EWEB Board of Commissioners — February 21, 2023

0:03 his appearance hello everyone thank you for uh joining us today uh to the integrative resource plan at the Town Hall that Webb is hosting we're really excited to have you all here uh to present some information and have some conversations I know there's some great dialogue happening over here we'll have a chance for some of that later um for the agenda for tonight or basically we have a couple presentations and then chance for some q a as well and then also more more dialogue and one thing I do want to point out right now is that over here at the table we've got some comment cards if you want to submit your comment uh you know we'll see that anytime we have some type of cards here you can also do that online at uweb.org IRP but pretend tonight we're going to start with our general manager Frank Lawson who's going to talk for a little

0:49 bit about some of our initial results that we've got from the IRP and then we have a uh our other staff members who are going to talk about different programs that we have here at eweb programs to help electrified transportation and improve Energy Efficiency and homes and things like that so each of them will talk for a few minutes and in between those two groups of presentations we're gonna have some q a so some chance for some dialogue here in the brain and also we do have folks tuning in on the live streams we'll make sure that if there are any questions on the live stream we're going to get this handled during the Q a at that point but yeah thank you again for for coming here and I'll pass it off to our general manager Frank Lawson well thank you Aaron thanks everybody appreciate the attendance this evening

1:35 both here as well as out in the virtual world seems like it's part of any meeting anymore you never know who's looking at you who's listening in um I wanted to I wanted to just I those of you who have heard me speak before the thing that I really do appreciate about eweb and about this community is we are a community-owned utility I always start with that reminder um the assets are owned by the citizens of Eugene and we are governed by a five-member board you can see some of the consumption numbers that is is a bit staggering to people at times when you think about we deliver 2.4 billion

2:22 kilowatt hours of electricity every year and 8.2 billion gallons of drinking water during a peak day in the summer of drinking water we deliver over 55 million gallons in one day all of those assets which accumulate about 1.3 billion dollars are owned by you and so you're billionaires in some ways so we are governed uh via a board that's publicly elected there are three members here this evening our president son Carlson as well as John Brown and Mindy schlossberg uh are here this evening thank you and Matt McRae May attend later virtually depending this schedule

3:11 foreign this evening about the integrated resource plan and I almost want to make a correction right off the top with the very first slide I really don't want us to consider this an integrated resource plan this is really about planning so this is about multiple iterations of something when you say a plan it sounds very final and so there's going to be multiple iterations of this as we go forward and so please think of this as a step when we get through this step we'll take another step and so I want to want to really emphasize that we'll talk a little bit about the goals of how this process is going to work some of the inputs and considerations that we've

3:56 taken into account some that we will take into account in addition to those talk a little bit about the reference case our best guess in some of the future what the future looks like and then how that brought us some initial results and then we'll talk a lot about next steps as well as a lot some time for questions and answers the greater resource plant or the process of planning that is to really combine three different things as a utility we have to be able to look at resources these are the the things that are generating electricity we have to look at all of our consumption or what we call load both of those things vary

4:43 widely and we have to take a look and consider assumptions about the future so we really have to divide this into those three General categories resources consumption and other criteria there's a lot of things that vary within those in fact the modeling that we do has over 1 million variables to it and all of those areas are dramatically changing as we look forward they're becoming more Dynamic somewhat turbulent if you want to use use that and electricity for the most part setting batteries and storage aside a little bit which are important in how we deliver it

5:30 but electricity is still one of those very few things that you have to produce and consume simultaneously and so now there's storage and we'll talk a little bit about where that fits but in general that's the case that's the physics of it the process involved really six steps we started off with forecasting our energy needs we then looked at the characteristics of the different options for um generating resources we put in some constraints some of this constraints for example as the board has set forth some carbon emissions restrictions or goals that they want us to achieve we developed a reference case in a reference case I don't know that

6:16 the modelers will agree with me but the reference case is when the fund starts because now we can go into different scenarios and iterations because people have questions what if Hydro isn't as productive as the climate changes well that's going to be an iteration that we have to look at and so we developed a reference case really just to test and say okay here's a Baseline and then when we charge start changing things and we get into the what ifs the iterations and then combined iterations of scenarios how does that change the results are there certain things that we should do no matter what the future holds are there certain things that might look really good in one future and not so good in another which means it's going

7:02 to be riskier and so in this process we're looking out 20 25 years the action plans typically come back to the next year or two or three so this is a cycle it's a rig it's almost like a long-term financial plan but you're looking at a number of years but you have to bring it back to this year's budget for example and this is the same way with resources this is kind of where we are in that process some of you have seen this before we've been through some of the initial assumptions we've tried to characterize different resources we've analyzed our consumption patterns and the variability there as well as looking at some different options for

7:47 forecasting we're now kind of saying oh this is kind of what it looks like right now because we want to run more sensitivities the Outreach to the community is important because we want to make sure that we're taking into consideration what the public is interested in and some of the things that you see some of the things are board sees as we work through the process and then in June yes 2023 IRP report an action plan that's not one plan that's going to be done and we're going to leave it we're going to actually have a plan is probably going to identify some things that we need to work on right away but then we're going to launch in to the next IRP and the reason there's one year

8:32 right after the other is there's some major changes going on with the Bonneville power Administration and our relationship with them it's going to be a whole new contract that is being negotiated that will because our present contract ends in 2028 and so we're going to have to launch right in to test whether that makes sense for us or what products and services Bonneville is a really interesting organization you think oh we buy powerful wonderful that should be great right we have I think 50 different contracts with Bonneville so it's a really complicated relationship and there's all always all kinds of product options so which of the product options best fits with our portfolio will be

9:18 part of the 2024 hierarchy irpv planning so consumption not very consistent so the big black line across the the middle of the screen if that's just our average annual consumption as you can see when you plot the last 10 or 11 years nothing is every ever average um sometimes we equate this is the having the challenge of trying to fly through the mountains at average altitude how well is that going to work for you we have to be able to supply you with electricity 24 hours a day seven days a week 365 days a year next month next year 10 years from now

10:06 30 years from now and so but you have to look at all of these times and you can see this is January through December across the bottom you can see January is pretty high on average the the blue is kind of within two standard deviations of what we would typically see if so better press the right button here which one of these is the this is technical oops oh are you looking for the um yeah the pointer the pointer is this one okay okay this is a highly technical process so you can see that you know this is kind

