Springfield City Council — September 27, 2021

0:04 all right i'm going to call the springfield city council work session to order with roll call mayor van gorden here counselors pits here moe here rodley here stare here woodrow here and pissionary i'm here all right it looks like we have one item which is to interview for the lrap aboard with aj looks like it's the staff person so aj my uncomfortable entry to camera life good evening mayor and counselors thank you for your time this evening um our lrap aboard position for springfield

0:50 representative um we have two interviews tonight in your packet you receive the applications of three mr brandt has been removed from the candidate pool because he actually lives outside of the city limits which is a requirement of the bylaws and we we appreciated his application and interest um and i had a very good conversation with him and encouraged him to to see about other opportunities that have at large positions that he may be able to apply for our recruitment ran from august 11th through september 17th this position was vacated after uh the

1:35 current member gabrielle guidera resigned in july um because she moved out of the area or or out of the city limits um this particular term is a two-year term and will go till november of 2023 um and with the two applicants that you have which i can see are on the meeting tonight um if you choose either of the applicants you can ratify their position or appoint that one of them to the position at your october 4th meeting um so i will stop talking if you have any questions before we get started i'm happy to answer any of them does anybody have any questions

2:21 okay um with two applicants i'm just gonna go ahead and ask all the questions i know that you guys are gonna really just be you know running to ask questions on your own um but it seems like it works better in this uh in this format um so aj i think we're ready for the first applicant perfect so our first applicant is going to be mr fitzpatrick and i apologize i'm going to stop sharing for a moment i'll try not to make everyone sick but my controls move when i share my screen so bear with me here

3:14 so terry we do have you um if you unmute your microphone just perfect and if you're able to share your camera that would be wonderful but we understand if that doesn't work that's what i'm trying to try to figure out it's by it seems to be a block but i don't know what the issue is i apologize we may have to okay here it goes start my video there you go oh there you are hello terry hello hello so um the game plan for the day um usually we would do this as round robin um but with this being remote um i'm just gonna read the questions to you

3:59 and then they'll give people a chance to take some notes and we won't really hand you know be able to hand hand off the interview to anybody so if you're ready i'm gonna go ahead and get started as soon as the questions come back aj all right are you ready terry i am ready go right ahead fantastic so why are you interested in serving on the lrapa board of directors well several things one in general the air quality in lake county is is good uh with a few exceptions and one of the reasons i know that is because i've been following the air quality for years uh approximately 10 years ago i was diagnosed

4:44 with a lung disease caused by asbestos when i was in navy and i've got this uh did a lot of research a lot of uh gathered a lot of information about what affects my lungs and that brought me to arapa and it's been a great source of information and one of the things that i would like to do is continue the scientific study and data that delrap has been doing because if you look at it for example their 2020 report particulate matter things like that are down even when the the city of eugene population is rising so

5:31 i'd like to make the uh you know the air as clean as possible and keep it keep it going i've been very impressed with the work they've done okay describe your professional and personal experience as it relates to your desire to become a nail wrap-up board member oh okay well as i have already stated i was in the u.s navy and i served aboard a ship where i was exposed to asbestos of course at the time i was 17 years old and didn't know what asbestos was or what it did or anything like that so um my lugs started really affecting me probably 15 years ago

6:16 it was my wife who actually first noticed it and so that i've i've got a currently 100 percent disabled through the va system i have a very strong interest in especially asbestos uh because it's one of those things that you know it's it's easy to talk about you know we can all have empathy but until you actually experience it it's very difficult to understand the limitations and the things that happened like that with asbestos uh following i was following my time at the navy i was hired as a police officer i was a police officer for 24 years

7:02 i rose to the rank of detective sergeant i ran the financial crimes unit for many years i worked on various committees and boards not only in the state level but the city level also worked with student groups at the u of o around issues such as loud parties uh sexual assault things like that and i gained a lot of experience in dealing with different people and one of the things that i've always tried is even those that we may not agree upon everybody should be heard everybody gets a voice and as long as

7:47 they have that voice hopefully we can understand each other a little bit and not be as as angry at each other as we seem to be in our current political situation uh following my time in the police department i volunteered springfield vfw for five years as a veteran service officer that was somebody who helps veterans uh apply for and gain the benefits that they've earned i've done everything from life insurance quotes for veterans to appeals i even wrote my investigation was one that

