Springfield City Council — June 6, 2022

0:07 i'm going to call the springfield city council work session to order with roll call mayor van gorden here councillor pitts here councillor mo here councillor bradley here counselor stare here counselor woodrow here and counselor pictionary i'm here thank you all right we have two work session items tonight the first one is the police special option levy renewal with sam and then i'll turn it over to you sam meeting mayor and council thank you again my name is sam kelly quijoki i'm the legislative and economic development analyst in the city manager's office so i get to talk to you all tonight about the police special option levy renewal i'm coming up tonight i'm looking for guidance before coming back to you all in a couple weeks for a public hearing and a formal adoption this will give staff enough

0:52 time to prep all the election material that's needed and make sure we're all in a row here briefly sort of the history of this levy it started back in 2002 every five years it expires for election again the current levy expires june 30th uh 2023 so we're hoping for a november eighth election in 22 so not too far away um currently the levy funds a variety of really key police services um so this includes uh 20 fte and police services so eight officers five dispatchers five community service officers and then two records and retention folks about 450 thousand dollars mns to go with them it also completely funds our jail so it's 19 fte and about a million dollars

1:38 m s our courts have a big chunk of this as well two and two thirds fte so two of that is clerks and then point two three of an f of a judge uh and then a little bit of the prosecutor's office is in here as well so this is a pretty all-encompassing essential fund for the city um at this time staff has come forth the recommendation to renew it at the current rate it is so a dollar forty per thousand dollars of assessed um what this does it offers a variety of things the first is by keeping it flat and for substantially the same resources we can use the word renewal and that word has been pretty big to show that renewals are easier to vote for to pass rather than a new levy a new tax whatever as you saw a couple weeks ago with dhm and their research we only tested 1.40 renewal

2:23 and the results came back mostly positive but maybe not positive enough for an increase for new services but rather keeping this levy flat and the way to do it that way and then lastly in talking with partners in finance uh the the fund can hold on a five-year forecast out of straight renewal the fifth year does get down um below the deal levels uh but in talking with them the current forecasts generally have overspending especially in personnel services when you look out that way and because as you know police aren't fully staffed right now there'll be some savings in there that make that fifth year forecast not entirely clear but the first four are still showing positive outcome so with that in mind i try to do a quick overview i think most we want to do is

3:08 have this half an hour discussion feedback uh and get on the same page before i come back in a couple weeks that all-important um resolution so i think with that maybe i'll turn it back to you all um happy to answer any questions i also have some folks on standby here so please if i don't know the answer i know one of them will i'm just the pretty face of all this for now leonard so um are we at the place where we're going to be talking about the actual wording of the caption and the question of the summary yet all right i knew i forgot something yeah one of the attachments includes sort of the current working draft of that language i want to include that free all feedback and in case folks hadn't seen this before but this has the 10 word limit on the the caption the question and the summary um i tried to

3:54 include the rules from the election office in there as well in brackets just so we knew what our constraints were um i if if we are at the place where we can start talking about that i have no i the the caption and the question seemed pretty straightforward the uh in the summary um i i remember in the previous discussion we had a figure in the packet that said the the the levy would represent a cost of um blank for the average taxpayer and it seems like that would be helpful i mean people don't people don't generally think in terms of a dollar forty per thousand dollars or

4:40 in terms of percentages it's a you know it's a lot of arithmetic and it would be very helpful i think for most people if they would just get some sort of a um some sort of figure to get their head around excellent that's a great idea thank you all right any other questions corey um thank you so mine is kind of a question and kind of uh just a sort of a messy converse chat um so one i totally appreciate the thinking behind um you know keeping it flat calling it a renewal all of that um and understand the message the sort of historical messaging of that um one of the things i've been thinking about since we started to talk about

5:26 this the last time is you know we're we're working hard to kind of invest in and reimagine and work on our police department and so those those two messages are kind of different to me they're like the renewal and we're going to just keep things the same and we're going to continue to fund the same thing doesn't really tell the story of the fact that it's it's gonna cost money and it's gonna cost effort for us to continue to invest in the police department so i don't i'm not necessarily advocating for us not making it a renewal i'm just like just holding that in the messiness of my head of thinking like how do we how do we continue to talk to the community

6:11 about the fact that we are focused on this we are investing in this things like body cameras and actually fully staffing our police department and paying for training and all that stuff is going to cost money which is beyond what we have done historically in terms of let's just fund jail beds so that's where i'm sitting in terms of i don't want to mess it up and say we're going to talk about raising a bazillion dollars and make it impossible to fund what we need to fund but i also want to like tell this just authentic conversation about what we're trying to do in springfield with our policing so i i think there's a couple of uh good points there and one of the things that is going to help with that is that as we sort of get into this historically you know one or two of the counselors has

6:56 sat and you know participated with the pac and crafting the messaging around that and i think that's where the opportunity to really tell and pull on that full story comes it comes into is when you know whenever the the community group organizes to have somebody you know one or two people from the council sit on that and help guide that you know so that they can talk about this with the community yes i i agree i think i think the information we got from the polling that was done gives us a positive response towards the renewal of this levy and i think also we went through the budget committee without any major alarm as to the finances that were set up for the budget for the police department

7:43 they both both of these are funding that goes towards the department i think what's important to remember is that we have to show our department that we support them um at the same time that we're trying to uh get them in a position of um being able to to grow and and grow in the training and everything else but i think in order to do that i think we have to have a positive message to our department as well so i i just think i think the funding is critical um and i think the way that this is set up being separate to take care of the things that the levy takes care of to take care of the things that are in the budget to take care of um i think that i'm comfortable with the way that it is

