Springfield City Council — October 19, 2020

0:08 good evening everyone um i would like to call the work session to order with roll here and thank you it looks like everyone is in attendance and the first item is going to be the independent review of the 729 20 thurston protest

0:53 um with nancy go ahead yes good evening counselors um i understand and we do have a very full agenda this evening so i won't take much time introducing um rick because um if he has a very uh comprehensive and impressive resume and biography and i encourage if you haven't taken the time to look at the packet and review that to do so and also the public to do the same um rick has had a lot of opportunity to do these types of investigations after various events um including the riots in ferguson missouri he also completed a review of the

1:39 stockton police response to the bank of the west robbery and hostage taking so um he has a wide um and impressive um experience so with with that i'm going to let um him do the talking and talk about uh his investigation process and methodology um what that entails um it's a lot more than just looking at video footage although that certainly is a component of it and then um take any questions that you may have so that'll be rick thank you nancy and um thank you council members for for seeing me this evening i guess i need to share my web yes please we'd like to see you sir

2:24 thank you talking post hopefully i'll assume it's there since i can't see it you can see yep perfect so um the resume is my resume describes what i've done um more importantly i think what you want to hear is how i do these things so i've been doing these critical instant reviews across the country for about seven and a half years now and the way that i approach them either as part of a team or individually is you've got the incident itself on the 29th um but i'm going to date myself here i'm going to do a paul harvey and it's what's the rest of the story with the focus on not just the incident itself and the use of force but how do we take that information

3:10 and that event and look at the opportunities for improvement we approach these very much like a professional sports team you can pick whatever sport you like or college sport the best of the best look at the game film to figure out how to do it better next time so not only looking at the the open source information that i have that be all the youtube posts the things are available to the general public but really taking a deeper dive into all the processes that led up to it uh the incident itself and then anything done after the fact so there's been a request made for information to the city attorney on things that i'm looking for and basically drilling down into what was the planning of preparation for the incident

3:55 um how is incent command managed what was the direction to the line officers who was in charge in the field um what were the supervisors directions from from the executive staff we'll look at your department policies your strategies your tactics the type of training that the officers have in use of force the type of training the officers have and command staff although through command staff have in crowd management whether it's parades all the way up through protests um crowd management covers all that and then looking at you know what what were the communications between the department the city the city and the residents the department of the residents the department of protesters and taking it and putting it into an

4:40 entire package to tell a story and in doing so looking at not just again the the video that has gone on to youtube and open source but really what's the rest of the story what's all the behind the scenes portions of that uh covet is kind of restricting as you know i mean you're here at your homes it kind of hampers a little bit about what i do it's it's really hard when you go into a city it's really easy to get a flavor for your town by just talking to community folks eating at your local restaurants to kind of get a feel we can't do that now so we have to rely on other ways of doing it so kind of slow the process down a tad um and kind of limit me just a little bit but i'm i'm confident that working through the city manager and city attorney that we can figure out how do i best

5:27 meet people online talk to the community get information from them what you end up at the end of the day is a report that will go to the city to the city manager and city attorney in a draft form uh that's given to them to fact check um not necessarily to discuss opinions or recommendations or lessons learned but to make sure that i i've understood the policies correctly i've got the timelines right that i don't miss something on the factual end of it i also have what i call a new surprise rule or no ambush rule there's nothing that will be released to the city manager and city attorney that we haven't already discussed there'll be no surprises to them and therefore no surprises to the chief it really is an interactive process uh it's not and i gotcha process but

6:13 really looking for not until they blame but to establish cause how do the things happen the way they happened in the process and and along the way i i don't know what i don't know so i become a very annoying five-year-old asking a lot of why questions i prep the city and the the agency itself the police part itself it may seem like i'm asking a lot of questions that are obvious to them but it's just helping me to understand what not only happened on in july but really how does the organization work how is command structure work how do their policies work um so most people think it's just a quick look at the video and render an opinion that's not really in the city's best interest you really want to look for ways to how to how do we improve um our performance as an agency just

6:58 like we would if we were doing something on you know some sport or some some artwork or something that we do timeline wise the goal is to to get this done within the contract period i'll keep the city manager and city attorney advised of my progress we'll get regular progress from porcelain will react sometimes we can go a little bit faster sometimes we get bogged down either through some technological glitch or something that i'm looking to get that nobody thought of might need um so sometimes the information requests take a little bit longer than expected that's kind of the generalities of what i do um more importantly i thought it'd be give you the opportunity to ask questions you know i do these all the time so i kind of just blaze through it but i really want to find out from you wait what your

7:44 thoughts are what your questions are both now and in the future i have uh leonard steer counselor steer go ahead thank you uh thank you counselor missionary rick thanks for that report i wanted to find out you were saying that one of the things that you review are the instructions and the commands that were given from higher up in the department during the demonstration are there audio records are there texts what kind of what kind of records do you review to put that together anything that's available to me so i don't know exactly because i haven't i don't know what's out there yet um so i'll ask the agency basically in an instant like there's called what's a commander's intent so the commander's intent will tell you what their expectations are in

8:29 the directions um one of the standard ways of doing this is through an incident action plan so that request has been made for the incident action plan also for any communications that are not privileged that i might be party to or be able to look at uh in the process so we we look for all that including commands are out given out in the field thank you i see you go ahead merrily sorry i'm not on camera you wouldn't hear me at all no uh a question rick how how do you set up interaction with uh

9:14 the parties or the the community that was involved how do you go about setting that up um well it's that's a really good question because we haven't had to do it this way before uh normally it's on site done through uh the manager's office the city attorney's office to do small group meetings this is gonna be a little bit different because um we've gotta figure out how to do it electronically right i'll work with the city manager whether that's a large group meeting uh whether it's small group meetings but it's whatever that and working with her and her staff is that that we feel is in the best centers to get the greatest amount of input um in the shortest amount of time without sacrificing information and experiences do you do i guess you do both you

10:00 do both one-on-one and possibly in a group setting um each review is a little bit different um we have done some one-on-one in the past most of them are done in group settings based on um you know the the special interest of the group whether it's the neighborhood association or for example sometimes we'll meet with um aclu representatives there might be a business association involved we're meeting with the business association so that's the parts i don't know because it's i know i don't know that so it's a matter of trying to figure out what's the what are the best small groups to meet in that we get the information that we're looking for okay thank you um so rick if i get a quick question too and sherry i got your hand up

10:45 if you don't mind um i'd like to ask a question thank you so rick i think what is uh and i have to confirm with nancy but i think would be very important and part of your work here is other than than finding out or getting to the root of what the issues are and and i believe hopefully you were charged with some suggestions on uh resolution to those issues so they don't come back you know some works work throughs on those but i think i want to make sure that you are available for a literally a a question and answer period from anybody in the public not just the people that were there

11:30 but if there's citizens that are curious as to okay tell me about this so so because i think you know this the whole city is paying for you and i think that it's important that all the citizens the taxpayers have that ability to make that connect with you and it may be owners but i have to check nancy is there something in there that will allow for that uh yes counselor patientary we made a provision in his contract to uh conduct a community forum and you know i i would envision doing something very similar to what is happening tonight where rick talks a little bit about how he conducts his investigation and then takes questions comments from people online

12:15 and we can moderate through that um might take some time but i think it's well worth the effort we don't have a date and time yet but we will make sure that it's widely broadcast i think that would go a long ways and rick you're you assume that's going to happen are you going to you have plans for that you've done that before absolutely okay and i'm sorry for jumping ahead of you sherry go ahead no problem so um you're looking specifically at this incident that happened on july 29th my question has to do with uh is there going to be a broader um you're going to bring back to us some changes that we might look at for policy and procedures that were part of the reason why this

13:01 incident i mean what i'm asking about is they're going to be for the ramifications from this incident investigation we're just not looking at this incident but we're looking at kind of a overview of how we got there and as joe had mentioned how we could avoid it in the future yeah so uh great question what i do is i compare that's why i look at training and policies and all that and command structures and i compare what um that just happened on the 29th but how springfield is structured and manages these i compare those two best and promising practices in the us and canada and kind of benchmark off of those to look for opportunities to improve

13:46 we're always looking for that so my expectation is we're going to find something that needs some modifications or some additional attention that could be something you're doing really well uh that we need to do more of it and then there might be some areas where there's policies that the department or trainings the department may not be aware of that they could avail themselves of the one thing in life is we know what we know we know what we don't know but we don't know what we don't know and so i'll bring to not just in this report but the pd into springfield is what are some things out there going on that you may not be aware of as promising practices that may fit within your community so that's the goal of going just not just about the incident itself but looking broader

14:31 uh for future events and and again trying to how do we perform uh improve performance even if we did a really great job how do we do it better the next time so just to follow up on that um i read you provided some training some books and things are you available or would you make available to us suggestions who of who or how we might uh you know where we get those materials who might be able to present those materials to make improvements absolutely i can do that okay thank you sean i have you all right thank you thank you joe um so rick just a couple of questions you met you mentioned um you know confidential or protected communications might be stuff that you

15:16 would not you know evaluate um i guess is that something that normally comes up like we're not we don't have material that we're holding back from you right no no you're not um i'm just not familiar with all the confidentiality clauses in your personal actions or personnel files or background files there are certain things that are protected i might want to look at that i may not either have access to remotely um or we might have to figure out a different way to look at it each state has laws and confidentiality particularly when it comes to personnel records and or discipline records okay so so it sounds like something that you like if it comes up you're going to work work with nancy and something will get figured out so you can see the whole picture of information

16:01 correct correct and it may be um that we have to try out some live way to stream it so i don't take act until don't take um possession of those documents i just don't know because i don't know what i'm going to find that that that's perfect um when we get the report or is is it going to come with a like you're going to come come with some stuff we did good stuff we have to learn from is is it then on are you bringing sort of remediation actions for issues or is that something that you're gonna work you're gonna get just give us the information and it's up to us to remediate if if uh identify areas where improvements could be made i'll also give recommendations on how to do those um major detail significant detail if we've got those or recommendations to go

16:47 somewhere to do whatever whatever we find because again i don't know what i'm going to find yet but just leave you hanging with hey this is this is something you need to work on without options of how to work on it okay and uh i guess the other question that i have is like you did a good job of describing that the event actually has it before the event and the after the event are you looking into you know i guess other reports of like how the pd uh followed up on i guess other sort of like mini incidences or other sort of a crimes that happened during the event that was are you just narrowed down in the specific barricade if you will does that make sense it's the bigger event okay

17:36 so we may get feedback back saying hey look you got this big event there were other reports of crimes how did you follow the ball correct it could lead um okay and then um i'm curious if you just have any general opinion about like there's a lot of video content and i know that that's a product of where we are in 2020 is is that is this your first time dealing with that much video content what's your sense of is it helpful not helpful there's a lot out there oh no it's not the first um that's that's a a lot yes you're right i can't emphasize how much is out there um and what i try to do is you temper that with what's that's what's been chosen to be posted um and so you're looking at what's the rest of the story

18:22 that's the bigger piece the piece that we see on the public side of it you can piece that together it's what's going on outside of the camera view because almost all of its camera view uh and it's also learned um when you see that much video for an agency understanding that that much video is going to be pushed out it just happens everywhere now that's just common i think it's the new changes based on that so yeah uh just two other quick things and i think these are more for for nancy my preference would be to start with a you know as transparent as possible with the community about this right like i know that there's you know other issues that we gotta work through and when you think about the community forum remotely i thought the holiday farm fire group did it really well as far as how they formatted it and how they

19:07 reached out to everybody okay julia newton thank you thank you sean uh counselor steer you're up to bat thanks joe um you just said something really interesting rick which is that you're just trying to piece together what's happening outside of camera view how do you sort of reverse engineer that um you got the camera review it's crime it's crime reports and community conversations and interviews of reading the interviews with the officers once that were already done to find out kind of the outside piece and and members of the public presumably right right

19:56 uh rick i've got a question if uh merrily did you have anything i don't see you but i didn't want to jump ahead of you okay i think she's good not yet okay thank you so rick i got a question um it's down in the weeds just a little bit but i'm i'm really curious how far down in the weeds you're going to get because i want you to um but specifically you've mentioned training and so what i'm uh what i'm looking for is well actually number one is that i assume you're going to be looking for trends sean sean van gorden or councillor van gorden mentioned that there's other incidences out there that may be depicting trends or cultures and so what i am very interested to see if

20:43 if you can identify a culture within the agency and then realizing and counselor more kind of hit on it as well as far as these issues are you are you going to look to identify some systemic problems that that create those those cultures and frankly they go into next generation and next generation of officers that don't even realize that they are in a culture that has some systemic problems and and so that's that's pretty extensive and that's a lot of work but it but from my perspective that that really is is where a lot of problems lie within law enforcement is those uh systemic cultures that are pre-existing

21:29 to officers being hired so that's and i've got a two part to that so go ahead and answer that one so uh what if i identify anything away that's kind of outside the scope of work the city managers to say hey listen it's outside the scope do you want to keep going direction or in the report i can make a recommendation here's the review here's the review of what i'm doing here's some additional follow-up that the city may want to consider in the future um the one thing i can tell you um that that i try to do these reports is

22:16 try to um get the agencies to move into um just through the through the reports and this is to try into learning organizations to where they're constantly testing what they do and learning from events so we get better next time versus just saying hey we did it right this time we'll do the same weather next time and part of that learning evolving organization is that you're critical of yourself constantly trying to change uh we're kind of hard sometimes for an

23:02 agency um but kind of it's fine and discussions occur with the city management city tournament how much deeper do you want me to go on this it's kind of outside the scope you want to stop here and look at it in a different way thank you it's a significant time delay here we're having some wi-fi issues which is not uncommon um and so my second part of that is you you