10:52 of or you know you might typically find your daily averages you know January is pretty high February is high December site that's what we call a winter peaking organization our Peak loads tend to be in the winter when it's cold outside not as much in the summer although when we talk about forecasting we'll think about forecasting the future which might be different than the past but you also see some excursions these are these are Peak situations where we don't have the option of saying okay well it's going to be peaky so we're not going to supply you for this particular day because it it outstripped our resources so we have to plan for all of these highs and lows and really understand the fact that it's seasonal it's daily it's hourly in fact

11:38 scheduling electricity is now getting down to the five minute interval so you can imagine almost like a stock exchange everybody bidding every five minutes and resetting so it's really becoming a lot more dynamic also you know you can see throughout this not only do you see seasonal daily but you also see through the course of a day a single day that typically that's you know this is a winter pattern uh where you would eight to nine seven eight nine o'clock in the morning you have a peak demand you get a little bit of peak demand when people come home in the evening in the summer it's a little bit a little bit different as the as the day

12:24 heats up and people start air conditioning you start to see a load in this kind of pattern here where it tends to peak in the middle to late afternoon and then starts to fall off both of these rules are indicated that that when we talk about consumption we are not talking about one flat load we have to deal with this 24 7 365 every minute of every day and this minute will be different than the last minute we also when you do take a step back and you kind of start to say well what are the forecasts going forward you do have to say Okay well you look at the past but there's going to be a number of conditions that drive changes into the future some of those being like

13:09 electrification some of those being additional air conditioning loads we'll probably see some increase in our summer Peak because summer temperatures will tend to rise we'll probably see a slight decrease in our winter Peak as temperatures rise so these are some of the formal fasting that we see going forward and we do see uh planned load growth for this area and I think most of the people would agree that there's a number of indications of that so they were having to plan for different degrees of growth going forward and that's that's where when we start looking at scenarios you can't just look at one scenario you're going to have to determine what if Globe load growth is

13:54 more accelerated or less accelerated than what we originally put into the the base case and those are things we'll study we also now shift to the resource side because now we have to synchronize the resources with the with the loads we always start with okay where are we this is kind of on an average yearly basis you can see it's kind of a combination of different things pretty Hydro dominant I think most utilities I'll say most Public Utilities in the Northwest are Hydro dominant some of the investor owned utilities you see a lot heavier concentration of gas and coal in their systems this is similar in most cases in fact that's you see in the

14:40 state of Oregon where 21 is natural gas 25 is coal at only 43 is hydro ours is much more hydrocentric at this point but that's something we will also have to test going forward whether that will continue and what the risks and benefits are of that if you looked at our contracts and you said okay if you go forward and we let our contracts expire what happens if you remember that eweb's Peak was somewhere in this this sort of range uh we're we're able to meet Peak right now but as contracts expire and this is the big one with Bonneville by the way so don't think that everything's going to

15:25 fall off the map in 2028 that's part of a renegotiation that we have to model but if we didn't do any contracts you can see our portfolio would would gradually decline over them well it's not gradual that's pretty pretty abrupt decline over the next several years which which actually helps us answer the question where are we doing this now um the last full IRP integrated resource plan that eweb did was in 2011. they you know we've done updates every year so we check and see if the assumptions are right but why the long time well because really our resource base and our load was pretty stable and so we did regular checkups but at this point

16:10 we need to get into a much more robust planning cycle when it comes to looking at the alignment between supply and demand this is just a representation I know that people can kind of get hung up a little bit on the numbers but we we did model and give the model roughly 150 different resources to pick from and so what it does is it goes through the criteria and then it'll pick a leased cost solution based on all the criteria being met whether that's dhg emissions or location transmission its ability to not just the cost of average energy but how much does it cost in a

16:57 peaking situation which is if you remember the load we we have to supply electricity independent of whether it's average we have to fly over the mountains in other words when we're and we're in the airplane there's also different levels of of risk there's there's a whole bunch that's a technical term as well there's a whole bunch of different characteristics for each of the different resources this this is just a sampling and you can kind of see we we get into everything from Montana wind to Gorge wind those are different by the way they perform differently they do better or worse at different times of the day in different times of the year and so we have multiple wind options including offshore wind as an example we

17:44 have all different levels of Energy Efficiency this is called bin one you might call Bin one as the low hanging fruit stuff that we should be able to do fairly easily but we have multiple different cost levels of of bins to see when and how it selects Energy Efficiency same with demand response batteries there's lots of different Technologies there's thermal resources BPA we just modeled BPA as it is today yeah well that's why we have to do it again it won't be just like it is today but we also want to consider that going forward for my base case perspective just just to have a comparison to to be able to make under other conditions some of the constraints that we're

18:29 looking at um all kinds of you know cost demands lease costs we recognize that being affordable is one of our core values safe reliable affordable environmental art and then Community are the really the big five and so all of those have to be accomplished I do describe uwave as living in the land of hand so in other words we have to be safe and reliable and affordable and environmental and Community we can't be one or the other so we have to be all of those and so that's part of the balance that we have to make we are assuming electrification load growth

19:14 um this is a moderate level of load growth from electrification we'll do some more and I'll talk about some sensitivities later some Transit we're assuming transmission is available that's also a big assumption across the the West BPA similar to the average winter in other words we still see ourselves as a winter peaking utility for the planning window here which is a couple of decades we still see that as being the condition that we're in and then 95 roughly carbon free I was asked the other day well you're at 90 roughly now 95 that's no big deal is it well if you think about we're cutting it in half so if you looked at this more

20:00 as a carbon intensity number which is what we're probably going to move to it's a lot more specific because that other five percent could be bad or it could be really bad you don't you don't know what's not in the 95 percent limit so but we're starting with that as a constraint and so where did where did it land so we we put all these things together we put it in the meat grinder I I did what else to put here as an analogy but we put all these things in and we crank it and I think some of you heard me talk at the City Club about this process um when I asked one of the analysts so can you run something for me I was in kind of the what-if mode and they said yeah we can get to it by Tuesday and I

20:47 think this was a Friday Thursday or Friday and I thought oh they just had other things to do and you know who am I they're doing their other things you know so go go for it it takes actually three days to run the model once you put it in there the million variables it takes three days to crank out the results and so um this this is a really fast moving big meat grinder to to generate some results but this is this is what we did we put all those things together and we turned the crank and we we got some results the results again are really they aren't what we want the utility to be they aren't necessarily something where we've gone in and

