EWEB Board of Commissioners — December 2, 2025

0:03 Welcome to the December 2nd Eugene Water and Electric Board Board of Commissioner meeting board meeting. My name is John Barowski. I'm president this year. Uh we I want to we're going to do an agenda check here. Uh anybody on the board have any additions or changes to the agenda? Um I'm just going to make an announcement. Um, if some of you people are looking at at our agenda and see that our public hearing on the upcoming budget isn't in conjunction with the actual uh t space in the agenda that we're going to be going through and discussing that uh we did that for a

0:48 reason so we would have a time certain for people to uh call in. we've had in the past where we were ahead of schedule by 15 or 20 minutes and we didn't want to not have people be able to give public comment. So that's why we bumped it up to the beginning of the meeting. So the way that our agenda will go after we go through items from boards and general managers and our correspondence, it'll go to the public hearing for our budget and then it will go into public general public comment. So just for people who are watching at home or in the room, that's the reason why uh the agenda has been flip-flopped a little bit. So with that, we'll move on to uh item number two, which is items from

1:34 board members and general manager. Uh we'll start here with Sonia and go around. John, I will always call on you after the other four and then before myself. >> I do. Just for the record, I'm I'm starting to lose the audio quite a bit. So, if um it's, you know, I'll do my best to stay engaged, but uh as the evening goes on, the internet gets worse where I am. Um the only thing I [clears throat] had to report is I attended an OPED meeting and long story short, the uh employee benefits program is in good health and it's in good stewardship and uh nothing but good things to report. I think our capital contribution will be lower this year than it has been in years past. And Deborah can elaborate

2:19 if she'd like. >> Okay. Thank you for that. You need to plan is is well funded and that does mean a reduction in e webb's contribution in the coming year. >> Lovely. Okay. Sonia, >> uh, I just wanted to appreciate, uh, Frank Lawson came and talked to the Eugene Rotary, uh, today and, um, wanted to thank him for doing that. Thank you for coming out to the Rotary. >> um, for myself, I attended the McKenzie Watershed Council meeting last month. Uh, it was quite an interesting meeting. We had a presentation from a couple of

3:06 grad students at at Oregon State University and a project manager for the HJ Andrews forest, which is a forest up the McKenzie that was severely burned by the 2023 lookout fire. So, it was a research forest that has been doing ongoing research for well over 20 years. Um, and it got burned. And so now these grad students came and are are starting to work on um how the forest is recovering. So there were areas that were hot spots that burned and there were some that weren't quite as hot and so they're doing research on how this forest is going to recover after the

3:51 after the burn. Um it was it was quite interesting. Uh so that's going on up there. And then the other thing that I'll put out there is, and I'll probably put this at the end of the meeting as well, this Friday, uh, downtown Eugene, there's going to be a tree lighting ceremony where in Ky Square, kind of like Rockefeller Cent's tree lighting. It's it's like that. And it was done with uh cooperation from Eb. They uh the Chamber of Commerce. Uh, Sierra Pacific found a big tree out in their in their woods that they donated. And so it's five o'clock on Friday the 5th if you want to be there. It should be uh a fun time. I think that I don't know if any

4:38 of the Today's Show people will be there, but uh I know I I'll be down there for the tree lighting. So that's all I have. Frank. >> Yep. President Barroski, Commissioners, good evening. Uh just one thing on my list. uh this evening and and while it seems like it was just yesterday, it was actually a year ago this week that we launched our new customer information system and our new finance system. Um I do want to uh commend staff uh for not just launching it like they did. It was it was a a significant effort to replace a system that was originally put in in the 1990s um and modernizing that but also uh the dedication to continue to improve it uh throughout this year. Uh we didn't just

5:23 launch it and forget it. um we have decided to continue to improve it and that's where a lot of our our effort um recently has gone and so I want to st thank thank staff and our partners uh for doing that and I think we have either are approaching or have surpassed um over a million transactions um during that time and so really um very significant and important system for us and a building block for uh some of the things we want to do in the future. So thank you Mr. President. Mr. President, sounds too official. Sir, President Barovski, how's that? >> I'm not sure if that's a compliment or or not. So, >> okay. All right. With that, we will move on to correspondence. We had a quite a robust correspondence

6:10 packet sent to us. Does anybody have questions or comments on what we received in correspondence? >> Yeah, just a quick initial. These were allformational items uh many of which the board has requested. Um one particular note um on our operational uh report um this was based on our new uh e webb business management system and so it it broke uh the report into two primary sections one was a report on KPIs and how we are performing in our core work that's really keeping the lights on the water flowing the information flowing the money flowing and all the the various ways that we track our reliability and our workforce course and then the other part was a

6:56 report on the annual goals and how they relate to our uh strategic themes uh that we've built for the next three to five years. Um we are um well 18 seems like a lot of goals. We're on track with 15. We've completed one and there are two that are slightly behind schedule. And so um uh really uh feel good about the the the report itself. it it is a different format. So, I wanted to to thank um some people for for that in particular uh Holly and then um um Kelly Hail and then our managers for working under a different kind of format um which is the reason it took an extra month. But now we'll use that same

7:42 format for the basis for the year-end report which will um be gathering the data January and February and then report back to the board and the community really on the state of the utility in March. So really want to thank staff for that. >> Great. Uh questions or comments on correspondence? >> I just had one um comment on the officer and liaison positions. I've been the uh Elco uh representative I think for the last six years. Anyway, enough to have gone through a cycle of being the vice president and then currently the president. And I I think I would like to offer that up as an opportunity for somebody else who's interested to um be involved in that organization. So, I just wanted to put

8:28 that out there as we're thinking about that for next month. >> Sorry, I'm good. >> Okay. Um, yeah, as for myself, yeah, look at the look at the positions uh that are available for next next month because we'll be wanting to redo those. Uh, so if there's a things that interest you or you see that Sonia's ready to move on from El Cog, let's just kind of think about where where your interest lies. Um, I know that John Brown is just loving that OPED one too

9:14 much. So, don't try and take that from him. But other than that, um, great job on the correspondence. There was a lot in there, a lot of of of good information. For people that are watching online, it is all available uh on our website for you guys to go in and read if you want to get geek out like all of us. Frank. >> Uh, yeah. Commissioners, one thing that that was not in correspondence, but that I will be um asking you about in our one-on-one sessions is typically in January, we uh reiterate the board appointed consultants. Uh we're not doing a formal survey uh uh in this year. Um, but it'll be if you have

9:59 comments or suggestions that you would like to to share with me, I can pass that on to staff. Um, or we can have a further discussions in January. But, um, we're moving away from the unproductive um, commissioner hated um, survey that we've done in in the past. And so, um, if you want to provide feedback um, I'll be available to meet with you next week. >> Okay. All right. With that, we are ahead of schedule as always as far as our public. We tried to get it on, you know, move it up as far as we could. I am going to read the preamble. Well, no, that's for the public.

10:49 I think we'll just go ahead and open the public hearing and if somebody comes in later, we will be happy to have them hear it. Um, so >> President Ember, yeah, you you could do general testimony first. >> Okay. >> Followed by >> All right. Public >> hearing. We'll do it that way. I'm going to make a adjustment on the fly and we're going to do general public input uh by telephone or in person. So, I'll read this. Welcome to the to the public input session for this meeting. EW web is a public non-for-profit organization whose charter is to deliver drinking water and electricity to our community. Although this forum is not used for an open back and forth dialogue, commissioners and staff value hearing diverse perspectives

11:34 and receiving community input. Speakers are asked to keep their te testimony relevant to e webb business and request that everyone share their comments in a productive and respectful manner. Should speakers or audience members become disrupted, they may be muted and or removed from the building. Um, when your name is called, you'll have three minutes to provide your comment. The public session is now open. Okay. And we will start. Did we get more that came in afterwards? Okay. We did have one person that signed up to call in on the phone. We haven't received them yet. So, we will start

12:20 with Tana Sheepard and then move on to Chris Jones. >> Hey people, it's me Tana Shepard, also known as Ego Chick, and I'm with Ward 8, and I'm here I'm happy to start the comment with gratitude for EW Webb. Um, I think this is my first time being here this school year. It's been kind of a hectic start, but we're we're rolling. Uh, we just finished our salmon field trips, which are wildly successful. Lots of salmon in Lake Creek this year, which was really phenomenal for our students, um, third and fourth graders out there. Uh, we have our salmon release trips next week starting on the 8th and they go through that Friday. Every day um at

13:05 the park there at Kuspard at the tree garden, we do a game and we release the salmon. The board is more than welcome to just stop on by. Um it's a revolving door um field trip that every hour we have another group coming and we just roll that through. Um we've worked with about 1100 students this year. We have 53 um classrooms participating which is pretty solid. And yeah um I'd also I do have a couple notes. Hang on. I wasn't super prepared. Um I also enjoyed being at the the Kennedy emergency water ribbon cutting and so um it was really cool to see Miriam there with you and um and knowing that's right where I work, that's where my building is. So that was pretty neat to have that right there. Um and be able to do some education around

13:51 that. Um also uh just moving into the new year, we're looking into the EV challenge. So we have it scheduled already for June 2nd. and it'll be at the Lane Events Center again. Um, this year, the cool thing is we have a new science curriculum in middle school and it works perfectly with eighth grade. So, every eighth grade student will be participating in 4J along with across the county. Um, they even threw out a whole unit to do the EV unit instead, which is really nice. Uh, the wind energy is out also and we're um having more seventh grade teachers participate with that, which is really great. and then we'll launch into some different climate um you know activities with the students. Just a little heads up at at the state level we've had a climate

14:36 education bill pass and it goes into effect in January which is really great for the work that we're doing. Um I was actually a big part of passing that I'm in an outside group that worked on that. So it's kind of we'll be piloting some things in 4J and that goes really nicely with some of the mission work um with e webb. So thank you. Thank you again for funding a great program and serving so many students across the city. Thanks. >> Thank you, Chris Jones, followed by Alfredo. >> Good evening, commissioners, general manager Lawson. Uh, this story starts out scary, but it's got a happy ending, so hold on. I came here in March 2025 to light a bit

15:23 of a fire under you. Um, in reference to an ice storm that happened in January of 2024. >> I can The Time's up. >> We [clears throat] don't want to hear about three minutes. >> Anything to do with ice storm. >> All right. I told you it had a happy ending. >> Okay. So during that ice storm, some tree branches, as you may recall from my previous story, sagged into some power lines that unfortunately were e-web power lines and started a fire and pieces of burning tree branches dropped onto my neighbor's roof for about an hour. We got visits from the fire department. We got visits from e webb troubleshooters. It was it wasn't great.

16:11 Um, the troubleshooters safely turned off the power eventually to 1,400 houses and they were without power for about 12 hours on a freezing cold night. The whole situation was avoidable. The root cause was a vegetation management contract that EWB had with a single homeowner that prevented EWB from cutting back the trees that were near the distribution lines um to the normal safe standard. So, a bunch of us neighbors complained to e webb staff and they said they were working on it um and nothing really happened that we could see. So, I came to complain in March. I have learned from Ken Baldwin, the uh

16:59 enterprise risk management supervisor, that a couple weeks ago, EW reached a settlement with this homeowner that basically vacates this um unfortunate vegetation management agreement and it will after a few years of transition, the agreement will no longer be in force. So, I came back because I don't like to only come to complain. I came back to say thank you. Thank you for working on this. Um, the contract was in force for almost 20 years. And I know when I was working here, it was a source of much much frustration for vegetation management staff, for troubleshooters, for a variety of folks. Um, so I want to

17:46 say thank you for making this happen, for making for coming to a settlement. Um, and I want to name some specific people who I know worked on this. Um, Ken Baldwin, as I said, who was a great communicator during the whole uh, ordeal. Um, Sarah Gorsignner, who I know is here, uh, the business continuity manager. Shane Tennyson and the aptly named Ed Woody who uh work in vegetation management. Um Tyler Nice, the electric operations manager. Um some electrical crews who came to install some localized disconnect equipment so that the vegetation management could happen without knocking out power to

18:32 1400 houses. And I know there were dozens and dozens of other staff who produced data, produced documents, made phone calls, stood there on the sidewalk and talked to this homeowner while other people did the vegetation management work. Um, people who no longer work for Eb because this has been a problem for 20 years. So, thank you to all of these people. Um, and last but not least, uh, from the law firm of Louvas Cobb, uh, Eric Def and Karen Anderson. Um, I know you maybe lawyers don't get a lot of thanks and huras in this forum or pretty much anywhere, but I know that they took on what was always described to me as an impossible task and they did a great job

19:18 with it. So, thank you. That one's for real. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thanks everybody. >> Alfredo, >> what's my last name? >> Gormazando. [laughter] So, I am back again. And again, it's one of those old tired worn out subjects probably to your ears, but not to mine because I'm living with it. The other night, I was wondering why is it that when I take a nap in my bedroom, I wake up and feel groggy and offbalance, and when I take a nap in my living room, I don't. And then it hit me that smart meter is right next to my head pretty much on the outside of my bedroom wall.