23:48 indicated that you are um going to look into the training and uh and again this may be in the weeds but are you going to be able to you know you're going to look at training records i assume and with those training records are you going to be looking at their their field force training their defensive tactics training their use of force training and then and then to see if there is is any tie-ins as to their you're going to look at the curriculum of those specific courses are you not and then if there's tie-ins to specific instructors in those courses so if you see issues that are rising out of some sort of use of force are you going to be able to look at

24:33 those training records to see if there is a commonality with those instructors that are providing those courses and to to look at that angle because the officers are going to respond how they're trained and it may be how they are trained is where the problem's at you may uh you may have to turn your camera off for us to be able to get your

25:43 did anybody else get anything because i i didn't i i've got i've got nothing no nothing i'm not getting anything it's done rick's in so there's a possibility that i don't know if he's got the invite available that he could could uh log off and log back on into this meeting i think it's important that we we get what we want so i let me interject here just for a moment counselor as well please please what's that is techn technology maybe it's a wi-fi issue to answer your question uh counselor visionary um

26:29 we hadn't specifically gone that deeply in the scope of work to do a crosswalk between training who conducts training and then who is subsequently involved in the use of force um that's that doesn't mean to say that we couldn't do that i'm just being mindful of um our budget and i would i'm prioritizing um obviously the training is important i also want to make sure that we get uh at least one community forum um if not possibly two depending on how how many people are able to go attend to the first one and there might be some smaller group things that we may need him to do so um i think as we

27:15 proceed through the investigation and if rick tends to know some commonalities or some flags that are coming up for him then i would trust him to to address those with me and then we could adjust accordingly and i'll come back to you with that okay i just wanted to throw that out there because i think um systemic issues start at the very core levels and at the foundation of building officers up for street ready and that i just want to see to make sure we're getting a look a close look as to um how the officers are trained how they make the maintenance training and if there is a deviation that is and it's not i'm not suggesting or

28:01 saying that it's what's happening but there could be deviation that's occurring over time that is uh away from standard practices or or acceptable practices or current current trends in those areas i just want to make sure that that is not where there's any failure and i did see uh steve mo go ahead cost is important but it's it's more important that the public hear what he has to say because they need to trust us they need to know that we are doing the very best we can to get to the bottom of this and when they can't hear him they can't do that conservationary i believe he is back rick are you able to speak

28:53 looks like you're still having problems with it so rick i don't think we're able to hear you at least i'm not i'm can you hear me okay now we can hear you hear you now yeah hello

29:40 we can hear you are you hearing us well not based on the technical definition oh okay counselor we're texting him to see if he can call back in thank you thank you

30:51 so can he hear us i i can hear you can you hear me okay oh yes there you are i can hear you can you hear me joe are you on there we go yeah i am it's just sketchy still i think the question that that i asked of you rick was was answered by nancy in a sense that it's a little bit out of the scope of the contract that you have but if you're starting to see issues that are leading you in that direction you would have done you would advise her immediately and we can look at where we want to go from there but we don't want to ignore anything that's correct that's correct sounds good does anybody else have questions of mr brazil

31:40 go ahead sherry i'm just wondering if we have a beginning date when is when is he actually on board and beginning the process and how long are we expecting before we get a report i've already started um so you have me under contract and i've already started with um data requests and information uh the goal is to complete it within the contract now we're hearing two of you an echo yes sir sherry i think basically what he's saying is he he is he's working now

32:26 already but um he's going to get it all to us and the contract uh expires on january 31st of 2021 but i think the intent is to get it you know before that right okay thank you it would be nice if we could see i guess a timeline of when um when patrons could expect patrons citizens could expect that they might have an open forum meeting or you know that kind of thing so maybe that would be one of the things we might expect to see relatively soon okay so um anyone else with their hands up merrily do you have anything i don't but i i agree with steve's

33:12 comment earlier that i think it's really important um to take care of that and make sure that you know if it ends up costing us extra money it ends up costing us extra money but we need to we need to make sure that we get this entirely covered yes definitely cross the t's and dot the eyes absolutely yep uh okay i think we're good to move on correct head nods yes yes nodding all right thank you very much rick we appreciate uh we you appreciate you meeting you and answering our questions and um go forth and do your best sir thank you very much have a great evening you too

34:08 is the uh where did it go here regarding the merrell vic mirror vacancy process mary bridget take it away uh good evening council it's mary bridget can you hear me okay yes yes very great great okay um i'm here uh before you tonight to um talk about the mayor of vacancy process and i just want to frame up the conversation a little bit here in terms of time because i know you have a busy meeting uh coming up so we have some time reserved in the work session to talk about the vacancy process then there is some time in the regular session to come back to this topic what i was hoping to do um first in the work session is spend some time talking about process

34:54 and answer your questions and then save the regular session uh for voting and deliberation um having said that if we run out of time in the work session and you still have questions or we're still not aligned on the type of process and voting you'd like to do tonight or next steps then we can definitely take that time during the work session to do that um there's no uh reason to rush or feel like you have to move forward without feeling comfortable about what next steps are and then before i really get going on all of the um technical stuff i just want to acknowledge that i think this is a really um challenging thing to do for the council and kind of at the end

35:39 of a hard year another hard thing to do so i've been impressed how you've all handled it so far and i just wanted to um acknowledge that so turning toward um the process um oh and then one other thing if the council does not come to a decision tonight to appoint an interim mayor you'll notice on your agenda we have a temporary change to your operating policies and procedures to appoint what we call the council president pro 10 um to assist councillor pissionary while he is assuming the duties of mayor in the very short term so we do have a fall back um if we don't get to a decision tonight

36:24 about interim mayor and that would be someone to assist if he's absent or to help with the agenda review meetings and that kind of thing so that's the other item that's on your agenda tonight and i figure we can just kind of get through this and answer your questions and see if we need to address that or not so as i mentioned we are here tonight to talk about appointing an interim mayor um we have uh the council's already discussed this determined they wanted to choose from amongst the council and four counselors submitted written answers to questionnaire that's part of your packet um i will note that counselor ben gordon was clear and met in his materials and that he's more interested in what i'm calling the next

37:09 term which is the term that starts in january um the way the timing of this is and looking at the terms um where the current term is the term that's now into january 2021 and then in january 2021 a new term starts um and that's an opportunity then also to appoint a mayor or uh to can to have the same person could do it but the council needs to make that appointment in january and that's also a time when you'll appoint a new council president and then another thing to consider is that choosing amongst the council also creates a counselor vacancy potentially and really the

37:54 details of that depend on the particular ward where the vacancy is because your terms are staggered and each of you have particular things um about that award so um i can um pause now if anybody has any questions or items for discussion that they'd like to talk about now thanks joe so my understanding is we have two things to resolve here tonight the first thing is procedure on whether we're going to resolve the question of who presides over the

38:40 council for the rest of the year and then and then what else we're going to decide and then after we've decided that then we actually talk about the candidates is that correct that's correct i recommend that you sort out the procedure like you like you stated and then talk about the candidates and then also there's a particular voting if you do get to a vote tonight but i'd like to talk about that too before you get into voting that that being the case thank you mary bridget i would like to suggest that we limit our discussion tonight to the remainder of this year i'd like

39:26 to in the interest of fairness allow the new counselor in ward 3 after the first of the year to help consider who is going to succeed whoever the mayor is for the rest of the year so uh sean followed by well counselor van gorden followed by counselor moore um a hypothetically married bridgette do we i'm just trying let me think about the question i'm asking so if could we as a council um i feel like we've done this in the past meet prior to the first of the year and actually have a discussion

40:11 that is um i don't know why means the right term but i vaguely remember us inviting an elected unelected counselor to the table to help get to a decision to help from a time from a time frame perspective could we do that yeah that's a great question and i think actually counselor woodrow might be able to assist with this i believe that um she participated in discussions um when uh mayor likens uh became county commissioner and she at that time i believe was um was elected but hadn't taken office yet that's that's correct i was i was elected in may and had not taken office because i wasn't supposed to until

40:57 to be sworn in until january um but when sid got um council lichen got mayor like and got voted into commissioner then councillor simmons step back and put me at the table for the applicants and the discussions the interviews for incoming there were two incoming spots at the table for counselors and i was involved in those in those discussions uh for that yes um yeah and i and i know we're talking process here but i think being able to have a broader like if we get into it in the next session and having a little bit of a broader discussion about like to kind of

41:42 arrive at something would make probably make sense but my turn would be um that it the longer we wait into january right like at some point we have to resolve this you know so if you know we push it too far into january then we're then we're chasing the budget and then you know that we're not gonna have a full a full crew here until i don't know when so if we if taking uh leonard's sort of view that we have the material right like so we can get if if we end up in a place in november maybe there's a structure we could for us to begin to hash this all out

42:29 john i think actually we have that that first meeting back in january it's like the third or fourth that we could probably put that on the agenda right then sure um if we take if i could be i would be okay with that if we take it if we cut sort of take the take the material we put together right now and just sort of slide it all the way you know uh in into january so we don't have to just re reproduce the work if you will well as long as we don't slide my questionnaire into january because 68 of the public voted me to be a counselor award six starting in january and that's my intention okay um any uh

43:16 sherry go right ahead okay am i i guess i'm unmuted um so we have been two months without a mayor appointed by this council and we have approximately two months left until the beginning of the year a little less than that or more than that um and i feel like we've been dancing around this whole subject putting it off and i was having difficulty trying to figure out why but then i started figuring it out that for instance for sean to be appointed for the short term this year he would have to give up his council seat with no guarantee that he would be

44:01 then appointed for the two years so i understand why he wouldn't want to be considered for the short term for the year 2020. joe on the other hand is going to be appointed as he's going to be foreign in to his seat in 2021 as is leonard as is um who's the other person is it mary lee no no not me i know it's my all right jerry the new sherry yes i'll get there anyway so i'm thinking well so we've been i guess i've been seeing this as a uh the interim mayor as being for the full two

44:48 years plus this time and that's not obviously how many of you are looking at it so if we just take the you know if i start to look at that then as only this remaining 2020 year that's all we have left we have a choice to make either we are going to appoint somebody or we are not for the 2020 year and then the 2021 year is a whole nother issue that's and you know make a decision about that person obviously hopefully you'll be ready to appoint somebody for 2021 for that two-year period but at this point in time we're running with and a council president

45:33 who is acting as mayor and i don't understand why we cannot make a decision to actually appoint somebody and if we do um councillor van gorden has indicated that he does not want to be considered for the short term so that takes it down to basically three counselors who put in an application i'm assuming that uh counselor prisoner counselor stayer and myself would be the people who would be considered for the short-term two-month two-and-a-half months that we have until the end of the year so i would like to really put us on the spot and say we either vote to appoint somebody or we say okay we're just going to slide for the rest of the year

46:18 we need to make that decision joe uh merrily followed by counselor steer i i i following up on what sherry said um the more i think about it we have six weeks left of 2020 essentially because december is break it's a break for council we basically got six weeks and i think probably three of those at least our interviews with our commissions and committees uh you know filling in um gonna just i'm gonna go out on a limb right now and and you guys can can throw it at me if you want to um and say that i don't see any reason why we

47:03 can't just leave status quo as it is for the moment and uh i haven't thrown my hat in the ring so i would self-nominate for the council president pro tem and let everybody else take care of whatever business they want to take care of but i would be happy to do that since i don't have a hat in the ring for the for the other um and leave it status quo and decide for january and i dared i there i put it out on the table so and uh i think it was counselor mo was after that or counts for steer either okay oh counts for van gorden oh so leonard um some of this sounds like deliberation maybe we just

47:49 wait like because then we're off i don't know if we're technically on the topic from a process perspective thank you so maybe we have to hash this out in the next you know in the next regularly scheduled episode yes we're close like i don't think we're that far off we just need time to have a discussion in the right avenue i i think this discussion really is best before the general public open meeting council meeting even though people are already watching this but i i really do believe that this type of conversation is best when we have the larger audience and people are sitting in on us i i do but i'm not i don't want to cut people off but i'm just i think we're bordering on on

48:35 deliberation mary bridget do you have a recommendation how we can move forward so um thank you thank you counselor missionary so it's 6 51 now to 6 52 so what we could do is if the council would like you could enjoy during the work session resume this discussion uh i think it's under might be under council business later in the meeting councilor woodrow could um then address her uh point for the um city council president pro tem and you could have further discussion and deliberation about what you would like to do then that sounds good to me that i think we should put pick this up in the next session and i think we should i i would

49:20 like to address the mayor issue followed by the council president um topic at that time anybody else got head nods we good sounds good all right letter does you good all right so i think i think we're good mary bridget and nancy neil and aj to conclude the work session and get back on zoom or online in a few minutes for the regular session unless staff has any other input or mary bridget no input from me i'll be ready to discuss it in the regular session uh steve go ahead before you adjourn

50:06 i want to mention this on the independent review when rick was at his name was speaking we couldn't hear i don't think there's an audio recording of that if somebody would ask him to write some notes about what he said because i'm really interested in hearing what he what he was trying to say to us if you do those notes get to us i would appreciate that i know the public would too that's all thank you steve it sounds reasonable to me um if we got the rest of the council or at least a consensus that that we would like to see what he had to do say on those responses would be great yes all right sounds good nancy did you get that i did um i don't know if people you know it's

50:51 kind of hard to recollect recollect from memory on on responses to questions directly but i will have him uh do a written summary of how he uh his methodology how he approaches this basically his talking points for tonight let him do the best he can because right now we have nothing okay well our questions should be recorded yeah the question should be there and then when he's here he might be able to you might be able to trigger in on what his answer was okay we'll do thank you so we'll see you all in a few minutes thank you

57:17 we'll see how it works leonard moved he's like he's like i'm on this side now i'm a totally different leonard so does your mom call you len like where does the no no that that was a complete surprise to me my dad's name is len i never really i never really had to worry are you officially junior no they to to save me from that they uh