21:32 manipulated variables to get the outcome that we want I think that's something that we're being really careful about we're trying to look and understand how conditions change what is and how is that going to change the result what things are really robust no matter what future we're dealing with and what things are more risky so um the real that's why I say the real fun is is now beginning where we have a base case and now we can get into the what-ifs and so it's not people can kind of look at this and go well I don't want that because it has a little bit of nuclear in it and that's always a popular topic so oh wait a minute it has nuclear why is that well this is this is a benchmark and it's selecting that for some reasons

22:18 it is a few just real high level um conclusions BPA is still looks like it's pretty good option um it's the federal government they have a really good mix between their price for Energy and their price to help with peaking situations and so that Foundation of Bonneville and the hydro base that they have is is a good foundation and that probably will hold true under all of the Futures it'll just depend on which products and services we select from them and that's that's important part of the next steps we are going to have to add some resources if you look at the projected load and then you look at the resource base we are going to need to add some

23:04 resources um in the years ahead what those resources what the model selected in the base case was a series of combination of batteries and wind demand response and if you don't know what demand response is that's basically customers where we would say can you curtail or can you change your consumptions habits to fill in and reduce your load so that a resource that might not meet that need would meet that need so you have to look at resources both on the consumption side things like Energy Efficiency and demand response and also the generation side so I picked a number of different combinations conservation as well as it did small

23:49 modular reactor that's what SMR stands for advanced nuclear is another term that sometimes you hear in the industry and you can see in the base case it's selected it out in 2042. um so uh again this is the base case we went through put in a whole bunch of assumptions pranked it for three days million variables later this is what it said we needed in addition to what we have now with Bonneville in that process sometimes you go why why did it select wind over solar for example in our case we can look here and say it's not so much about solar itself it's when does the solar produce versus

24:36 when do we as a community need it you start to see if you look at the load shape and dashed here and you look at we into production this is seasonal so these are months so you can see there's a seasonal alignment between wind production this was specifically was it Wyoming wind solar production in this case it was utility scale solar was was kind of misaligned there so it's not just this is not a judgment on solar this is when we looked at it from utility perspective there was better alignment between wind and low than there was solar and load

25:22 it also recognized and selected actually quite a few batteries probably more batteries than I might have expected one of the reasons um and so the batteries really become valuable when you looked at the shape of the Peaks and the fact that that if you're peaking at four in the afternoon sometimes you need to spread that out so there's some value to batteries from a daily perspective but also batteries have one Advantage which is they store so you can charge them and you can also discharge them at different times so you could be charging your battery at a time when there's lots of energy on the market which means it's probably relatively cheap and then you can

26:07 discharge it when at those peak times to mitigate your Peak so that helps the utility but it also prevents and and really keeps the utility from having to spend money on very expensive utility energy which happens at the peak times some of those ups and downs and Peaks that I showed you earlier that's what prices do as well so when it's six o'clock in the evening on a winter night it's very expensive compared to what you might find in the afternoon when there's or at three in the morning when there's a different supply and demand so the prices vary as much as the supply we're also you know why is demand

26:54 response and conservation those tend to be things that are quite affordable when you look at the kilowatts or the price per kilowatt hours or kilowatt hour save they also have no transmission risk since most of that work is about all that's done here and also it's carbon free so the most carbon free energy ever is that the energy not used so there is benefits to both demand response which is Shifting loads around at different times and conservation which is reducing the demand overall and and we will be checking one of the action items that will likely come out of this is we'll have to do some more specific assessments of building stock

27:39 for example in this area and different programs relative to the the mix between renters and um and owners and so sometimes those conversations come up that's why we had multiple levels we want to be able to understand how much of an investment is made at different levels of conservation sometimes conservation is very affordable and sometimes it's actually more affordable to build the resource as opposed to spending on the back end those are the it's not a vote at this point um from from eweb but it's something that we need to understand the relationship between conservation on one hand and and an inexpensive resource on the other and those are those are going

28:24 to have some trade-offs so this is what I this is the fun part sorry Ben Ben's want kind of the head analyst for for this with some other people within power planning this is when you really get into the okay you have a base case now you need to now you get to go in and look at different kinds of risk analysis and the what-ifs so we'll run some sensitivities around hydro and Gast risk analysis some of that has to do with pricing risk availability risk transmission cost and availability trying to answer the question does location matter so um it's different if you have a resource in Wyoming or Montana versus you have a

29:10 resource locally and so if there was potential for high transmission risk in the future which as the grid becomes more constrained is a possibility what does that do for something like Community solar so we we best definitely want to test those going forward so that's what we mean by transmission availability that's really checking does location matter we want to look at load growth scenarios so what happens if electrification accelerates or decelerates and what's the impact on the resource what's the impact on the cost and what's the impact on the risk of reliability and transmission and these other things so we want to look at different scenarios of of growth

29:56 funding Reserve margin is is a way of that's that's the sensitivity associated with how eweb operates in the region typically uh every utility has to have a little buffer of resource if you added all those up so we we might have to have a 10 buffer but if the region could share those and have a regional requirement it it may or it may increase or decrease our planning Reserve margin we want to be able to understand the impact of that buffer um which is a regional reliability requirement so that's one that where it's more of a regional question and then we're thinking up some more of them we hope other people are thinking

30:41 of some more sensitivities as well um and and then we'll look at some in the next IRP I mentioned the the Bonneville products but one of the things that we will do also we think about a sensitivity so you might you might say transmission cost would be a sensitivity but you might look at a broader scenario which would be what happens in a more abrupt climate change impact so climate change we would have to go through and Vary for example it would vary the load pattern we would probably get slightly lower peaks in the winter slightly higher peaks in the summer we would also have to go in and check relative to two things with Hydro One

31:26 the overall production of hydro and the other the seasonality of it if you you would probably end up well most of the models not eweb models but most of the the weather models tell us that as the climate change you'll get similar amounts of rain but you'll get less snowpack which starts to shift Hydro from sort of late spring and summer capabilities back into winter capabilities so that would be part of an overall we look at we'd look at things like that we'd look at at the consumption and the resource side relative to some of those we also have have to model in Hydro some of the operational constraints um Hydro is not loved in the Fish and

32:11 Wildlife World and so we have there's there's a number of threats to hydro Columbia Hydro you hear about taking out the lower Snake River dams and some of the other um facilities and so how are we going to replace those or what would happen to replace those in a more constrained world what would that what would that mean would that drive it from Hydro to nuclear for example I don't know the answer to that um and that's a tough choice if that was your your choices so we're going to run a series of sensitivities those will be individual things we're going to vary look at the what ifs and then we're going to combine some of those to look at more of a scenario and scenario