8:33 all right other other questions so sam um when you bring this back for public hearing before we approve it we still have an opportunity to modify the text um i think like leonard's got a really great idea about putting that cost in there and i know we're limited to like 175 words so there may be some massaging at the last minute yeah i believe you all still can like any resolution i think we can we can make those changes um i don't it'll be a problem maybe christina might want to jump in there yes you can make changes before it's adopted um and there are also probably some legal um requirements around wording that we will have to probably address before we bring it to you um in addition to the word limits there are other statutorily required language that

9:19 needs to appear there as well okay joe thank you sean and thank you christina's actually kind of stole what was coming going to come out of my mouth and probably more appropriately out of your mouth it's the last several levees historically i've brought that same thing up um the last three levees in a row in regards to the wording and how it's assessed so people have a better understanding so leonard i know where you're coming from um but it's almost like one of those been there done that's but hopefully we can do something different but um and i think it's it's would be valuable information for someone to and i think we you we did word uh one lovely let one levy once i believe i can't remember which one

10:05 um in regards to uh if your home is valued at 100 and i think the number we used at the time was 140 000 it would cost you this much per year and then that kind of had to go away because the words it took out more words than what the uh wording had to require you know had to have in it so it was like extra wording that would be at this forsake words that were required to be in it so we didn't have room but but i agree letter if you can if we can squeeze that in there and still be legal great but i'm not holding my breath on that one all right anybody else steve uh when we did this

10:50 originally built to jail in the levy uh we were pretty pretty happy here in springfield it's success success i'm not here we're pretty we're pretty happy with the success of it it's been so quiet uh lately i hear people sort of saying we don't need the jail let's turn in the library new library i don't know what to say but as i see the numbers here property crimes dropped by 50 percent and person crimes of 31 i've forgotten that that's a big deal and and i'm glad we're able to do that in our city yeah so the uh and i was just happen to have an aunt visiting today and the corner that plankton is on the primary is dropped 90 percent from when we built the jail right like

11:35 to so that what we see downtown has been contin you know the the police levy has been a big part of that i do know that there is some interest among the council to talk about sort of mental health services i think it's you know i think there's a solid discussion around that it's just a little bit early to make it into the police levy um we've got some more accession time scheduled in the fall to talk about you know a drug or a treatment court and what that might look like so i want to just sort of acknowledge for both the public and you know the rest of the council that it is coming there is going to be a good conversation about mental health coming it's just going to take some time to get it

12:20 scheduled and and work through it the correct way would would that be two separate courts a drug treatment court and a mental health court well i think i i think that i think the staff's got to put together the packet of information and you know and bring it all back and bring it all back in the fall all right all right sam do you need anything else no sounds like we're go with the dollar 40 so i can use that number for now and then we'll we can workshop some language in a couple weeks if we need to thank you all right i appreciate it thank you all right item number two um main street facility plan with molly and we've got the whole cast and crew here we do we have some people live some

13:08 people on the screen good evening i'm molly markarian senior planner and the city's project manager for the main street safety project um you all i'm sure recall that this is a collaborative effort with odot and so tonight we also have um odot's project manager bill johnston as well as amanda salyer who is odot's region 2 traffic investigations engineer i also have a number of project team members with me tonight ryan barnett the city's traffic engineer michael liebler the city's transportation planning engineer

13:54 emma newman senior transportation planner and laura lynn spiro dpw communications coordinator so molly before you get while you're getting organized um just a couple i think a couple of things to to uh to discuss about this this is work session number one of four as we go through this and marylee and i sit on there sit on the sort of governance committee and provide some steering and oversight for this as we talked about it um we set these up to strictly just start to get into the information get people re-grounded with the material and give them an opportunity to ask some questions so please make sure you ask you know any questions that you have it was designed

14:39 to sort of be an open discussion some of the material since it's back to back over the next month um is gonna it may take two weeks before people get an answer but but the staff's gonna log them and get make sure we get an answer to all this barely did i miss anything from our talks about it the only thing that um the only thing and i'm sure molly's gonna gonna cover this is our basic goal for tonight is for the council to get a real good deep understanding of the foundation of what of what all this is um and to so ask any questions that you have um for to clarify uh the foundation and the basic grounding of how the main street project even came about yeah

15:24 perfect all right molly take us away okay so as the mayor said we're gonna start with how we got here and where we're headed um and then we'll review information coming out of chapter two of the draft facility plan that was included in your packet and we'll make sure to pause after each section to take questions and then at the end we're looking also for your feedback on the discussion questions that were included in the packet so on the screen is a sampling of headlines we saw in the years leading up to the initiation of this project and we continue to see

16:11 headlines like this year after year i feel terrible reading headlines like this i'm sure you don't like how reading headlines like this feels any more than i do so the city council directed staff starting in 2011 to pursue actions to improve safety on main street in 2012 odot completed the main street safety study that focused on mitigating pedestrian collisions on main street in response to that study odot funded uh seven enhanced pedestrian crossings on main street and we'll cover those a

16:56 little bit more in a bit the city has also been actively involved in public education and outreach efforts as i mentioned the city and odot have been working collaboratively to make safety upgrades on main street and although these up changes have helped improve safety on main street as we'll talk about more later tonight the safety concerns identified for main street require a comprehensive solution beyond isolated low-cost treatments to significantly reduce the risk of crashes for all road users

17:47 if you recall back in 2016 odot allocated 4.5 million dollars through the arts program all roads transportation safety to address safety concerns on main street at that time main street was identified as a very high crash street with several sections in the worst five to ten percent of similar odot roads in region two of oregon the recommended solution initially was to install a raised median on main street recognizing that the crash types common for main street are spread along the street and are associated with the characteristics of the corridor