58:02 they gave me a different middle name but we still see him as a junior yeah well you can if you want all right aj you here and merrily let's see you're here and oh we got gary moore she's gonna try so far so good

59:30 we're ready counselor pictionary when you are oh thank you neil um so i would like to call this uh regular meeting council session to order with roll call councillor van gorden here councilor mo here councillor moore here councillor steer here councillor woodrow counselor woodrow can you hear us counselor woodrow

1:00:26 counselor pissionary here so i would like to uh commence with the pledge of allegiance pledge of allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation as we begin our meeting tonight i would like i would like to ask members of the audience who are joining us by phone

1:01:12 or online to please keep yourselves on mute until you are called to provide public testimony there are two times designated for public testimony this evening first we will have public hearings which will be a time for anyone to speak to the specific items listed on the agenda after the public hearings conclude there will be time listed as business from the audience if you're joining us online with a tablet smartphone or computer and wish to speak either of those times please use the chat window it looks like a speech balloon on the upper right corner please send a comment to the organizer with your name and not mailing address actually we're changing that to your award and the subject you would

1:02:00 like to speak about you can select the organizer at the bottom of the chat window i will call on you when it is your turn to speak for people calling in by phone only you are in listen mode only and cannot be called upon the order of public testimony is as follows anyone in person in the council chambers you will be notified anyone who has submitted a chat and anyone who has submitted email in advance if there is remaining time neil ledotti will read emails into the record that being said next item neil also your next item is the consent calendar

1:02:48 well actually uh merely i think uh counselor moore wants to pull some items off the consent counter go ahead okay okay i'd like to pull ordinance number one um an ordinance to adopting the report of the city engineer and forming a local improvement district for the installation of sanitary sewer in crest lane and also ordinance number uh two which is an ordinance amending section 808 000 through 8016 of the springfield municipal code to expand temporary emergency shelters for the homeless to include commercial buildings so i just would like to pull those for further explanation to the public

1:03:39 okay with those items removed i will entertain a motion i move that we approve the consent calendar minus the two items council more just mentioned hi second it's been moved and seconded all in favor uh kneel by roll call counselors ben gordon yes counselor turn on my microphone yes answer more yes answer stare yes counselor woodrow yes and cancer pictionary yes uh it's unanimous

1:04:26 unanimously passed next item we want to discuss those two ordinances those two issues yes this is the time okay thank you so um particularly relating to the ordinance to um we're going to oh we're going to find this i'm sorry looking for the actual wording here i'm looking at the wrong one thank you i'm looking for um the wording that has to do with the

1:05:11 fact that we were um creating a uh district what do we call that a um local improvement right for the uh two properties that need to be connected to the sewer and i read the letter from the one of the parties who was very concerned about the cost involved and i just wanted to thank very much the staff for all the work that they've done but i also am wanting to express my sympathies to the owner who is having to take on this cost but i also note that the city is offering to put that on a bancroft which is at a low interest rate allows them 10 years to

1:05:56 repay it and so i just wanted to make sure that um i guess that the owner knows that we did read it i do understand um but also it is a health and safety issue and we as a city are obligated to take care of it so that was that one and for the next one the ordinance that has to do with the commercial buildings um i ask if um can anyone else have a comment about that first one actually excuse me sherry yes um neil do we have to would we vote on that passage of that item now if there are no other discussions on ordinance one we can read it into the record and vote

1:06:41 please do so uh ordinance number one an ordinance adopting the report of the city engineer and forming a local improvement district for the installation of sanitary sewer in crest lane from 724 crest lane to 749 summit boulevard that's project p21171 thank you neil i will entertain a motion i move i so move i second it's been moved and seconded all in favor signified by a yes to neil's roll call vote counselor van gorden yes counselor mo yes counselor moore yes

1:07:26 counselor stare yes counselor woodrow yes and counselor pissionary yes next item sherry okay um i just wanted for us to explain what we were actually doing i know that we took some time to discuss this but the pro public may not be aware in ordinance to it says to allow the building at 1650 centennial boulevard or another suitable commercial building to be used as a warming center and so what we have to do in order to allow that is expand we have to change the code to allow that to happen in a commercial building we already allow it

1:08:11 in several other in churches in well i asked nancy if she would just kind of speak to this that we're not actually saying that we're going to do it right now but we have to change the code in order to make it possible for us to explore that idea is that correct nancy yes that's correct we actually have staff here if you have specific questions about the code or what we're intending to do with this ordinance well just what we already allow we already allow um a warming centers to be in can you tell me what that says i do not have that in front of me i would defer to uh one of our is sandy in the

1:08:59 audience yes i'm here can you hear me yes so currently we allow the cold weather shelter which is how our code defines it in public buildings or in churches and so since it has industrial site properties that's for the outdoor shelter so we're talking about the in this case it's the indoor shelter okay thank you and so what we're doing is just expanding the making that possible that we could use a commercial building for that overnight shelter is that

1:09:44 correct that is correct okay there was some misunderstanding from the public i just want to make sure they understood that we discussed it and that's what we were doing tonight sean so i don't know i don't think i saw anything that was misunderstanding from from the public so maybe you have a piece of uh like an email or phone call with the rest of the stone well i'm i work with the mohawk hawks and so there's a lot of businesses who are in that area and they were hearing rumors and so yes so i just wanted you know i'm also hoping to give them an opportunity to

1:10:30 meet with sandy and to have their questions answered but um this misunderstanding about what we were actually doing tonight they should absolutely feel free to meet with me with the city staff to talk to talk about their uh talk about any concerns they have and i think this is one of the unspoken things that we don't tell our the city story very well is like we actually do a lot of legwork when it comes to finding e and warming centers every year and go out of our way to find a creative solution for springfield so i mean that that's the good news part of this uh of this ordinance joe we all do a lot of legwork um working with the public and with businesses i mean they have a connection with us so when they have a question they

1:11:15 tend to ask us thank you sherry and uh hang on ahead counselor steer with a question unless counselor steer wants to wait i i'll um i'll defer to uh merrily i i can wait with my question thank you okay i was just gonna iterate that a couple weeks ago when we talked about this uh we talked about expanding and opening it up for the commercial but at the same time there were some conditions that were set on it and that was that surrounding areas were polled as far as you know how their comfort zone regarding it the fire marshal was part of the approval process and and so there were there there were different caveats as to whether a commercial building

1:12:01 would end up being used or not and hopefully with with any questions that come from the public like sherry mentioned they'll get more and more information that that everybody's being brought to the table on it and it's not just not just something that's going to be plopped down in the middle of them steer go ahead uh my question is actually related to counselor woodrow's i wanted to find out are these commercial properties limited to properties that are zoned commercial or would they be open to properties that are zoned mix use commercial as well counselor still i can adjust that question so the

1:12:48 ordinance has exhibit a and that defines a commercial building so it's not actually based on zoning it's defined as a commercial building so a building that is used for commercial purposes it includes vacant buildings in which the most recent permanent primary use was commercial okay i'd entertain a motion if you're ready for that i so move a second neil did you need to read that yes council let me read the call promotion yeah i shouldn't have called promotion yet just couldn't read that yep no problem ordinance number two an ordinance amending sections 8.000

1:13:34 through 8.016 of the springfield municipal code to expand temporary emergency shelters for the homeless to include commercial buildings and adopting a severability clause thank you neil now go ahead with the motions i'm sorry i so move iso seconds it's been moved and seconded uh take a roll call vote meal announcer van gorden yes counselor mo yes counselor moore yes counselor stare yes counselor woodrow yes and counselor pictionary

1:14:19 yes and next item next item three public hearings this evening uh public hearing number one is a request for a metro plan diagram amendment for 36.57 acres of property removal of nodal designation for eight 81.37 acres of property and zone change for 45.63 acres of property located at the northwest corner of marcola road in 2013. ordinance number four an ordinance amending the eugene springfield metropolitan area general plan or the metro plan diagram by redesignating approximately 36.57 acres of land from commercial to medium density

1:15:05 residential concurrently amending the metro plan diagram by removing the nodal designation from 81.37 acres of land concurrently amending the springfield zoning map by rezoning approximately 36.57 acres of land from mixed-use commercial to 20.74 acres of mdr and 15.83 acres of public land and open space concurrently amending the springfield zoning map by rezoning approximately acres of land from muc to community commercial adopting a severability clause and providing an effective date this is the first reading and counselor pictionary before

1:15:51 anthony limberg starts with the staff report you may have something to announce yes i do thank you for reading that neil um i hereby open the public hearing can we please have a statement of legal rights from the city attorney's office thank you councillor missionary can you hear me yes yes we can thank you this is christina kraus from the city attorney's office for the record tonight's hearing is a quasi-judicial hearing on a proposal for a set of metro plan diagram amendments and the springfield zoning and springfield zoning map amendments a copy of the procedures and agenda for tonight's hearing and copies of the staff reports have been posted on the city's website on the city council meeting page any

1:16:36 person with an interest in tonight's agenda item may offer relevant oral or written testimony or both to preserve your right to appeal the decision to the oregon land use board of appeals you must testify orally or in writing before the city council closes the public record you must raise an issue clearly enough so the council can understand it and you must offer evidence in support of it or else you cannot raise the issue on appeal to the oregon landis board of appeals if you are the applicant you must raise concerns about any conditions of approval clearly enough to allow the city council to respond to preserve your right to seek damages in circuit court if you feel you need more time to prepare evidence or testimony for the city council you can ask the council to hold open the

1:17:21 record or to continue the hearing you must make that request before the council closes the public portion of the hearing decisions on whether to extend the public hearing or written record are discretionary with the city council please make sure your testimony is related to applicable criteria the criteria for this application are located in springfield development code section 5.14-135 for the comprehensive plan amendments and section 5.22-115 for the zoning map amendments if you are joining us online with tablet smartphone or computer and wish to provide public comment please use the chat window it looks like a speech balloon in the upper right corner please send a comment to the organizer with your name mailing address and whether you are in favor neutral or opposed to the application

1:18:07 you can select organizer at the bottom of the chat window the council president will call on you when it's your turn to speak for people calling in by phone only you are enlisted only moan and cannot be called on the council president will call members of the public attending the meeting in person first and then those online when you are called on to speak please begin your testimony by giving your name and mailing address a mailing address is necessary for the record and to provide you with notice of the city council's final decision if you represent someone else please say so if you have any exhibits you want the council to consider such as copy of testimony photographs petitions or other documents or physical evidence please hand it to staff in city hall if you are there in person or email it to a limbered at

1:18:52 springfieldhyphenor.gov that is a-l-i-n-b-i-r-d at springfieldhyphen.org.gov that will need to be mailed in before the city council closes the public record members of the city council are to be unbiased in this decision before starting before the start of the hearing counselors will state whether they have any conflicts of interest such as family financial or business relationship with any of the applicants or with regard to the land in question if such potential conflict exists the counselor will state whether he or she is without actual bias counselors will also state whether they whether they have discussed the application in question with any of the parties or have any independent knowledge of relevant facts such as from a visit to the site in

1:19:37 question if any counselors have had such contacts or independent knowledge they will disclose the substance of that contact or knowledge during the time for public testimony a witness may challenge the impartiality of any counselor and may rebut the substance of a counselor's knowledge of the facts the counselor in question may respond to such a challenge counselor questionnaire it is now appropriate to ask if any counselors wish to declare any potential conflicts of interest or actual conflicts of interest ex parte contacts or independent knowledge of relevant facts thank you ms kratz so i'll start with uh counselor uh i'll start over here you do you have any ex parte contacts conflicts of interest uh no ex party contact no conflict of

1:20:24 interest thank you councillor mo don't come back adventures councilor van gorden uh no ex forte contacts no conflicts of interest counselor moore same no uh exported contacts and no conflicts of interest and councilor woodrow no exported contact and no uh conflicts of interest no independent knowledge thank you and i too have no uh ex parte contacts or conflicts of interest

1:21:26 we're working on getting him okay thank you there we go can you hear me now yes sir good evening counselors and i can share my camera if anyone wants to see me that's fine hello um i'm just gonna bring up a bear with me i'm gonna work with the controls here to bring up um the powerpoint slides for this hopefully everyone can see what i'm seeing right now and i'm going to start the slideshow and i'll try to be careful because sometimes some of the controls also mute

1:22:12 the microphone so um what we should be looking at right now is a location map of the site that's commonly referred to as marcola meadows and it's at the northwest corner of marcola road at 28th street the property is a little over 100 acres um vacant up until this year mostly vacant and and used for agriculture however staff is pleased to advise that initial construction is beginning on the first subdivision phase of 29 lots in the northeast corner uh near 31st and w street so there's there's some activity underway on this property currently so this is a air photo of the site

1:22:58 uh one notable feature is there is a drainage ditch that runs east west uh through the site uh commonly known as the pierce ditch and it conveys stormwater from areas to the east uh across the site and then southward to marcola where it runs underneath marcola road so that drainage features uh one of the defining features of this particular property the rest is relatively flat and has been used for agriculture up until recently so the site is identified in the metro plan diagram and i've identified it with a little arrow if you can see my cursor here it is a

1:23:43 nodal development area it is a combination of commercial and medium density residential designation the nodal development area has a notch in it and that represents a former commercial site that was identified in about 2008 for a major retailer a big box store so to speak home improvement center that was excluded from the normal development area so that's the reason for this kind of a exclusionary piece of the property the applicant is proposing to redesignate most of the site to medium density residential

1:24:29 and keep some commercial designation in the southwest corner about nine acres and a one acre site approximately uh just west of the intersection of 28th street and marcol road currently this is the land use designation and the cross hatch pattern represents the nodal development area so roughly the northern half currently is medium density residential designation and roughly the southern half it's a little bit less than half acreage wise uh is the commercial designation and you can see the nodal development area kind of wraps around a former commercial site that had been identified in previous plans