8:34 uh believe it or not changed va policy towards agent orange and vietnam veterans uh regarding their exposure to it and these have given me a great opportunity to understand how to work with people how codes work not only you know legal codes but administrative codes and those things and one of the things that really drives me is even though i don't have the physical ability to do what i used to do but i still have the desire to serve the community and serve the city of springfield where i choose to live you know when i moved into the area 30

9:19 years ago i deliberately chose to move to springfield and i've raised my daughter there my wife and i have lived there for over 30 years and it's a great community and i just want to make it a little bit better all right perfect um i know you've covered a lot of your air quality and sort of community concerns um i'm just kind of kind of open up do you have any other sort of general areas of concern around community development or the environment that you want to speak to yes i do uh there are as i'm sure everyone here knows there's a wide variety of opinions on the environment in general and air quality there are people in our community that

10:06 feel that all developments should be stopped and i disagree with that i think that we can have responsible development along with keeping the air cleaner and as long as we continue to use the technology that's available and we continue to set reasonable standards i think we can have both and people may disagree but we can have development and have clean air and again the 2020 report shows that even though the city of springfield has gained in population air quality has improved

10:52 outside of the monthly arapah meetings what amount of volunteer time would you have to offer to work for work involving the arapa board yeah that shouldn't be a problem at all i'm currently a member of the board of directors at pacific cascade federal credit union i'm in the middle of a three-year term that takes me approximately anywhere from three to six hours a month and our monthly meetings are uh do not uh conflict with the lrapa meetings so that shouldn't be a problem and the rest of my time i've got a lot of honeydews that my wife has me do and and i stay busy but i shouldn't have any problem with the uh time issues

11:38 can you give us an example of your experience working with the committee absolutely two examples i had one when i was a fairly new officer in eugene i was assigned to the downtown i mean i apologize i was assigned to the university of oregon patrol and the big issue at that time was loud parties which i'm sure it's continuing to be a big issue and how does the police respond to that how does the university community respond what is their expectations and how things get done i worked together with u of o department of public safety different

12:23 various groups and we worked on different things we didn't come up with any great solutions but we did come up with expectations of what the police can do what the police can't do what the student population could do uh because i think i shocked him when i gave him the line i told him flat out the police don't want to come to your loud party but when it's loud and there's you know people that are defecating in your neighbor's yard and things are getting thrown around that's when we get called so we spent a lot of time educating trying to get them to understand why we come

13:08 how we come when we do what our expectations are and we also worked with a different program about [Music] cake enforcement which i don't know i don't know if you guys ever went to a cake party when you were in college but uh we were able to do some enforcement on that and we actually dropped loud party calls in the west university area by 65 percent after a year and we talked to a lot of the student groups and what the feedback we got was that yeah you know we're teaching or we're trying to teach our people to keep it a little bit quieter so you guys

13:53 don't come and that's great we've got better things to do also things that i worked with while assigned to the downtown association uh downtown safety committee i worked with everybody including the business association homeless advocates who were would come to the meetings various non-profits at time would come to the meetings we had everything from business owners to neighborhood associations and we all got together and we were discussing the various issues around that again we we came up with a few small solutions

14:40 the issue around homelessness is probably not going to get solved just by a small group of people but i think there was a lot of understanding and people at least we hopefully didn't see each other as adversaries all the time anymore and one of the reasons was i always let people voice their opinion even if i void even if i disagreed with it please name one way you can help inform our community about el rappa or lrapa projects well first of all i think covet has really put a a hurt on the outreach that already has done i've seen many things that they've done and i really agree with them such as going to um

15:25 you know trade shows business associations civic groups things like that one thing that i did find when i was working in detectives was it always amazed me we sat there we waited for the media to come to us for a long time but i find if we go if we have a story and we go to them and do more than just put out a press release and we say hey here is you know somebody who's willing to get in front of the microphone give an interview i found the media uh for the most part is very attuned to that they love that they love to have some somebody will step forward

16:10 and give an interview and that's one thing i would do and another thing i think that would be helpful is for people like me and people that have lung diseases i love the lrapa website but it's limited it should i mean we don't have to reinvent the wheel but let's add links to the best household cleaners for example in your house i don't know how many people know about that what you know certain cleaners can affect you if you have asthma certains are better for you open it up a little bit more and make it a little more holistic approach

16:58 perfect um how do you think the work of el rappa board will improve our community well you know i think it's already improved the community greatly uh and one of the things is following the scientific method and following what the data shows us for example the recent article in the register guard about seneca i know there was a lot of different understandings about that but el arapa went above and beyond by by having the public meeting even when they didn't have to and they showed the people and probably some people there that didn't agree with the decision but show them this is why we do it and this is why we did it um