32:57 planning options and then kind of what comes out of that is that we're going to look at these different results and out of that we're going to have to back out and say what are the actions that are supported by lots of these different Futures what makes sense no matter what is kind of the the way that we want to do things there are certain there might be certain things associated for example with Energy Efficiency or conservation or demand response it might tell us we need to put together a demanded response product line or it might tell us that we we need to explore further capabilities with within the Energy Efficiency Realms so there'll be certain things and

33:42 we'll have discussions with the board and a late spring early summer around after we've gone through this planning work what are the things that kind of make really a lot of sense for next steps and then um what are the things that we still need to research and then also we'll launch right into the work with Bonneville bonneville's policy proposal is scheduled and the policy proposal is something that will describe some of their future products and electives that will have that is scheduled to come out in late June and so had a perfect timing for us to be able to say okay we've done some of this work we've done some things we we know there are certain things that we really

34:27 should be doing to prepare here's the next step and we need to launch into that right away there's there's a lot of information on very simple eweb.org IRP now you know the p is not plan it's planning we need to change that I think Aaron um but this is going to be an ongoing process and one that we're actually really excited about we think it's really meaningful it takes account and looks to decades into the future and create some Legacy decisions at this point in time given all the the decisions that we have to make just as a benchmark if you look at the decisions that we're looking to make with Bonneville really

35:13 between now and 2028 those total up to over two billion dollars worth of decisions and so these are very significant this is very significant work that that we're doing and we're we're really pleased to be able to to collaborate and get you know our boards oversight and Direction with this and really do want to thank the power Planning Group I want to thank thank you for all taking an interest in this and providing lots of feedback for us this is part of a a mutual effort again we didn't go into this and say that we're going to manipulate the variables to get an outcome what we're doing is trying different combinations of things to see what makes sense in one

35:58 condition or what makes sense in another what makes sense in all conditions and so it really is an iterative process and we're in the middle of that we're looking forward to the next steps and working with the community on that that's Bonneville Dam by the way if you haven't seen foreign that's next I got does anyone have any questions just a very simple clarification just because it was new to me what can you give an example of a BPA product yeah so um I'll give you two really General products and we have we have both of those now one of them is What's called the block product and the other is called the slice product

36:44 so a block product is we just buy a block of energy from bonnabill and we can we can shape it a little bit by month we need so many kilowatt hours in January so so it's a block of Just Energy that we buy a slice product is that we actually manage a certain percentage of the Columbia River flow through the hydro dams so we and that's a product we have today and it allows us to move generation around with flow storage because there's how many dams are there Megan 31 dams so we can actually manage and shape Our Generation based on our

37:30 percentage of the flow in the river so and there's a I call it shape I'm not going to call it completely dispatched but we can shape it so that would be a block versus slice that's sort of a high level view of some of them and there's also the fact that we have our own generation is another difference some utilities they get everything from Bonneville and Bonneville balances their system we balance our own system so there's just differences in in those relationships Bonneville charges for that balancing so actually quite a bit so we think it's better in the long term at least at this point to be able to to have some of our own balancing capabilities

38:18 themes that energy storage is really important in all of here why not pump water up in the daytime and let it flow downhill yeah thumbs well first of all the biggest battery we have in this area is the Columbia River system so there's all kinds of dams and part of that is a recognition that water is storage there are several projects that are being evaluated across the the Northwest that are just that pumping it up when it's available and cheap and then generating when it's not those tend to be very site-specific um we looked at that actually at one point with our Carmen Smith um facility of the McKenzie and the the biggest part of that that we

39:03 found was just the regulatory environment that you get into when you get into water and the movement of water but yeah it's it's definitely been if we put it in the model or not but that's an explicit resource okay we did put in storage of different types but yeah storage is one that's starting to become more and more of an option as as other costs get more expensive as well and it's carbon free and some other things so so yeah that's a it's a viable option I'll go to you next and then oh yeah you already had a kid okay we'll go over here and I'm just about the status of your decommissioning process your

39:49 understanding is uweb is going to be losing some of that capacity and I'm just wondering how that plays into your planning yeah so we um we definitely had to put that in the plan so how winning the plan was uh first of all a couple of things the it was about four three or four percent of our total generation came from lieberg um as the site you're referring to um it's also not one that's very good for peaking so leapburg is what's called a run of the River Project it's not like a big Dam that you store water behind and then you can use it when you need it so it's it you can't be shaping it at all the dam that you see the Liebert dam is just simply a diversion yeah and so it's

40:36 peaking capabilities is not very high and we also looking into the future just the regulatory environment associated with efficient Wildlife issues would diminish its production and so ultimately ultimately became very expensive multiple times more than even other renewable carbon free options and so that's that's kind of why it made sense to look at Lee Brick in that way and we've we've included that in our modeling that's you know that's the only thing that's on the decommissioning table it's it's only leiberg um probably within the next several years I would say before 2028 2030 we will have to look at Walterville Walterville is the same size slightly

41:23 smaller it runs a little bit differently it has different risk profiles so um we'll have to look at that sometime it's licensed actually it has a valid operating license through 2040 and so I would expect eweb to start really looking at that particular decision probably about 10 years in advance the last re-licensing we went through took 15 years to get a new operating license that was Carmen and so it's not an easy simple process unfortunately probably late 20s we'll that would be the project to dive into someone over here and you look like you have another question

42:14 go ahead yes well I have a whole bunch but five or six but I'll start with you okay I'll start with two they're fast um so one is I'm curious with the BBA and the drugs of California have been pretty extreme have you noticed a significant price increase over the past three years say like how significant has that been curious so there's two things that have happened over the last three years three or two or three years in particular one is that the general ramp up in price so kind of an overall scarcity issue the other thing is just the volatility the volatility has become really really

42:59 challenging from a pricing perspective we see that it just depends on season time of day what there's a lot of links between the natural gas pricing and electricity pricing they're still a pretty heavy amount of natural gas generation in the west so all those things combined we will see price excursions routinely now it used to be kind of it's sort of I would equate it to the heart palpitation that you need to pay attention to um it's we'll see prices at one point during the day of forty dollars a megawatt hour and that's just and we'll see later that day 900 yeah 800 routinely several hundred over that time and it's it's a combination of