20:04 Um, it's not even broadcasting, but this is what I'm feeling. And I'm not the only person that's having these effects. Now, we can look in our computers and look at statistics and basically find the statistics to prove anything we want to have proven. But there's something called human experience. And I know a lot of times it gets belittled and put down as anecdotal evidence and somehow that's not valid. But what are statistics other than a lot of anecdotal evidences, a lot of people saying a certain thing, we're coming to the same findings. So in our case where there's so many of us who have come to you for so long about these smart meters and

20:52 about the possible effects and now effects that I'm actually seeing. I wasn't even thinking about the meter when I came up with that. You know it just oh my god it's right next to my head. That's probably why I'm feeling so junky in after a nap. So, I really, really hope we can get some analog meters back on our houses. I know you guys don't want to do that, but we deserve them. And, you know, it was a project that took our money that we struggled to pay these bills with and gave us something that we basically did not want and was forced upon us. threats of being cut off. Threats of incredible prices to have to

21:38 have your electricity turned back on again. A lot of us called it coercion. A lot of us called it other names, which I'm not going to say right now because that mean guy in the corner might throw me out. You know, I don't you know, I don't think you're mean. Anyway, thank you very much. That's that's what I've got to say tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you, Patric. Excuse me, Patricia. Hi. Evening commissioners. My name is Patricia Hine. I am the co-president of 350 Eugene, a climate justice organization in town. Been working for over a dozen years on climate policy at the city and state levels and also energy policy and with

22:24 the utilities. And I'm here to deliver some things to you. There's letter for each of you commissioners that's from the 350 Eugene folks with some concerns and interests and hope that you will pay attention to in your hiring of the new general manager. We thank Mr. Lawson for his outstanding work. He met with us as soon as we came to town and was very forthcoming and we're big fans of Kelly Hail here and and you all as well. So, uh the letters are here and I'll deliver them as I'm able. I also got together with a bunch of community members last evening over at claim 52 who also are really, you know, interested in making sure our energy policy is up to date with all the latest of electrification, geothermal, and all the other things that we can consider now that that are that are the latest and greatest. And uh

23:10 we know that you have the smartest people in town at your organization. And we really really know it's going to be hard to replace Mr. Lawson, but we want someone who is going to really tie in with the things that are happening now that will bring us into a clean energy future. It's never been more important. Thank you. >> Thank you. That was the last one I had. Is there anybody else in the audience that didn't sign up that would like to speak at this point? >> [clears throat] >> Okay, with that I will close the public comment section and ask commissioners or staff if there's any comment that they would like to make. Mindy. >> Yeah. Well, thank you everybody for coming out tonight. Um it's nice to be thanked. So, thank you Chris for coming.

23:57 Um and it's great that that was um resolved. Um, and I also want to say, um, in response to Patty um, that we've also received some other emails to us just mentioning, um, different priorities of what people want to see in the general manager. So, thank you very much. >> Uh, I always appreciate uh, comments coming out and it lovely to hear all the thanks uh, to Tana too. I I love hearing about what the, you know, the we get to do as a public utility to help support education in our community uh to further uh the interest in climate change work and uh nature policy. So, thank you all

24:42 for coming out. Um appreciate the comments. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll just echo my sentiment, too. Um and I am uh appreciative of of the kind words and and Tana, good to see you again. and it was great to see you at the event. Um, and uh, just thank you for all the work that um, many of our community members are putting in. I think it's very clear here from public comments just the the support and and the partnership between EW and our community and how how well we work together. So, um, thank you, >> Commissioner Brown. Any comments? >> No, I'm good. Thank you. >> All right. With that, we will move on to the public hearing for for the upcoming

25:33 2026 proposed budget and price in person or by telephone. And we have one person signed up, Eric. I'm the only one. >> You're the only one. Help me with your last name. Okay. I'm going to open the public hearing and Eric, you you have the floor. >> Good evening, uh, board of commissioners and general managers. A pleasure to be with you again. Um, just some comments about the budget. Uh, just the budget overall. Uh, too many good things in there to to talk about. Very much appreciated all the work that went into it. um all the documentation um um uh made it easier to easier to figure out what was going on where and of course

26:19 I've been coming to meetings so I have a good idea of of what what's what's happening. Also appreciate the the web version there that's posted that's last year's budget but I'm I'm assuming of course that once this budget is passed it'll be a similar document lots of graphs and things like that which make it easier I think for people to read and so forth. So I appreciate that too. Uh, I appreciate the attention to rates and affordability and there's been some talk about that here tonight. Um, uh, I appreciate the fact that that you you're continuing the the, uh, the funding of of of programs that help out people that have difficulty paying for their bills and so forth. I never doubted that that would happen, but I do appreciate that that's that's part that's part of that that word affordability is becoming more and more prevalent in our discourse lately. I mean, it's always been there,

27:04 especially when you talk about housing and rentals and things like that in Eugene, but it seems to have taken on a new life. It's also become a bit more political. I don't know where where that's going. Um, but the fact that that EWIB is paying attention to those rates is is is uh is is a good thing. Saw a um an article that talked about uh some notable increases in electrical power rates this year um by state. And so they they basically broke it down by state. Fortunately, Washington or the state of Oregon, the state of Washington, I think one other state up here, too, but I can't remember which one. It wasn't California. But, uh, we're on the lower end of all that. So, that's good news. I think part of that is probably because we get so much power from BPA, but be that as it may, it that's a little bit of good news. And I think the whole idea of affordability is is we're going to

27:49 hear more about that. Um, very pleased to see the work that was done uh trying to match uh costs to rates that are charged to rateayers. I don't understand the philosophy of that. It's really complicated. I enjoyed the presentation I saw about it. Uh but I understand why you're doing it and I I think that's I think that's a good thing to do. Um and then the last thing I'll mention is I don't know how you do it. It's kind of magic to me. Uh but I think it's good magic and how you manage to to uh balance the rate increases that you're planning uh along with uh the um taking on the capital projects that you're doing. So the the the the um WAMIT second source and the work you're doing upgrading electrical equipment, all those things that that have been accomplished and are are coming are

28:36 upcoming and so forth. The fact that you're able to do that and also sort and also keep the rates affordable and keep the increases that we know are coming anyway and you know spread them out and so forth and still accomplish the work I think is a very good thing too. So thank you very much. I'm certainly in in favor of this budget for what it's worth. Thank you very much. Any other Okay, we have no other comments. So, I will close the public hearing. Thank you for your testimony. We will take that into consideration when we get on to uh item number 12. So moving on, we are now on item number

29:22 six, which is approval of the consent calendar A. Oo. Okay. Moved by Mindy, seconded by Sonia. Uh, any comments or questions? All in favor say I. I. John. Raise your hand. There we go. Okay, next we have approval of consent calendar B. >> Moved by Sonia, seconded by Mindy. Any discussion?

30:07 Okay. All in favor say I or raise your hand. I unanimous. Okay. We did not remove any items from the consent calendar which was item number eight. We will be moving on to item number nine. Uh the McKenzie Valley Territory realignment granting authority to the general manager to negotiate and execute a transfer within the guidelines. I will turn this over to general manager Lawson. >> President Baroski. Thank you commissioners. Good evening once again. Um this is uh a resolution um and go ahead with the next slide. I'm just going to sit here just to avoid the transition time up up front. This [clears throat] is uh a resolution granting authority to uh the general

30:54 manager to negotiate and execute uh what will end up being likely uh several contracts uh that would be involved in any uh transfer of a service territory. uh particularly in this case uh in the McKenzie Valley uh to Lane Electric along with any other regulatory filings that we would have to make to the Oregon PUC for example um or to others uh as part of the process. Uh just to be clear, there have been multiple memos uh on this um that have been part of board correspondence and and discussions um over the last several months. And so a lot of those details are provided in those background materials. Um just to

31:41 be clear, we are talking about distribution assets in the Mckenzie Valley uh which does not include transmission. It does not include generation facilities uh or substations or any particular recreational facilities or parklands that that we may own. It's it's simply uh distribution assets along with the uh rights uh to serve approximately a little over 3,000 customers. Um this uh through the years has been uh of interest to those customers um through a number of different feedback mechanisms. um part of that because while e webb does um uh provide a significant amount of communications with them and has we

32:27 do have a atlarge board commissioner uh this is something where they uh could have direct voting authority u as part of the governance structure of of lane electric for example. Um, it also includes the federal out the the portion of federal allocation that would be attributed to that that load and just a number of other terms and conditions that are that are uh part of the agreements and have which been provided to uh this board um under certain confidentiality um um permissions granted by the by the state of Oregon under OS laws. So, um, with that, the motion is up there. I'd be, uh, happy to entertain any comments, uh, or

33:13 questions. Um, um, but the the motion is granting authority to take particular actions that are consistent with the guidance that you have provided. >> Okay. Discussion. Mindy, >> I I just want to say that I highly support this um, for several reasons. one because e webb is largely a an urban utility um and the McKenzie baller valley territory is rural and lane electric is rural. I think that by um splitting this it allows us to do what we do best for our customers and allows lane electric to serve um up river folks in a way that better matches their needs. And secondly, as the atlarge

34:01 commissioner, I've interacted with a variety of uprivers, and I know we talk about them as a unit, but they're actually a very diverse group. Um, residents, businesses, a lot of people have different um different concerns or different interests, but the one thing that there is in common with I hear from people is their lack of representation. And I think that um one of the things that makes EW Webb so great as a publiclyowned utility is that we do have public representation. And so by allowing this transfer to happen, um the Up River customers in our territory will be able to have that same type of representation that the rest of our customers have. So I'm highly in support

34:46 of this. >> Thank you, John. anything? >> I'm good. Thank you. I I we went through this 10 years ago and I'm glad we finally found a way to to uh achieve it. I think it's a win-win for everybody. I'm fully in support of it. >> Okay, Tim. Yeah, I'll just echo uh my support of this and I just want to highlight my my concerns have been answered at previous meetings, but I've been concerned about uh if EW would face any job loss or uh if our staff would, which is sounds like there's not. Uh that if the customers themselves over in the upper river would be um concerned about this, which it sounds like they're not. Um it seems like this is uh

35:31 supported by everyone and a just a good move for us to to make. So I um uh I I think just echoing what Commissioner Slashber has said of it gives us the ability to refocus our energy towards Eugene Metro um and uh in a way that is is supported by all that every every step seems to be in a very positive direction. So I'm I'll be voting in support of this >> uh highly supportive for all the reasons mentioned and unless you mind I'll make the motion. >> Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Uh then I'll I'll move to approve the motion resolution number uh 2524. I don't think I have to read the rest of that. So I'll leave it at that.

36:18 Okay. So discussion on the motion. Um I just have a couple questions. Uh it's authorizing the general manager to go to negotiate and execute. So that means that this won't come back before the board. You will execute it. This is giving you the full authority to negotiate and execute without coming back to the board. >> That's correct, President Barovski. The the condition of that is that I have been provided guidance uh from this board and if should should anything uh go outside of that guidance, I would be obligated to return to the board. And then my second question then would be in if for some reason the transition of the new your position to a new general manager

37:06 just I'm not sure that that you know how that plays into negotiations and maybe there might at least be a checkin with the the board before before it's executed just to make sure. I I'm not sure if that would be appropriate or not, but it we're coming across some different timelines. >> There there's two pieces of context to that. First of all, all chaos would break loose everywhere. No, I'm I'm just kidding. Um >> the general manager is uh granted this authority by title. First of all, it's not >> Frank Lawson being granted authority. Um the other thing is um the designate uh clause is also in there. Um and then

37:52 probably the most important aspect is this has been a team effort by staff. So um the steering committee including uh finance manager, operations um executive um chief financial officer um uh key people in our risk management group u have all been participating in the process and I would expect that to to continue. Um, I think it's not just the general managers of Lane Electric and EW Webb that uh are doing this. I think our organizations um are collaborative. I think we all see the right purposes of this. Um, but we all understand there's a lot of details and we want to make sure those details are executed well and meet the objectives of this board and

38:37 the and the directors of Lane Electric. Um, thus we have conditions on on continuing. And so, u, I think those those are details, uh, that we would want to work out. We do recognize that while May 1st is a target date that, um, uh, it would likely either be in the spring or in the fall because of, um, staff and resource considerations. And so, um, if some of the filings take longer than May, then the the time frame could push past, uh, when I would still be at at EW. I don't know if I answered your question enough. I I I do think that that staff and I I can commit on behalf of of Deborah and other staff that we will

39:22 keep the board informed um, as we go through this um, process um, as appropriate. could be monthly, could could be quarterly depending on how much activity is taking place. And we'll just make that commitment. >> Yeah. And again, and I'm just uh you know, since it does say the general manager, I'm just throwing out there. We get a new general manager in here and he says, "I don't want to do this. We've given him authority to negotiate it." So, I just want that direct him or her or they excuse me. Um I just want to make sure that everything keeps going in the direction that we had hoped for. Um and then the other thing that I just want to mention is that uh the McKenzie Valley has been a legacy

40:11 part of our uh organization for over a hundred years. We got started by building a dam up there and bringing power to the to the city of Eugene. So, um, as as times change, things change, but just know that that the upper Mckenzie Valley and the McKenzie wershed will always be a part of our heritage and our our uh concerns going forward. We are we still have that as our number one source of drinking water. So, we are very committed to the McKenzie Valley. Just because we're transferring some of our assets to another uh very fine organization doesn't mean that we're turning our backs on the on those

40:57 people. So, I am also in favor of moving forward with this. >> President Baroski, I would I would on on behalf of management e echo that our presence in the Mackenzie Valley, our investments in the Mackenzie Valley will continue. Uh we have generation assets as well as a prime drinking water source. And so that we would expect to continue. >> Great. Okay. Any other comments or questions before we take a vote? Okay. All in favor of resolution number 2524 authorizing the general manager to negotiate and execute an agreement. Say I. >> I. Okay. It's unanimous. Thank you for that. John, he raised his hand. >> Yeah. Okay. Just for the record, it was

41:43 five to zero. I just see John over my shoulder. >> I saw him raise his hand. >> All right. >> Okay. All right. There he goes. >> Yes. And we we can hear the waves every time you talk. So, all right. Next item item is item number 10, limited income program assistance. President Barofty, commissioners, I'm I'm going to sit here because I think the the front row may get a little bit crowded and um most of the time they don't want to sit next to me anyway, so I'll stay over here. >> This is my assigned seat. >> Holly, can you advance the slide?