18:32 odot and the city subsequently decided to prepare a facility plan first to develop a more comprehensive and integrated solution in the fall of 2016 the city council at that time determined that the city should address the safety problem on main street and supported moving forward with the study of safety medians directing staff to investigate a suitable application for safety medians on main street evaluate the impacts to fronting business and property owners and coordinate engagement with the maine mcvay transit study at that time the city council saw the facility plan process as an opportunity to get to a decision

19:19 about which major features the community and the city council could support being included in a long-term concept for main street since 2018 springfield and odot have been working with partner agencies and a broad range of community members to develop the main street facility plan at the december 6 2021 work session the city council directed staff to move the draft plan into the adoption stage on february 15 earlier this year the planning commission held a duly

20:04 noticed public hearing on a package of legislative amendments associated with the draft facility plan on april 5th earlier this year after reviewing the staff report evidence in the record public testimony the planning commission ordered a recommendation of approval be forwarded to the city council for their consideration by a vote of four to three later that month in consideration of the amount of public comment and the size of the supporting materials of the draft plan the mayor and the city council determined that more time was needed to read and consume the material associated with the draft facility plan including the recommendations before

20:50 making such a significant decision for springfield's main street so i can pause there and see if there are any questions or are there just two more slides for kind of where we're headed next with these work sessions and then the summer and the fall let me know what works for folks does anybody have any no just keep going yep i'm getting the sign keep on rolling molly okay so as the mayor mentioned earlier tonight um this is the first of four scheduled work sessions to dive more in depth into the draft plan attachment one in your packet is a guide to the draft facility plan to give you a

21:36 sense of the scope of the draft plan and the focus for tonight is on as we mentioned how we got here where we're headed the main street needs the safety data the needs of the business community and the draft purpose statement and then um depending on how things evolve moving into uh community engagement that has occurred throughout the planning process to date and the development of solutions followed by uh the draft recommendation and the recommendation for the process for implementing the plan so where we are headed after these four work sessions in june uh staff will

22:22 prepare a communication packet memo with links to all of the supplemental materials that support the draft facility plan as well as the feedback from the community to date not only leading up to the draft facility plan but including community feedback during the planning commission hearing and all of the feedback that we've heard uh from the community that has been going to the council since the planning commission and continuing forward um and then we our staff team will be identifying possible plan modifications and circling back with the city council this fall to get direction on the development of a

23:08 city council alternative plan that we would then have a public hearing on that and the planning commission recommendation in early 2023 so again uh pause and let me know if there are any questions on any of that procedural stuff molly could you spend a little bit of time and just talk about what is a facility plan okay so the facility plan pulls together all of the work that has been done over the last uh four years in terms of the development well first

23:53 of all the the goals and objectives that the community identified the values and that led into the goals and objectives and then it describes the development of the recommended solutions um and the process that we went through for that and then it identifies how implementation of those solutions would work and i think that's an area that we've heard definitely in the in most recent months that people are looking for more details in that regard but essentially it's like the the roundup of all of this

24:38 body of work that has been done over the last few years all right great i think you can keep on going i'm seeing head nods around the table here okay so transitioning into that main street needs chapter chapter two of the draft facility plan um our project team developed a set of goals and objectives for the facility plan in consideration of community input also looking back to the city's transportation system plan and prior to prior corridor studies

25:26 these goals and objectives were used throughout the process as a filter for our analysis and that main street needs chapter is organized by those goals so that's why i mention it um and we'll go through each goal one by one so the first goal um is safety um it was identified um by um the planning mission the city council the governance team as the primary purpose for the main street safety project to improve safety for all users community outreach combined with detailed technical analysis help provide

26:13 a groundwork for understanding the transportation needs for main street both now and then looking into the future by 20 years into the future if you recall this the initial safety evaluation of existing conditions was based on the most recent five years of crash data available at the time of that evaluation which covered 2012 to 2016. um in september of 2019 our project team prepared addendum number one which evaluated 2017 crash data and partial crash data for 2018 and 2019 and the takeaway from that first

26:58 addendum is that similar trends and patterns existed um as in the 2012 to 2016 data leading up to and including the planning commission public hearing we heard a lot of desire to see a daily data set that would reflect the updated conditions on main street including the reduction in the posted speed limit on main street as well as the installation of the enhanced pedestrian crossings so we prepared a second addendum um that included 2018 well 2017 2018 2019 data um and then compared that to the 2012 to

27:45 2016 data to determine whether there were notable changes in travel patterns on main street i just would like to note that as it relates to 2020 the addendum presented the 2020 crash data corridor crash data for the corridor more anecdotally because it is strongly influenced by changes in travel patterns associated with the copen 19 pandemic and thus would not be useful for guiding crash mitigation decisions statewide traffic safety has gotten worse in recent years

28:32 instead of getting worse main street continues to see people dying and being injured in traffic crashes at about the same level this leveling off of traffic crashes compared to statewide trends is likely due to the various efforts to improve safety actions on main street like we talked about earlier however people are still dying and being seriously harmed year after year on the main street corridor this slide in particular compares crash data from the initial data set of 2012 to 2016 to the more recent set of 2017-2019 i'd like to note uh the percentage of crash types remaining consistent except

29:19 for pdo which is property damage only between the datasets i'd also like to note that in 2018 the minimum damage dollar value for reporting a crash increased and so fewer crashes have been legally required to be reported since 2018. again an important takeaway from looking at the more recent crash data and comparing it to the to the older crash data is that although the overall reported crash frequency has decreased in recent years the number of crashes resulting in