17:43 and i do believe most people not all but most people if given the opportunity you talk to them straight and say this is what we did this is why we did it most people will understand it and they will support it perfect well thank you very much um so the plan from here on is that we're going to interview the next candidate and then we'll we will discuss you know on our choices and somebody will get back to you from from there all right thank you very much for your time and i really appreciate it you know thank you very much for your time thank you so much have a great day

18:42 mayor we are working now to um give william freeland access it will be just a moment and mr freeland it looks like you can unmute your microphone can you hear me now we can yes uh can you see me not yet okay let's see if this will do it i'm getting a cannot start video unfortunately let's see i do have my camera on

19:34 it's still giving me a fail to start the video camera and i'm not quite sure how to get that on we'll give it up probably one more chance here and um then we may just have to uh wing it from there okay uh okay hang on let me try one more time see if it works out and i'm still getting a failure on it even though my screen or my camera says it's on okay well let's try we got a little bit of time so we're going to try one more thing for you and then we'll

20:19 let's see if we can have you drop the meeting and come back in and if you get back on here and it's still not working i'll start firing the questions your way okay um [Music] see what standards mr freeland are you seeing a request from us to start your video yes it says the co-host has asked you to start your video when i hit that that is when it says it failed to start the video camera so let's turn my camera off and see if that comes up so here i'm going to try and turn my camera off and see if the request will

21:16 you know maybe have them leave and come back yeah would you mind mr freeland dropping off and then we'll we'll bring you back up the same link to get back in i will do that i'll get back on the link well now i've got a square with my name up let's see if i can start the video okay i'll drop off and see if i can start it again we'll see in a minute okay

22:02 i feel like we're pausing for station identification this city council meeting is brought to you by and it looks like we're still just waiting for mr freeland to be able to

22:48 get reconnected still haven't gotten the copyright to the jeopardy theme song so i apologize for the awkward silences i don't know that it's another public domain

23:42 has anybody ever read a book called endurance it was written about in 2000 apparently about this guy's um antarctic expedition and he got stuck in the ice with his crew for a year and they all made it they hiked out across the ocean when when you say trapped in the ice do you mean that they were literally mired in the ice or yeah the boat was frozen in the ice oh lord okay oh oh okay so the boat was frozen and they were sort of stuck with each other i got it yeah hello is that a metaphor for this

24:28 meeting is that what that's about really no i trying to pass the time until uh until i can get us back on track don't read too much into it corey hey cory i i think it's impossible not to take it as a metaphor all right hello um well we can see you now um do you go by william or bill uh bill's fine well can you hear me okay we can hear you okay so the game plan for this evening is um is uh i'm going to ask the questions um and we'll we'll just go down the whole order and the group's going to take the uh uh notes from there and then we'll we'll discuss from there so if you're if you're ready to get started uh

25:14 then i'll start firing away here yeah i am i listened to the uh previous interviewee so oh perfect then you're a pro at this already oh i won't say that why are you interested in serving on the lrapa board of directors well in particular when i saw the announcement i thought hey this is a way to continue to be able to serve my community in the area of environmental protection as i did during my career and my career was almost 38 years with the federal in federal service and that basically oh i retired in 2011 but a lot of the the work that i did although i was a trained biologist i really got into the the overall

26:02 picture of environmental protection and i hope you uh i also included my resume with my application i hope you all have been able to see that uh it used to be a much more detailed resume i kind of put it down but it's still about six pages long and so i've had a lot of experience in doing uh overall environmental protection but air quality was one of them and in particular when i was down at the yucca mountain project at the geologic repository i was working the uh the field environmental program out there and because i was also going down the uh test tunnel and taking vips down the test tunnel i

26:48 was included in and have been for the past 30 years the monitoring program both whole health and what in particular was respiratory issues that came from where might have come from the project which of course has included cancer uh so far i am free of that so that's that's good but that is one of the things that really interested me uh in looking at air quality and of course i chose springfield because i do believe it's an area that is uh a little more interesting in the way of of the community itself eugene of course can

27:35 can look at its university background and and all the people that are that live over there which is great i love eugene i was over there for a number of years after i retired i lived up by costco but i chose to buy a house here in springfield mainly because i like the area better i'm in an area that is a very mixed community [Music] i love the area it's i love my neighbors it's it's kind of just fun being over here and this is the uh of course i have lived here in this house for four years but i've also been in the pacific