42:32 So commissioners um really appreciate the the flexibility on this part particular subject matter. Uh we are deviating a little bit from history where we simply presented a budget and then uh called for approval of of the rates associated with that budget. Part of the reason that we're doing it a little bit differently this year is the commissioners have expressed interest in a couple of related things. And when you talk about rates uh without the context of some of the other financial tools we have such as fees and customer programs, you're really not getting the entire picture. And so our intent this evening is to give you a little bit of a of a broader context to how those all relate uh to each other. And so we appreciate

43:19 uh the fact that you're going to let us walk through this um uh and these different uh program elements um in particular uh before we get into the rates uh themselves. And so programs really have specific outcomes in mind. Uh rates generally tend to be our cost recovery mechanism and things that we look to do as far as as uh driving consumption behavior. Uh and then fees really are a result of very specific um cost recovery for different types of activities that that directly relate to those costs. So just quick reminder on how rate setting works. This will relate to the the budgetary uh portion of this. Uh we really look at the revenue requirement

44:04 uh for the organization. This is sort of the balancing of the budget. Um and typically uh like this year it's approaching about uh almost half a billion dollars, just a little under half a billion dollars for both water and electric and shared services. We allocate that to various customer classes. Uh it's driven by what kinds of costs those are and then those are used to establish the fair and equitable uh rates that we look to uh to develop from that revenue requirement. the we do have certain principles that that drive those rates. Uh again, these have have been part of discussions for a number of years. Um and we do uh want to continue to abide by the principles of

44:50 rate design. Um some of those have to do with financial security and and sufficiency and also transparency as to where those costs come from. Some of those calculations do get a little bit tricky. That's why we have Adam uh sitting there to make sure that the allocation of certain costs go into certain buckets that then can be recovered uh in the appropriate manner. Um but we really do appreciate the fact that um at least this evening we're going to talk about programs in particular our limited income programs and improvements that we're planning to make there. We're going to talk about energy efficiency and how that relates specifically to um the rental stock in the community and then we're going to tie it together when we talk about um

45:36 budgets and then the impacts on rates. And so you can see uh we'll we'll see how our present programs can affect the rates paid by limited income customer for example. So we're going to tile that together in a little bit different way this this time. And so with that we're going to tag team a little bit. We're going to jump to limited income. Then we'll go to energy efficiency and then budgets and rates. And then um we'll give you a little bit of a breather. Um and then you we'll we'll come back and you can uh grill the team here with all kinds of of questions. But with that, I'll pass it off to Anna Wade who is our customer solutions manager who'll talk a little bit more detail about what we're going to do going forward with limited income. >> Thank you, Frank. For the record, I'm

46:22 Anna Wade, the customer solutions manager AIC. Um, we are eager to be here tonight. We know that this is a really important topics to the board. So, we're eager to share our findings and also for the discussion that will follow. Um, with that, I'm going to start with a little table setting. Go ahead. U, so the board is familiar with our five-year themes as well as our annual goals as they relate to limited income. Um, I've also included the specific deliverable that was assigned to me um for your reference on the slide. Next slide, please. So, if you boil all that down, this is my mission statement. Um, based on customer feedback, identify uh oper

47:07 options to enhance impact and drive participation in limited income products and programs while managing budget and rates. So, uh fair enough. Um this is our agenda. this I'm going to cover this section in I'm going to cover this uh topic in three sections. We'll start with some customer data uh followed by a little higher level overview of spectrum of need and then we'll end up with uh some strategies or programs going forward. Next slide. Okay. So, uh within your board packet you saw a more comprehensive overview of customer data and experience. Um, we're going to just touch on a few of those. Uh, but some of my takeaways through this exercise even with uh bill

47:53 assistance, some of our customers still struggle. Um, also there are community members who need help and they're not receiving it. Um, we know that based on census data, etc., but we're going to get into that a little bit more. And then also, uh, scheduling and documentation are challenges for our customers going through the bill bill assistance process. Next slide. Um, unsurprisingly, customer our our limited income customers, even though they do receive assistance, still face challenges. Uh, bill assistance customers are twice as likely to receive late fees and four times as likely to be disconnected. Um, these account actions take a financial toll in both added expense as well as deposit requirements

48:39 that often follow. Next slide, please. Accessibility really needs to be a primary focus of our programs um and and our program management. Uh for example, 500 customers um apply for ECC every year on average um but do not ultimately receive assistance. These aren't customers who are determined to be ineligible. These are customers that sort of fall out of the process. So there's churn um and we need to identify points of friction. Also 43% of applicants are not registered on ew webb's portal. That is really important because that is the most efficient way for our customers to participate really with any of our

49:25 program. Uh so we need to get customers onboarded and then also on awareness. Twothirds of dist disconnected customers are not receiving assistance. Um that means when we look at customers that are that are disconnected each year, we don't see evidence of bill assistance on their on their on their customer account. So we need to look at some direct engagement strategies. Um we know from our 2024 customer survey that approximately 70% of respondents are aware of ECC. So we're thinking more in terms of are they were in the moment when they needed the most. Next slide please. So, this is data that was um shared in your packet, but in thinking about those 500 customers that apply each year and

50:11 don't make it through the process, I wanted to hear from them. I wanted to, you know, kind of validate what we what we think might be the cause. Um, as you can see, the two most challenging items that our customers responded to were um scheduling and attending the intake appointment um as well as getting that documentation together. So um it's something that we had suspected our customers validated for us. Income verification is a challenge. We also know that it does create delays in receiving assistance. So um customers that can be approved through uh categorical eligibility. For example, we can apply assistance in as little as two business days. That can be up to a month on average if we have to refer them. So

50:56 it makes a big difference. Next slide, please. All right. So this section we're going to talk a little bit more high level. Um [clears throat] while our customers are unique, there are some common themes that we see. Some key takeaways for me in this section. Um one size does not fit all. Our customers are different and we um different needs require different tools. Next slide please. So some customers face chronic financial burden. Um these are our lowest income customers. Um they tend to have lower econ economic mobility. So we know that uh even with assistance you know cha they're going to face challenges on their account. Their their financial

51:43 pressures are persistent um and they are looking for support on a regular basis. Next are our customers that are a little bit more intermittent in their need and their outreach to e webb. Um these can be customers from our lowest income to moderate income. Also Alice customers asset limited income constrained but employed. Um so these are customers that tend they're able to cover their bills for the most part. Um sometimes they have late fees things like that but they are say a trip to urgent care away or perhaps an unexpected week out of work and they're in trouble. And when they encounter these situations the e the need is urgent. um they may not be uh eligible for all social safety nets because there are income requirements as as we have

52:29 here at EW. And then lastly, our customers face life events. These can put anybody into immediate crisis. So these aren't just the kinds of events that have a financial toll, but also a psychological one. Um they can affect people's ability to pay just in terms of accessibility or you know account access. Um, examples include, you know, critical illness, job loss, something that just takes an an immediate and impactful financial toll. Next slide, please. All right. Real quickly, before I get into uh the data here, I just want to comment I am very proud of the continuous improvement work that we've done over the years with our bill

53:15 assistance programs. um uh you know, categorical eligibility, like our our time to payment. We we've done some really good work. That being said, uh $280 one time a year is still a very blunt instrument given the variety of factors that that affect our customers ability to pay. One of those factors being well, how many services do they have on their e web bill? 52% of our bill assistance customers are electric service only compared with 39% that receive all four services. That makes a big difference. So if you consider two um low usage electric customers, say they consume 580 kilwatt hours a month, right? That $280 is going

54:02 to cover about 25% if you're electric only for the year. If you're paying for all four services, that drops it down to 14%. So, it makes a difference how many services that that customers are receiving, how big an impact we're having with that 280. Um, but I think it's really important. Let's not forget that many of our customers obviously uh face a much higher uh burden with utility costs. Slide, please. Um this is a concept that the board is very familiar with. Uh limited income does does not mean uh low usage. In fact, our limited our bill assistance customers mirror our general public in

54:47 terms of their consumption patterns. Um and that is you know part of when we're talking about like fixed charges versus variable charges. We know that the impact um to those customers, no matter no matter how you balance those, there's going to be an impact whether they're high consumers or low consumers. Um uh high usage limited income customers cover an outside share of EW's fixed costs through their usage charges. Um so in short this is why we are pursuing costbased rates coupled with a programmatic approach to bill assistance programs. Essentially a thumb on the scale of rate design creates winners and losers based

55:33 on consumption rather than aligning to a true cost of service. And that is why we're pursuing a programmatic approach as I said to bill assistance. Next slide please. All right. With so many um different factors affecting our customers ability to pay, it stands to reason that there really there isn't a a silver bullet. There isn't this unicorn perfect program out there that is going to attend to all of the different needs or address all the factors that are are affecting our customers. We need tailored tools so to support our bill assistance customers and we need to acknowledge individual uh needs in a way

56:18 that is both sustainable and conscientious of rateayer dollars. Next slide please. All right, this last last section um we're on to program strategies. So I'm going to cover this in in three categories. First is bill assistance and then I'm going to talk about a couple of complimentary programs and then we'll talk about some customer engagement. Next slide. All right. So the first of three bill assistance programs that we will be offering in the future um is is new. It's an affordability program. So this will take the form of monthly billing credits that are tiered such that the

57:04 lower the income um the greater the support provided. This particular program would be el uh would have the lowest eligibility criteria for income. Uh and we would look to increase the renewal cycle of this program. You know speaking to kind of that sort of like chronic uh chronic need that we touched on in the beginning. The point here is that persistent need um needs consistent and predictable support and so that's why the sort of like shape and structure of this will be most helpful to our lowest income customers. The second one is an enhancement of our our existing ECC program. So this is really targeted at

57:51 those customers who need intermittent support that need urgent support. Uh so it'll remain a one-time bill credit. Um but we'll be targeting our final notice customers doing direct outreach to those who are at eminent risk of disconnect. Um so we can apply that assistance where it is most urgently needed. Um we will look to expand income criteria for this particular program to go beyond uh our lowest income customers to moderate income as well. And in order to meet the urgency with which these customers are are in need of assistance, we will pursue a uh self attestation program coupled with an audit um to ensure ongoing uh program integrity.

58:36 And of course these first two we will have budget caps that will um keep us straight with board approved budgets over time. And then the last one is energy share which um this is a program that works today. It provides same day first call resolution. Um it's a tool that our CSAs rely on to provide immediate and compassionate support to our customers that are experiencing crisis events. Um it's a it's a program that's working. Uh, an area that we could improve and that was noted by our our good works uh, consultants is that making sure that we have appropriate guidelines and training for staff um, such that we're extending an equity focused allocation of those resources

59:23 and again energy share is funded exclusively through uh, customer donations. Next slide please. All right. Um, complimentary programs. So in addition to money on bills and providing financial assistance um there are some rate neutral programs that can be really really helpful to customers. In addition to that um prepay is a great example. So we talked a little bit earlier about the um the sort of like financial impact of fees and deposits on customers. Prepaid programs can eliminate that without shifting costs on other customers. Um so that's that's great option there. Um average monthly billing this is like

1:00:08 budget billing only better. Well at least in in my mind. So average monthly billing provides that same sort of uh seasonal seasonal smoothing. So it helps our customers avoid those winter peaks um alleviating a source of financial hardship but you don't it doesn't carry the risk of a large balance acrruel. Um so that can be really challenging particularly for customers with with limited and moderate income but that also represents a liability to the utility um when those uh balances get really large. So average monthly billing is kind of a win for customers but also allows us to reduce eligibility criteria which is really helpful to customers as well. And the last one um that we

1:00:53 touched on quite a bit is categorical eligibility. Um this has been hugely successful for our program. I've you know shared some of those stats with you before uh but we need to continue to look to expand on those options um because of the precariousness of just relying primarily on LEAP. Uh but also you know we can look at potentially legislative solutions or community partnerships. The more we can reduce referrals the better our customer experience the less the overhead overhead. So that's always a winner. And next slide please. [clears throat] Uh last section is on uh customer engagement. So following the success of

1:01:38 the community table last year, Jen and I would like to uh leverage that in order to convene with our community partners in 2026 that serve limited income households. We want to strengthen coordination and collaboration there. Um these are existing communities with uh trusting constituents and so um tapping into those can really help us in a couple of ways. One um reducing access reducing or increasing awareness um but also making sure that we are doing outreach to underrepresented groups. [clears throat] Excuse me. Next one is direct customer engagement. So, uh, the the the survey that we just recently

1:02:24 completed that was really helpful in terms of kind of, uh, sussing out some things that that we had had cons some concerns on, well, we really do need to keep that going. Um, continuous improvement relies on an ongoing feedback loop. So, we need to make sure that our customers have direct channels to be able to provide that feedback um, and that we're able to make use of it through continuous improvement efforts. And the last one is a uh portal enrollment drive. So I mentioned that you know we would really like to make sure that customers are in our portal so they have the best access to customer programs. Um again it's not unu it's not unique to e webb that these customers have lower enrollment but we are not ready to throw in the towel. Um, so I

1:03:10 would also say about this, this isn't necessarily like a marketing campaign, but we want to look to ways like how can we really partner knowledgeable staff with customers so that they can be supported with things like um low digital literacy or uh you know limited internet access. So those are some things that we're going to be uh looking to push out in 2026 and beyond. That concludes my prepared comments. So, I'm going to pass it down to Greg and he's going to talk about tenant focused energy efficiency. >> Just a comment. Do does the commission want or the board want to ask questions in each segment or how how do you guys feel about this

1:04:01 >> management? I think it would be better for them to do their presentation and then we ask questions. >> Okay. Just wanted to check in. It's a It's a long There's a lot of information. So, okay. Thank you for your presentation. [clears throat] >> Good evening. I'm Greg Kellaher, customer solutions manager, and I'm here to talk about efficiency and conservation programs. Specifically, we're going to look at energy efficiency for tenants. How rental status, dwelling type, and income interrelate with consumption as well, and what this means for programs. This supports several strategic goals and themes, primarily enhancing program impact, but also the ERP, strategic use of data, and affordability.