30:04 injury or death have remained consistent through 2019 while as we just talked about the number of property damage only crashes is lower again that addendum 2 to the crash analysis tells us that while the city and odot have completed lower cost and less impactful updates oh i'm sorry i didn't see your hand do you want me to go back merrily we're still there let me ask the question uh in regards to the data regarding the crash frequency and the percentages

30:49 does that um reflect is that percentage attained through reflecting the increase in traffic because we in that period of time we've increased population and we've increased traffic on main street to those percentages uh reflect uh that increase in traffic so i would venture to say yes but i'm going to look to someone else on my team to answer for sure i'd be happy to respond this is brian barnett the data that's on the slide on the screen currently is crashes per year and so it does not reflect any changes in the volume of traffic flow during those time periods okay

31:35 okay so those are the so the percentages average crashes per year so and i and i'm trying to be objective here but in a roundabout way we could actually be having a lesser percentage if we inc if we compared it to increased amount of traffic we could indeed be having a lower rate of crashes now than before if the traffic volumes had a material increase over that time period right if they significantly increased and i don't know whether they did or not it was just a question that popped into my mind yes you're you're correct um that would be a question that we could answer at a later date when we could look for that data to support or um

32:22 refute that um possibility okay thank you steve i i believe i read in here uh 20 000 vehicles per day average on there and that seems awfully low dave can i remember that correctly i can either confirm or deny i i honestly don't recall what the figure was like it would be higher than that but i would think so too somehow a 20 000 sort of jumped at me that the database for this is there is there a uniform database that that is being accessed for this or accessed for this information or are there i've sort of heard some talk to maybe some other others that could skew the information yes there is a uniform database other

33:08 than that property damage only reporting threshold okay oregon is a self-reporting crash state so there's not a police report that generates the data it's individual drivers reporting the data okay but there is a solid mechanism in place to manage that data once submitted by the public good thank you so i've got another uh data question here so if you look at the data sets one goes from 2012 to 2016 then there was an addendum that's from 2017 to 2019 and we know that 2020 is probably not going to ever be sort of measured right so in a facility plan is there someplace written in the plan that is requiring either odot or the city or some combination to constantly refresh

33:55 the data either through a new traffic study publish new results to see see whatever impact we're doing whether or not it's benefiting the safety picture well i think that we can look at that two ways one is that the the funding mechanisms that are likely to be directed toward this always are going to be looking at benefit cost ratio and in so doing they are looking at what is the past trend recently or i should say what is the trend in that particular segment of interest and is it how does it compare to all other segments in the city other other locations with similar street types and then when there's a mitigation that's identified that mitigation is valued or

34:40 costed and then the value of the crash reduction is offset against that and that's how that ratio is determined so everybody competes on that same basis all right molly i'm not seeing any more questions for right now so we can keep going okay so just to sum up this slide um the higher severity crashes that the main street safety project aims to prevent are still occurring in fact we are persistently seeing four to five crashes per year that result in people dying or being incapacitated while traveling on main street and so then moving into what is that what does that mean um on the first

35:27 slide about the data we had like injury a b c and so that correlates into terms that we we hope are um easier to understand into serious minor and possible injuries um and so uh we know that um the lives of those in a crash um are always altered and it's just a matter of um degrees and so when we talk about serious injuries those are the injury a they prevent the injured person from walking driving or normally continuing activities they were capable of before the injury was occurred and all

36:12 of these definitions are according to the the model minimum uniform crash criteria so it's kind of like a national way that these are talked about we also know um that a dollar figure does not truly capture um the intangible cost of a crash but we do use it in terms of analysis to determine the cost effectiveness so comparing the cost of possible improvements compared to the cost of a particular type of crash and in oregon serious injury and fatal crashes are both estimated to have a

36:58 societal cost of close to 1.5 million dollars because both are considered life-altering results of a collision and again there's a federal highway source for those dollar figures as we mentioned earlier the crash frequency on main street has decreased in recent years but the most predominant crash types have remained consistent and those are rear end and turning movement crashes that represent approximately 70 to 80 percent of crashes on main street which is common on corridors with a high number of driveways and intersections

37:43 [Applause] and kind of corollary to that is that streets with a high number of conflict points have these crash types and so when we compare main street to other state highways springfield is the highest in terms of driveway density in general um from the data we have not seen significant trends related to weather pavement or lighting conditions at the time that crashes have occurred 13 to 14 percent of crashes did occur in dark conditions without street lights present or functioning and that was similar for fatal crashes

38:29 express excessive speed and distraction contributed to approximately 10 percent of all crashes but were involved in a small proportion of severe and fatal injury crashes and according to the crash data in police reports impairment of drugs or alcohol contributed to just over five percent of total crashes on main street but 12.5 percent of fatal or severe injury crashes thank you um molly you mentioned the level of intoxication on the crashes

39:16 and whatnot so then what percentage of crashes were handled by the police over all crashes and so that would interest me in the sense of we're trying to make a declarative declaration of only for 14 of the accidents were alcohol or intoxication related but yet we know that the vast majority of the accidents reported did not involve the police is that correct ryan we don't have figures on when the police were or were not involved we're using a database that's strictly self-reported in terms of whether or not the the police were involved if there's a suspicion of

40:01 of impairment i'm quite sure that they would have been um involved typically because well let me let me state it this way usually the police department is called concerning crashes um unless the two parties who are involved want to just handle it themselves or it's a non-blocking kind of interes crash but we don't have data specifically on whether police were involved or not involved um is there another way that we could get at the impairment question you're posing well i think actually that i don't think that type of statement can be even be made because i don't think you have a basis