28:20 northwest for my career pretty much since i got here uh to go to school back in 1970 and that day september 17 19 when i came into oregon it felt like i was coming home so when i retired and i was up at the up in alaska at the time that i retired from federal service i came back here to eugene and i thought this is where i'm staying well great so describe your professional and personal experience as it relates to your desire to become an l wrap up board member i know you've touched on some of it but this gives you a chance to sort of expand on places that that are particularly relevant well let me take

29:06 it in two parts here the first part would be the professional part and you said that you had my resume there and that responded you know with my professional experience and training in the area of environmental protection but let me give you a short example of that of actually what i've done in the field uh and this is kind of short and i've got many other examples that i could give you ad nauseam but during my work with bonneville power administration i had a chance to investigate a an incident where oil impregnated air filters at the columbia falls montana

29:51 aluminum plant were contaminated with pcbs everybody knows pcbs polychlorinated biphenyls bonneville had quite a few of them and one of my duties was to go out to one of our area offices and basically we started inventory all of inventorying all of our pcbs and that led to a program of getting rid of pcbs but going back to the the aluminum plant every time they changed the oil in their air filters they would test it for pcbs they would find pcbs there and of course that brought epa in and uh so they got in touch with me and

30:37 we talked about things but an obvious source of their pcbs was our pcb capacitors in the adjacent substation of course capacitors have a tendency to blow up and mist a lot of the the internal uh oil uh pcb mix into the air and that's where it was an obvious source that we thought was contaminating their air filters well based on that speculation bpa got rid of those capacitors we found out later or a little bit later that the the aluminum plants air filters were still being contaminated

31:22 and so we did a thorough search both within the plant and around the surrounding area for sources of polychlorinated biphenyls we didn't find any and i did a lot of uh coordinating with epa from their montana office and the the final conclusion that we came to was that those air filters were actually cleaning up ambient pcb levels that were coming at us just in the atmosphere kind of shocked all of us but that's the only thing then that would be the columbia plant uh bpa and epa we all came to that conclusion

32:07 and in many respects they helped the plant out because epa was kind of breathing down their necks to clean up things but then epa kind of backed off and said hey let's just keep monitoring that and see how much cleanup we can do so that's an example on the professional side of things and you can see that i did an awful lot of coordination with both the plant uh within our own system and bpa and with the epa and that's not an easy job yeah and it seems like you've had a lot of sort of really technical experience um but so could you maybe talk about the areas of concern you have specifically you know around air quality or our community development or the

32:52 environment in general right i can do that uh actually i was going to get to part two and that was the personal end of it so your question actually goes to that oh excellent i've always been concerned with the dust and the pollen and the ash and oh the air contaminants that seem to settle on my cars here in springfield i mean it's it's it's hard of course today's the day when everything washes off but when you come out in the morning and you see just a covering of dust a covering of whatever on your car and you realize that yes our air quality is good but it could be better

33:37 and that's especially this last year with the holiday farms fire and the fires that we're seeing this year has been a real concern of mine on the personal level what are we really breathing and taking into our lungs uh you know is it always coming from industrial sources is it coming from the environmental pollutants such as pollen uh the dust from the valley i mean i started my career helping farmers here in the lynn lane area back in the 70s and i learned a lot about that and of course at that time we were still burning fields so i've basically been able to see our air

34:23 quality issues throughout my career and of course i'm still seeing it we're not perfect down here we are good but i do think we can get better outside the monthly arapa board meetings what type of volunteer time do you have to offer for work involving the lrapa board well currently i'm a volunteer on odfw's fish screening board advisory task force and they meet three times a year so i don't see that as being a interfering subject i also volunteer for four hours each week and uh it's been friday afternoons but i can easily change that if necessary but i'm an interpretive

35:09 host with oregon state parks [Music] thompson's mills uh heritage site up at shed i don't know if you guys have ever been up there but it is a fascinating place and the history there is amazing so i thought i'd volunteer there so i do about four hours a week but it's it's flexible um can you really all you can see is after all of that i can work weeks like weekdays and weekends you know the only thing i have to have other than that is to do my laundry can you give us an example of your experience working with a committee um

35:54 with just committees i can give you examples of that yeah just in general about how you approach committee work yeah when i was living down an eagle point i volunteered as a a member for the parks and recreation board for the city of eagle point uh i had done that when i was living up in swim washington working at the olympic national park with their citizens advisory uh committee so that that kept me very interested in working on boards uh i don't know if it was fortunate or unfortunate but it was definitely fun uh the guys uh on the eagle point uh parks and rec commission voted me as chairman