1:04:52 We're going to walk through these topics. Define the customer segment of interest. Address common assumptions regarding energy usage. Compare these with what the data shows about housing usage and need. And then we'll share our insights and how this information applies to programs. The group where these three circles intersect faces unique challenges with high bills, limited control over their housing and financial constraints. Couple of definitions here in the context of our data. Income constraint means having received ECC energy share or lie bill assistance at that premise

1:05:39 for within the last 10 years. And high consumption is the 75th percentile and above of all annual usage in residential premises. Let's compare some common assumptions with what we see in the data. This is based on a one-year sample of e webb residential premises excluding those with PV generation multiple meters or less than 12 months of data. Number one, low limited income equals low consumption. I know you've heard this before 10 minutes ago. Data shows that limited income usage patterns mirror other customers and they

1:06:26 use a bit more energy on average by dwelling type, generally in the 5 to 10% range. This is also true by dwelling type when considering owners and tenants separately. >> [clears throat] >> Number two, tenants use more energy than homeowners. Data shows that tenants use a bit less energy on average by dwelling type than owner occupied homes. This also holds true by dwelling type when considering limited income and non-limited income separately. Number three, rentals are underserved by e webb programs. tenants, as we said, don't use more energy. And detached rentals have

1:07:12 comparable, if not higher, energy efficiency participation rates. Detached. I want to make sure you see that word. Number four, energy efficiency upgrades always reduce bills significantly. No. Savings depend on several factors, including occupant behavior. For example, a duckless heat pump might be used more and increase comfort and add cooling for someone without really saving much energy. Number five, energy efficiency is the best or only way to help. Sometimes other tools such as bill assistance or education to change habits can have a

1:07:58 greater dollar for-doll impact. Consider a duckless heat pump. Paying $6,000 to save $50 a month might make sense. But if you're only going to save $10 a month, bill assistance might be a better option. Here are four real e webb customers graphs from their November 2025 bills. A is an apartment with air conditioning. B is a rental manufactured home with air conditioning. C is a single family home owner occupied. And D is a tenant in a duplex. Guess which of these bills is limited income.

1:08:54 All of these bills are limited income. Once again, limited income does not equal low usage. Usage patterns of limited income customers mirror those of all customers. We are going to summarize what the data reveals in each of these categories. Give you a chance to take a look at those categories. We're going to go through them one by one. We lose something. >> It's decoded. We're just going to have a short pause for some technical difficulties. Please hang on.

1:09:41 >> We lost John Brown. >> Well, I got it right there. See it >> like lion this. [laughter] >> you can continue on. We've all got it on our >> Yeah. >> So, we're on tenants. What if the data reveals?

1:10:30 >> Oh, do you hear that? >> Oh, do you want to look at mine? >> I can share with John. I got you. >> No, I don't need that. >> Okay. Did you all get a chance to see those? Yeah, >> six boxes. Perfect. Housing context. First, most tenants live in apartments and plexes. They comprise 78% of Eugene rentals. Now, here a plex is defined as two, three, or four dwelling units within one building. Nearly all apartments and over 3/4 of plexes are rentals, but only about 15% of houses are rentals.

1:11:16 uh usage context. Apartments use less energy than other homes. It is also true that tenants use less energy on average by dwelling type than owner occupants. So less usage due to dwelling type and less usage within each dwelling type. The graph on the right shows that there is less usage variation between apartments than there is between houses. And of course that increased variation in houses is on the high side. Need context. Assistance levels vary by dwelling type. Customers in apartments, plexes, and manufactured homes access assistance at two to three times the rate of occupants in single family homes.

1:12:02 14% of customers in houses versus 28% top is houses by the way. 14% in houses versus 28, 33 and 36% respectively for apartments, plexes, and manufactured homes. This translates to dollars. Customers in houses have received 31% of ECC dollars over the last 10 years. ECC um c e webb customer care but they do comprise 55% of dwellings in Eugene customers in the other 45% of dwellings the bottom three bars on the graph have received 69% of ECC dollars over that same period.

1:12:55 So what does the data tell us? Apartment occupants have lower and more consistent bills than those in single family homes. Hardship doesn't necessarily coincide with high usage. Energy usage is one of but but one of many factors that contribute to hardship, but we need to recognize that it isn't the primary driver. Circling back to the

1:13:59 and robust programs already exist. Plexes, they're another 10% of dwellings and are eligible for most of the same programs. But unlike houses and manufactured homes, most of these are rentals. Energy efficiency has limited savings per dollar in apartments. However, they comprise only 28% of dwellings and bills are lower and more consistent. Here's what we're doing now today. Um I'm going to go through these these um existing programs. We have higher energy efficiency incentives for dwellings that are occupied by limited income customers regardless of who owns the property. That's heating and cooling measures,

1:14:44 water heating, windows, and we typically pay 100% of the cost of insulation for a limited income occupied home. We offer free home energy scores for anyone living in a rental.

1:16:45 and something new. We're going to create a new level of energy efficiency incentives for low middle income. Those are Alice customers, asset limited income constrained yet employed. These are customers who don't qualify for standard limited income incentives but are still struggling. So one more tier of incentives which is going to be higher than normal uh for that that the tier customers who don't qualify. Now and targeted outreach and incentives for bulk retrofits in existing multif family dwellings. Bulk retrofits may include LED lighting fixtures, heat pump water heaters, and envelope measures where applicable. Envelope meaning doors, uh,

1:17:30 windows and insulation. And duckless heating and cooling or smart thermostats where these make sense. So sometimes duckless heating system doesn't make sense, but a smart thermostat will save energy as well and much more economically. Um, and for these this targeted outreach, we will work with the city of Eugene and others to help identify these parties for outreach. This is where we want to catch these multif family dwellings at the right time or it makes sense. They don't have to close their doors and lose rent. Um, they can do it while they're doing other things. So, we can get other measures installed that will save energy in multif family

1:18:16 buildings. And now we're going to move on to budget. >> Now that we've reviewed the existing and planned programs that support limited income customers, we'd like to connect this work to the broader theme of this evening's presentation. Providing reliable and responsible service through fair, transparent, and community focused rates as we transition into the 2026 budget, revenue requirement, and customer rates. This evening marks the culmination of a six-month process that began in June when the board first outlined its investment priorities, followed by the introduction of the draft long-term financial plans and capital investments in July. Since then, the financial planning and

1:19:02 analysis team has worked closely with utility leadership to refine detailed draft budgets and update the long-term financial plans, bringing us to this moment tonight. We are now at the final stage of the annual financial planning process and are requesting board action on the 26 2026 budgets and price proposals. The proposed 2026 budget totals 487.3 million for the electric and water utilities combined, which is 2.3 million less than the approved 2025 budget. Due to accelerated capital project spending, a 2025 capital budget amendment was included earlier in this evening's consent calendar. Accordingly, the 2026

1:19:47 budget figure has been reduced from what was presented last month. The figures presented here align with the line item totals in attachment one of the proposed 2026 budget document included in this evening's board packet. And now, Adam will provide a final update on the proposed electric water prices. Thanks, T. Um, with the budget with the with the budget um and financial needs now established, we'll turn to the rate proposal. Slide, please. So, earlier Frank reviewed the three steps to the rate making process. The first one being um establishing the revenue requirement. Uh, based on the proposed 2026 budgets, the electric utility will require a 3.9%

1:20:35 rate adjustment. um in addition to the bond bill pass through and the water utility will require a 6% rate adjustment. Slide please. The second step to the rate making process is um making sure that each customer class pays their fair share of the customer costs or of the of the different costs. Um for the water utility, our cost of service analysis indicates a 5.1% um adjustment for the residential customer class and a 6.7% for the commercial general service customer class. The electric utility um residential customers would see a 4.4% increase in the three uh general service classes as shown. The cost of service

1:21:23 analysis also indicated uh providing electric service to the McKenzie Valley costs about 21% more than the in town service territory as that cost differential would support a customer class uh for that service area. If the transfer does not move forward, staff recommends the establishment of that customer class as reflected in uh resolution number 2525. Next slide, please. A key element of the third step in the ratemaking process is ensuring the costs are allocated between fixed and variable charges. Uh last month we heard the board express concerns about the proposed increase of basic charge for the electric utility from $30 to 38.50.

1:22:08 So this slide um demonstrates our longstanding goal of aligning the fixed and variable cost to recover them. The bas uh a basic charge that's below cost would result in low income or low usage customers underpaying shifting cost to other customer class as other customers within the class. High usage customer customers including the um limited income customers in that high usage uh segment would end up overpaying. Electrification can also be discouraged if um the basic charge is below cost. uh revenues can become less stable for the utility and um it can present challenges for rate design options in the future. The proposed uh 3850 accurately reflects

1:22:56 the fixed cost for the electric utility slide. This slide shows the proposed uh changes for the residential water customers. Um you'll see on the top um table the basic charge would increase by $1 per month and the cost of a thousand gallons of water uh would rise by 17 cents. The bottom slide we've provided examples of typical households low usage household um is reflected with the 3,000 gallons per month and that would be a small house with indoor irrigation only or an apartment. The current bill under that segment would be $33 per month. Under the proposed 2026

1:23:44 rates, that would rise to $35 per month until um the middle of the year when the wershed recovery fee um expires and it would fall back down to $32 per month. We've also included examples for moderate usage households of roughly 9,000 gallons per month and high usage at 13,000,000 gallons per month month uh which would represent significant outdoor irrigation. Next slide. This slide shows the bill impact for residential electric customers. As you can see, the basic charge increases $8.50 per month while the usage charge decreases. This shift represents a more accurate um distribution of fixed and variable

1:24:30 costs. At the bottom of the slide, we'll we're once again showing um low, moderate, and high usage households. So, you can see the impacts of these changes at different consumption levels. At the low end, a small single family house using gas heating or an apartment would use around 580 kilowatt hours per month. This bill would increase by $7 per month on average. Um, a small single family household represented um using electric heat would use uh $1600 $1,600 kilowatt hours would see a $3 per month increase. High usage household would see about a $2 increase. Examples of these high usage households are um a large single

1:25:16 family home or home or an electric vehicle um present in the household dwelling with multiple um occupants such as a large family or several roommates or a very inefficient um house potentially. Um we understand the commission commissioners expressed interest in how the bill uh changes would impact limited income customers. As noted, the limited income consumption mirrors the overall customer, residential customer class. The green line at the bottom shows how the existing $280 ECC bill credit, if applied equally over 12 months, would impact the limited income customers. That does not account for lie or other

1:26:01 assistance options. And next slide. This uh slide was shown uh in an earlier presentation, a similar slide that shows residential impacted different usage ranges. On the left side, you'll see the lowest usage households, those using up to 400 kilwatt hours. And on the right, the highest usage households at 1,800 kilwatt hours. The copper color bars represent residential customers overall, and the blue bars representing the limited income customers who receive bill assistance. As we've discussed the usage patterns for limited income customers closely here in the overall customer base as you can see the more electricity a household uses the higher the bills. Um the

1:26:46 average monthly bill impacts $8 or 0 to8 depending on next slide. This slide compares e-web bills um for the moderate usage households to several local and regional utilities. For the electric service, the change from 209 to $212 would keep EW roughly in the same position on the chart. Of course, we don't know how the comparators might adjust their rates in 2026 gets um which could shift our overall comparison. Uh for the water utility, the bill would increase by $2 from 46 to $48. Um which would move our position slightly. Uh however, when the watershed

1:27:32 recovery fee sunsets in July, um our competitive position would improve. Uh we've included a comparison also for state utilities. Web's electric prices remain below the Washington, Oregon, California, and US overall average based on US uh energy information administration data. This slide shows how customer care bill assistance funding has changed over time. We recognize the board's strong focus on affordability, particularly for limited income customers. As we've discussed, our rates remain costbased to ensure fairness and transparency while affordability is addressed through customer programs such as bill

1:28:18 assistance. Earlier this evening, Anna outlined how we're refining those programs to better meet customer needs. Reflecting that priority, the proposed 2026 budget includes an additional $500,000 in CC funding. Okay. >> So, it says break, but I think it's question time or not. I I know I have questions. I don't know if other board members have questions as well while we've got >> Yeah, unless you want to do a break and come back and

1:29:08 Okay. All right. We'll take a break for 10 minutes and then we'll come back with questions. 7 24.