1:25:21 so the applicant is proposing to change it predominantly to medium density residential to facilitate not only housing but also institutional land use on the site um the existing commercial designation in the southwest corner is being retained because it's compatible with a planned church site at that location concurrent with the redesignation the applicant is looking to change the zoning currently the northern half approximately is medium density residential zoning and the southern half a little less than half about 45.6 acres is mixed use commercial zoning the applicant is proposing to change

1:26:06 the southern portion of the mixed use commercial zoning to a combination of medium density residential which would be in the southeast quadrant adjacent to marcola road at 28th street public land and open space about a little over 15 acres to facilitate a public school at that location uh community commercial zoning at the southwest edge again to accommodate a planned church site on the property and approximately a one acre piece of community commercial between 28th street and the planned school site for some type of neighborhood commercial perhaps a convenience store something of that nature

1:26:53 so currently there is a development master plan in place for this property and this provides a kind of a an overview of what was previously the planned and most recent configuration of planned development on the site a combination of single detached and attached homes in the northern half of the property and then higher density residential combined with the shopping commercial village type of environment in the southern portion and this is the configuration that had been established in 2008 and had been subsequently modified slightly a few times in order to keep

1:27:40 the master plan essentially viable during a prolonged period of no activity on the site and there is a change of as many many counselors may be aware there's been changes of ownership and it was bank owned for a period of time and now a private developer with aspirations to develop the site has purchased the property and is looking to make changes hence the reason that the metro plan amendment zone changes are before you this evening so the applicant has provided a conceptual master plan that would be the next step arising from a successful comprehensive plan amendment zone change should that occur they've

1:28:26 identified as i just had indicated a church site at for one of the springfield local churches has identified this as a potential site for them to relocate at the southwest corner of the property springfield public schools have identified the need for a school to serve this neighborhood and they are on board with a approximately 15-acre school site that would be at the corner of marcola road and what would be the extension of b street and additional multi-unit residential arguably needed housing in the community further to the east at the intersection of arcola road and 28th street so these constitute the

1:29:13 planned changes to the configuration of the property and these would this is what would be arising as a next step should this comprehensive plan designation and zone change be successful so this has been advertised a number of times as counselors are aware um the planned public hearing before the planning commission uh was postponed because of the holiday farm fire and so we had to re-notice every one that was in the vicinity post new notices on the site and also in the newspaper i personally have been in contact with a number of people on the on the kind of the periphery that are curious about what's happening

1:29:59 uh want to keep informed and apprised of the development plans but as of right now there have been no voiced or written objections uh to this proposal so there has been no public comment either neutral or negative provided uh for the proposal up to this point so um i know that the applicant has a presentation that they will add as well and i'd be happy to answer any questions that you have um for this proposal to amend the metro plan diagram and also the springfield zoning map um so i guess i have a question about the planning commit commission's exhibits one of the things that i noticed is that they

1:30:45 um that it was a little it was a split decision but i didn't see the minutes from that um from that meeting could you give give maybe us a little bit of flavor about what the concern from you know or of that discussion was um because i'd be really interested in seeing what their take was somebody clearly had some concerns so the planning commission voted five to two in favor of um the recommendation city council the dissenting views expressed concerns about the reduction of commercial designation and commercial zoning on the site i'm recognizing that there may be opportunities uh the it may not be an immediate opportunity for

1:31:30 commercial development on the site but the planned changes to residential essentially closes the door to what could be a opportunity a little ways down the road staff understands that the developer wants to move fairly quickly in developing this property um so you know the southern edge of the site is in the you know the three to five year time frame um so not looking to hold or speculate on commercial land um where there is a no perceived market according to the developer and that was the reason for advancing these plans um that was the concerns expressed by the two commissioners was primarily um

1:32:15 its effect on the commercial land base for the city thank you i have a question thank you go ahead gary marylee had a question i'm sorry that's okay i'm waving at a blank screen [Laughter] i was curious as to how many residences this is going to total up to be so with we do know um with the planned changes to the designation to medium density residential it would be between 750 to over 1 000 dwelling units

1:33:01 depending upon the type and configuration of multi-unit residential housing at the south east corner there's a couple of sites that could be developed there they could be multi-story um and any number of different housing forms apartments possibly assisted living retirement townhouses there's a variety of different housing forms that could be accommodated there and that would affect the unit count but it does lead to a net increase of residential dwelling units on the property so that would the 750 to 1 000 is that just the the property we're talking about now um or does that include the northern part as well that's that's in totality the full build

1:33:48 load of 100 plus acres okay thank you welcome thank you and go ahead counselor more followed by counselor steer so my question has to do with um we're talking about those single-family residences um are they looking at possibly um changing some of those because of the state ruling that's coming down about higher density in these single-family lots or is that a consideration at this point in time or do you know if that's a consideration um i don't know if that's a consideration i know that the um the developer has intentionally designed the lot pattern

1:34:35 as modest size lots so the density is relatively high although it is single detached dwellings there would be based on some of the lot sizes some accessory dwelling units would be allowable but they have provided no indication that they want to pursue duplex attached home type units on the single detached lots that are being created right now that would be an option to them when it comes into effect which will either be upon adoption of the development code rewrite or house bill 2001 and i think mid 2022 so they my estimation based on the information we have from the developers they will be

1:35:20 well underway to completing the northern portion of the site in a couple years and they may not choose to await um the outcome of changes in the regulations that would allow for different housing types that's speculation right and i realized speculating but i did also notice that you it had been marked if you would go back to that map it says affordable housing is there any kind of are we asking for them to include any affordable housing is this all going to be market let's see where did i see that i saw multi-family residential affordable housing options so are are we as a city asking

1:36:05 for them to address the affordable housing issues or are they all going to be market where are we at with that um we again we don't know um the the app the developer has submitted for a meeting with staff to talk about the multi-unit residential site that meeting has not yet been scheduled and it'll be just a project scoping meeting and i guess the the difference between affordable and low income you know and other types of housing um there's there's nuances there um it may be affordable relative to other units within the neighborhood um and it may be affordable relative to

1:36:50 you know the kind of the predominant single family housing neighborhoods that are represented in this area um so it's not exactly clear staff's understanding and expectation would be that it'll be market rate not subsidized or um you know agency run or anything like that so we may find out more information after meeting with the developer a couple weeks from now and get an idea whether they or possibly a third party might be the developer of these multi-unit sites and then there'll be more information as to the nature of those uh units that will be created okay so what work what this first reading tonight is asking us to change the zoning however

1:37:37 to that multi-density zoning correct correct yes to medium density residential designation and zoning which would allow for a wide variety of housing forms everything from a single detached unit all the way up to like a low-rise apartment type of unit and the developer through their master plan has identified this as being on that sort of spectrum the more high density number of units probably closer to the uh 20 to 28 units per net acre that would be allowable in medium density residential as opposed to the uh 14 units per acre in the lower end so as a city we are not

1:38:22 asking for any restrictions for low income or affordable housing or can we ask for that um through this action i don't believe that can be done but through future actions when they come forward with plans for um you know specific detailed plans for site plan development and through their their master plan that they'll need to um modify there may be the opportunity for dialogue with the developer to look at some of those opportunities and also to convey council's desire uh should that be council's desire to have a component of um these types of housing forms within this

1:39:08 development okay so then my last question has to do with the school site um i'm assuming that that would also include a playground maybe some open fields and it's a looks like a very large site correct so in the past willamelain has partnered with schools and created park type settings is that the expectation that it would not just be school district but possibly could be partnered and i again and this is hypothetical but i'm just it looks like such a large piece of land and i'm thinking that many houses it would be nice to have some kind of a park setting nearby sure um i think that um the you know the programmatic

1:39:54 needs of springfield public schools would be um active play fields um depending upon the type of school there may be a kind of a playground of sorts um if it's you know if it's a middle school probably not but um with 15 acres there's opportunity for um shared use of fields you know community use potentially um we have not heard from willamelaine that they're looking to partner with the school district at this location they are looking to develop the property immediately north of the e-web pathway there that borders um briggs and um there may be an opportunity to develop some

1:40:39 of the open space in the corner of that school site there um but as to this school it is still fairly early in the planning of the school site and so well emelianes is aware of what's happening um they've been to the table along the way and so we may hear more as the school plans get more fleshed out right thank you yes ma'am hi this is christina krauss i just wanted to provide a little bit of information in response to councillor moore's um question about affordable housing i just want to make sure that the council knows that for the future plan master plan modification it will

1:41:24 that would have to be based on criteria of approval the council does not currently have adopted any criteria of approval that could be used to require affordable housing as in housing that is set for specific income levels there are a lot of optional programs that a developer can pursue where they get waivers of application fees or other types of programs the city has adopted and then affordable housing is a requirement for those types of programs but for the master plan itself we don't have any uh way to require affordable housing as part of just that application on it thank you thank you thank you christina go ahead counselor ben gordon

1:42:09 so christina can you just clarify for us like right now we're not being asked to make policy recommendations or policy decisions all we're being asked is if the applicant meets whatever the criteria to do a reason is correct you would be making policy decisions and recommendations to the extent that they reflect policies in the comprehensive plan about these designations and this type of action but not other types of policies that are related to land development but not specifically these criteria of approval thank you thank you christina and uh councillor woodrow do you have anything

1:42:55 nothing uh councillor steer has his hand up go ahead um thanks i'm glad this slide is up right now because one of the concerns that was voiced by the planning commission was that the additional housing that's being proposed now might crowd some of the storm water mitigation and some of the drainage that was planned does staff believe that that might be a problem not being a stormwater engineer i know that um the city has looked very closely at the functionality and i'll bring this up full size so it can be um you can kind of see this corridor here

1:43:43 staff has conveyed to the developer and they're in their consulting engineer that the operation of the pierce ditch because of its its carries public water across the site from off-site through this property and and to the public system to the south and southwest it needs to have some additional capacity built in there are already even pre-development on the site some constraints particularly where it makes an elbow a 90 degree turn westbound to southbound right at the bottom of lock drive cul-de-sac there periodically during high flows even currently without any development on the site there can be some water that backs up

1:44:29 into the system and pools in the cul-de-sac fault there so uh the developers well aware of that they have designed uh for additional capacity within the stormwater facilities that will be constructed on the site and you can see that there's some open areas that have some conceptual ponding areas and that would alleviate some of the flow during periods of high flow and also from the neighborhood development itself to direct storm water into facilities that can hold and store some of the overflow until it can be released into the drainage ditch so it's not to cause downstream impacts so

1:45:15 that is of paramount concern to staff and the developer and their team are are are well aware of that and will be making plans accordingly as the development continues to advance so is the intent to increase the capacity of the drainage stitches that they've uh that they've planned um to a certain degree and it certainly will be uh the intent will be not to pre not to impact what is currently the uh the current rate of flow so not not to diminish it and not to to exceed uh the maximum capacity of the flow so basically everything has to be designed so as not to have any impact and to mitigate where there has been area problem areas identified specifically that

1:46:01 that elbow there so for example as the church site develops um the existing channel that will need to remain as an open conveyance channel on the site uh that will be part of the planning for that uh development in the future should the should the church project advance so some options might be areas of landscaping there is a buffering from the neighborhood that can accommodate some of the storm water drainage infiltrate and prevent any impacts to the neighborhood thank you thank you uh andy i had a one quick question if i could please i noticed that the the road between the church and the school property the north south road

1:46:48 um so is this master plan fixing the location of the roadways both ingress and egress yes and this this location of the road is consistent with the previous master plan if i can go back to this site what was previously shown as a roundabout in large part because of the high amount of commercial area uh right has been i guess arguably simplified to a more of a t intersection um and so it essentially yes the the uh this road intersection has been identified and will be defined not only by the zoning but also by the

1:47:35 parcels that the um property owner has created they did a property line adjustment and they have established this east boundary of the church site which represents the edge of the road right-of-way so that also has essentially starting to fix the locations of some of these future improvements and so that oh go ahead i just want to make sure that that it's clear for the audience that the master plan modifications are not in front of the council those have to be separately approved later and so this is what they are contemplating submitting or maybe have submitted already but not part of what the council is deciding tonight so there's different criteria of approval

1:48:20 of what will apply to those so final decisions on right-of-way locations or changes to the stormwater system from the current master plan will be made as part of that separate land use decision making process which has other standards that apply to it okay that's what i was kind of wondering because this is the proposed development master plan as opposed to what's currently existing correct i i wanted to show it for context because this is the logical next step that the developer is looking to make in order to do that um that's the comprehensive plan amendment zone change before the council this evening which would allow them to then advance the plans uh to change from a predominantly commercial to more

1:49:05 of an institutional and residential neighborhood gotcha thank you there's any more questions for our staff okay so um at this point is the applicant here to make a christina do we have any input from the applicant i don't have anything um if the applicant is not there in city hall then they don't need to provide a um okay

1:49:53 so is there anyone present in the council chambers or submitted a chat or email in advance that would like to testify it does not appear that we have anyone in city hall we do have one one in city hall hold on one moment okay okay that's michael's michelle okay hold on a moment we'll get someone no worries can you hear us yes oh fantastic all right great so

1:50:42 why yeah we're trying to get this set up here please bear with us thank you can you see our screen we have a black yeah we can see your screen out there we go okay okay you want to start the slideshow oh yeah okay great all right so the next slide okay um so thank you counselors my name is chris goodell i'm a land use planner with aks our address is one two nine six five southwest hermann road suite 100 12 in oregon 97062