43:46 things but to me it's a sign of overall supply and demand growth across the the imbalance between the fact that we're adding a lot of load and not building a lot of generating resources to match it transmission constraints as well um kind of way into that it used to be pretty routine there were times of the year that electricity flowed into the Northwest and then obviously in the summer you can manage a giant sucking sound out of California that drags electrons really from all over the West Desert Southwest into California um there are limitations to the transfer between regions now so we're seeing a lot of General Trend up but also just volatility is pretty extreme

44:32 because that the other part of that question someone answered because I was curious about solar in eastern Oregon and the growth on solar in eastern Oregon and I know that some of that gets to the DC goes into DC line going down to California at least at some point in the year and then there's there's quite a bit of flow north and south between the the Northwest and all the Northwest in this case includes Canada Canada is a big exporter to the United States and to California um lots of hydro up there as well so a lot of this has to do with timing but yeah there are times of the year particular in the Summer where California relies on the northwest very

45:20 heavily and there's times there's other times when we rely on California so we we can be we're a net exporter in in as far as a region but there's times when the two rely on each other yes it's it's a challenge that I think um often gets overlooked is the transmission challenge um we we talk a lot about resources wind solar coal and natural gas nuclear we talked about a lot about the resources but getting it to its places is I think at some point in the next couple decades will become the biggest constraint you don't just build a transmission line in a year or two right it takes

46:07 the last one I know of is now taken 23 years and it's not started yet yeah I just have a terminology question what's some of the captions talk about one and two and one in ten Peak uh what's that yeah so um so basically statistically a one and two peak would be your average Peak so one every two years you can expect to get that or higher or that or lower so it's kind of an just an average peaking condition so one every two years a one in ten would Peak would be a peak you would see routinely every 10 years so it's it's usually higher and it's a little less frequent although if you know anything about statistics you know it might happen two years in a row the so-called

46:52 hundred year flood we have everything yeah it's kind of that's that same principle yeah yeah so there's it's statistical so we we've seen oh we'll get a one in ten Peak and then oh two years later we get another one in 10 Peak or okay so and it's over a long period of time yeah Chris question about the batteries I was interested to see batteries come out as such a valuable resource and I noticed a couple of times in the report it said that one of the values of batteries is that you could as you said charge them when the power prices are low and discharge them into the market when the power prices are high and use that as sort of an Arbitrage and I know UF has a lot of super smart analysts but we can't

47:38 be the only utility with super smart analysts so it seems like if all the utilities are installing batteries and everybody's charging and discharging seems like it would tend to moderate the prices and those Arbitrage opportunities would disappear or moderate and that the I'm wondering how much the value of batteries depends on that fluctuation in market prices yeah I think this would you bring up is actually one of the reasons that the sensitivities become important right and we we don't work in a vacuum in fact we're connected to a greater grid last time I checked

48:23 it's the Western grid so it's the western United States and Canada we represent in Eugene 0.13 of the grid so it's it's not like that we're gonna to you know destroy the grid if we do something weird but it does point out that we're not the only players in the markets and there's a couple of things that that are going to drive what you just said about batteries one is as people talk about economies of scale with batteries but there's also supply and demand associated with batteries and the costs of the materials there's a lot of materials being taken up in batteries and what's that going to do to the cost of the battery the other thing is yes what would happen in your scenario is the relationship between Peak and off

49:08 peak would start to mitigate and we've seen that through time when we've had plenty of surplus that Peak versus off-peak wasn't very different we're seeing a lot different now and you're right if everybody rushes out and does it it'll tend to mitigate that um I think it's probably at least at this point too expensive for everybody to just go out and do a whole bunch of it I think it's going to have to be more of a very tactical move to cover certain conditions within a utility it's almost a risk mitigation decision as opposed to an economic one but that's one that we're going to have to test I I know that when I talk to other people in the industry our base case

49:53 produce more battery option than most and so we have to go back and check the assumptions there but you're right it's the marking conditions will change the value of batteries as well as other forms of storage right so yeah well you knew I was going to ask a solar question I'm not surprised I understand utility solar currently is an all-expensive resource for providing Peak winter capacity however rooftop solar should be incentivized for homeowners and commercial facilities that want to meet their individual needs and reduce demand the grid thus reducing their carbon footprint and lowering Peak summer demands with the IRA the

50:39 incentives uh will support more solar more people are going to be buying into that so what at what point with all these people putting in rooftop solar which is going to take off um does eweb look at doing going from annual net metering to or going from monthly net metering to annual net metering and when do they start thinking about changing the size of the minimum restriction meters to maybe 25 to 200 yeah so there's there's a few questions you snuck a few questions in there I've got a lot just one so um on the issue of how the net metering is structured we actually have been

51:25 thinking about that for a while and it's it's not an indictment or a criticism or an endorsement of solar it's that we have some kind of major rape design work to do um and the the purpose of the rate design is to avoid sort of cross subsidies um because right now our fixed costs are not recovered through our fixed charges so what happens is that a couple things that happen if you lower your your uh your variable charges which would happen in a solar installation we're still stuck and when I say we your neighbors are still stuck recovering the fixed

52:10 cost so that's a piece that's a rate design piece where getting closer and closer every day to putting together a redesigned plan that will reach out for the next probably five years and look to better align costs and price so so that's one thing that has to go into that both both the annual versus the monthly as well as how that gets recovered right so uh so that's that's probably the biggest step that prevents us from doing something like an annual net metering um the the other thing that you mentioned was was the IRA so the IRA is

52:57 something that will affect some of these Alternatives as we sort of boil in some of the the incentives to sensitivity we're going to have to kind of continue to to iterate on a little bit so I don't know exactly how much that's going to drive it one of the biggest challenges that we have with solar here is that we have very carbon free cheap energy electricity when you look where solar becomes really successful is places like California where the solar pattern is different their rates are three and a half times higher and the recovery is just we we do

53:42 analysis one there's lots of analysis and the payback for customers here is beyond the life of the equipment and so it's now we can to help that we could raise rates that's probably not a good option or we could create incentives which is something we have to watch out for because it's not my incentive or the board's incentives incentives that come from your neighbors so that's where we have to live in that world of end that I talked about and so um there are some things that will help it evolve but as an option for a utility it's still very expensive compared to the alternatives

