

1:01:53 guys want to roll you know we got one more agenda item and that's the following agenda item list directions HDR yeah no now we now after the break no what if we're going to take you guys want a break keep going okay we're gonna go so um the next is item number 11. now we give you directions so I'll open it up to the board to anybody want to give them uh Direction on where to go uh what from what you've seen I mean we heard that in July we'll have a better idea for the long-term financials and what that will look like so I guess my direction would be nice to see that but I'm willing to wait until

1:02:39 July when we have from her breast I was I would say that part of the reason that it's fine for July and the long-term financial plan is when you look at the outer the outer period of that 10 years is when you're starting to see some of these substantial costs come in there's really no impact on any of the decision around leeburg for 2023 so from a budgetary standpoint it really it inconsequential so well we need medication before that presentation that you want you'll you'll get a little bit of Education in both November and December as we talk about labor but yeah we can arrange for

1:03:24 whatever therapy you need Jeremy yeah so I I I feel comfortable with you guys moving forward with these numbers that you have here um I think 2023 is is kind of a straightforward this is where we were in 2022 these are our our stressors in 2023 um the one-year budget is different than the long term the long term one is is going to be the the tough nut to to crack I do I mean it is a significant increase you know each one of those was was big I mean 327 to 400 million on the electric side 70 million dollar increase just on the electric side is big and it's that

1:04:11 explained but I'm hoping that that's an abnormality rather than the norm you know I mean obviously we're going to have a big one because of the of the Liebert project but the other one so probably not commissioner but then the reason I say that is part of the big reason for the Gen this is only the expense side so the revenue side associated with Wholesale Electric sales okay goes up as well so what you're only seeing half of that equation and we will continue to be long for another several years and if the market remains strong or get stronger you will see bumps on the expense side that are

1:04:57 pretty substantial but those are offset by Revenue so that's that's why it's you're only seeing that seeing half of that equation um so the abnormality of that will depend a little bit on the strength of the markets so when do I see the other half of the equation when the budget comes out yeah or when it's reconciled at the end of I mean you don't know what you sold it for until no we have forecasts and those are included in the budget so you'll see the revenue side of that when we bring back the budget okay all right it wasn't that favorable next year okay well anyways I I feel that the the numbers that you gave us

1:05:43 here are are good numbers to build the budget off of I guess that's the direction that you're asking for us from today I won't be at the next meeting so I may need more at the November meeting when the budget is presented I'll be able to see it and maybe I can schedule some time after I get back from my vacation to sit down and answer questions ask questions before I have to make the motivation I wanted to say that I appreciate the work that you've done to the more that we can do that to help our customers

1:06:30 the places not in any direction no I just reiterate yeah the smoothing is is like to thank you all too firstly because you've taken you know you're one of several groups that can come up here and take a topic that I used to just let go in one ear and out the other but actually I understand it and I appreciate it a much more than I have in the past so thank you very much for you know synthesizing a very complex thing into something that a lay person can understand I really really appreciate that I don't really appreciate 70 over 10 years for water that's not your fault you're just you know don't shoot the messenger so I won't uh but uh I thank you and I you've got given me everything I need so without anything else then that will conclude this agenda item and I want to

1:07:15 thank you all uh just remember raise everybody's rates but ours and I [Music] is here this evening and there are several Folks at home who get a lot of effort into this yeah um presentation and the materials that's well I know you could just give us an Excel spreadsheet and say here cheers but you do it in a way that that not only to us but the listening audience that makes it presentable because this this is like I say a commodity that people don't have a choice on and we're raising it and uh and we've got to make sure that we do it properly and I thank you all for so

1:08:02 good just go from there so thank you very much and your number is uh 240. 240 minutes so it's 17 million a year in Serbia service to 240 so I do the math that's a pretty big yeah so we have to serve that on 200 million at IRA important [Music] it's a big number all right well thank you very much so the next is correspondence to William Jones right there were four pieces of Correspondence in your packet this month they were all informational items

1:08:47 one on damp safety one on the headquarters transition there was an update on the Willamette Water Treatment Plant where that process is and then there was also one on the Lieber Canal TBL which showed some relative to um DBL issues and the social economic Environmental tomorrow I will get the board a tool that you can do some some of your own waiting of those and provide a little come with some instructions that we would like to get your feedback on to be able to go through the various associated with that decision