36:39 and i ended up doing that for five years uh that that was amazing to work with that group because we were going through revising their master plans for parks parks and recreation and of course that had had kind of come to easy for me because i was working the master plan for the olympic national park when i was up there in swim washington so and there's there's been other times too i've i have organized and run over a hundred nipa the national environmental policy act meetings for the government and literally across the country i certainly ran the 30 public meetings

37:26 uh for the geologic repository down at yucca mountain and that was all over the country uh very enlightening and i can give you stories left and right from that but i was also uh the lead and staff to blm's advisory committee on the secure rural schools title ii expenditures and we we basically gave out over 17 million dollars over six years so i have been i've led i have organized i have led from behind i have stood out in front of the public i've had the public in my face yelling

38:11 at me and there are times when it's hard not to yell back but you do have to keep your cool on that one uh so i'm i'm very experienced with the public as well as committees so please name one way you would help inform our community about arapah and or el wrapa projects well when i first started looking at el rappa on the website i started noticing they have a great website i'm really impressed with it there are a lot of uh connections and links to other sites uh it is one site that i go to uh now

38:57 and again just to see what the air quality in the area is especially with all the wildfires that we've been having here i do think that they need to put in a link to the ncweb national website so that they can get little literally real-time information on wildfires i also check that website quite often but you know i'm impressed with their q and a's i'm impressed that they have podcasts that they have alert sign ups tips publications and i'm impressed that they have a citizen scientist program of course i am a scientist i'm also i won't say that i'm a political animal

39:42 but i definitely have had to deal directly with the politicos uh our representatives and all so i i am really impressed and i'm more than willing once i learn more of the lrapa programs and and of course i'd be have to be talking to staff to get intimately involved in that i don't mind standing up either with staff or in place of staff so that we can get information to the public i mean i'm a good meeting organizer i know how to collaborate and form cooperative efforts and i'm also good at mediation if it comes to that so how do you think the work about rappa

40:28 will improve our community well i do think that the lrapa board has got to take a stance that says are there regulations and programs have to be have to they have to ensure that it helps the program or it helps the communities grow and i wanted to mention that before because i i really have tried during my career in my own thoughts is that government and i do look at lrap as part of the government it needs to operate as a it can't operate as a business but it can operate in a business-like fashion with

41:13 input from both business and the social and economic parts of the people in the community and that means the board has got to make sure that they ensure that the regulations and programs are understandable that they're transparent and that there's a ready opportunity for the public to be part of it to be able to get to them talk with them and have input to them uh the board really in my view has got to have ensure the the balancing act that provides the needed uh issues uh the needed uh

42:00 solutions to the problems that we do view with air quality and i do believe it really is incumbent upon the board to be part of that and to help that balancing act between our social and our economic end of things perfect well thank you so much um that was the last question okay um we're gonna let you go and then um we're gonna have a discussion among ourselves and then we will get back um somebody will get back to you about what our decision is very nice to meet you thank you so much for your time it was nice seeing you all and and thank you for uh bearing with me as i go through zoom take care okay take care

43:03 well thank you very much i um listen to both of them very intently i can tell you uh you know what the needs of the board are what kind of what what type of if there's weaknesses and strengths in the board et cetera but um i think i like uh terry over the last one we have tons of of academia already at arapa we have scientists that work at el rapa we have lots of input we get a lot of input already i think it would be great to have the perspective of a citizen coming in with their own concerns and their own story as to why they want to be arapa and i think that uh terry would not have any preconceived notions in regards to uh air quality etc um so i think that would

43:49 that would for sure be my obvious pick i appreciate that the academia and and all the immense knowledge that the last candidate had but but i think as far as for the needs of the board i think the uh the first person we interviewed is his uh really feels that bill um much better leonard uh thanks sean um i uh i i found it sort of interesting that both of these candidates had uh an interest in air quality due to illnesses that they had that they had suffered and um they also have very impressive resumes as joe said mr freeland has 37 years as an environmental scientist with the

44:34 government and as far as i could tell mr fitzpatrick while certainly qualified for a great number of things including financial crime and that kind of thing doesn't have anything directly relevant to it and i i value expertise so i'd uh like to see mr freeland appointed thank you um i mostly just want to say that i really appreciated um actually all three of the folks who applied um because they all seemed really interested and qualified and passionate and i just really appreciate that and for the two folks who came and