40:46 for that statement other than the fact that there's some we know were investigated by the police but the vast majority of accidents were not investigated by the police and you're also asserting that people involved an accident may be able to identify somebody that's intoxicated when really in fact it's it's a quite an art unless they're absolutely sloppy drunk we're sloppy intoxicated so it's it's i just want to be able to keep things you know on equal plane and not make some guesses here because the public doesn't want any guessing going on i respect that the the data that molly has on the chart there is the data that we have available to us and that's the best interpretation we can make

41:31 yeah no i mean i agree i'm not going to say that that is not information that you have available but i'm just questioning the validity of that information whether or not that should even be included because it's an unknown factor except for the the data that you provided which in my mind can't be validated i if i could jump in for a second brian oh yeah please yeah i think that as specifically as it relates i mean i hear what you're saying about the like the pool of data i think specifically as it relates to the fatal or severe injury cases which was 12.5 i think there we we can make the leap that police were involved oh yeah i can

42:16 i totally agree with that statement for sure because it's gonna there's if there's gonna be a serious injury or fatal uh for sure the police are gonna be involved so i think it just may be the worrying of you know of those crashes or of those significant crashes this is how many we know involved and intoxicant but then i think to put that in perspective we probably should put what percentage involved uh distraction or impairment overall with that is that so it keeps it kind of in context but i understand what you're saying thank you and before we go to merely could you guys maybe clarify a point there um

43:01 so when when you look at the entire data set are are the intoxicated or impaired crashes are those all coming are is that all coming from police reports or is that or is there some self-reported data that that is in there so some people report say reporting hey look we had a crash and there was alcohol involved or is that set only specifically the ones where the police responded and then investigated i'd like to direct that question to amanda salyer of odot she's the expert on that odot data do we have amanda oh no we should all right we're pausing just for a second because we are bringing amanda up

44:01 hi i was delayed a little bit uh i'm amanda from the oregon department of transportation uh so regarding i have a couple of comments for you i think there are instances where people will put on the report that they suspect if it's self-reported that they suspect that the other participant or they might admit that they were somewhat uh impaired uh but it what happens is they compare the two reports to each other and they only as far as i know they only input the data that is the same or not contradicting from the both from both reports on self-reported reports um it's safe to assume that injury b

44:47 or this the moderate injury severe and fatal have some level of police involvement uh because they have to confirm those injury levels to some extent so um so that's and there's a lot more investigation that goes into those injury types as well that's um just so they can confirm in case there's any litigation or insurance problems so i definitely think it's safe to assume it's grossly underreported for injuries and pdo um distracted driving included in that all right thank you amanda merrily

45:35 i'm looking at the bar graph and i'm trying to understand the purpose of it because the percentages don't line up with being a hundred percent uh of crashes so i'm trying to figure out what what else causes an accident and how come the percentages are so low in comparison to if you were dealing with a hundred percent of crashes why i'm losing my bar graph oh sorry i was going back to the to there um you know it somehow sometimes i feel like we're talking apples and oranges and and we're looking at the bar graph and we're saying that this this is impairment this is speeding this is uh rear end you know

46:21 that kind of thing is um and and distraction and then we're not talking you know even if you talked about the cause of the accident it you know it doesn't necessarily line up with excessive feed or just this particular bar graph with the one that you are almost on a couple seconds ago they don't line up together somehow they just i don't know i'm having difficulty understanding the reasoning behind i guess behind the bar graph molly would you like me to take that one sure this bar graph is intended to be responsive to input we receive from the community when they ask questions about what about

47:07 these factors this is the answer to those questions um the previous bar graph that uh molly was going to while you're um concluding your question is the one that identifies 100 of all types of crashes and what those might be the horizontal one yeah i just i just was looking at this one and to me like i said to me the percentages are very low if you're talking that excessive speed was only 4.3 percent of all crashes um that's very low and if you add all this up it's very low in comparison to all crashes so i was i was i my head's still not around it but i'm i'm willing to keep listening yeah i can't read that bar chart from here but i'm thinking that there is a

47:52 chart that has failure to yield and improper turn um and those are the principal causes of and following too close are the are the root causes for the different crash types that we have if we have that chart molly would you um we've taken it out of uh our slideshow but we can put it in for other ones it uh it usually followed this and where we would then talk about the primary causes of crashes like you said are are following um too closely and failure to yield right of way this this this one makes more sense because at least it it includes all of them the other one just kind of i i like i said i couldn't get my head around it because i couldn't i couldn't conceive of a purpose of just looking at

48:37 those few things but if it was in response to community questions and that was set up for them that's fine all right leonard so um is it possible that in this bar chart uh that we were just on uh that the impairment and the distraction and the excessive speed were based on citations that were issued at the accident i mean it seems like um you're the categories that brian brought up failure to yield improper lane change and proper turn um following too closely those are all things that would also be cited but if you were given one of those uh one of those tickets that that that's a separate offense

49:23 right i mean excessive speed uh you you would be given a ticket for speeding and for improper lane change i mean it's both yeah the standard form that the police use for their motor vehicle crash report has root causes of these nature i don't know if that's the term they use but it is the root cause of the accident it does not necessarily mean though that a citation was issued toward that it's just simply an identification of what the issue was that created the crash okay uh anything happens first thing we do is call 9-1-1 then it begins to get filtered

50:08 down to the police and the police determined or dispatch or whatever some somehow officers are dispatched or they can't be dispatched because they're busy uh so there's there's some area in there that i think information we're not getting information because it's not available under those circumstances and i think that's i think that's a good point um i think we're ready to keep going clusters of crashes are observed near major intersections and areas with high access density as well as areas with increased multimodal