1:09:33 those were all informational items if you have any questions or any of those rating system for each of those I'm just curious maybe in the next update about tonight um each of those had different ratings and I'm just curious how they got to the plus one the minus one well each of those different numbers that seems like it could be very effective to get that I'm just curious yeah those those were relative and within each category we tried to explain why this one but those were very specific first week one and

1:10:19 you can see the different categories together [Music] that you get to actually play around with well this this particular category is more important to me than that one and you can wait for differences and see how your decision-making process might be altered by your own priorities and that's that's what we're going to try to understand so that when we come together for the meeting on October 25th we can supply the board a little bit of information around this is where you tend to to think alike this is where you tend to have some differences of opinion and so the board can can have a productive discussion really Roundtable it's your discussion but we can supply a little bit of information as to what kind of feedback we've got so far

1:11:08 another piece of the puzzle tomorrow thanks for other questions about the future agendas so we have a placeholder for an October 18th work session that was that was next on my list um I'm going to suggest that we cancel the October 18th you know hold and lessened somebody for some reason would like to have another meeting we would like to stick with the meeting on the 25th because we have publicized that people to listen in um but it gets it gets you out of three meetings that was a placeholder primarily if we were dealing with some headquarters evaluations we could be held that so um I recommend I'm Mr

1:11:53 President that we canceled the October 18th work session and if you'll notice the calendar now starts to bleed in quite significantly into 2023 and we'll start to discuss some of the goals over the next few months um so I'm going to jump in real quick on correspondence I read the damn safety report should we be concerned about all the sinkholes and Smith from Carmen and uh and and the drilling that we're doing on won't be real about the economics in a nutshell uh it looks like you know if you look at you know Carbon diversion sinkholes uh

1:12:44 the drilling that you guys were doing in January um you may have to lower the level I mean things here that given the magnitude of what Walter Liebert is we have the sinkholes and two of our reservoirs we've got Walter Bill we're doing testing on that um once I mean I'll call on Lisa she's out there somewhere should How concerned should this board be if I mean Lieber is huge but if we're just spending a couple hundred million or 150 million on Carmen and we got sinkholes and two of the three reservoirs um is that something that this board should be concerned about a fair question uh the singles and

1:13:30 Carmen diversion Reservoir have been there for a number of years we think those are relatively easy to remediate the sinkholes in trail bridge Reservoir were still ongoing in doing our investigation it will be probably another year before we have the root cause of those sinkholes and then can move on to remediation efforts there is some certainly some risk of the trail bridge sinkholes particularly as it relates to the schedule of our Carmen license deployment projects in particular fish passage that said we don't have enough information at this time to to say what the fix will be for those sinkholes so I wouldn't want to speculate but we'll be getting information to you as quickly as we can with respect to Walterville we have had

1:14:16 a couple of things there that we're looking at but I want to I'm not sure we're entirely clear on our memo about this Walterville is a different situation than leibert Walterville is not classified as high Hazard along the entire project length and the issues that we're concerned about right now are in the forebay and so they are we presume with with good um backing from experts that the those will be much easier to fix if they do become a problem than the what we're experiencing with Liebert at this time so again there's uncertainty associated with all of those things and our dam safety team is actively working on trying to figure out what the issues are and how we solve them but I don't think we're looking at another Liebert situation with

1:15:01 Walterville if that's one of your big concerns in terms of seismic and Canal no thank you Lisa I was just reading this although unlikely if it cannot be a situation cannot be resolved regarding lowering the canal to reduce sea breach or entirely ceasing generation that that's what concerned me about Walterville and that in that statement although you did say it's unlikely but it's still a possibility on his um the Dark Cloud I'm sorry but I'm reading all these different things and we're spending all this money on on Carmen I just hate to spend another 150 million bucks and have somebody say the sink holds a challenge or whatever but we'll just have to wait

1:15:47 and see so anything else on correspondence Estonia I am curious kind of off the the Walterville side you know last month we talked about how the license is for both reberg and Walterville has there been any more thoughts on if we make one decision and one it's how it impacts the other and in terms of if we did re-licensed can we re-licensed is it going to create some key covenants that we have is probably Mr Carlson probably a better discussion to dive into what we're talking about this on the on the 25th okay I think

1:16:34 staff will be able we'd like to talk more about that and if there's any other things that um any other entities that have skin in the game on this and maybe you can help or you know I don't know but it would be nice to know if there's any other help that's there those Major Impact those are the two okay right next is agendas um I talked about the one scheduling issue to cancel October 18th work session and now I'm just we're starting to get into 2023 already so Matt you had a question on the agenda well if you're covering one of our meetings isn't going to cut our wages to