54:28 is there another question in there you're still looking at I I tried to remember all of them but the the meter uh I know the commercial I know a lot of solar installers who have had commercial systems for commercial clients stop a solar project because of the metering so if they enlarge the meter capacity then they would have put it in yeah we've we've uh again that's something that is not a mystery and it's not something we haven't thought about it gets back to the um the return on that investment from the customer's perspective but also from the utilities perspective and there's there right now there's an imbalance there because of those conditions that I described earlier now we in some of the

55:13 things that we look at we'll we'll have to look at what's the impact of moving that 25k up to 50K or in you know things like that but that has to be done in the context of our redesign and our IRP and and other things so it's not that we haven't thought about that we we recognize Eugene is a very expensive place to put solar in from a return on investment perspective because we're you know 11 cents a kilowatt hour whereas you know it's three almost three times that in Sacramento for example it's even more than that if you get outside of that so yeah that would be a much better return in that situation plus your your solar

55:58 generation is just that much more as well here we deal with what's about well about 13 capacity factored on solar roughly yeah yeah so that's the you know if you put in a hundred kilowatt system you're going to average about is that about right Chris 13 on a year 11 12 13 yeah in band you're going to get 17 but you get more production on the east side of the mountains whereas if I lived in Palm Springs I don't know what it would be but it'd be pretty good and it'd be timed well so that's the challenge that we have a solar and there's some there's actually a solar handout over here did you you yeah okay I don't know if it answers all your questions but

56:46 we have time for one where how are we doing online are we doing okay who's the time a few more minutes yeah four minutes okay I'll go with you and then you okay does your model include political risk like yours every now and then people talk about changing Bonneville their policies are a different part of the country and about having our nice cheap power yeah that's that's got to be in the what if scenario so the the one thing that can change what we do really really quickly is legislation and regulation and a really recent example that picture of all places in the state of Washington where they passed a cap and trade law that is impacting how we trade

57:33 electricity in the region it a lot of it it really impacted the um not just the pricing but the liquidity of who we could trade with and we actually may have a reporting obligation in the state of Washington because of that even though we're not a Washington utility but the trading hub for the Northwest happens to be located in the state of Washington so when we buy and sell Power it goes through the state of Washington which all of a sudden puts up an impact on us fortunately we're under the carbon basis right now but we're not under the reporting basis so is one of the biggest variables that we are going to have to look at from just what if perspective

58:19 you know there's if you look at the cost socialized cost of carbon on the difference between the Obama Administration the Trump Administration now the Biden Administration the cost of carbon was 60 it went to seven and now I don't get somewhere back up I mean it just and if you're making decisions based on that it's it's tough environment so that's why we're going to test all these scenarios we want to see what has the robustness to make sense in lots of different potential Futures the political one is part of that yeah we go we go you just stuck in under them yeah thank you for doing this I've learned a lot and um I'm hoping that as you run these models in the planning process you keep

59:05 we the people involved yeah I think well first of all again I can't speak for the analysts but it's fun so it's it's fun to understand what questions that I knew Jim was going to roll in with I think those are important because it is it is really easy to for anybody including me to cherry pick something out of this and go I'm going to latch on to that and yet you have to understand the context right so the public provides context the board who represents the public provides a different context um and so I really think that that's going to be the pattern is that we're going to have routine integrated

59:52 resource planning that's going to be recycled and iterate over time if I I just think if you come up with a plan and you know you're driving down a road and if you've ever been in this situation you're you're a kid in the back seat puts their hands over your eyes and if they go like this every once in a while you can still steer but if they put their hands over too long which is a solid plan for too long you're driving off the road so I hope you can help us stay on the road and uh I think this is just going to be a cycle you know there's going to be lots of uh reporting lots of interaction lots of considerations for for our board

1:00:38 and decisions that we make so I appreciate the encouragement and there's a lot of Staff here so it's going to be our commitment as we have to keep doing that thanks for that one is it about solar I saw Jim texting everybody does eweb use time of day for demand rates or is e-web considering that so we do not right now so time of use pricing is one of the mechanisms that you can do to use to shift or load around and part of the reason that that you have to look at that is that's what the costs are doing as well it's an

1:01:25 electron costs a lot more on winter day at six in the evening than it does on a summer day in the middle of the afternoon so we do not have time of use pricing right now that would be one of the things that would go into our redesign plan is that what and how would you use that going forward but there's a there's a lot of utilities that use it we just don't do that yet but that's going to be part of the the redesign work that I was talking to Jim about as well as kind of this alignment of of cost and price and I I do think over time that has to align so that part of the reason is that so if commissioner Carson makes a decision about her usage that that Jim knew is not paying for it or

1:02:11 the other way around now you can socialize some of that but if we want we want people to make decisions in an equitable way and so time of use will become part of that at some point I don't know if that's a two-year thing for your thing but I would say sometime in the next five years and and we'll have to determine by the way how much is demand response worth so if someone shifts their consumption from six in the evening to 11 in the evening how much does that save us and some of that should go back to the person making that decision which is a lifestyle so that's part of that analysis and so the the integrated resource planning

1:02:56 Works in conjunction with a lot of other things transmission design distribution work uh the rate design work all of that is really important it's not one thing in a vacuum that's why I like the planning instead of plan because I think this is going to launch into a number of other areas within the utility to thank whoever that was Anonymous oh anonymous it wasn't it she was like I'll be I'll be around I know we have some other things to cover one can uh come up next and talk a little bit about uh transportation electrification

1:03:49 uh my name is I work on one of my roles is to work on transportation electrification and that's what I will cover a few minutes this week so it won't take too long uh these programs that we have are funded by the clean Fields Program and so that allows flexibility to get uh creative with programs that bring accessibility during programs that perhaps some bring traditional return on investment so the incentives and progress that we have are not coming from different rates a different funding source I'm going to talk a little bit of an overview of what we have and when we create these programs we try to be intentional not only do you want to help with adoption but also you want to bring accessibility something may be available but it's not necessarily accessible so how do you how

1:04:34 you bring that solution and that takes time but it's also very fun and rewarding to work on these efforts we have home charging incentives but we also have commercial ones we have e-bike rebates which has been extremely popular this year we have these uh accessibility Equitable programs that are car sharing and Community grants the community grants is a really I think rewarding program because you're able to support six Community agencies that provided efforts in our area and including bike libraries and charging infrastructure that we could not do otherwise and then we also have community events such as and also test right events that we have and the charging infrastructure the charging infrastructure is another way to bring accessibility to these through