50:55 demand i think the takeaway from from this is that the safety problem on main street is corridor-wide systemic in any given few years of data specific crashes and locations of safety uh probability do shift around however the problem remains on main street so this is kind of the end of the safety goal data and so i'm going to move into business community needs unless you have any questions on these last two slides so i guess if you walk back to where the data is

51:41 right the last conclusion you said is the inference that we're making is the entire corridor is equally unsafe and i don't know that when i read through the packet should i should we be concluding that the entire corridor is equally unsafe or are you saying hey there's probably hot spots in the corridor that are more unsafe than others and some in some parts of the corridor that the data says are i'm going to use relatively safe more more safe than the hot spots yeah i mean and brian can answer more on this too but the way i see it is that there are there are hot spots but those hot spots move around over time and so over the course of time

52:26 the whole corridor experiences problems ryan yes i i think there's an additional way to look at this is that we have intersections and we have segments they have very different crash characteristics the intersections are going to be more consistent than the segments will be in terms of what their crash rates are and how they shift over time if any the segments are going to be more variation there simply because the crashes of that nature are typically associated with driveway accesses or street accesses to the to the highway or to main street

53:14 sorry the train left the tracks there for a moment um oh i was looking at data that amanda sent um i think just this morning or at least i got to this morning and it was looking at the different time periods of our data and what was apparent to me is that the overall crash numbers because i don't have rates i have frequencies so nump crashes per year or per a three-year time period were relatively consistent although the segments that they occurred with shifted the data is an analyzed on segments of about a tenth of a mile each and so those those segments are looked at as you go down the whole five mile

53:59 segment section of roadway and the the segments that have the most crashes shift and so we have basically two the early data set and the later data set and although there is some shift in that there's consistency there's consistency in the numbers overall there's shift in the location between those two data sets so that is why i believe molly is saying we have consistency in that although there is differences those those differences shift along the length and to your earlier point yes there are some areas of the corridor that are more generally have a lower crash frequency than other areas that have higher crash

54:46 frequency and that relationship is fairly consistent but there's still lateral shift if you will and if merely this is a this is a community oriented question um in regards to looking at this and hearing the the shifting of hot spots um questions that i've been asked in regards to this specific part is how then unless you completely inhibit things going on on main street how do you uh play whack-a-mole basically um if you've got a hot spot here this year and you've got a hot spot someplace else next year and it in it's

55:32 it's um in real in relationship and relevance to what exists on main street for residential development for commercial for businesses and all that how do you not end up playing whack-a-mole trying to fix everything and that's that's a question that i'm that i have been asked lots of times in the community in regards to this especially when they hear that that hot spots move and and concerns different areas of crashes move how do you get from what the goals were established in the beginning how does that relate to a where we're headed in a in a plan um and make it so that it is relevant and

56:17 um in consideration of everybody on main street sure the the very nature of crash mitigation actions is going to be seeking out that which is worse and mitigating it you can you can uh once that is done then of course you have some success there in terms of grass mitigation and then there's going to be a new spot that rises to that top as i described earlier the the benefit cost analysis is done on allocating very scarce safety resource money to the places where you get the highest benefit at the least cost so there is always this aspect of we're gonna we would we in odot the funding source

57:02 would be looking for the most cost-effective places to expend the money is that going to be in the highest crash locations not always it could be in a lower than high crash location because the benefit relative to the cost is higher maybe that really high crash location is very expensive to mitigate so again we're always looking to allocate these resources in the most cost-effective manner and so there is going to be that need to be flexible in where those funds go always with the goal of reducing the severe and fatal injury crashes

57:56 as counselor woodrow just talked about we know that businesses on main street are an integral part of the community and people are concerned about them these are their livelihoods and they are concerned about how this project will affect their lives you're hearing their concerns about how customers and freight and emergency medical services will access their businesses you're hearing concerns about how they're scared about losing part or all of their building or their property and that their employees lose their jobs and so that's why we also have this goal guiding us in the development of this plan to support the viability of

58:41 existing and future businesses early in the process our team gathered information about the businesses on the corridor at that time our team included consultants echo northwest and they used quarterly census employment and wages data to get a sense of the businesses that would likely be impacted by accessibility from main street so those in the the larger quarter mile buffer and those businesses that would be most likely impacted by visibility for main street and that's the 500 foot buffer

59:33 concerns related to site usage and access for specific locations received from adjacent business and property owners during both the maine mcvay transit study and the main street safety project have been documented in an online map for us to consider as we developed the recommendations many comments have centered around concerns regarding potential right-of-way impacts on adjacent properties and businesses the impact of construction on adjacent business and properties potential impacts to business signage and the ability of customers and deliveries to access businesses

1:00:25 throughout this process we've acknowledged that changes is scary and that we won't know everything for sure about future implementation impacts but we wanted to better understand potential impacts to possible street changes on businesses and property owners and so our team with the help of echo northwest early on reviewed studies regarding the economic impact of possible street elements on businesses or changes to street elements on businesses those focused on studies with best practices in research which are well designed studies controlling for a wide range of factors influencing business performance

1:01:13 we learned that few studies attempt to measure the effect of roadway changes on retail sales and business performance because those are difficult and expensive to perform and while no studies exactly replicate the conditions on main street some some similar patterns did emerge that businesses um no business clearly in these studies declined um because of a street project there was a takeaway that any effect on a business after a street project was less than during construction and so it's really important that steps are taken to reduce decline during construction