1:39:05 Everybody, we have uh increased our panel up front so that they're all ready to answer our questions and comments. Um again, thank you for the presentations. This was really uh I was just talking to Sonia about it. This was really informative and a really uh good way to dig into certain parts of our budget. I hope this is something that we have going forward that we can uh use as a template going forward on other parts of the budget as well. um things that may jump up as as interest to the board or just to help us learn more about how you guys come up with these budgets and and do it. So, with that, we will start off with questions or comments. We'll start with Sonia.

1:39:52 >> I just have to say I am so excited about this presentation. Um all the work that you put into it. Uh, I just really feel like years of of kind of toiling with what this looks like, you you all nailed it. This is amazing. So, thank you for that. Um, you know, the the outcomes and some of the pieces that came from it um were surprising, which is great. I I think you did the work to get the data to actually explain what is going on to see what um you know we we had thoughts and expectations of what it might look like and it was different and that's okay. Um what I'm really thrilled about is that you took it the step further and said look at our customer needs and where they're at and meet them um

1:40:40 especially the lowest income people that are constantly challenged. this hits it in a way that we have not done before. And so I am so excited. I I know we had a uh a big overhaul in the EEC program when I first joined the board where we had a lot of overhead and burden to get people qualified and there was this major overhaul that I think some of you were a part of at that point um to really get more dollars to the the people and I think this is the next level of that work and I just commend you so much for taking this on. I'm very supportive. I have other minor questions about how some of it functions, but I will um let others uh give their commentary before I dig into questions. I just thank you so much.

1:41:25 >> Okay, Mindy. >> Um thank you so much for this presentation. Just um echoing what Sonia said. It was super informative and I feel like um for many years the board has been asking um questions specifically around low-inccome programs and um you've answered our question but we kind of haven't been talking on the same level. We've been talking like on different planes and I feel like this you you've definitely addressed the things that we've had questions about and clarified um some of our assumptions. So thank you for that. Um I have some like just kind of nit not nitpicky but just specific questions about some of the things that you presented. Um not that I'm challenging

1:42:11 anything but I just some clarifications. So um starting with the lowinccome things um the portal registration I just have a comment on that. Um, my dad is not lowincome, but he's elderly. And I imagine that many a significant amount of our low-income customers are elderly. And I can say that that portal registration is a pain. [laughter] There's so many portals that we're required to sign up for. And um, somebody who is computer savvy can maybe figure it out, have a password saving thing on their computer. But um I appreciate your commitment to making that portal registration easier for people who are not computer literate or who have um don't have great access to

1:42:57 the internet because it is just in general a real challenge. Um I have a question about our customers whose um maybe immigration status is not certain. Um especially now are we expecting that some people will be more hesitant to reach out um for bill assistance if they need it? >> Um so first off I I appreciate the the the topic because it's something that we're thinking a lot about. So, first, we don't require social security numbers for any of our assistance programs. Um, but that doesn't mean everybody knows that. And so, when we talk about making sure that we're connecting with uh different community organizations,

1:43:44 one, these are organizations, you know, within uh which our customers have already established a sense of safety. Um, so we can get good communication through those channels. we can ensure that we're hitting those under reppresented groups. Um so there's a lot we can do there. Great. >> Um are we assuming that lie heap is going away? >> Uh no. Um this just in. So our latest update I think came from this morning. We are anticipating that uh funding will be intact. It will be lesser than it was last year and certainly lower than it was the couple years coming out of COVID where there was some additional funding. Um, so the funding is down, but we are expecting they're they're sending out

1:44:30 the initial trunch of applications this week and so those will hit senior and disabled. Um, but it will be significantly delayed. We're anticipating that the general population will not be um getting into the queue until maybe late January. Hopefully, they'll start getting caught up in February, but we're not expecting elimination. Great. Um, another question about prepaid. So, can you explain a little bit about how prepay works? And my my question is specifically if you're somebody who faces financial challenges, how do you have the funds to prepay?

1:45:16 So, I I will say this like prepay is a program that I wouldn't say is that's not just a limited income program. That's going to be something that works for some people though not for everyone. there's lots of folks that maybe aren't limited income, but they have irregular income cycles. So, that could be a fix there. Um, with prepay, however, I think there are a couple of prerequisites that make those programs really work, and that is direct access. So, that may not be a great program for somebody who struggles to get online and connect with their account um because you need to be to stay a breast of what your balance is. I think Frank wants to weigh in on that one. He loves it. >> Yeah, Commissioner Slothburg. I think where it really has an advantage is when you have somebody who's limited income

1:46:02 with limited funds. The fact that they can pay $20 at a time or $25 at a time instead of a full monthly bill all the time. It breaks their payment up into more manageable chunks and also gets them out of the sort of the constant fees mode, the late fees, etc. So, it's it's more of a pay as you go, which which breaks this up into manageable chunks for them. >> I question on slide 55. I just want a clarification. um where you do the bill change illustrations. And my question was I I think the I

1:46:49 think what you said was somebody who has low usage, the reason that their bill proportionately is going up more than the moderate or high usage has to do with the fact that our usage charges are going down. Is that right? like the the flat the flat fee is going up but the per kilowatt hour chart is going down. >> Correct. >> Okay, great. Just wanted to make sure. >> Um I mean that does seem like a little little unfair maybe, right? If you have lower usage that your percentage of your bill is going to be higher than um somebody with moderate to high usage, but I understand why that is. >> Yeah. And people that use more do have

1:47:35 higher bills than people that use less. It's just that percent I mentioned. >> Um and then the last thing I want to say um is that on slide 57, we've seen this chart so many times with the where e webb fits in with our average monthly electric bill. And I know that um there's a you know there's a lot of pressure for us to stay in the middle or um you know we we we talk about like relative where we are to other people and I guess I just want to bring up that like here we talk about that and we're at a higher level and we're looking at the budget but like for people that pay their bill it doesn't matter that we're a little bit lower than um Seattle or you know like your budget is your budget and so um I just wanted to highlight

1:48:21 that like we we can tout where we are in all of these things, but if you live here and this is what you're used to paying, it doesn't matter that we pay so much less than somebody else because that's just what what we have to do every month. So, um that's that's it for now. I'll pass it on to somebody else. But again, thank you so much. I think that was a fantastic presentation, >> Tim. >> Thank you, Chair. Um, I just want to echo uh my fellow commissioners that have gone so far of this is the the work. This is the the incredible outcome of a lot of intention and and dedication to to such hard conversations and digging into uh uh

1:49:06 not fully realized information or not fully public information or not like fully published information. Um, I play a lot of hidden role games and you're working with imperfect information a lot like this is exactly what that looks like and trying to put thought behind it and intention behind it and uh make that leap when it's needed and in a very intellectual ways is is seen and it's here on on page and it's it is u it's great. So, I just want to say thank you. This is quite literally my day job as well. So, thank you as well. And I that's what I'm seeing here um of of supporting low-income folks directly in particular. Um I did have a just a few questions and clarifications. Um and I I want to echo what Commissioner Carlson

1:49:51 said too. I hope that this is and uh Commissioner Barski that I hope that this is the beginning of of a continued um effort uh maybe not even with just like low income but but other parts of our budgets as well. Um, and so I just I really want to commend you and and I hope that you walk away from this meeting with that that uh support. Um, I wanted to ask on page 20 um for bill assistance on both late and d uh uh providing bill assistance for folks who have been late or with late fees or disconnect fees. Um, on the right it says uh are two times more likely to have late fees or four times more likely to be disconnected. Is that in that same year in that same fiscal year or is that cumulative? Is that over 10 years?

1:50:37 What's what's the date range or or data >> data set is over a two-year period? Okay. >> So, it's over that entire period. >> Great. I just wanted to confirm that. Um in two page or on page 22, I don't know why I tried to say it like that. Um uh the one of the challenges was asking customers on getting timely response from ew. Can I ask just like clarification on on that where like what is your sense of what folks are saying of how easy or how difficult it is to get a timely response from e webb? >> Um I think that's the reason that we want to continue with our direct customer engagement in 2026. >> We can we can extrapolate takeaways in this data but we don't know until we

1:51:22 have follow-up focus groups and hear from them directly. we can get a sense over the majority feel this way. This is really challenging. Um I also found it really interesting like in understanding program eligibility. You have just as many customers saying this is the most challenging aspect as you do people saying no sweat. That tells me there's something going on there. So, um, I don't have a good answer for that, but I think that's the very reason we want to continue with our, you know, direct customer engagement on this and other topics. >> Great. Yeah, I was just curious if you already had like a preliminary thought about that. But yeah, it it just stood out to me of it seemed to be kind of average across the board. Um, so I I

1:52:07 really I really appreciate that. Um and then I I mean on this slide too, you know, understanding the eligibility requirements and then gathering the the financial doc. This is not a unique thing to e webb. I I work in rent assistance as well. This is a very similar thing across that board across medical. This is not a a a a unique thing for e webb. Um but I understand the challenge of trying to to acknowledge it and make it easier for within our system. So, um I I recognize the Cifian project that's ahead of you on on that. Um I I'm sure I'll have more questions and we haven't even like talked the details of the budget, but I I'll I'll pause there and just say like really and truly great work. This is incredible. Um and and deeply appreciate

1:52:52 it. Thank you, >> John Brown. >> Well, thank you. I'll echo all the sentiments that have been previously said. I think you get um a 10 on this. You guys have done an excellent job and the good thing is you've demonstrated that you can do that now. You can implement it just as easily. So, good for you. Um, I agree with Mindy's comment about the portal. Um, you know, I uh it's I'm I don't have a digital watch for a reason. It's so challenging. It's I hate it. And uh I'll just cut to the chase and uh hopefully you guys are going to be able to simplify that a little bit. There's a comment about um the Spanish speaking community or the people that may worry about their status. I' I've worked with uh e-web staff and others that are in that

1:53:38 community by helping them get through some hurdles and so far we I have nothing but the highest level of praise. They bring in communicators. They bring in people that can explain it. Uh some of these people have limited capacity to uh to comprehend what's going on and you do an excellent job. So, I think you're doing good there. Um, I am wondering, you know, I'm starting to become a little bit pessimistic about AMI. Um, and we talked about prepay. And so, I assume that when people are, one of the aspects of AMI was to be able to let people prepay and then go in and see where their consumption is. And so, I guess that option is currently available to people. Is that correct? That they

1:54:23 can go online. Uh, is is AMI that implemented to that level? >> Are you asking if prepay is currently available? >> Well, yeah. I know prepaid is available, but can we go online and see where they are? If I give you $200, can I see on the 10th of the month how much of that I've used? >> So, so, Commissioner Brown, um, the AMI, the metering is a piece of the technology that's needed >> to be able to do that. The other is having um an upgraded customer portal to be able to do that. Um including the potential of certain communications tools like like texting so that a customer will know when their their

1:55:08 prepaid is about to run out. And some of those tools are in kind of the finalization steps. Of course, AMI is is there, but there's a few other pieces that have to come together before we actually formally launch prepaid, but it's it's very close and all those pieces are coming together. >> Okay. And lastly, my one question I I'm sure you answered this last time. I keep wondering why every year um on our large water users, we don't have a rate increase for Wamut water, but every almost everybody else does. are we continuing to overcharge them or what's the basis for that?

1:55:53 >> So this year we um had a extensive water leak over a period of time. So when we were looking at the data there was some some issues with the consistency in their usage data. So they were showing a decrease and instead of implementing that we um deferred that for a year to avoid the rate shock of going down and then up when we have the more consistent data. So it was an anomaly that had occurred just based on their specific circumstance. >> So it's true but it's been two years in a row I think that we haven't raised there. We didn't raise them last year either, did >> um yeah, so I'm not sure the exact duration of the leak, but I think it was over that period of time that was going for a series of months. So I think it was an extended period of time.