45:20 interviewed tonight um and answered questions i just appreciate that we have folks in springfield that are so passionate about this and have so much experience that they're willing to give um and i hope that they hear that that i really am grateful that those are our neighbors um i am more inclined although i think both of them will be great and um i'm more inclined with um the first one um terry fitzpatrick just inter i was just thinking in terms of you know someone and their experience of working with a lot of folks with different personalities and being on a board or a committee or a commission folks who can kind of find the conversations that you can have can be really helpful in those situations i

46:06 appreciate um counselor pictionary sharing the makeup of the board because that kind of swayed me a little more realizing that there is a lot of that um scientific and and other information on the board currently and so to bring someone in who's got some sort of diverse experience could be nice so that's my opinion on it i can't find my hand to raise [Laughter] go ahead early um i i i thought both of them were highly qualified um to have a position on the board um i uh i listened to both of them and i appreciate as much as i appreciate the

46:52 expertise on the part of mr freeland um we do have um as joe said that the expertise on the board members and also the staff from el rappa and so i was looking at um what what impressed me with mister with mr fitzpatrick was a community connection his ability to connect with the community his ability to hear what the community says as well as his own personal um uh experience um we don't always have the opportunity to have somebody that has uh a direct connection to a board like that and i think that um as far as el rap is concerned at the expertise level

47:37 rap is really good and i think the uh community connection the personal connection on the part of mr freeland um i mean mr fitzpatrick um is is one that i i don't want to lose i think it's a good connection okay damian um so even before the interviews i was reading through the package and one thing that kind of came to mind is who can say what they need to say in the shortest period of time within that application and so one of course both went over and said see attached but to me it's like you should be able to put everything within that block or we need to think about redoing the application regardless

48:24 uh i don't know like i was i've just been trying to you know you use a space that was allotted and so people were able to sell themselves in the shortest space are ones that are going to stick out to me so that that's one thing but then two yeah i mean i you know uh fitzpatrick is veteran so you know that adds a level of diversity but then uh seemed pretty genuine seemed to you know want to make change it was less about him and more about the community and you know just when he was talking about his different experiences so i really appreciated that steve whatever uh talk about impressive resumes

49:11 how do we and how do we just don't usually get that with committees nowadays but i guess we are i said something the other day since i used to volunteer for committees i didn't have resumes like that and right now days i don't think i'd be selected so i'm lucky to i'm lucky to go through it anyway uh freeland boy is he's got some stories about yucca that i would like to hear but i believe that we need to select somebody to represent springfield on that committee that can integrate with the public talk to the public better than than in science and uh though he could still do that so fitzpatrick would be my selection and uh because of his people skills but mr freeland man he's got him too but i think there's too

49:57 much too much directed towards science in his respect thanks steve um i had terry over over bill too um and really it came down to the what the rest of the board looks like among the citizens group you know i just felt like somebody who had a little bit different of an experience and still uh would bring a lot to the table there's a lot there's a lot of really good science-minded folks on that board right now and just having another person that's simply been brought to this is a is an issue for their personal experience i think it's going to help wind the board out um the one thing i would recommend if is joe like don't they have a science advisory panel

50:45 oh yeah if you want scientists in science you go just go ahead and hang out over at lrapa and you will get lots of that now they have a they have a citizens advisory board that is packed with with experts in the field and very technical they've got a consultant on full-time dealing with some very large grants that have been been awarded to uh arapah and the oak ridge area the okra the lrapa staff themselves are highly technical and provide highly technical data to the board and um the board really at times gets overwhelmed with technical data and sometimes have to tell staff okay in layman's term what are you asking us again so uh i i get it and and that's why a wrap i think has run so well is because we got a ton of people that are working there that are truly experts in

51:31 the field and the board is it's got a good balance going on right now and i think that with this in this conversation corey brought it out and i didn't even think about those terms too is that um terry has got such a diverse background in regards to uh with his work in in his past why not he worked with a ton of of isolated populations and people at risk and all these different exposures different types of things in the community which leaves him i think completely open to whatever kind of information is coming at lrap but he's going to be able to listen to it and he'll be able to ask the right questions too so that was a good observation so yeah i yeah so i think we're aj we're saying you know uh that it's terry um and then i think we have to take action in the

52:17 next meeting about it and then no like i would save mr friedland's resume for a rappers you know if they've got a citizen's scientist spot over there that you know i was just thinking we have there's there is some of those openings that may be available so i'm keeping his name yeah exactly all right perfect um do you need anything else from us aj no thank you very very much all right this was our one item for the evening so please enjoy getting done early um we will talk to you guys next week we're adjourned we're tonight we're like done for the night right we're done we're done before i'm going to write this down goodnight everyone