1:02:03 uh we also learned that when rey's medians are installed customers tend to be more intolerant of some additional time that it may take to access businesses for destination businesses but for past by businesses they may experience some loss of patronage associated with the added time it takes to access their property and also that mid block businesses tend to be more susceptible to lower customer visitation so i will pause there if there are questions on the business needs section steve a lot of those businesses are smaller businesses and the owners have built

1:02:49 years trying to build build their business their clientele they're very very sensitive to the fear of something affecting that in the future so we have to be very careful that we that we whatever we're going to do makes better but i do have one other question here um that is and i go through this document i run into questions uh right i don't know this is relative or not freight deliveries currently use the center lane to stage delivery while it's made convenient it's not permitted well anyway alternate staging and delivery options could include deploying smaller vehicles for the last mile delivery using the just travel lanes in other words truck pulls up you unload it you unload it down another

1:03:34 truck that truck drives down download it there it's pretty crazy especially for a small business so that was that's my thought when i read that okay yeah that's gonna go like that's a part that yeah you i worked for it long enough all right leonard yeah um so um on this mid block business there are going to be some medians i mean as currently proposed that are going to be longer than a block right i mean so some of these medians are not going to cut off every block am i right about that brian can you address that but i i mean if they're going to be um breaks at all of the major intersections

1:04:20 and then all street intersections yeah our our our expectation was that all public streets with very rare exception would be open for full access the major private access points that have high volumes of traffic often times higher than what a public street might carry those would be open for some either a left in uh or full access okay now now when you say a major intersection um are you talking about like 28th 42nd um 54th or are you talking about every block uh every public street with the rare exception okay that's different from what i was thinking thanks

1:05:06 all right uh joe and then we'll get to corey thank you um so the mid block businesses are more susceptible to lower customer visitation resulting from access restrictions so is that i'm still sitting here just a little confused leonard uh counselor steer uh just asked about breaks in the median that's that i thought at one point where like was going to be a solid medium between roundabouts pretty much solid and now i'm hearing now that uh they're all your side streets will be able to people be able to pull off a main street and for example eastbound traffic on main street will be able to turn northbound onto a side street with the

1:05:52 current plan or is that changed and what i'm really confused that was our intent all along public streets would have full access with rare exception so where in the heck did i get the meetings all the way down where there's no access to side streets my goodness okay well thank you that's helpful although i i'm concerned so if the side streets are all have full access then why would i guess the mid block would be between those side streets so on that modification of main street are any of these modifications gonna be the cost would be born by any land owner

1:06:43 do we know that yet that's a good question that i'm pondering um i i would think it be highly unlikely but i'm not an expert in the land use area so i uh you know the land use permitting process so i think i'll defer that so christina i saw just saw you pop in can you help us with that one yes i am happy to answer that question um so if a property owner redevelops their property in a way that creates additional impact on the city's transportation system so in you know intensification of a use then they may be required to bring the frontage of their property up to whatever the currently adopted standards are

1:07:28 and that's the situation in which a property owner would bear the cost absent the council adopting a local improvement district to assess properties individually which has not i think been proposed at any point as part of the main street facility plan but molly could correct me if i'm wrong on that that would have to be adopted by the council there's a significant public notice process that goes along with an led otherwise the extent to which a property owner must dedicate property um or dedicate new right of way is constrained by constitutional requirements around an eminent domain so even in the case where someone is redeveloping and having to dedicate more

1:08:14 right-of-way it has to be proportional to the impact of their development on the community and so it's um what doesn't need to be proportional is to the extent there's already property dedicated for the right-of-way any requirement to improve that up to current standards like planting additional street trees or paving a sidewalk where there may not be sidewalk currently and that type of thing i hope that answers the question i think that so that part of it so if we interfere with pre-existing properties or property lines then we're going to be responsible for that i guess we're not going to be placing uh development requirements on any businesses or private property owners

1:09:00 throughout this project it's going to if there's a project then it's all going to be paid for by project funds any increase in need for right-of-way would be paid for by project funds unless someone comes through to redevelop in a way that the impact of their development their redevelopment is proportional to the amount of right-of-way needed so the more right-of-way needed the larger the scope of that new impact would be think i mean think in terms of the difference between impact of a of a big box store where there was previously a small business you know if there's a if there's a massive impact on the system created um then it may be proportional to require more street frontage for example to meet those demands

1:09:46 okay thank you corey thank you so um this is really just as we move forward because we're going to have more conversations about this and as i dug into this leading up to this meeting and really appreciated this the comparison of anticipation of how businesses will experience both construction and then the eventual sort of benefits of the project so i think we've been very focused on the sort of end benefits and all of that and i think it's going to be important for me it's being for me to to kind of get a better understanding of how we could possibly mitigate the

1:10:31 construction challenges for businesses because when you think about main street it's it's which is part of the reason it is the way it is is that there aren't ways for people to enter those businesses from the back side there's not there's not a lot of like other ways to to get there to get around it so i think that's something that i would like to be thinking about as we move forward is um because i see that for a lot of the businesses when you dig in there the the potential for risk is really during the construction phase and that's going to be the phase coming up the quickest on the heels of the pandemic and what a lot of the businesses have have experienced so that's a place that i would like for us to dig in more to kind of think how do we how are we gonna really work with that

1:11:23 okay great um i don't see any more questions molly how many more slides do we have steve i'd originally envisioned this as as a four-lane highway and the only way you could reverse direction is was the roundabouts i believe i'm now starting to understand that each street you're able to turn down that street does that mean there's going to be a left turn lane to go down that street like going north when you're going east typically yes okay so there will be a left turn lane there yes okay it's a big deal and people can turn and come back to business come back to businesses and if they let me clarify that left turn lane would still have a curb on its left edge so that opposing traffic and it are separated in other words there's not an