1:56:39 >> It was our leak or theirs? >> It was on the out of their consumption on theirs on their system. >> It was it was on their side of the line. >> Yeah. their side of the >> I thought our policy I mean when my line leaks I have to pay and so I'm just curious maybe this for time for another conversation but why they're getting a pass on that uh I mean it's a private water company and you know my line leaks I used 135,000 gallons you guys charge me for it why wouldn't we charge them for that >> oh so that's a that's a separate um I guess issues for this is based on just purely the water consumption that flows into their cost of service. For an

1:57:24 individual customer, a leak's going to be aggregated with all the other residential customers since they're kind of an individual contract customer. Theirs is viewed individually. So just the anomaly in their consumption pattern. Um >> so just to clarify, they did they paid for that water. It was a leak on their side, but what we observed is that it skewed the expected volumes coming from uh from them, which indicated that they would be that their rate should go down, but we know that that consumption was an anomaly and that next year it it would very likely pop back up. So we had skewed consumption

1:58:11 data and that's why the recommendation is to hold them at zero but they did pay for water. >> So So Deborra I mean just to put it in language I I understand um they used they used more water than we thought they did. Therefore their volutric charge per gallon would be artificially low if we went by that piece of data. And so rather than decrease it, we just said that was an anomaly. Let's keep it where it is as opposed to reduce it because it looked like they were dividing their cost over over more water. So the rate would be changed. That's >> that is a better way to say what I tried to say. Thank you, Frank. >> I love I appreciate that because I I'm sure that you know when when like Venita

1:58:56 or somebody else says, "Why did my wholesale water rate go up and um theirs didn't?" And now I can have at least a reason to to say that. So thank you very much and uh that's all I have. Thank you. >> Great. Um so I already sang the praises of the process. Um couple of things that I'm really excited about uh are the new new and enhanced strategies. Uh the new chronic financial burden one that you you talked about and the financial hardship ones. I think that's that's great that we're we're looking at where we can can push the boundaries and and that was very exciting to me. Um, couple of questions. Um, when you talked about

1:59:42 the the problem of people coming and finishing out the applications, where where do they do that? Do they have to come to Rock? Do they go to uh city hall? Where is the the application process happening? Uh, so there's a couple different ways to apply. You can apply through the portal, which is helpful because you get your account authenticated, things like that. Or you can call into the call center. When that happens, we don't have a way to take in income documentation. So, we can't use categorical eligibility unless we get their application and see that they have lying. After we go through and assess who needs to be referred over to the

2:00:27 agencies, they get a phone call from either Campbell Center or Catholic Community Center. At that time, they are scheduled, you know, sometimes can be a couple weeks out, what have you, to come in and sit down and bring their documentation. So, the actual intake appointment occurs on site at those facilities. Um we also have uh a paper application that is always available in 12 months out of the year for senior and disabled to ensure that they always have ready access and they can mail that in. So those are really the channels that exist today. >> Okay. Um the the second question that I have is you know one of the slides said that that if uh

2:01:19 >> if that's right [laughter] one one of the the slides said that the assistance goes further if you're just an electric customer as opposed to if you've got all four of those. Um last fall, summer fall, the city of Eugene increased their storm water fees. Um it was a it was a discussion that we had about the fire fee and all of that. When the fire fee was proposed, there was talk of about them helping out limited income people. Have we have they come across with uh some dollars that are coming from the increased storm water fees? And if not, I've got a nice whip that I can use. >> Well, if you can get more money, that

2:02:04 would be great. Uh, but in the process of re-evaluating the the uh service fee that they pay us for doing their billing and uh renewing that contract, we did assess a more appropriate level based on their percentage of the bill that now gets passed through to them as a part of that charge. So, the city is contributing more uh towards customer care expenses. >> You don't have to give it the off the top of my head head, but it would be nice to know what that dollar figure is on a on an annual basis. Um because that was one of the things that when they were proposing the fire fee, it was

2:02:49 going to be about uh $350,000 that they were planning on contributing to low income to offset the low income. They didn't say how that was going to happen, but I want to make sure that that was kind of the grand bargain when we went in and they said, "Okay, we're not going to do it as a as a fee on an e web bill, but we are it is on an e web bill because it's storm water and I just want to make sure that that that part of the bargain is being adhered to and are we the ones that are administering that and and what is the the appropriate amount that that's doing it because that fee is raising almost $6 million." um to all of our customers. So, it it made me that that slide right there showed me

2:03:36 that how much of the other parts of the the bill are affected uh on some of our low-income people. So, >> we will follow up with the number that was calculated as a part of their um monthly billing. >> Okay. Thank you. Um I will go around for round two. >> Okay. Some of my nittygritty questions. So on the average monthly billing, it's different than the set billing because it does it adjusts every month. So it looks like the last 12 months. It's a rolling average of sorts. Is that >> Yep, that's absolutely correct. So it recalculates every single month rather than once a year. So you don't have the exact same payment, but you get a nice smooth payment.

2:04:22 >> Okay. Do customers who were on that previous set payment plan still have the option then to continue doing that or will they automatically be rolled to the average monthly billing? >> Um no. So in a grand compromise we are going to allow customers who have participated in budget billing successfully for years to remain on that program but we are not um open to new enrollments and we'll definitely be encouraging folks onto the average monthly billing. >> Okay. Um the categorical educ eligibility, you mentioned some legislative solutions. Um I know we just adopted our kind of push and and really the short session is not the place for that, but I would like to flag that as an area that we should look at. I think it's a great idea if others are supportive.

2:05:08 >> Yeah, Commissioner Carlson. Um it is something that um Jason and I are working on a number of different fronts um to gain access to the appropriate data. Um as you know there can be sensitivity around access to data at almost every level of the political world. Um, but we're looking at uh working with Anna and particularly Jason on what some avenues are so that we for very good purposes could get access to data to do this categorical eligibility assessment um quickly, easily, affordably, you know, with a really low administrative cost. So that is on our list to to >> seems like it could benefit utilities across the state and other organizations across the state that do this sort of

2:05:53 work. It's exactly I I think people expect us to be more organized and and connected than we are because of all those sensitivities. But if there was an opportunity to have a singular system that benefits everyone across the state, I think it would be in everybody's best interest to lower cost. >> Nice. Thank you. Um 52% are electric only. How does that how does that work? Really? That's surprising to me. So predominantly those are going to be apartments, some of your multiplexes where they have a shared meter, that sort of thing. >> Oh, okay. So they they are paying for water. It's just through the >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So yeah, and that was just an expression of what is on the bill, how many

2:06:39 services are on the bill, and how far does that $280 go? >> Got it. Okay. Um the cost differential um for the time. So you showed uh slide 55 on the our handout, our kind of combined handout. It has the the different bill charges and it looks like there's a couple of different things potentially happening. I just want to understand this uh graph a little bit better. So this is the total bill including the basic charge. Is that correct? Or does it not include the basic charge? It does include the basic charge. Okay. >> Oh yeah, correct. So then um it looks like there is in the proposal for the uh limited income like chronically

2:07:25 financial challenge um challenge there is some some adjustments to account for okay you have a smaller bill um but you don't since you have a smaller bill you're not getting as big of an impact because it looks like there's from my calculation in this first column with the 580 80 kilowatt hours, they would get $24 throughout the year, whereas the high um user would get $252 in these scenarios throughout the year. Is that I I just took the difference between kind of the Oh, I I guess I took the wrong difference. Sorry, I just realized I took the current versus um EEC. Can you just talk a little bit about those those

2:08:10 two differences, though? It shouldn't make a >> difference. The green line at the bottom. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much how much are we allocating? Is it the same per kilowatt hour or is it different per kilowatt hour for those chronically uh stressed individuals chronically uh financially stressed individuals? Um, so this was really just an effort to capture if you were to spread ECC as it exists today out on a monthly basis, this would be the impact because we know um the board will often ask, okay, well, how's it how does this does this affect bill assistance customers and and all of that thing in the future when we have multiple and more tailored tools? We actually will have a program that would apply on a monthly basis and you could

2:08:55 see that how it has a direct impact on electrical water charges. This was purely for illustrative purposes. >> Okay. So it doesn't say like all right if you are in this level of stress or income level then you get x amount of dollars per year because if we're increasing our you know 500,000 I'm just curious how we're how behind the scenes we're determining how much each of those different categories get. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's it's it's a fair question and one that we're really eager to start drilling into. This this presentation today was really um sharing our conceptual framework. Okay, >> we're going to hit the workshop and there there's a lot of details from what are our eligibility caps to how do we

2:09:40 want to break these these tiers up? Like that is work that is yet to be done. We're going to, you know, have some fun math to play with our friends in finance, but um this was really just a conceptual framework tonight. >> Okay. So, when do we anticipate that we'll have that framework kind of fleshed out? Will you bring that back to us or after we vote on it tonight, you'll take it and then report back at some point or do we have to vote on it again? >> So, there's um well, part of what you're voting on tonight is the budget capacity for which we can implement these things and and so that that's kind of the ask tonight. Okay. >> Um going forward, uh the timeline is going to vary depending on what you're talking about. There's some things that we're going to have ready pretty quick. So, like average monthly billing, we're in the final stages of testing and

2:10:27 things like that. Um, you know, pre prepay to Frank's point earlier, there's some prerequisites to getting those in place. throughout the year. But um as it relates to the affordability program um really with that additional 500,000 we talked about um you know the city of Eugene's funding increasing all those things that's what we need to in order to pursue these um so the the details will be working out throughout 2026. Okay. So it's not like all right when the new rates go into effect in February then we will have those programs. It's going to take some additional time to work that all out, which is fine. I understand. >> Well, we will have ECC available to our entire customer base again being

2:11:12 beginning in January. So, okay, we will continue to have resources and energy share as well. >> Great. Um, I also wanted to note that the one of the another positive of the prepaid system because I think that we still require a deposit if you're not on prepaid, correct? How much is the deposit typically? juice. >> Yeah, it's not for everybody that we require a deposit, but if there's a situation with a customer where we do feel like a deposit is needed, then it's usually two times the the average monthly bill. And so prepaid does eliminate the need for >> because if you're instead of putting it into the deposit, you can just pay it and then use that to continue the the process forward. >> Okay. Um, and then two quick quick comments on some little data things. So,

2:12:00 I did notice on page 238 of our board packet, so this is away from the low income assistance and more into the the other budget level of things, but I think we're voting on the general package, correct? Voting on all of them. Okay. So um there was a pretty significant change in the net metering rates for renewable net metering. It went from 07 cents to 039 cents per kilowatt hour. Um that's a pretty significant difference. I just wanted if somebody could talk about that change and why that's so much lower >> Yeah. >> than it has been in the past. What did that sound about? >> Um the last year we switched the we had

2:12:47 a change in the methodology proposed for the avoided to align the um the distributed generation rates with the avoided cost. We held off implementing it for a year um because there had been a dramatic fall in wholesale market prices. So the theory behind this distributed generation rate is we passed through the value of um customers generation at wholesale market rates. So there had been a spike for a couple of years that wholesale prices were high when those started falling. We kind of re-evaluated the approach and looked at instead of wholesale market prices using the avoided costs that um that's published every two years. and uh and so

2:13:32 we're with that alignment um had a reduction for um the wholesale power and then the wreck value split out so that customers that um provide Rex to Eb have the that um so customers that net meter maintain their own Rex so they hold that value so a portion of the value associated with the distributed generation is selling the power and a portion is the renewable attribute So, um, >> did did were customers in this process they were they notified that we were going to make this change to almost half of the the payback on it >> and that was part of the reason for deferring a year the implementation. >> So, they were aware of this change.

2:14:17 >> Um, yeah. >> Okay. I I just, you know, it's really challenging for me. I know that that our costs fluctuate. Typically, you think that costs go up. So, um, the benefit that they would get to do a payback on a major installation would be kind of more set. So, dropping it by half is is kind of alarming to me just because I I feel, you know, I feel for the people who made these investments now they're not going to get the payback on it. I guess that's >> part of the process. >> Yeah. And the majority of the payback would be the offsetting their retail rates portion. So I think >> customers are encouraged to size the system so they're getting that benefit of sizing it towards their actual load and not the value that's sold on the wholesale market. So if they're appropriately sizing the system to their

2:15:03 load then that values at the full retail rate so they're getting the full >> offsetting of retail cost is the oversized Got it. >> systems um >> that we've I think tried to effectively or tried to communicate better with customers to size those systems appropriately. I think sometimes they're sold larger systems >> um on the benefit using that wholesale market system. >> Yeah. Yes. Kind of something that I think we're trying to communicate with. >> Okay. Well, that's good to know. Thank you for the clarification there to help me better understand when we get asked about changes like that. And then um my last quick comment was on um page

2:15:48 269. This is just a very nitpicky little thing, but I think if if we accept the basic charge that's listed on 269, it has a it doesn't have a deletion. It just has a four. Maybe it is showing a deletion, but you can't see it because it's on the four. I just want to make sure that it ends up being 50 and not $450 for the basic charge. That's just a a tiny little >> Oh, that's transparency for you there, Carlson. >> How that works out, but let's let's not do that when we vote tonight. Okay. [laughter] Thanks, >> Frank. You wanted to talk about >> the the solar rate was was a a great question. Commissioner Carlson, I just just for a little bit of context, most of the last 10 or 15 years, it's been closer to this number. Um, we've seen a little bit of fluctuation the last couple years. And um to to Adam's point

2:16:34 really a majority of the value comes in displacing the real retail rate portion. So um yeah, I just wanted to point out a little bit of historical context. >> Thank you. >> Second round. Mindy. >> Yeah, Greg, I have a question for you just so you don't feel left out here. Um so on slide 44, the implications for the e webb programs. So something that we have the board has asked for a lot or our assumption has been that one of the reasons that um our lower income customers are paying more is because their housing is energy inefficient and we just need to offer more energy efficient programs to them or their

2:17:20 landlords and that will kind of help even out even out their bills or make it so that we don't have to offer as much assistance. But what you're in your presentation, what I gleaned from it is that's not necessarily true. And um maybe coupled with a previous presentation that we had several months ago is that if we're really looking as a as a whole to get the most bang for our buck in terms of energy efficiency, that really is with commercial, our larger commercial. There's there's a lot more um energy efficiency to be saved there if we invest there. Um, and so I just want to make sure that that assumption is right and that here you say like we already have robust programs