1:51:27 we're working on behalf of the property owner and prepared the application that you the applications that are before you here tonight these applications are very technical in nature and andy did a thorough job of describing them as well as some of the history on the property as andy had mentioned construction just started on a small part of the project located in the northeast corner of the site i don't know if you can see our cursor here which looks like a hand so this portion of the property right up here is the first phase of the marcotla meadows project and that has just started construction as christina and andy mentioned this is our conceptual

1:52:14 master plan map that shows ideally what are what the owner would like to see on the property so just sort of i'll run down these different land uses fairly quickly but starting with the property the portion of the site in the southwest corner is a home to the future northwood christian church it's approximately eight acres this piece of the property which is purple is a site for a new public elementary school for the springfield school district it's approximately 15 acres this portion of the property here which

1:52:59 is in tan is planned to be a future multi-family residential neighborhood and as andy mentioned we just submitted a request to meet and discuss this portion of the property here with city staff and this little piece down here in commercial is uh slated to be or remain commercial and envisioned as being a neighborhood scaled commercial site and the the bulk of the remaining portion of the property is of course is as was previous with a previous master plan single-family residential homes in this case these are single-family detached homes and you can see the first phase which

1:53:46 you mentioned is called phase 1a which is up here other portions of the first phase extend out in this direction here and so those will be probably the next things that you'll you'll see on the site and there's uh stormwater facilities some of them are real small up in the corner there there's another one there here here and in here and a couple others that are planned even down in here so all these phases are planned to be tied together with a street network local streets and neighborhood collector street b street here being the the highest functional class street

1:54:36 doesn't mention this portion of site has a subdivision approval from i think it was around december of last year that we're working on now the rest of the site is uh does not have subdivision approval and and as andy mentioned these portions of the site don't have approvals to develop yet so the next thing that has has to happen here so this is a metro plan diagram amendment and zone change for portions of the property but before anything can happen on any of these other portions of the property we're pro we're working with staff on a modification to the current approved master plan for the property and

1:55:24 that's the sort of the next step i guess they call it the second step and then third and fourth and fifth steps would be for instance site design review for the multi-family portion of the site and for the school and the church so we're actively working on plans or plans are being actively worked on so far as i know on every phase of the project i don't know i haven't really heard anything about the school but it's worth mentioning that the planning commission members the pastor and other members of the church testified in favor of the applications that are here this evening and a member of the school district staff was president testifying in favor of the applications as well

1:56:15 city councilors asked a number of really good questions and i'd like to provide a few answers here that might be helpful one question was regarding the number of residential dwelling units on the side and andy was was very close it's not right on so currently with what's what being thought of is between this sub the subdivision these lots for single family homes and the multi-family portion of the site is current the current idea is 753 dwelling units so he was was was right on another question was regarding a comment that we had in our bubble diagram which talked about uh affordable housing

1:57:02 and i guess that's a a loaded term afforded housing affordable housing needed housing um all those terms i guess we were sort of using this in the general sense like like andy described is uh it would be more affordable to people starting out than what a single family detached home so that was that was the idea because behind calling this affordable nothing more so our client is looking at building the apartments itself they they do a number of multi-family projects all over the state and so like i said we were meeting with city staff very soon to start that process

1:57:50 let's see oh one question came up regarding storm water and i guess regarding this application this is just for zoning so it doesn't really define where or how storm water works our engineering staff is working very closely with city engineering staff public works staff and that's how we've come up with this design as far as having a number of stormwater facilities throughout the site and we're currently having conversations with them about the pure stitch and its function and how to make sure that it doesn't get any worse with this with these projects that we're doing here

1:58:35 so that was really what i wanted to convey to you but i'm here with other members of the project team and we're happy to any answer any questions that you might have thank you thank you very much is there any uh questions from council scene none thank you sir appreciate that um do we need any adduct andy do you need to respond to any of his testimony or wish to uh no i think um it filled in some of the points that i uh didn't have the specific figures and knowledge in front of me here so i i appreciate that chris thank you for uh for helping to flesh out my my responses a bit

1:59:22 thank you um so is again is there any questions of the applicant or staff from the council seeing none i would like to ask the council would you like me to close the public hearing and or the public record or continue the hearing and hold the record open to another date do you need it in the form of an emotion um good question christina i would prefer a motion to close the publicarian written record for us i mode that we closed the public hearing in the written record a second it's been moved and seconded all in favor by roll call vote

2:00:08 counselor van gorden yes councillor mo yes councillor moore yes councillor stare yes councillor woodrow yes and council missionary yes thank you the motion carries unanimously next item next item is your second public hearing fiscal year 21 supplemental budget number one an appropriations transfer resolution number two a resolution adjusting resources and requirements in the following funds general street special revenue

2:00:55 transit room tax community development building code fire local option levy police local option levy bancroft redemption bond sinking development assessment capital development projects street capital sanitary sewer operations regional wastewater operations regional wastewater capital ambulance storm drainage operations booth kelly regional fiber consortium insurance vehicle and equipment and sc sdc administration and authorizing the transfer of appropriations within the general fund from contingency expense to development and public works operating expense and within the community development fund from operating expense

2:01:40 to capital project expense neil obringer is here for the staff report good evening council can everybody hear me okay yes again this is neil obringer from the finance department i'm here with the first supplemental budget and appropriations transfer of fy21 staff requests that the council hold a public hearing on the proposed changes to the budget and either adopt or not adopt the attached resolution and after the public hearing i would be happy to take any questions you might have thank you um i would like to open the public hearing

2:02:28 for anybody wishing to testify on this code adoption a resolution uh counselor we have uh one person to speak we have no one in the council chambers on this item but we do have one for person online and i can bring them up here okay thank you and our speaker is holly shaper and holly you should be able to unmute your microphone now thank you good evening good evening my name is holly shaper and i live in ward 2. so i've lived in springfield for 15 years i've watched the transformation happen downtown i've benefited directly from the

2:03:14 interactions with the incredible library staff and historic planning staff and transportation planning staff and building permitting staff i am deeply concerned that we are going to see a drop in available services for residents as a direct result of police actions and lawsuits that stem from them i say this in reference to the city council meeting on july 6th of this year item number eight which states that due to several large police and jail claims in recent years our general liability deductible will change from a 100 thousand dollar annual aggregate deductible to a 250 000 per claim deductible for police and jail claims additionally unfavorable police and jail claims costs were cited as the reason

2:04:00 that no other proposals were received this year i have given public comment sent emails and reached out to my counselor and others about the gravity of this situation now i have a question for each of you one to consider when considering the city budget which services or employees are you willing to lose in order to allow our police department to continue to act in the way that is described in the 2014 umenhoffer lawsuit 2014 nickel lawsuit 2018 baroni lawsuit 2019 mckee tort notice 2019 stone lawsuit 2020 kenny lawsuit 2020 chaplain lawsuit and is displayed at protests and during interactions with residents and visitors of springfield including the july 29 protest in thurston for the first 250 000 claim deductible

2:04:46 what service are you willing to lose the library for the second 250 thousand dollar claim deductible are you willing to cut back on your i.t staff for the third two hundred and fifty thousand dollar claim deductible which beloved staff member are you willing to lose it is the responsibility of city council and the city manager to provide oversight we need council and city leadership to make the choice to be actively involved in managing our police department we cannot afford to lose these crucial staff and services because one of our city departments has lost control of itself and our leadership is refusing to take the reins thank you thank you holly do we have any more speakers from the

2:05:33 public in regards to this action sponsor for public hearing number two it does not appear we have anyone else thank you very much uh is so word no one else in cue that that we might be able to we might be missing then no counselor it appears that is the last speaker thank you very much uh with that i'd close the public hearing and open it up for a motion i move that we approve the supplemental budget number one and appropriations transfer second it's been moved and seconded so that would be the uh to adopt a resolution number two

2:06:18 yes okay and that was your second too sean yes okay uh thank you i'd like to take a vote by roll call neil councillor van gorden yes counselor mo yes counselor moore yes counselor stare yes councillor woodrow yes and counselor pissionary yes and thank you next item please your next item is your third public hearing of the evening uh use of recreational vehicles as temporary housing resolution number three a resolution allowing recreational vehicles as temporary housing

2:07:05 sandy belson is here for the staff report good evening mayor um counselors and uh you had a work session on this item previously and tonight is a public hearing and this is a curing to get public input on the idea of allowing rv occupancy on private land and so this would be either in conjunction with a single family home or duplex or in a parking lot a commercial uh building a house of worship or church or some other public entity

2:07:50 so the um guidelines that are presented to you tonight have been reformatted a bit and they include the requirement that the rv must be roadworthy that no structure shall be connected to the rv all personal items shall be kept in the rv or otherwise screen from any public right of way and in response to your discussion last time we've listed that property owners may not charge rent but may ask the rv occupants to contribute toward utilities there are requirements to address sanitation facilities how you would provide electrical connections and that garbage service

2:08:36 must be required so that's a those are the high points of the draft temporary guidelines and so if council proceeds with this resolution it would allow this type of rv occupancy until next spring we would come back to you before summer recess and at that time you would evaluate how this is working if you want to continue it or not and if you want to make it permanent so with that i will conclude my comments unless you have any questions i have a question okay go for it uh counselor woodrow yes i want you mentioned um uh parking allowing

2:09:22 rvs in parking lots or in public um public building near public buildings did we do we have a number a limit on that or as proposed there is not but we could add a limit if you thought that that would be helpful i i i'm just thinking if it's i i don't i don't know i i'm open to i'm open to discussing that i i i'm not sure i want to see a dozen in a parking lot um so i'm asking i'm open to some discussion on that i i don't know i think it would be helpful if we had a limit but i don't

2:10:07 know what that would be and um is that that all you had merely yeah i'm open to talking about it before we before we approve this i'd like to talk about that okay and i saw a counselor more with her hand up so um and i spoke with you sandy about this and my understanding is we're not actually changing code what we're actually doing is suspending the enforcement of our current code is that correct that is correct um and so the idea is that if if you tried this out and it was working

2:10:52 successfully and meeting a need beyond the temporary emergency that you could incorporate some changes into the code that would outright allow it and that is why when we talked last time about establishing a permit to allow that we've taken that out of the language because in fact we're not as a city really overseeing it we're just suspending code enforcement and but if in fact there were a problem in the neighborhood somebody had a complaint that we could in fact then enforce our code as it stands so even

2:11:39 as marylee is asking about the number of rvs that would be allowed in a parking lot if we saw all of a sudden that there were 10 rvs lined up and you know that we could we could then say you know i don't know it seems a little loosey-goosey to me but that's just my opinion so in response i would say that we would continue to take action to invoice uh to enforce other aspects of our codes such as the noise sanitation nuisance or other public health and safety code violations i'm not sure if jim donovan is available

2:12:24 but he is our code enforcement supervisor and he might be able to respond more specifically but we wouldn't enforce something just because somebody complained about an rv there would have to be some other corresponding concern that touched on some of those other code violation issues okay okay thank you um and i had one quick question unless someone else has other questions um sandy i thought i read when we first were looking at this that the question of a permit or the um saint vincent de paul's managing the placement and the location

2:13:09 of these rvs did that go away so i think that's what um counselor moore was um referring to so you had talked about that during your last meeting my understanding was that by the end of the discussion you had decided not to go with the permit approach and changing the code at this time so if you decide that you do want to use a permit approach that would require a code amendment so that would be more quite a bit more involved than to just pass this and see how see how it rolls basically correct we would need to actually

2:13:56 prepare some code amendments for your consideration okay and we can if need be look at that down the road and shore it up if we need to correct okay um so any other questions go ahead sherry also referring to marilee's question um i'd like to hear other counselor input as well um you know what would we should we limit the number of rvs that might be parked in a church parking lot for instance or should we just leave it to

2:14:42 i i'd like some other input i mean i don't know this is kind of uncharted territory thanks jerry i didn't know either leonard thanks um isn't the number of vehicles in a church parking lot already limited by the overnight parking program correct we allow up to three through the overnight parking program and so any church that was wanting to participate through that overnight parking program and have it managed by one of our profit nonprofits and have the porta potties paid for and the trash service provided that's limited to three in this

2:15:27 scenario the city is not involved in financially providing any of the support for the trash collection or the sanitation that must be provided by the property owner and so there at this point the guideline is whatever you want it to be in terms of the number you would allow okay i um i i would know how i would have no problem with allowing three rvs on a church parking lot at a time and just allow the the current limit to govern that thank you counselor steer counselor van gorden i'd be good with that that seems like a

2:16:12 number we've used in the past yeah oh i'm sorry go go i'm sorry go ahead i'm comfortable with that too yeah i was going to say that our pre-existing ordinances cover that so i'm good with not moving or changing those or programs i should say so that said um steve had his hand up yeah steve i stand up i'm sorry what hi joe oh i'm sorry steve i was looking at the ordinance i've been advocating for this use of rvs in the city for quite a while ever since the virus issue came up i knew there's going to be a lot of

2:16:57 homeless families out there that need a place to stay and if they had a motor home or camper they could park to their father-in-law's mother-in-law's that would help a lot of those families now since we've had the fires up the river we have even more use for it so it's a good thing and i suggest we get going on it because i think that's important to put in use now thank you steve and christina i if you're still here did i was this a um open something that needed to open for public comment and then close it or is this something we just moved forward this is not a public hearing okay just making sure thank you i was thinking i might have messed up all right my understanding is that you

2:17:43 did want to have a public hearing and it was listed under public hearings on your agenda yes this is a public hearing correctly okay so backpedaling a little bit here was that um we should have read the resolution and then open it for public hearing close a public hearing and then comments or emotions from the council correct yes so if you can open the public hearing we have three members of the public that are ready to speak okay so let's do that all right thank you our first speaker is chris mcallister