1:05:20 this technology where we have level two charging stations that are no cost for using them and we're looking at dcfc infrastructure that would be a pretty affordable cost right now standard costs are around 40 cents a kilowatt hour hours will be substantially lower than that so it's a way to bring access to charging for like Uber drivers or multi-family those individuals right now because they don't have a HomeTown access makes it difficult following the residential home charging we have a rebate and that's a 500 rebate for level two charging infrastructure you have to be an even Electric customer not just an ebook customer and we always ask you to contact distribution engineering to ensure that it's in that capacity when you're looking at making that installation again this is for level two and level

1:06:06 two provides around 20 miles an hour when you charge so it's pretty substantial if you charge over now you should be in good shape for the next thing then we have a residential e-bike rebate you also have to be in an eweb electric customer that is the 300 incentive for most actually all electric bicycles one two and three and we have two rebates per household also if you have um mobility issues adaptive bicycles do qualify those will be individuals who may need specialized equipment and if you're interested in conversions those have to be professionally installed just to ensure the safety or the of the provider an interesting data on these is we had 971 bicycles in 2022 and we started in April there's a substantial amount of e-bikes and also about over 80

1:06:52 percent of our incentives uh help bikes that were three thousand dollars or less 36 percent of our incentives were for fifteen hundred dollars or less e-bikes and 14 close 13.8 percent was for e-bikes that were 500 or less so it helps with that accessibility to this technology and then lastly on the Equitable access to technology vehicle ownership is that it's not something that is available to everybody if we worry about medicine or paying rent you may not be looking that you may you can a ten thousand dollar rebate on a forty thousand dollar vehicle is not going to help much so how do we answer that and one way was to partner with LTD City of Eugene and also Fort Mobility to bring um

1:07:37 Church it goes forward both of them go you know right if you click the laptop to the arrow button so yeah thank you so on the golf course car sharing program that is a partnership with LTD fourth in the City of Eugene we have two locations at the Santa Clara station and

1:08:22 Iris Place which is an affordable housing project but I said visit the boats between those two locations uh we've had customers Thrive over 3 800 miles and over 200 trips and we also have an upcoming important City of Eugene downtown this has taken a long time but we have confirmation from fourth that will be available in three weeks and these this is available at two the first developers are free and then it's four dollars for every additional hour which is pretty competitive compared to other models that are around 12 or 10 an hour once you sign up you're also part of a larger Network so there are other utilities doing the same programs like Advanced so you can access those Vehicles as well and with that that ends and I'll leave it now to help

1:09:08 thank you okay here we are okay I'm sorry I'm a specialist and I work in the customer Solutions department and our role is to implement Energy Efficiency programs talk to contractors and answer customers questions we have quite a few programs and we offer rebates and zero interest loans for energy and water and other programs our bread and butter is a feeding Heating and heating that would be ducted heat pumps ductless heat pumps

1:09:54 heat pump water heaters we do windows and insulation Energy savings as well we are a water utility so we do have some water at savings incentives uh for uh go for toilets or customer hand valve um installation we have an excellent low-income program where income qualified households can receive extra funding for Energy savings in addition we offer electric service upgrade repair or water line upgrade so they can

1:10:40 improve their their homes I need to say that the um to Sloan sport for rental properties and multi-family homes as well and then our up River uh customers in the McKinsey watershed have access to uh septic repair and maintenance incentives as well to protect our water quality um business rebates and low interest loans as well so our most popular program in commercial businesses which are like

1:11:25 warehouses grocery stores new construction goes on and on our most popular program is our lighting program of upgrading to LED lighting because it's uh the most cost effective in Energy Efficiency thing to implement and we do a lot of that at eweb we also have heating technology incentives on our website we have a menu of programs and heating that um if you're a business you can check out it does include ducted much ductless connected thermostats for top units on and on um and then we also do some water and

1:12:11 I'm I'm not going to talk about all the programs because it's just too much but you can find everything on our website eweb.org rebates and savings so if you have any interest in any of these programs go to our website and then our basic workflow it's not designed to be confusing we really think it's pretty easy on some of you so if you can get to our website eweb.org rebates and loans you can find out what our you can contact us by sending us an email giving us a phone call looking at all the programs we offer or you can apply online and once you apply online you

1:12:58 will uh be uh assigned a specialist which I'm one and once you have a specialist we'll take you home we'll figure out how to get you where you want to go but essentially this once you get a specialist The Specialist will uh review your application and then send a approval letter to you then you can get the measure installed send us the invoice and other paperwork that we might need we'll process your payment and mail it to you and that's our process the questions

1:13:44 curious on the rental Loan program typically the loans are paid back on the bill but the bill is paid for by the renter typically are are the loans available only to the rentings or are they available to both and if it's to the owner who's getting the benefit of you know having their upgraded rental unit how do how do they pay what's the mechanism for that okay so for rental loans the the owner of the building applies for the loan and the owner of the building pays do we see very many of those oh yeah

1:14:29 yeah rental property owners are very engaged in our programs I see a lot of season hello everybody so I'm going to round us out on customer facing programs my name is Anna Wade I'm also a business line manager so I hope if you hear anything through the last couple of slides uh with Juan and Sarah is that our goal is to create a variety of options for customers not just to achieve energy and water efficiency but also to address carbon in whatever way

1:15:14 that they think is going to best meet their needs so you've heard about transportation electrification and how you can reduce energy consumption and carbon within your home or your workplace I'm going to talk about our lead green programs uh the idea there being when you've done everything that you can do to reduce your consumption and save money and all of that for those that want to do more we want to create those options also I love that you called out the rentals because there's a lot of those programs that are more or less accessible depending on what your living situation is so this is our lead green product lineup a lot of you will be familiar with green power which has been around since about 2007. I'd like to couch that program is really our kind of local investment

1:16:00 option so in addition to purchasing renewable energy you're also helping to support local investments in PV solar Embrace green power customers are the source of funding for eweb solar electric program so if you want to participate in financing solar projects but maybe you have a very Trade Lot or you're not in a situation to do so yourself it's a great way to invest in that way um it also supports our green power grant for non-profits to do installations and things like that and also some really great K-12 education so we're making sure uh the youth are coming up and learning about renewable energy the next one is clean power so this is a program designed for those who really are focused on the value of renewable