2:18:06 in terms of single family homes. And then the idea is that in a lot of apartments some of these things also are already there's already energy efficiency in an apartment building or multifamily dwelling. Is that true? >> I think there are a few questions. >> Yeah, sorry. So um remind me if I don't address them all. Um so number one uh commercial conservation uh our cost per kilowatt hour of savings is generally much much lower. However, we're not just doing conservation for a resource. We're doing conservation to help make bills affordable. Um we're doing conservation to save carbon. We're

2:18:53 doing conservation to help customers have more reliable equipment. Um there's a number of reasons to do conservation. So what we need to do is make sure that we have a variety of programs so that all of our customers have something available to them in order to participate. Uh so the residential programs, they're more expensive per kilowatt hour, but they're not going away. Uh there was a question in there. remind me what the other questions were. >> Well, it was just just to make sure because I feel like one of the assumptions that we've had as a board or one of the things that we've been asking for is um the idea was that one of the major ways to help people lower their bills is to

2:19:38 increase energy efficiency. And so therefore, we need to fund those programs more or offer more incentives because that is the thing that's going to lower their bills. But what I'm hearing from you is that um that might be part of the part of the solution, but that's that it's not like we have all of these dilapidated rental units and that's why customer bills are so high. >> I'm certainly not denying that dilapidated rental units exist. Um we know that's true. Uh [snorts] what we are saying is the bulk of our energy savings or the most um most bang for your buck, the most energy savings for your investment is

2:20:25 going to come from single family homes. It's going to come from those detached units, whether they're rental or not. Um, we can tell you that excuse me just for a second. Energy efficiency makes sense in a lot of places in a lot of ways. Um, if you look at me bring up seven. If you look at slide 37, um particularly A, that's an apartment

2:21:10 with electric heat. So, um there's some classic shapes for um that follow outside air temperature over the year uh for heating and cooling. Now, if you look at the single family home in C at the bottom left, you'll see this really, really large hump over the winter. Well, that apartment in A also has electric heat, but their heating load is much much lower. Perhaps they have >> [clears throat] >> uh someone above them, below them, and on both sides. So, if I took if I had $5,000 and I took it and I invested it in the in that single family home with a

2:21:57 really high level of usage, >> [clears throat] >> um I'm likely to get savings, you know, on the order of $40, $50 a month. It's going to make sense for them to do. It's going to make sense for us. It's going to be a wise investment. If I spend the same amount of money in that apartment in a I might save $5 $10 a month. Now, if I do that, I I might as well just give them $20 a month and and they would be better off and we would have that $5,000 to invest more wisely in something else. It's not that we don't want to help that customer, but we think the dollar for-dollar impact is going to be very low. So that means we're going to spend

2:22:44 a lot of money that we can't now spend elsewhere and that customer is not really going to see much benefit. So, we have to take that into consideration when we look at um what we we want to have programs available to everyone. But if we really wanted the best bang for our buck, we would be targeting the houses and any dwelling units that use a lot. There are apartments that use 10 um 25,000 kilowatt hours a year. There are apartments that look like C. um some of them we would want to target those those hey that's an apartment above a business that doesn't have anything above it that's that's what something like that looks like. So the idea is that we have a limited amount of

2:23:31 funds and we are using those to meet a lot of competing objectives and we're really doing our best to provide the best value to our spectrum of customers. I hope that helps. Yep. >> And I'm happy to Is there another question in there? >> Uh, I think that's that's good for now. >> We always like to hear um any ideas for new programs and anything um else that we can do. We're very nimble and we like to adjust our programs to best meet our customers needs. >> Thank you, >> Frank. >> I was just going to weigh in and characterize this a little bit. Um, um, Commissioner Slothburg, I think we, what you're hearing tonight is the fact that we're going to approach our programs,

2:24:17 which include limited income, energy efficiency, in a more prescriptive um, and more intentional way as opposed to just saying, well, let's do rentals. Well, rental stock is a piece of it, but as you know and what we showed is that there's very specific reasons why we want to do some rental stock and not other rental stock based on the opportunities that it creates. And so really trying to think about the limited income programs and the the energy efficiency programs as portfolios as opposed to sort of one-sizefits-all. um makes a lot more sense for the organization and for the community when we're trying to balance the investments that we make and how we use our customers money um for those purposes.

2:25:03 And so um really part of what what some of the questions now are getting into is the actual program design which we're glad you're excited about that uh and we'll be continuing these conversations around those some of those details. but think of it as more of a portfolio intentional approach as opposed to well it's just a it's just sort of this monolithic program and I think both um both well all three presentations were were intended to kind of pull that out [clears throat] >> thank you chair I was really excited for a round two because I forgot a few things in my round one so buckle up no I'm kidding um but Uh so um I wanted to

2:25:49 make a statement. We saw that chart that said or the the chart that said um who's primarily accessing the care credits and it was mainly folks who are exclusively on electric. And I'm just I would be interested in seeing what that might look not tonight but what that would look like kind of across the board not just with the lowinccome assistance program but just in general where all of our rate users are. Is the majority of our rate users on electric only? are the majority of our users on uh a mixed and just I I would find that interesting of what that split looks like for folks exclusively accessing uh with the limited income um program if and and just our our users large. So that's just a statement no expectation of an answer tonight. Um

2:26:36 I uh I wanted to talk about the portal as well and this is something that I hear a lot uh that you mention of of folks who have um challenges with electronics, folks who has challenges with access. Um that's something that I hear a lot as well. Um and uh I'm I I see with the um Care Credit I I pretended like I was going in to apply it for myself and one of the challenging is is I know my phone and I can access it really well and so I understand the challenge if I don't have that and that's that's such a high burden to to beat and also a positive is that it automatically filled out all my information so I don't have to think about that. So that's you know a positive way to address that. A con was

2:27:21 like I had to scroll a little bit to find where it was. Um so it's just navigating those really like tiny intricacies. Um which I it sounds like you already are doing. Um uh I wanted to also comment on prepay and I think um hidden element that's here are folks who are um have severe disabilities or folks who are seniors or folks who are working with case workers who the uh they themselves are may not necessarily be the one paying the bill but someone on behalf of them would be paying that bill and a prepaid would be incredible for that. Um just to be able to frontload those those dollars and say you're good, don't worry about it. that we're all good. Um, I did have a question of would prepay

2:28:08 I heard there might be a conversation of if dollars are starting to diminish or or lessen, would there still be notification of your bill is being paid even though you have prepay set up? Are there reminders that your bill is still being paid in some form or fashion? So those are really the uh uh logistical aspects that you know will delay PE prepaid for longer than say average monthly billing um because uh both you know text me text alerts will be really important as well as you know app-based access um I don't have an updated timeline on those pieces but no >> well I mean prepay in general is not

2:28:55 just you know a vanilla program [clears throat] like we can do a lot of different things. We have a lot of different choices to make around prepay and so some of the things that you're bringing up are choices that we have. Do we want to allow guest pay prepaid? Do you receive a text message and when do you what if somebody's paying on your behalf? Those are all pieces that when we built the program would go into it. So 2026 is is our year to build prepay. >> Got it. Thank you. I am extremely excited. So thank you. Um, and I'm I really look forward to the details on that. Um, I I just want to e I want to voice my strong support of self attestation. I see a lot of other utilities have this program as well. Um, and it it uh barrels through the administrative

2:29:40 process that for for a lot of folks on both sides of the conversation and from I mean basic conversations that I've had too with our utility partners across the West Coast, it has the the amount of of fraud or or problematic behaviors that happen is so minuscule that it's it's not even problematic. So, I I'd be excited to see what safety nets we're putting into to just make sure we're addressing everything properly, but also it just seems like a good idea. Um I did have I I'm concerned with this conversation around um pardon me I have to find the slide again but um uh on the implications of the e webb programs um because I think a piece

2:30:28 of what we're not seeing that's here and that'd be slide 44 excuse me if I if you want to yeah great Um, but it's it's who is accessing the lowincome support credits. Are they renters or are they homeowners? And I say that specifically because there's a a data set that was released by the city of Eugene that showed the average household income of homeowners is around $70,000 a year and the average income for tenants is around $32,000 a year. And so I say that of of the efficiency of limited savings and dollars. I I I am not an expert in this particular field of what does it look like to save dollars in

2:31:14 terms of the energy usage. But what I can say is that a savings for an apartment or for a renter just statistically based on that information would go farther for that renter and for that household than it would for a single family home or a homeowner. And a secondary aspect of that would be potentially and even permanently removing them from accessing needing to access limited income support. So we on two different financial ends would be supporting um a household. So this this one in this conversation on this side in particular has brought me a little bit of concern just to make sure we're getting a full picture of this conversation. But I um I I just I wanted

2:32:02 to express that that concern there is is is the the household income of the folks that we're supporting and and being able to provide support to as well. Um, would you like a response to that? >> I would love one. Yes, please. >> Um, two things. [clears throat] One is that we're not saying that we don't want to do conservation in multif family buildings. We want to do it where it's most effective. And one of those places, hit that new building, hit 500 units at a time that are going to exceed code by 20%. Another is what I brought up on the

2:32:51 last my last slide, which was bulk retrofits, which means um don't do the inefficient efficiency um on one department at a time. go in and do the whole thing when it makes the most sense to do that and when the owner has that willingness to do so. [clears throat] The other one I should probably stop there because you know the the other one I wasn't too clear on exactly what the question was. >> No, no, bro. I'm I I I I'm not providing a question to ask. So I just I wanted to express that thought and I'm I mean maybe I'm making a direct

2:33:36 correlation um that might be lesser but on on slide 36 I see you know the second one says tenant households on the data shows tenant households on average use 2 to 5% less energy and then the third line is e webb has a higher share of efficiency programs for detached rental properties and I'm wondering if there's a direct correlation there of there is less energy being used because higher high efficiency projects are being used in rental properties more often than not. So that's like I'm I'm wondering if there is a direct correlated line that exists there. I also am recognizing that it's 820 at night and I'm talking about a 2 to 5% energy conversation during a budget conversation. So um I'm I'm happy

2:34:22 to kind of pause my my thought there. Um >> I do have a quick answer if you'd like. >> Please. Yes. >> Um, number two, the tenant households do, this is across the board for all housing types. Uh, there is not a direct correlation between number two and number three because number three is speaking specifically to detached rental properties. Those are houses and plexus and manufactured homes. >> Thank you. Um, I appreciate the answer. I will pause there. Thanks, chair. >> Mr. Brown, >> I'm good. Thank you.

2:35:07 >> Okay. Um, I have a couple of questions. Um, on late fees and disconnects, are we using late fees and disconnect fees as a revenue driver? We do account for them in the budget but they represent the cost of uh that we incur when folks pay late or and or we have to disconnect. So they are a costbased fee. >> So as as somebody and it's been a while since I've had to pay late fees, but I have paid late fees to to utilities in the past. And it seems to me that that might be another area of I mean I'm sure

2:35:53 that that our customer care people have have authority to wave those on certain certain instances but as an area where our costs are probably less than what it actually is that we're charging um on a late fee or no. Well, well, yes, she said, but I mean, what what is a late fee? What give me an example of h how much somebody would be charged on a late fee of a of a $100 bill? >> So, a late fee for the majority of our residential customers is $5. >> $5. Okay. >> And so, we're addressing that I think in Anna's presentation, we're we're addressing that through a prepaid program where late fees would go away. And absolutely CSAs have the ability to

2:36:40 wave >> okay >> late fees for a multitude of reasons. >> So I mean I I just see that as an area where okay you know late fees and then disconnect obviously in the past a disconnect was more costly but now that we have smart meters hopefully the disconnect costs are going down. Have those been adjusted? So if there is a communicating smart meter in place, we have with SAP and with our smart meters, we have automated disconnect reconnect and there are no fees associated. >> There's no fees associated. So the only time you would get charged a disconnect fee is if somebody actually had to go out there and and turn the turn it back on. Okay, that's good to know. I was just looking at those as maybe an a resource to put towards those if if they

2:37:26 were just if we were charging more than we were we were uh collecting. Okay, that's all that I have. >> Okay, I'll let you go, but then we we really need to move on to the actual budgeting approval. >> I I just had one question. I was going to be willing to make the motions on these. Um the Mackenzie Valley pricing. So, we have to vote on prices. We don't know, you know, there's some other logistical things around um when the timing of a transfer might happen. So, are we voting is 2020 is 2525 the vote on the Mackenzie Valley pricing to go into effect in February or is that just to go into effect if the other doesn't

2:38:11 happen even if that goes in May or October? >> Yeah. So, the McKenzie Valley customers will be considered an a standard e webb customer in February. So they'll see the same rate increase that every other customer sees in the February action. The way that it's um structured is in the middle of the year if the transfer doesn't go into effect then those rates would go into effect July 1. So that would be the kind of action now is to give people enough lead time to prepare for that this is coming if this transaction doesn't go through. So we're kind of giving them heads up and being transparent but not convoluting it with doing that rate change now and then right before the transfer. >> Perfect. Okay. Uh move to approve

2:38:56 resolution. >> Hold on just one moment. Okay. >> Commissioner U. Before we do that, Deborah has we we received something in our packet regarding new legislation as far as uh declaring conflicts of interest. So I want Deborah to speak to that before we we move on these resolutions. >> Thank you, President Barski. I did want to call out this is new uh this year for the commissioners and uh folks who are attending this board meeting that is a part of approving resolution 2520 that's the budget resolution commissioners are disclosing a personal conflict of interest by voting on a budget that includes a dimminimous monthly stipen for themselves. uh that stipen is permitted and the

2:39:42 disclosure is required under state statute. >> Okay. So, do we need to declare that personally or not? >> No, this is the disclosure of voting on it. I just wanted to make sure that we called it out this year. It is new. >> There we go. Okay. Thank you. Now you can make the motion. >> Okay. Uh move to approve resolution number 2520, the 2026 budget. Second. >> Any other discussion? All in favor say I. >> I have some discussion. >> Go ahead, John. >> I have discussion um on under 2520. Um earlier this evening, I received an email from a

2:40:27 constituent, I think in your word, John, about the budget and some amendments that they were proposing. I didn't have time to to digest it, to read it, to uh to do anything, but I did forward it to Ann and she's distributed it to all of you. I just wanted to make that for the record that you do have it um and it's suggestions about identifying FTEES and things such as that. But like I say, it's it's more than I could handle because I got it right before the meeting started. So, I just wanted for the record to let that know. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, any other discussion? All in favor of approving resolution 2520 say I.