1:17:19 yeah um a couple questions on agendas um uh just before or our last meeting was just before the fire blew up in Oak Ridge and we did a public service Public Safety power shut off right in in order to reduce the risk up there which by all characters seem to have worked nothing happened I mean except that the power went out for a bunch of people I would be interested in some um feedback about the Lessons Learned I suspect that those Public Safety power shutoffs PSPs will become something that we're dealing with more in the future and curious if there are any policy

1:18:04 issues that we need to wrestle there and almost curious just kind of logistically what what you all are learning from having done that so um it was just an information memo to do is your feedback that'd be great um and I know we it looks like we have an issue in December around incentivizing underground and generators and maybe that's needed is that really the December item on potential program to incentive underground at generators for customers in high-risk areas I assume that's high wow am I looking at yeah oh I'm sorry that may be in a copy over I will take a look yeah I believe that came from the Wildfire mitigation work session we were

1:18:51 talking about some potential programs for customers similar to generators and whatnot I think the notion came up that perhaps there would be something there and Janine Parisi was going to get back to the board with some ideas for consideration yeah so related so maybe there's an option to combine those um and then my other question is about um hydrogen I know we're doing a pilot project with Northwest Natural and hydrogen and I'm just curious to hear about that I'd love to have if we could carve out 20 minutes just for a short presentation and some questions around that um that would be useful to me I don't know if the rest of the board is interested in that I know we have a January January item where we we're looking at the climate guidebook and

1:19:36 that might be an appropriate place to plant that next to um and learn about that there's time to prepare for it other board members interested in two three yeah we got three degrees we had none so we're good thank you okay anything else just one comment so it does seem like we tend to be ahead which I don't mind obviously on the agenda but the public hearing um for the next two meetings we're raising we're looking at raising rates which we are um I don't know if we'll be ahead but is there any way to maybe indicate on the agenda itself that these times may vary and that you know maybe it would be good for you to be here early in case we're ahead on the

1:20:23 agenda because you know we would have just done the we wouldn't even be at the place now we're doing the public hearing I mean we could go ahead and add to that because I was going to make a comment at wrap up about um when we do public comments and we we're so fast at the beginning of our meeting that we actually get to public comment before it's public comment time so like tonight we had somebody who look late but she actually came before into the clock before the public comment was supposed to start so maybe if we do have some kind of disclaimer on our um our agenda that would just be helpful I don't know that anybody's complained but I have thought about this before that we're often ahead which is great for us actually you know we try and keep track

1:21:08 of that I mean she came in handed out and left and she I mean I think will told her that she could if she wanted to she could I mean that's been a challenge for as long as I've been here you can't run it exactly you can sit there and do that it's going to happen no matter what that's why if we just have something on there yeah time subject to to change so if you want to have public comments you might want to show up at the beginning of the meeting just just something like that because if somebody doesn't know it's their first time coming in they late we're still accommodated I mean well I know at the at the county so it's like okay we know we're going to be in the meeting at 6 30. so you say

1:21:53 the boxer thing is time served at 6 30 and if we're in the middle of an agenda item postpone it need to time cert I mean that might be something I don't know I know that that's one of the things County does usually it's at the beginning of a meeting or the exactly or the city puts it all the way at the very beginning of the meeting in that way there's not any movement I don't know if that's something we can contemplate ours is always at the very beginning of the meeting well but public hearings not necessarily like tonight well public hearing on the rates you know like that's that's always it's never been exactly timed and what you do is you just wait until seven o'clock and you wait and you say is anybody here if there's nobody here you just need to move point I I think that we can put on our agendas

1:22:40 that uh you know it's it's you will be honored at that time uh and but you if you wanna get there really that's okay too because it's always running early it's never running late and Brad I know that when we post post the agendas we do say there is a disclaimer that I think what seems like we're trying to do is to provide some some degree of certainty or accommodation one of those two and you know all work with Ann and Holly to see if there's ways that we can phrase that a little bit differently just to make sure that people are aware that there's well and it's also I think people running the

1:23:26 meeting it kind of keep get used to who's here and you see somebody come in you know an unfamiliar face you don't think it's stopped or anything just take the executive privilege and say are you here to testify or whatever and do it because I'd rather bring protocol and do that than have somebody come here that wanted to be heard and has not heard so those are really good points you've made and we'll make the adjustment thank you John so I guess I just have a question you know how does an agenda item make it into an actual agenda item as opposed to a correspondence that we get