2:18:29 and chris is followed by june father gill uh chris you should be able to unmute your microphone dear members of council members of the public my name is chris mcallister and i reside on 12th street in ward 3. i come before you on the issue of using recreational vehicles as temporary housing this is not a conversation new to our town nor this body the last time this body considered modifications to our code permanently the council work session was directed to do nothing for those not already served when the word of the qualifying no caught fire this fall we have this measure our people are our people and you will not find me resisting this resolution i will ever ask this body to reflect on how different some of you spoke or did not speak when it was not fire

2:19:15 victims but abuse victims substance use victims and economic refugees from rural communities who look to you for long-term recovery councilor mo was the sole voice that truly sought something over a dozen suggestions to be carved out for our folks and i thank him sincerely for putting the support of people before our prevention of stabilizing activity council stare was out of town i very much welcome this resolution and find it to be one of the first in almost a decade that sincerely puts the process in front of not behind the need there are needs to be considered there needs to be consent excuse me there needs to be continued leadership on this item and those like the commercial property waiver and that they are not sunsetted for convenience or community exporting police escalation and insensitive code

2:20:01 that does not reflect our invoking of home for a majority of those who are in these vehicles outside of the fire times you may recall we did not serve this community in the height of the coca need despite councillor mo's insistence eagan is not going to be supported like it has been previously and i fear that we need to do something greater than what we've ever seen in terms of response with covid the fires and winter relief you have options with our neighbor neighboring governments but the main two points missing is our part and us we are missing from the conversation locally and we can do better city of springfield and the ball is in our court please don't limit us down to three so everybody else has six we need to serve our people and the numbers needed not in what's convenient our code is broken our options are

2:20:46 limited and our people deserve better we need a leader who will lead not wait for the need to go so much that we then concede i yield a balance in my time thank you thank you chris next speaker our next speaker is june father gill followed by jennifer smith and reverend father gil your microphone should be hello um my name is june father gill i live at um 317 30th street in the brentwood estates one of those multi-family places that was built a long time ago or 10 or more years ago um yes i i am in for in favor of you

2:21:31 doing this i'm very excited that you're going to be doing it it's good to see something happening for our in-house folks many people turn to try to have recreational vehicles or or um some kind of trailer to try to find a place to be safe and to be warm and but they don't usually have a hard time finding place to put them so i'm hoping that this will open up some more opportunities for people to have safe housing and thank you for doing it um i hope that we can continue to work together to find ways to have safe housing for everyone all the residents in our community and let's work together on it thank you

2:22:19 councillor it looks like our last speaker is jennifer smith and jennifer your microphone should be um you just need to unmute it on your side there you go hello hello hi my name is jen smith and i'm just really glad to be able to speak on this issue on behalf of a friend who's currently living in their rv in springfield area um so i know that we have many you know friends and and family that are affected by um covid and by the fires and by losing their jobs and i just really want to advocate for allowing this this private and public um use of space especially during the pandemic time but also that um there are people who

2:23:04 are in crisis all the time not not just right now so i just beseech you to to keep them in your minds as well i i yield the remainder of my time thank you thank you jen anyone else neil answer it appears that it are all the speak those are all the speakers and we have no one on this item within city hall either thank you sir then i would like to close the uh public hearing on this matter and would entertain a motion or council discussion okay we got counselor moore with her hand up well i said a question because uh the

2:23:49 last time we spoke about this i said well i i could possibly um put a mobile home or trailer or something next to our house and so i said well i would recuse myself but then i realized that that's a possibility just as many things that we pass we um we could add aud or what you know accessory dwelling unit so i'm i'm wondering if i do need to recuse myself i guess that's my question i'm asking that of attorney somebody christina i think i can help answer and then mary bridget can add anything i might have left out um the standard is that if a decision that you make

2:24:38 could or would have a financial impact on you or your business or your relative or your relative's business in this case i believe the resolution provides that it's on a rent on a no rent basis and so therefore i would read it as not affecting anyone's financial interests if you were talking about rental units then you could have a potential conflict of interest if you might take advantage of it in the future or an actual conflict if you would take advantage of it that's my understanding of how the state has applied that to accessory dwelling units for example which is sort of an analogy here but since it's a rent-free basis you could a counselor couldn't make money off of this and neither could your relatives or businesses okay

2:25:24 thank you okay uh i'm entertaining a motion i move that we adopt resolution number three and i saw well hold on i saw steve mo's uh yes councillor mao yes councilor moore yes councillor stare yes councillor woodrow yes and counselor pictionary yes translationary i just want to ask a

2:26:09 clarifying question so are you um is that adopted as presented or were you wanting to include the limit of three rvs in the parking lots i think it's i think we were going with as presented and performing yes that's my impression thank you for asking so it was a motion was adopting resolution number three okay and voted upon unanimously so uh next item is going to be business from the audience and and i would like to say i know there's there's many folks that would like to speak tonight and i just want to let folks know and be rest assured that there has been a lot of

2:26:54 energy and um concern amongst the citizens in regards to this mayor appointment issue at interim appointment issue all of that and that it has all been all of our i can speak for all the counselors that um we listen to what you have to say including myself especially myself and i appreciate those comments and those honesty those those honest um opinions of what folks are feeling and i think that i would like to invite you to please listen to our conversation after the uh business from the audience and we in our discussion for this uh on this topic and again please keep that in mind that we have heard you and uh so we'll go ahead and start with

2:27:40 the business from the audience and neil first of all i'd like to ask how many are in queue uh counselor pictionary it looks like we have six maybe seven speakers okay so then we're going to go ahead and go with the um please limit your comments to three minutes or less uh the comments will be limited to 20 minutes and um so i could go ahead and start it neil thank you very much okay counselor our first speaker is thomas lawrence and thomas i'm going to just unmute your microphone here you may have to do it on your side as well all right are we good yes

2:28:28 all right uh thomas lawrence ward one uh i kind of just want to speak to the feeling that i get as i've listened to the last month or two of all these meetings and what i really see the most is a lack of urgency on any of the stuff being discussed and i get that it's difficult i get there's huge things to take care of i understand that there's policy and procedure and all that but at the same time we have we have things that we need to fix uh it's july 29th for the thurston protest we haven't heard anything much at all yet uh the uh temporary housing and all that um as someone else mentioned you know we have that crisis year-round not just in the cold weather time but yet this whole work meeting was basically the whole first hour was just uh yeah yeah we'll uh we'll come back to

2:29:14 that uh first in protest nothing is seems to be moving forward and i feel like it's kind of the definition of the privilege that a lot of the people here doing this stuff are sharing and feeling is that this needs to get done and all we keep hearing in these council meetings is we'll get to it next time we'll we'll talk about that next time arguing over the amount of time people can talk and speak and just everybody we need to get this done people's lives are at stake people's livelihoods are at stake everything is at stake and we have been here now for two and a half hours and about two hours of that feels like really unproductive wasted time unpreparedness people not really knowing what

2:29:59 direction they want to go comments about how many rvs can be there as if that would be an eyesore that's at least how i perceive that comment uh these are people's lives that need help and it's not happening and all we keep hearing is we'll get to it next time we'll talk about it again next time uh the council has an opportunity to appoint a new mayor and we're then going to potentially just wait two more months because we already waited too long to fix this issue it's already been two months so we'll just go ahead and push it for two more months that's ridiculous people should have a chance to vote on this especially when some of the people who are running for it are not necessarily the best people for

2:30:44 it i'll just leave that at that um this is like the fifth meeting in a row now that i've been to and it feels like we have not had a single successful resolution a single piece of helpful information a single actual action step taken it has been a whole bunch of deliberation and we'll get to it eventually can we really try to get some of this stuff done we need help we need help more people are tuning in than ever i'm imagining i would guess that you don't typically have seven speakers when everything is going well um or however many people listening there's a reason for that and that's because people are looking to you to finally help us and nothing seems to be going anywhere we'll just get to it in two months and then january we'll just go and take it on thank you

2:31:34 thank you thomas and i can't say with just a little bit of excuse that government time sometimes is surprisingly snail's slow and we try to keep it going as fast as we can and i apologize uh next next speaker neil the next speaker is uh dana herkin and dana hello thank you for the opportunity to comment my name is and i live in ward 1. at these meetings the citizens have been talking a lot about loss of institutional trust and what it takes to rebuild that trust and let me just say the decision to appoint a new mayor from a very shallow pool of applicants with very little time made for

2:32:19 consideration of substantial public input does not help rebuild trust with the community i'd also like to add that counselor pictionary who has submitted an application for mayoral appointment is on the brady list for lying during the course of a 2017 investigation into his financial double dipping he has been flagged as compromising any investigation he is involved with and deemed unable to take an oath and tell the truth this is a big deal these are not credentials that are appropriate for a candidate eligible to be our mayor for any period of time i implore you to please seriously consider this when casting your vote for the mayoral appointment your decisions as city councillors do

2:33:05 not occur in a vacuum they have real lasting consequences for real people and for our city the consequences of voting for counselor pictionary will be to only further and deepen the institutional mistrust already felt by many citizens of springfield in our current social political climate where citizens have been increasingly expressing their concerns regarding police conduct and accountability a vote for counselor pictionary would be a betrayal thank you thank you dana next speaker please also the next speaker is chris mcallister and chris uh your microphone should be

2:33:51 unneeded welcome back chris thanks members of the council the chris mcallister award three first of all i'd like to say hear holly her words were strong yet like usual we speak and we are not heard she there's no comment our government is missing we want to hear how these decisions are made what is going on and when our voices matter mayor lundberg stepping down is a big deal she stepped down for her own personal reasons her son's actions are not her actions but it left a vacuum our people spoke in the last election for the people who stood to be counted and that said we need to actually reach out and understand where our community

2:34:36 is at for years we've asked listen to us take care of our poor take care of our weak help our displaced help our struggling businesses yet we speak and there's no comment there's only votes and process and scheduling and rescheduling and votes and process we need to have responsive reactive and proactive government we need to have our voices restored so the trust can be built at a recent protest at city hall there were weaponized shields there were screws put through pieces of wood and these quote-unquote signs were built like riot shields yet there was no process for that there was no way to say hey why do you

2:35:21 have weaponized people on this site trying to say that all lives matter it doesn't show that all eyes matter when people are allowed to have weapons that say nice slogans but are sharp and used to prove that we are not welcome to conversations that are different we are not welcome to people who are different in this community and i think the one of the ways to be able to show that that's not true is to start speaking after people speak to you to show that you hear to actually draft ideas that are meaningful that know that we need better who i trust and work with almost all of you the ones that we don't get to hear from are the ones who we can't build trust with you know who you are when you've been down to the shelters when you've helped

2:36:06 take people to things that they need when you've donated to causes and when you give time if you don't know what's going on on the streets of springfield then maybe you should come down eagan's not the only answer and neither is these votes in this process please be of the people for the people have an election change the charter or pick someone outside of the group here represent all of your awards proudly and then run in 22. we need something different not the same old same old thank you thank you chris next speaker neil answer the next speaker is holly shaper and holly just give me a moment here to get to your microphone

2:37:13 okay um we're having a little trouble with holly's microphone it appears so we'll go to the next speaker and holly then we'll come back to you the next speaker is jennifer smith and jen in just a moment okay go ahead hello my name is jennifer smith i'm a past springfield homeowner and springfield real estate investor i'm a past precinct captain for the republican party of lane county i'm currently living in rural lane county near the springfield eugene metro area members of the council any decision to appoint joe pissionary as mayor

2:37:58 who is well known to the community as an ex-sheriff's deputy and brady lister at a time when the most controversial and expensive issue facing the city of springfield are springfield police department's excessive use of force lawsuits and even more pending legal action seems like it would send the wrong message to community members this is a move that would obviously lead to further division in springfield for this reason counselor pictionary i urge you to withdraw your name from the running and counselors i urge you to choose someone who's better equipped to provide impartial leadership and to unify our city during this civil and human rights crisis i also note that this decision is being

2:38:44 considered with very little public publicity or opportunity for public comment i urge you to rethink your approach and to open this position up to leaders in the community who are better qualified immediately and they be transparent while you interview them or you amend the city charter to allow for the public to vote in january in closing please for the sake of springfield vote no on joe tonight i yield the remainder of my time thank you jennifer next speaker neil okay if you don't mind we'll see if we can get holly's microphone back up hello it's fine hear me here yes holly

2:39:29 go ahead all right uh good evening my name is holly shaper and i live in ward 2. so tonight you will be pointing our next mayor someone who will forever have held that title and will have been appointed to the highest office in the city but your votes alone i would urge you to consider who comports themselves in a mayoral way with honesty integrity and empathy who treats others fairly and with respect regardless of their circumstances additionally the subject of police accountability has repeatedly come up in the last several months first there was the historic wrongful death settlement in july followed by the settlement with the former lieutenant in september both of these settlements cost taxpayers significant amounts of money

2:40:15 in our future we have the independent investigation and any additional lawsuits brought as a result of the treatment of peaceful protesters by spd clearly police accountability is a big pending issue from both community trust and financial well-being perspectives if you are committed to rebuilding trust and making progress on police accountability i also urge you not to appoint counselor pictionary who was placed on the da's brady list for lying during an investigation into his own misdeeds he was found by the district attorney to have likely committed theft in the second or third degree and official misconduct in the first degree so during a time of unprecedented crises and very low institutional trust does it make sense to vote to appoint a former deputy

2:41:00 sheriff who resigned in disgrace after being placed on the brady list and who failed to even mention police accountability in his application would this appointment help the continued efforts to rebuild trust or would it destroy any momentum you have gained and indicate that you are just fine with the status quo it is beyond imagination that you are currently considering this while also trying to figure out how much taxpayer money the city will be paying to end the lawsuit brought by another brady listed individual current spd officer ryan stone and all of this one day after the washington post's front page story detailing the toxic culture within spd which allowed for a traffic stop to escalate in a brutal and unnecessary way ultimately leading to the spd's crisis intervention training