2:41:14 >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh, move to approve resolution 2521, water prices. >> Second >> discussion. John. >> No. >> Okay. >> All seeing no discussion. All in favor say I. >> I. Hi. >> Resolution number 2522. A move to approve electric prices. >> Any discussion? >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> Okay. And move to approve resolution number 2525, the McKenzie Valley pricing. Should that not go through otherwise.

2:41:59 >> Discussion. do have something for discussion. >> Yes. >> So, um the resolution states that that um rate increase will go up June 1st, 2026, but if we're in good faith negotiation with Lane Electric and it's not going to happen until the fall, are we still planning on for that chunk of time raising their rates or will we keep it the same? >> The intent would be um to only implement that if the transaction is not going through. I think if it was a clear sign that it's not moving forward, then those would go into effect. Otherwise, it's the general managers to discret and to postpone that till later in the year. >> Is there a way to codify that? >> Should we amend that motion?

2:42:45 >> So, so commissioner, our intent is to shoot for the May 1st. um if if it looks like um early in the year that that is not going to happen for one reason or another, we won't know that until probably first quarter, second quarter. Our intent would be to come back to the board um if we're going to change this, but our plan is to implement it June 1st. The only the only discussion that I would have on that one was that's a big pill if if we if that did go in I I would like to see that come back to

2:43:30 the board. If if it falls through a 20% increase on on regular people of of River, I would at least like to have the discussion of that. That that's myself personally. I don't know if I see three other head nods there. So, um I don't know what that means with this resolution. Do we table it? Would that be the best way to do this one? >> You can do that. And then if the transfer is not uh looking promising, it could come back to the board. Now, um the rates were the cost of service was done with this class broken out as an

2:44:16 upriver class. >> Commissioner Barowski, um there is no guarantee that even if this get even if the work um with Lane Electric gets postponed that we wouldn't implement this for the very purposes that that uh Deborah Hart just mentioned. These are these are recouping our costs and we've known that these are our actual costs for for quite a while and they are significantly higher than our in town rates and there's nothing that would say that we wouldn't implement these um in June even if we're looking at a fall transition. So uh that's because the budgets are built around that way and we would have to do some further analysis if we do not plan to implement it at

2:45:03 all. And I'll just I'll just come back to that. I didn't do a robust discussion on these on these upriver rates with the with a thought that we weren't going to need to implement them. And so for me, the discussion needs to happen. um whether it's gradualization or whatever um I would like to have at least have a discussion and and let let staff make their case like they have already but also hear from the board as far as how we would like to see them implemented. That's myself. I personally would love to be transparent and give as much notice as possible because I think people actually pay attention to it and then the upriver

2:45:48 people will be more engaged in the process to move the other transaction forward personally because that is the alternative. These are the two alternatives. We we find efficiencies by moving that that pool of customers to another supplier that can provide it more efficiently because they're already there or we pay additional costs. And by that I mean the customers pay the additional costs. I I like being more transparent at that upfront. I think if we table it right now we're doing an injustice to those customers. Personally, >> Indy, >> um I think if we weren't planning on doing the the transfer and this was just our our plan, I think we would have done more outreach and um more education around this issue. And I don't think

2:46:33 that we've done that because our assumption is going to be is that we're going to transfer the territory. So, I would feel more comfortable if we were going to have a resolution with an amendment or some other language in there. I don't know if we do that tonight or it comes back next meeting. Just saying that um this is a resolution based on the understanding that there's going to be a transfer and if it doesn't happen, there'll be more discussion around this. I'm not saying that the rate shouldn't be raised, but I just feel like going about it this way, if the deal fell through and we ended up raising their rates by 20%. I just don't think that we've done a great job in communicating that with the upriver folks. >> Tim, >> thank you. I would support an amendment

2:47:19 that says something along those lines. I also didn't participate too deeply in this conversation because it felt sure that a deal was going to be moving forward. But also if there is a uh more than a um if there is a concern that it won't then I think that we we are doing a disservice to the upper upper river folks. And I think um and the businesses that are up there. And I also I'm not sure I'm in full support of using it as a negotiation tactic of either stay with e webb or and take this rate or go to lane electric and not have this rate hike and and that's just not something that I'm I'm fully comfortable with. >> Don Brown, do you have any thoughts? >> I do. Um we discussed this a year ago

2:48:05 and but Kosa said 14% and we had this differential because we talked about this at quiet length maybe somebody people don't remember that uh and we had this discussion when we had our upriver meeting and uh they didn't like it but it was a it was a fact and because we talked about this the same philosophy of what we do when we charge people for elevation charges for pumping the water up the hill. I don't think this is a negotiating t tactic. It's just that it's, you know, why are we subsidizing the people there uh because it cost us more money to provide the service. I I agree with Commissioner Carlson that that um that you know we move forward and uh and I guarantee you will hear if the deal doesn't go through, but I it to me it's not a um a tactic of saying

2:48:52 you either go with Lane Electric or we're going to raise your rates 20%. We're going to raise your rates because that's just what it costs. and uh and we if if we don't if they don't pay for it, then we subsidize it. And uh why is that fair to all the low-inccome and other people? Because they're paying for a service that they're not getting. So, uh I I'm okay with the way it's written. Sonia, >> um I just want to acknowledge that we were having this discussion back in 2019 2020 time frame before the fires hit and at that point we decided to defer because there was such devastation in that area. So we had put that on hold for 5 years and I think if I recall back in that time it was a 14%

2:49:39 change and now we're at a 20% change that we've been eating for 5 years. I think we've given enough uh leeway and consideration for the impact that was had up there, but it's time to be honest with everybody about that. And people frankly just don't pay attention until you vote and you put it out there. I mean, they just don't because it's not a thing that they should pay attention to. So again, this is why I'm supportive of moving this forward. If the other deal isn't going to go forward, we're going to know. It's not like they're going to hide it behind the scenes. We're going to have ample time to be able to adjust. And I don't think that we'll I mean this is something we will remember. So we can have further conversations if that doesn't go through. >> Frank, you had your hand up. >> Yes. Um so this is not a disingenuous tactic. Um this is a reflection of the

2:50:26 true costs. It's it's been that way for a number of years. And you can just uh pretty much assume that that every time we have a service call, we're adding hours and miles of of both time and and expense. Um Commissioner Carlson is is correct. Um the initial conversation was in 2019 um and 2020. We also uh tabled it again when COVID hit in 2021 and we had another discussion at Upriver River. It was either last year or the year before. And so it it is not a a new proposal for the the people up river. Um it has been communicated over a number of years and it is a reflection of the true cost. Um

2:51:13 if um I I believe personally it's the right move to do, but I also respect that commissioners can say it's not time um and and we could we could table it, but um it has been communicated and it is a reflection of the true cost. >> Um okay. Uh and I and I understand that and I agree with that. My my issue is that we've looked at other rates in the past when water was going up higher and quicker than we thought. We we sought for gradualization and that was brought back to us with a with a proposal that was acceptable to this board. Um

2:51:58 yes, we need to cover recover our costs. I believe that that's appropriate. Um I just don't think that we've had the full discussion on a 20% increase. And so with that being said, I probably would vote against this motion, not on the merits, but because I don't feel I've had enough uh of a of a conversation moving that forward. So, I'm the motion is on the floor. There hasn't been a motion to table it. Um so, I'm looking at the other board members to see where you want to go with this. Call the question. >> Okay, so the question's been called. The the motion is to approve. Oh my, now I

2:52:45 got to What number was it? >> 2025. Sorry, 2525. >> 2525. All in favor? I two opposed. Three. So with that being said, do you want another motion or different direction I guess is what I would ask from staff on this issue. >> Then I think we have to have them redo the rates and we have to pay for that some other way >> only if the transfer doesn't go through. Well, there has to be a >> Wouldn't that Isn't there an opportunity

2:53:31 for an amended budget midcycle? It's >> the same thing as having the rates go in. But, >> President Barask, we'll we will look at our options relative to that. Um, and I'll I'll talk with staff about how we would present that to the board. There there are cost impacts, there are budget impacts, and so um we will um come back to the board with something on and best case scenario is the transfer goes through and this is all moved. And that's that's that's my that's my hope is that that we gave you authority to move forward and and bring this to a resolution. And if that falls apart,

2:54:18 then that has consequences. And one of the consequences it may be rate raises up above and it may be us looking into an amended budget or something. So, okay, next up on my agenda, I've got to get back in here because I went to sleep. Next up is future board agendas and review. Just a couple of noteworthy changes. Uh, commissioners, probably the the one um most noteworthy other than I'll point out you all have a number of executive sections and the other se sessions

2:55:03 coming up. We did um in order to have robust discussions this evening. We did move the uh Leeberg decommissioning action plan from this month to next month. That actually aligned pretty well with staff's availability uh also. And so that was probably the most notable change um that's that's in the immediate future was we moved that to January. So um other than that um we also have some discussions in the spring uh around some of the water wershed um and uh state of the watershed the plan um those are those are scheduled in April. I know Commissioner Brown was asking about the timing of that. So those some of those discussions will be in the spring. I don't have any other things to add other than it's it's out there.

2:55:48 >> Okay. Board wrap up. Sonia, >> well, I'm just curious on the the future agendas um and our executive sessions, are any of those actually solidified? There's a lot of t a lot of times that are being held on our calendars at this point. Um I'm assuming that not all of those are will be full. I don't know if Dedra >> Okay, we can get on the line, but we we can um we'll follow up on that. Commissioner, >> thank you. >> Y Dedra's mic light up. >> Oh, Dedra Dedra can respond. >> Hi. Um yeah, it's Dedra. Uh so I am hopeful after the executive session next week on the 9th that we will be able to

2:56:34 solidify um the held dates on your calendars for um general manager transition and get that firmed up and and resolved for you. >> Other commissioners or wrap up? >> Yes, Commissioner Brown. [clears throat] I think we all know what a filibuster is. And you know, that's when somebody just takes the mic and then you just keep talking and talking and talking. For those of you that don't know, John and I have a little sidebar about whether or not he convenes a meeting within the time frame that's on the budget or not. We're within two minutes of it. And if we go three minutes, um he's it's going to cost him a big huge expensive dinner. And so I could sit

2:57:19 here and talk for minutes because [laughter] but >> I I I do want to take a serious moment and say uh I know this is your last meeting, John, and I know that it's fun hurting cats and I'd just like to acknowledge your leadership over the last year and uh Mindy, your co-leership. I would like to thank both of you for doing what I think is an exemplary job and the way that this board functions and works. And it's because you've got the Gavl and the and the vice gavl, so to speak. And so thank you very much for that. I really appreciate you tolerating me. How much time do I have? Another 30 seconds. Um but anyhow, thank you very much. And uh I I'll end it with that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um anybody else?

2:58:04 Really quickly, I think this is my first time on the board where we haven't like we've had a split vote and um I just want to say that I appreciate everybody's um the conversation that we bring to it and the respect that we all give to each other. So, thank you for that. >> Yes. Thank you. Um and thank you, John. Uh and thanks to the board for allowing me to be president this last year. It's been uh fun being in leadership uh being able to interact with the city uh in in that role has been very rewarding. Thank you to Frank and staff for uh working with me to and Mitti to help set these agendas. They do most of the work. They

2:58:50 send it out and we uh we look at it and go, "Looks good to me." [laughter] Uh so, thank you for all the hard work that staff does. Sorry we threw a monkey wrench into your uh resolutions, but that is democracy and that's what you that's why we are here is to help steer this vote. And John, I've got 30 seconds left to go. >> I know this isn't fair. This is totally not fair. >> I can I can honestly say now this is not one of those boards that rubber stamps everything. This will be the example that we use for the next five years to say, "Hey, remember when you didn't approve something?" >> Yeah. >> Hey, John, did I talk long enough? >> I think I think as all we got to do is get it timestamped at 8 8:45 in one

2:59:36 second. We're good. >> All right. With no other discussion, I will adjourn the meeting at 8:44 p.m. Have a good evening.