1:16:47 energy so it's our most cost effective program to purchase wrecks it's less than half a penny per kwh it does have a minimum buy-in because it really is a bulk red purchase program so we really Target those larger energy consumers who are looking for a cost-effective way to do that the next one I want to talk about is carbon offsets so renewable energy is great coming into your home Etc but for those who want to say offset their carbon footprint related to you know your trash your wastewater treatment your your air travel whatever the case may be carbon offsets are an effective way to do that um and you know there's a lot of different you know places you could go to buy those I mean you've seen kiosks and airports and things like that our goal was to make that accessible and

1:17:33 easy for customers to participate in if they chose to we've done The Upfront work to make sure that these are verified and validated carbon offsets with the American carbon registry and you get billed right on your e-web build so you're not having to go out of your way and figure out is this a viable project are they really doing a thing we've done that for you the last one I want to touch on is the carbon forestry lab this is a really cool project that we're doing in partnership with the University of Oregon so we've basically transformed about 140 acres in the mechanic Watershed and there is a graduate group out there it's called the uh the soil plant and Atmospheric lab it's led by Dr Lucas Silva so he's taking these graduate students and they have transformed this as I said into an

1:18:19 outdoor laboratory and they are figuring out the best ways to maximize uh carbon sequel sequestration not just in the plants and the shrubs but also in the soil to serve as a long-term carbon sink so that's a program where you can have those immediate benefits for Watershed Source protection with the long-term achievements about how best can we maximize carbon sequestration using natural climate Solutions so really exciting exciting program again lots of information on the website of Anna Wade I'm also happy to provide information if you have any q a afterwards that's what I got for you

1:19:15 okay I was thinking I was gonna use the laptop but maybe maybe the remote business okay so I'm Terry Harwood I'm evix Finance Services really brief overview of our rate making process so um there are three main activities associated with the process of establishing customer rates the revenue requirement is the sum of all funding needs from retail customers to support utility operations this provides the basis for setting retail customer rates the cost of service allocation modeling or the Cosa it is the method to equitably allocate the rep requirements of the utility among the customer

1:20:01 classes um the process provides the basis for rate design decisions and helps to ensure the customer classes and pricey structure aligns with utility costs final step in the rate making process with the actual rate design which incorporates elements of the embedded cost of service analysis along with strategic Direction values principles and short and long-term margin of costs the goal of break sign is to develop rates that align these elements in providing customers with a fair and reasonable price for utility services it would also allow individual customer choice to consume conserve or make investment decisions without impacting other customers writing decisions are a fundamental

1:20:46 responsibility of the board and there are key rate making principles that have been established in determining prices for Water and Electric Services even if we're easier to be sufficient they need to meet the reasonable ongoing costs of the utility operations and all reasonable efforts will be taken to make rates affordable for its Community owners people will send efficient price signals that are cost-based and minimize subsidies to allow customers to make investment decisions that are sustainable long term without unfavorably impacting other customers what will charge customers non-discriminatory prices and customers receiving like services will be treated equally and last but not least gradualism is the

1:21:31 principle that Eva breaks ability is maintained and to the extent feasible grades do not unnecessarily shift um from year to year um we're looking at this slide and we're collecting back on the the meat grinder that was in the slides Frank was speaking to earlier because feels like you could just have a meat grinder here to show everything that's going into the process but yes the cost of service analysis here this is a modeling method methodology to assess rates hold rate making principles customer classes it provides a means to inform overall rate sufficiency and customer class

1:22:16 Equity by breaking down U.S Revenue requirements into the functional costs as this relates to tonight's town hall meeting the functional costs their production and transmission thank you uh are those categories that we're kind of speaking to tonight in relation to the resource planning conference um production and transmission this is what it costs for eweb to procure uh or produce uh energy and then transmission that's what it takes for us to bring it home in order to serve load and so those are two pieces of the ingredient lists of everything that goes into the rate banking process

1:23:02 all right so yes the IRP is exploring how eweb can best optimize a power portfolio into the future and as these decisions play out and costs become clear that's when it starts to play into the read making process more so the eweb board is the final Authority for setting rates on products and services and the retail rates process is typically part of a discussion that is in conjunction with the annual budgeting process each fall that's it great hi everybody my name is Kelly Hale I am eweb's climate policy advisor and

1:23:47 I'm here tonight to tell you about two quick things um one is that eweb has a climate change policy we passed it a few years ago it was recently updated but it it tells us um that uh the board passed it directs staff to take action in these five areas right so we have to take action on climate policy and in that measures mitigate and minimize greenhouse gas emissions IT addresses our power supply and transmission so when our modelers looked at the IRP we had to put in our carbon budget to meet the goals that the board set as part of that process it looks at you know how do we offer programs to help our customers decarbonize as Juan and Anna have been talking about tonight it looks at

1:24:32 climate impacts on e-web and how do we plan for a changing environment and how do we mitigate our and then it also looks at goals for eweb in our internal operations um so we have a set of goals that we need to meet internally and I'm excited to just tell you that we are moving forward with a new project uh that we're calling a climate guide book to share with the public uh how we're progressing to meet those goals uh and so this is a reference document that will be made available here in April it'll go before the board in March at our next board meeting and then will be made available on our website in April and it'll cover all of those areas of our climate change policy and describe what eweb is doing

1:25:19 to meet our climate change goals and how our work intersects with climate change issues more broadly so it's designed to be kind of a One-Stop shop of information for people who care about climate change and want to know what eweb is up to it's designed to provide data and information it's got a wide range of intended audiences for different sections but if you've ever wondered how is eweb making good on its internal climate change goals or what emissions Factor should I use to calculate my carbon footprint or how is eweb meeting its goals under the city of Eugene's cap 2.0 these are questions that the climate guidebook might help you with cancer so we're really excited to bring that to you we hope that if you

1:26:05 have questions that you want the guidebook to answer in the future that you'll let us know and look for that to be launched it will be an iterative process We'll add more content to it over time and we look to have annual updates coming each April and advance of Earth Day so with that I wanted to let people know that we will be happy to get a copy of any of these slides to you if you so choose just let us know and just wanted to really thank you all so much for coming and I'm going to turn that right over to Aaron wrap us up that's pretty much about all I was going to say so thank you all for joining us you can always find more information on our website um there's some handouts on you know solar Jim wants to talk more about that a lot of us are going to be hanging out for a while so keep the dialogue going

1:26:50 and make sure to submit your your comments some questions so we have a form here and you can do so online as well but thank you for coming and stay in touch with us we'd love to hear from you thank you