2:41:46 officer killing stacey kenney springfield needs a mayor with integrity honesty and empathy one who will take action to implement real police accountability please choose a mayor with stated priorities appropriate for the myriad of issues facing us please choose a mayor with values and ethics deserving of the title please choose a mayor who will move this city in the right direction thank you thank you holly neil do you have anyone else uh we have three speakers remaining um your next speaker is june father gill and junior microphone should be ready thank you uh june paul again i spoke to you

2:42:31 earlier and i did forgot to say something and i'm not going to say much about the mayor decision how about that but what i would like to say is that i think it's very important not to limit the number of rvs i think every property owner will make their own limit based upon the needs of their property and we can trust them to do that and you don't need to take care of that please don't do that thank you i know you decided you did vote for it the way it was but don't do it down the road either it's not necessary and because we will we will look at our property and we'll say this is what we can do this is what we can't do and every property owned will do that thank you that's all thank you june

2:43:18 and we can make modifications down the road we're always open for that next speaker neil next speaker is elizabeth utterback and elizabeth um if you on mute your microphone should be ready there you go hi everyone my name is lizzy utterback and i live in ward 3. this is going to sound funny but i want to tell you about a trip i made to the grocery store a couple months back so i get there and i realize i forgot to grab a mask from home it was okay because there was a crumpled up one in the back seat of my car i put it on and while i'm shopping i noticed my throat becomes irritated and i notice a smell that seems faintly memorable but i just can't place it and as i'm checking it out it hits me

2:44:04 this was the mask i was wearing weeks earlier at a protest where while spray was deployed i wasn't close to where it happened was more than 15 feet away from me but that's exactly what the smell was then i thought about what it must be like to be sprayed head on what it would be like if it got in my eyes and directly on the skin of my face i think about what it would be like if that happened because i believe black lives matter what it would be like if that happened in front of police and no assistance offered or justice thought what it would be like if i heard the police make excuses for not taking action what it would be like if when it was reported to the springfield police advisory committee the committee said they do not oversee

2:44:50 the police and what it would be like later to hear from the city council that they don't either put it frankly this exercise of putting myself in other shoes which i consider to be an important quality for my elected by the way angered me because this is a true story and the aggressors continually intimidate us and they continue to do so with the assistance of spd if you don't know what i'm talking about i can send you a picture of the police collaborating with these dangerous people in front of thurston high school at this past weekend's truck parade which was on main street you know the street that is really dangerous where chief lewis doesn't want people to demonstrate and where these trucks proceeded to run red lights anyways these quote patriots will continue to ramp up their

2:45:36 intimidation and violence until council takes a firm stand taking a firm stand means holding the police accountable and doing so bravely and publicly i'm angry that council designed a process where ex-sheriff's deputy councilor christianeri was able to put his name forward to be considered for the mayoral appointment even though he was found by the dea to be so untruthful that his testimony wouldn't hold up in court if he was called to be a witness additionally i want to note that his responses to the application questions for mayor are strikingly silent regarding policing issues the city currently faces i want you to know that the community is watching very closely and may it be understood that a vote for joe is a vote for a continued culture of

2:46:23 corruption it's a vote that betrays our city and we need you to do better thank you thank you lizzy neil how many do you got one more we have one more our it looks like our final speaker is kirsten vignetta and kirsten just let me get your microphone here you should be able to unmute on your side and be ready to go good evening counselors my name is kirsten vignetta and i live in ward 2. as holly mentioned just a bit ago two days ago springfield made national headlines in a washington post article titled fatal police shootings of mentally ill people are 39 percent more likely to take place in small and mid-sized areas

2:47:10 the article opens with the final moments of stacy kenny killed by springfield police in 2019 a killing which naturally devastated kentucky's family and led to a lawsuit which the family won as you know the same police force is now being externally investigated for excessive use of force during the black lives matter protest in thurston on july 29th we find ourselves in a politically and socially delicate moment in which there is deep division and in which the structure of our institutions is being put into question we need leadership that will commit to racial equity to helping those experiencing crises with a social origin and a holding police accountable and better yet implementing alternatives to policing

2:47:56 for non-violent calls solutions that actually get to the root of emergencies based not on aggression but on empathy empathy something that is vastly underrated and certainly rare in the current political climate to choose an interim let alone a future long-term mayor without these issues as top priorities is to be extremely short-sighted and to do our city a serious disservice in tonight's agenda packet only two of the contenders mentioned these issues in any capacity sherry moore and sean van gorden i urge the council to take this into account as you decide who should lead this city and address some of the most pressing issues of our time thank you

2:48:43 thank you very much so uh any more speakers to confirm that new concert pictionary and speakers within city hall and no one left online who wishes to speak on this issue thank you sir uh next item please um is there a council response i'm sorry yes jerry moore i i just wanted to say um thank you to those people who spoke and to those people who are just listening in um i appreciate the fact that when i'm able to kind of broaden our um the ability to speak to people through this format although it doesn't work real well sometimes uh and i do appreciate all the emails

2:49:29 that we've received because we have and i do read them and today i didn't get around to commenting to all of them but i will but i just you know i think that all of us read those comments those emails that we receive and so i just wanted to let you know that thank you sherry and i uh yeah and counselor ben gordon but i want to reiterate too that i i read every single one of them and i do you know it's not always fun but i do appreciate what people are saying and i do take it to heart so councilman gordon go ahead um i think i echo what like what everybody's saying about reading the reading the correspondence one of the things i hear a lot is sometimes you don't hear directly from from us back um so we read them

2:50:17 um one thing i do want to mention that came up a couple of times um is specifically referring to sort of acts of violence and political protests i don't you know um i i think we we've said it a couple of times but in the country we have a right to our first amendment and people regardless of political affiliation should be able to use their first amendment right to talk about political issues without fear for their safety without fear for their physical harm or mental harm or being being abused right so when i hear stories about you know um weapons on the street um you know osprey right like we had a big conversation about about bear spray i think two weeks ago i just want to make sure it's clear that my position as a counselor is that i expect the

2:51:04 police to enforce the law regardless of who it you know who it's against right they are an unbiased arbitrator in this and you know as a as an elected official they need to investigate everything and if people broken the law or harmed people they need to be held accountable for that or a law order city and i just want i i want to make sure that that portion is clear because i keep hearing people come back and talk about their concern that we're not enforcing the law equally and i think it's important that we say you should be able to use your first amendment we have standards in the community you it is not okay to use violence against people thank you council van gorden count some more can i just say too that um i think our

2:51:51 first speaker talked about the fact that we're not doing anything and we have hired somebody to investigate and he's on he's now working on that and we did tonight pass a resolution to allow um rvs to be parked uh in driveways and next to houses and to help alleviate some of the housing and so i realize we move slowly at times but we are we do do something and i just wanted to point that out i hope it doesn't sound like i'm being defensive thank you councilman any other comments uh counselor mo go ahead i've spoken several times that i'm very

2:52:37 disappointed at how slow the process is going as a counselor i'm finding out that sometimes there's not much we can do things have to be transparent they have to be done legally they have to be done in such a way that the public knows what we're doing and how we're doing it and it just takes time to do it like city council meetings bring things up we have to get two weeks notice before we discuss something and then two weeks notice before we discuss something else and a lot of time goes by i don't like that but i right now i i'm not sure of any other way to do it yeah joe yes go ahead uh marley uh steve just basically said what i was just going to say in regards to

2:53:22 the we have we need to go back and forth with staff to get all the information for a lot of our conversations um and so that too adds to the time it's not for lack of energy or drive or wanting to get something done um it's the fact that there are all different there's so many different parts that have to come together in order to be able to make that legal resolution or make that legal ordinance and we at the same time we have to make sure that we are fair with the entire community and not just a a segment or a um a a single voice we have to make sure that the whole community is being considered so it it i i can

2:54:09 understand if i were on the other side and not seeing it from this side i can certainly empathize with what um with what has been voiced and what has been said but i but there is if there's a there's a process and sometimes it's very difficult to to deal with uh the time it takes thank you councillor woodrow and councillor steer go ahead uh thanks joe um i am i'm appreciative of everybody's words tonight and i would like to say that i i hear conflicting goals being put forth for us i'm hearing that we should move quickly and i'm hearing that we should move

2:54:54 judiciously and i think to an extent those two goals are always going to be in fundamental conflict we are going to have to make hard decisions of course at the council and it's not always possible to make a quick decision and a judicious decision the wheels of government turn slow but they do turn i'd like to also say that i those of you who have listened to these last few meetings know that i share a number of the concerns of the people who have spoken tonight and i'm hoping that we can discuss some more of those as the discussion of who to put in charge of the

2:55:40 council or to preside over the council for the rest of the year i'm hoping that we can address a number of those issues thank you any more responses to the public comment okay next item neil answer the next item is business from the city council item number one the mayor vacancy process mary bridget smith is here for the staff report uh hello counselors this is a continuation of the discussion we had at work session about um filling the mayor vacancy i thought what i might do is just recap

2:56:27 what i understood from your discussion um at the work session and then see if you wanted to continue from there if that works okay works for me i got head nods so yes ma'am okay okay sounds good all right so um we uh started the discussion talking about um filling the uh council vacancy and the concept that there's the current term and the next term and the council was focusing on how to address the current term i'm seeing as it's getting to the end of the year and the new term starts uh relatively shortly counselor van gorden had asked the question about incorporating um the new future ward 3 counselor

2:57:12 into the process i had it and that i think was also part that i had explained for the next term that starts in january the actual swearing-in for that needs to occur in january uh councillor woodrow explained that she had done something similar when she was a counselor-elect i think in this situation if the council um gave us this direction we could reserve some time for your last meeting in december december 7th and see if the council elect for ward 3 would be open to participating couldn't take any official action but could participate in a discussion if you wanted to head that direction and then counselor woodrow was talking again about the current term having a very short time period and

2:57:58 suggested herself as a nominee for the council president pro-tem to assist um counselor prisoner where he's assuming the duties of mayor here at the tail end of 2020 leaving the council open then to move forward with appointing for the next term um and then we would have your meeting on january 4th is scheduled to do the swearing-in for the next term for awards um let's see that would be uh 3 4 and 6. i just wanted to correct that or clarify that that my that my idea was to just to maintain status quo um

2:58:50 at the moment and if we needed to since i didn't have my hat in the ring that i would i would be willing to propose myself for council president pro tem but not to um not to have any uh assuming of or not having putting anybody in the mayor interim mayor to the end of the year i was just want to clarify what i said understood okay i'm sorry go ahead i didn't mean to cut you off go ahead mary bridget oh no you didn't i was just going to turn it back over to you okay thank you um i think i'm trying to get the wheel of government to move faster maybe who knows so i uh counselor more

2:59:36 did you want to say something first i'm sorry i'm sorry what did you want to say something first you started to say something and i raised my hand well it's you know usually i'm trying to be um showing some good etiquette and and allowing folks on the council to speak before i do um but i do want to just throw this out there for the council to consider is that um we have a total of like seven meetings left for the rest this year um we have uh some individuals out there that have raised concerns i've heard them i i don't want to be part of a a city the city is most important to me and that i want the smooth operation the

3:00:21 city to continue and that i see that the path for that is to i agree with counselor woodrow is to continue as we have and that will give us the time to make a selection at the end of the year and um and just move on and that's what the city needs to do so but i'm totally open for comments but i'm willing to do that as opposed to uh taking an appointment as uh as interim mayor for the remainder of the year i'll i'm gonna go uh uh counselor moore had her hand up before i did before i jumped on there but and then counselor steer after that okay so what i'm hearing you say is that you'd be willing to continue to act as

3:01:07 interim mayor until the end of the year and you act i hear people talking about well we only have six meetings left hopefully the mayor does more than preside in a meeting that's my understanding we have been more than two months since christine resigned in making this decision and i was concerned about why we were taking so long making this decision but then i finally figured out as i went through a whole lot process this uh weekend that part of it had to do with the fact that if you were to accept a position as interim mayor you would have to give up your council seat and so that would apply to sean it doesn't affect leonard and it doesn't affect you joe

3:01:53 because both you are going to be sworn in at the beginning of the year to your council seat it doesn't affect me because i am not going to be sworn in i'm retiring and so therefore giving up my council seat wouldn't necessarily be an issue we could fill it with the person who was elected to take my seat but in the meantime we have been moving along talk about slowly it has been more than two months and now we're at the point of we're saying okay city it's fine that we just scoot on along without appointing a mayor to take this last um two and a half months or two months i don't know how much time

3:02:40 and i feel really frustrated about that and so i would like to call for a vote if that's in fact what this council wants to do then i think that each one of us should stand up and be counted in saying that we accept the fact that joe is going to serve as interim mayor basically until the end of the year i had 22 emails in the last three days asking me not to confirm joe as mayor i also had four asking me to do that and i had four asking me to confirm sean although sean says he doesn't want to be interim mayor until the end of the year i had one for leonard and two for me so

3:03:26 we talked about transparency but it doesn't seem like we're actually listening to what the public is saying to us can i can i i want to clarify again i did not say joe is interim mayor joe right now as assumed as council president has assumed responsibilities but he has not been interim mayor and i wanted to clarify that that is not what i that is not what i said i realized that but what i'm saying is is joe acting as mayor or not this council president is he acting as mayor taking he's taking the responsibilities but he's not he's not title and mayor he's not titled his mayor but is he acting as mayor i'm asking that as

3:04:11 a legal question um mary bridget maybe you could unders you could tell me that is he not fulfilling the job of mayor at this point in time he is signing documents he's running meetings he's representing the city as the mayor of springfield is that correct or not he is i can answer that i am not representing the city as mayor just so you know that's been very clear at all meetings and commissions absolutely go ahead mary bridget you can answer if you wish uh i was just going to add that um constipationary in his role as council