1:24:12 because you know I go through and I read all these things and then I'm I'm coming to the meeting and there have been several times where I've read into the the correspondence and thought Oh okay you know I've got the questions on this and that and then it's like oh that's just that was just stuff for you to read and then ask questions I'm just curious as to how how that determination is made whether or not it makes it to an agenda item or just something read and if you got a question because some of these things are like you know what commissioner Brown brought up some things in one of the correspondence but to me some of them are a little bit deeper than just let me pick something out with five minutes to go I'm just curious as to how that determination is

1:24:57 made well I I'd start by End by stating that I guess I've always felt like correspondence is an opportunity to discuss as well so it's it's not necessarily something where we would have planned a presentation and gone through a particular policy item or action or or guidance for but it is provided with the intent that Commissioners can provide feedback or or discuss it I think it's almost historical folklore that we've gotten to the end of the meeting oh it's a correspondence item and we sort of just moved through it quickly that is something that that I think we can change if we want to and tonight was a good example these These are provided

1:25:44 for information but also for feedback and I you know I've always felt like that's that's maybe a missed opportunity that we just sort of skip through them but but usually they're pretty meaty and there's things that we wouldn't enjoy questions or feedback on usually when it makes it to an agenda item it is either feeding some sort of direct policy guidance or some action that's that's typically what the difference is now sometimes there's informational items we do have informational items where the board wants to just openly discuss something and that's that's available too so it's not an exact science people correspondence is more information with the opportunity whereas

1:26:31 an agenda item is really a little more specifically geared toward guidance or action and again I'm just trying to get my feet and the same thing goes to consent calendar right you know there were things in the cassette calendar it's like do I want to pull that to ask a specific question or you know or do I do that offline type of thing so I'm just trying to get my feet and I'm one of the ones that the exhale and does the wonky stuff but I don't want to I don't wanna you know bring all the all of you along you know for another hour in a meeting on Milwaukee stuff so I'm just trying to get my bearings as to what is appropriate and what is is the way things go I think you want you know maybe a suggestion is that when you

1:27:16 get your board packet we got them like Friday and we had until Thursday you go through it and if you see something like if I really had to dig into the damn safety thing which may happen in the future is I just sent an email to everybody saying hey this thing's got some meat to it and I want to add some questions and and let your general manager know ask your questions there and if it doesn't it's not satisfied all I got to do is get three head nods or whoever's sitting in the seat get three head dots in its agenda item it's an agenda item and so we can move it up that way it's just it's a matter of communicating and understanding and don't be shy I mean because if you if you're going to extend our meeting an hour I'll I will have to gave up 55 minutes of spot in about an hour but seriously uh you know I'd

1:28:02 rather spend the time and get it right and we you've got questions or valid questions we all have questions so go ahead just ask it ask it and if you want it on the agenda get three people to shake your head and we'll get it there okay thank you I really like using the pre-median questions there's a record of of those questions and those are always good sometimes to capture it a little bit more formally but I would also say you know as as staff sometimes we struggle also with how much information do we provide you know from a detailed perspective more detail less detail I mean there's

1:28:49 that's a constant thing that we evaluate and so sometimes if we go through what you just described where oh we have this correspondence that was an example in this one where I cut back a lot of the detail on one of those correspondence because I I felt like it needed to be in a level where the board could focus on it you know you're not going to read 12 pages of something you might read you know one page of something that's very succinct for you but that may not you know if there's more questions that are starting to come up then we might start go we might start pulling more detail back into it so it's a constant process for staff as well okay and one of my one of my challenges is just the is my work my work schedule

1:29:36 right so if I get if I get a board packet on Thursday or Friday and the meeting's on Tuesday excuse me but my busiest days are Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday right that's that's when my work week is so to be able to to get that sometimes is challenging for me and I'm not saying we need to change procedures for it but that may be why I can't get to it I'm reading the packet you know but typing out other questions you know when you're feeding 250 people is is is challenging at some point thank you though I got a solution we'll just go help dinner at your place Mondays every Monday Perfect all right other questions or comments for the

1:30:22 general manager correspondence Lisa had typed a comment about doing an annual van state what's that I just want to make sure that was seen we said something about the annual TM safety review in the comments on the commissary Lisa says we plan to do a damn safety agenda item annually our chief damage is the engineer is why we did according to finance this year thank you I think that's part of our requirement in the dam safety program I don't think I know it is sorry okay anything else for the good of the order if not thank you