3:04:56 president is assuming the duties of mayor um but he has not been appointed as the interim mayor country steer you is that all you have counsellor moore thank you council steer uh thanks counselor pictionary um i just wanted to run back through the process that we used to get to this point um the options that we considered for naming a new mayor the first option which would have been my preferred option would have been to hold an election to change the charter and then assuming that the

3:05:42 measure to change the charter passed then we could hold a special election for the mayor option two was to open the pool of applicants to include the springfield community and again that was rejected we have a third option now which is the one that we're operating under and given the pool of candidates and the time frame involved i'm finding that the best option right now is for counselor pictionary to continue to preside in his current capacity as president of the council over the remind remaining seven meetings of the year i um he's been capable in his duties of running these meetings and i trust that he grasps the urgency

3:06:30 of the task that we have before us of creating and restoring trust in our police department and in our city government and um i again i would like to impress upon the people who spoke tonight that they uh consider how imperative it is that we make good decisions not just hasty decisions thanks thank you uh counter steer counselor mo i i am understanding that you you're not a candidate for being mayor as of the person of the year right me no yeah okay i want people to know that because oh yeah now i got voted with 68 of the vote as counselor and i take that

3:07:15 as marching orders right for ward 6. and that is where my heart lies and that's where my duties lie i'm just about keeping the city pointed forward the ship upright and and making sure we get some things done in the meantime thank you i'm sorry sean go ahead all right what steve were you done yeah um look i think this is one of the weirdest conversations that we've had in a long time right because the nature of the date you know and the terms and how and how the election landed is very much made this about ten times more complex than it's had to be um my part like you know

3:08:01 sherry brought up the fact that you know i'm like i'm interested in 2021 um i really don't want to go into the sort of half in half out right like that's sort of where the work or the future what like lies about where this decision is going to be on cape like i'm comfortable um continuing where we're at given a couple of things right like given that we look at a little bit more of a published plan to get to get us from point a to point b and that we start actually having you know like a you know a conversation we started to put some of this this stuff in place about what do we do with the ward 3 council seat when it comes up what i would suggest is if we're going to go forward in this setting

3:08:47 is that like we come back and actually approve a process and i don't know if it's in november or whatever it is but give people some dates that we're working towards so we get the thing done my biggest concern is that we're going to keep just sort of pushing this down the road and then you know we're going to essentially burn daylight when it comes to when it comes to 2021 um when we can actually have the conversation i have the conversation in a way that makes some sort of sense so i would tell i guess that's my my request number one or the assignment to the council leadership team the or the staff the um the the request number two is that i'm good with mary lee um being pro-10 i don't know what pro 10 council president i don't know that

3:09:32 we're going to fit it on a business card here but i think um i think what i would ask joe and marilee to come back with is actually some sort of conversation and of course you know with with staff's help path through like how do we even tackle like how do we even understand and tackle the police issues we're having them we're having them in an ad hoc kind of conversation and i think it's going to get lost in the fact that we're in this sort of political transition and just to drive a little bit of clarity so just to wrap up i i'm comfortable doing what we're doing given that we actually show what like how we're going to get from point a to point b so that we actually get to a point we've got to make a decision right we can't just keep finding this down the road

3:10:18 long term joe go ahead counselor woodrow um it and and coming in um after sean's comments the possibility of uh in including the councilor elect um after the election um we could set a date in november to have the discussion a set you know so that we are setting a date um to to get into this um and make a decision or or project uh you know follow through with what sean suggested um did i did i get you right sean yeah um and we have the material right

3:11:03 just to come back with here's the date here's the actual process to come through you know voting process so that we feel feel like we're going to get to a date we're actually going to make it you know i don't i know mary bridge is going you can't vote until january but we've got to give the community some sort of certainty here yes uh council uh councilwood are you done yes okay councilman i'm happy to resign after the election after my replacement is uh voted in and we could then make that counselor if you're willing to appoint that counselor to that to my resume if i resign that would be an open seat you could account account appoint that counselor to that seat and

3:11:49 then they could officially participate in the discussion and everything thank you um sorry from here just to be clear um and that's what we've done historically and i know that there's a ton of people sort of work like you know trying to clarify like understand what's going on i i would be supportive of that right regardless of if it's attached to what our plan is to how to get to talk about city council but like sherry if after the election you decided like that you were ready and the new person was gonna come in that's it that's an easy yes for every i would assume for everybody joe thank you sean and go ahead uh

3:12:35 complicated you can't see me waving um when it happened with me before fred was still counselor but he sat back and and put me at the table to participate in the process um we didn't need to have fred's resignation he just sat back and and you know um at the time it was at the time it was i think sid was still mayor at that time and he presided over the meeting and um it was just it was just he just they just everybody approved okay we'll do it that way since we can't vote in january until january um sherry wouldn't have to go through that formal process we could do it this a similar way that was done before and have that person be part of the

3:13:20 conversation whatever whatever anybody would want to choose to do thank you merlin so um mary bridget yes right here is your mind swirling yet she didn't run for the door yet so we should keep um looking at the calendar listening to what you're talking about i think what i'm hearing is um uh wanting to have a combination i think kind of some of what cancer share was talking about some um urgency and moving it forward but also um some talking to the um

3:14:07 public and informing the public about the process and also incorporating the new future counselor from ward 3. so looking at the calendar the election is tuesday november 3rd i think that means your next regular meeting is november 16th um but i can i can confirm that but we can see about getting once the election is sorted out having a it would probably be a special meeting or a work session asking counselor elect to attend um and then uh that person can give input into the following the process for appointing the interim mayor um and then also you know when you

3:14:53 choose from amongst the council you create a vacancy in the council and then the process for selecting uh that vacant position in the council right and that may be one where you want to go out to the public or have some more public process about how that would work yes yes councilman gordon so um i would be 100 clear on that that if what it look if whatever that council replacement process has to be as wide of net as possible so we can't we cannot go out and pluck somebody um you know you know that may be connected or something and it's got to be a pretty a pretty invite to it um uh applied per uh process

3:15:40 and then um i would just add one note and again i'm looking for some head nods here i do not think we need to recreate a bunch of content about like questions and where people are at i think we've got that that information even though we have to clarify the actual process meaning we've got our our q and a are getting from people who are interested yeah so you could use the information you developed for the interim mayor for the potential new counselor and whatever award really the issue would be getting the applications to getting the word out and getting them in is that what you're saying i think i was saying that if if we came back after in in november um that they that we shouldn't go and ask people to

3:16:26 apply to be mayor again i think the whole council the whole council replacement process is a whole other bag of tricks right like that that we just need to know tell people pretty clearly up front that that we've got to go we need to cast the net pretty wide for that okay understood and then just so i'm clear you're comfortable though talking about that process potentially in november and december i i think well just want to add a little bit to that mary bridget as far as before we issue some edict is that um for me it seems logical to um we don't want to go out and try to

3:17:11 we have a replacement counselor um right off the bat i think that's step two and i need to get we need to get to step a and so i think with that that being said that i think that even even the last meeting of the year we can get the mayor position resolved taken care of and that the first of the year we can pick up the council position and that way it during that month period of from our last meeting till clear through the january 4th we can look and see and recruit or whatever however process we want to do and find that find that person that we want to

3:17:56 place and that will allow the new counselor to be part of that selection process and frankly if we try to do it that soon after the election does the new counselor have to have their election results certified prior to us acting as if they are the counselor so is that a that's something that has to happen too i would assume i i think i think that's a those are good points what i was just trying to get at is it okay for us as staff to start preparing um and asking you questions about the process for appointing the new counselor in november and december like put together a timeline or potential things like that so joe's process is out there joe yeah i got you merrily go for it um

3:18:42 i was thinking that um don't we have a when we go out to recruit for commissions and committees and that don't we have a time frame for the announcement of the open position uh that we let the people know that there's a that this is open and they're you know that they can apply don't we have a time frame that we have to meet um you have a time frame it's uh you have one that you've developed over the years about that yes and i think that would that would be appropriate i think unless unless we're too short but i don't think it is um i think i think that would be appropriate for uh the uh getting that information out there amongst the community um for whatever award it turns out to be

3:19:27 for the for uh people to be able to apply from that ward um i think we could i think it's i i guess i'm saying that in order for you to have the opportunity to look at that and see if that fits okay yeah i know that's helpful um i think that would be a good that could be a good template to work off of thank you uh counselor woodrow uh mary bridget are you good now do you think um i think let me just repeat back to you what i think our direction is and then hopefully um sorry let's see if we get close no that's okay it's no problem so um i think what i

3:20:13 heard was that the council um uh council missionary for the very short term will remain as um council president assuming the duties of mayor the council will look at appointing a counselor uh uh president pro tem to assist in the short term um and then you would like us to um find some time after soon after the election uh and asked the councilor elect for ward three um to have time where this council can meet and you're interested in having a um process um that's quite clear and transparent with the public you're going to move forward with appointing the interim mayor and then

3:20:58 also subsequently the um interim counselor for whatever vacant whatever award has the vacancy um and then uh council van gorden made a point that once the account of the president pro tem is appointed that the um conservationary and the president protest keep this issue of police accountability on the front burner and reporting back to the council does that sound that's pretty amazing you got it go ahead go ahead counselor van gorden um one slight twist another one is that i think the goal out of november is to be clear on processing dates and

3:21:45 not like not have any process and date questions left over going into that last that last meeting into december so that everybody's got a full month with all the material what we're actually going to do um the one thing i didn't like about the meeting format today was if we really got into it we really didn't understand the seven layers of questions we had to decide and we weren't really clear on the process and i think i would say we've got to be done with that and clear on it and then have just decide on whatever the december date is okay got it that's good feedback i appreciate that i'm okay with that head nods nodding head nodding heads okay i i see

3:22:31 that um sherry has dropped off so we can reflect that on presence of who's on who's president oh there she is you have to say three times i got scared all right she's doing what i want to do eating dinner your microphone's not on sherry oh sorry i'm having dinner yeah okay you scared me you went away i didn't like that okay um so mary bridget you are now good is that correct i'm good with i have my direction for the interim mayor i do need you though while we're all here is to um nominate and um

3:23:16 vote and appoint the council president pro tem uh to assist the council president and that's the um that's the temporary changes to the council operating policies and procedures which is item number two under business from the city council okay i moved the mayor lee woodrow sirs counselor president pro tem until the end of the year uh until the end of 2020. okay uh i but uh joe could i just cut in for a second

3:24:01 should we have some a little bit of discussion sean so go ahead uh leonard yeah i just want to make sure i understand this i my understanding was that you were council president um and so council president pro tem would just be um a subordinate to you in your capacity i'll second that okay so just helping helping me with some meetings and also agenda review so that way it's not totally on all over me and then also uh for example i may not be available the next meeting and need someone that's already appointed to uh conduct the meeting that's all that's what that position is

3:24:48 so i have a motion by councillor van gorden seconded by councillor steer it may have been a co-second by a counselor mo but i don't know so we have a motion on the table and it's been seconded i call for a vote by roll call all right counselor van gorden yes counselor yes councillor moore no sponsor stare yes counselor woodrow yes in counselor pictionary yes so the motion carries five to one

3:25:35 uh next item just real quick now that you've selected the person i also need resolution number four a resolution temporarily changing the springfield city council operating policies and procedures appointing a counselor to serve as council president pro tem a motion to approve or not approve that temporary change to your rules i'm sorry mary bridget i just saw that too so i'll entertain a motion to for approval of resolution number four got a motion second i got us uh when i give that second to counselor mo

3:26:20 all in favor signify on roll call counselor van gorden yes counselor mo yes counselor moore yes councillor stare yes councillor woodrow yes and council missionary yes so the uh resolution number four has passed and so go with next item please and so the next item is any additional business from the council

3:27:06 anyone us cops or mo go right ahead i just want to speak to what we what we just did there's a lot of people out there that are going crazy right now with what we're doing but i assure you we have them in mind and it's going to take some time and i have their interest in heart and i'm going to tell you i'm going to be working on those issues that they're concerned about as hard as i can so thank you thank you council remote anyone else merely i don't see you waving your hand no no thank you okay next item please next item is business from the city manager item number one storm system revenue bond refunding resolution number five a resolution of the city of springfield lane county

3:27:51 oregon authorizing the sale of storm system revenue refunding bonds and nathan bell is here for the staff report good evening council on the item in front of you this evening is a request to adopt not adopt a resolution authorizing the cell of storm system revenue refunded bonds this is a pretty straightforward item i do want to mention though that because it was under 10 million we had the option of doing a bank placement or a public offering it was recommended to us by our financial advisors that the bank placements were competitive with the public offerings but are significantly less work

3:28:37 and so we went that route at the time of putting together this ais we hadn't received any of those proposals back from the banks we since have and sat down with our financial advisors and went over a summary of those the savings that's noted in this ais of 720 000 was based on a estimated interest rate of 1.5 percent uh our lowest rate that came back from the bank was 1.2 percent which is uh one we will move forward with so the savings are actually going to be 820 000 rather than the 720 000. uh with that i'll turn it over to you for questions thank you doesn't sound like too bad of news to me any questions from council no okay thank you uh merrily

3:29:25 i have no questions on nate so i would entertain a motion for uh resolution number five i moved that we adopt resolution number five second uh counselor mo it's counselor woodrow had made the motion and seconded by counselor mo all those in favor signify at roll call counselor van gorden yes councillor milo yes councillor moore yes sponsor stare yes counselor woodrow yes constipationary yes next item uh any other business from our city

3:30:11 manager no further business thank you thank you um any business from our city attorney no business thank you all right thank you very much everyone for uh this long meeting but we got a lot of done appreciate it i am adjourning this meeting thank you good night everyone good night