1:12:09 opportunity to cross that curb and enter into a driveway right it's the left bay to turn into the public street you can turn into the street and then thanks okay um molly let's keep going okay all right joe you got a question yeah um brian actually caused it i'll blame him um okay so when you bryce you just ex you just said to account for mo counts for most to counter most statement that if we were eastbound and wanted to go northbound onto a side street that there would be a turn lane provided for that turn and then you said

1:12:55 earlier that people will be able to go into any side street so i guess that i guess that answers my questions in regards to main street traffic but what it doesn't reflect that any traffic coming off any side street must turn right there is no provision for any vehicle to turn off of a side street to turn left going going on to main street is that correct i understand your question and the answer is no that is not correct what it means is that it no from a side street a left turn from a side street onto main street would no longer be able to make a two-stage left turn using the special purpose lane as it

1:13:42 sits today they would have to make a single stage left turn wherein they would enter directly from the side street to the receiving lane on the if we're northbound turning west you would have to go into the westbound travel lane you would not be able to go into the special purpose lane in the center as it exists today so that okay so then that's like the intersection that it is um at where papa's pizza is on main street so anybody coming out of the side street on the north side going out onto main street then goes around that concrete barrier that was placed there many years ago and has to go on to main street front to make a left turn there if they wanted to go to papa's is that right

1:14:29 i'm not sure i tracked exactly the papa's part of the description but if you're on a side street and you wish to make a left turn presently you can make that left turn into the center turn lane or the special purpose lane right then you make a right merging maneuver to get into the through traffic heading in the direction you intended after a median with a curb would be installed you could still make that left turn from main street onto the side street but if you're coming out of that same side street you would not be able to use the center area to stage your turn you would have to turn directly into the receiving lane that's in the direction you wish to travel okay but i'm not sure how many folks have tried to make that turn at that intersection

1:15:15 i have and it's extremely difficult and and pretty difficult to even time because now if we mitigate the traffic and have it more consistent on main street without having pulses then making those kind of turns can be can be very problematic do you agree i understand what you're describing and if you're uncomfortable or unable to make that turn then you could make a right-hand turn from that side street or driveway move up to the next left turn bay and then make a u-turn if you had a vehicle that was you know a regular passenger vehicle or standard pickup size right so as opposed to a teenager mate throwing a making a hail mary turn they're gonna have to turn right if they

1:16:00 don't like it so that that is pretty interesting because i'm wondering if we are creating a um more accidents that way or about to create more accidents is there any data that says those that's a safe turn i don't have any information to share okay so can we log that as a you know as an issue to come back to because i think that that question is going to come up as we get through this and people are going to want to i absolutely know it will yup and i and so and can we extend that and what could you extend that same sort of scenario to those situations could because some businesses would get a left-hand turn into them right so if you came out of that business the way to think about that would be like a like a side street that you could take a left-hand turn out of that

1:16:46 business if you have a left hand turn into it right i think it's very situationally dependent okay on the conditions on the ground of that business its proximity to other intersections whether they be roundabout signals or unsignalized uncontrolled um i can certainly see a situation where a left turn access into a major business would be permitted but a left out wouldn't simply because you could leave that business turn right and then very quickly have a u-turn opportunity okay merely i'm i'm willing to table because my question was involved with the same thing i'm looking at the next slide that says the quarter is going to increase 20 to 30 percent in the next 20 years and i'm looking at this left turn element as being very cumbersome

1:17:32 and and the possibility of creating even more accidents so but that's fine because we'll you tabled until later so that's all molly how many more slides do you have for tonight we have about four all right we got about 10 minutes left so let's keep going so um i think as um counselor woodrow just noted um the risk from crashes will only increase with expected increase in traffic volumes as springfield and our surrounding communities continue to grow as people travel to access businesses and other major activity centers on the corridor

1:18:22 in planning for main street's future we're also addressing a range of ages and abilities um [Music] main street needs to meet a diverse range of needs and demographic shifts currently main street is a high-stress pedestrian and bicycle environment we also know that we have the highest transit ridership with the number of 11 bus in the ltd service area main street safety project identifies infrastructure solutions and these engineered solutions need to work hand

1:19:08 in hand with education and enforcement the city has both worked on producing educational videos and information cards and materials participated in various programs and events over the years and the police department annually seeks grants to support increased traffic patrols to enforce speed um seat belt and impaired and distracted driving laws so that is all that i had um i was also just going to mention that early in the

1:19:54 planning process we developed a draft project purpose statement and it was refined based on feedback from the plan springfield planning commission the city council and the main street governance team it identified the problem to be solved and our basis for selecting solutions and has been a touchstone for our public engagement efforts and the sieve through which all options that we've considered have needed to pass and with that i would turn it over to any further questions feedback on the discussion questions that were included in the packet all right does anybody have any additional questions

1:20:47 right so um could you clarify the purpose statement piece um i thought the original purpose statement uh the one you showed had and maybe i'm thinking of the older one had um had safety improvements i thought the original one had safety improvements and economic opportunity on it as well this this does i can pull up i'll pull it back up sorry about that and maybe i maybe the slides too far away for me to read so it's this this paragraph here with the about pairing it so it will provide

1:21:33 for the movement of goods and people support the economic viability of the corridor accommodate current bus service and future transit solutions and complement safety education and traffic enforcement okay so i guess the couple of comments that that that i had um one of them is i would i would like to know more about when we think about in the implementation and i know we're not going to answer this tonight when we think about the implementation phase how to get more data driven by it right because we still have safety data that comes out annually right that's going to refine how you know any improvements we do on the corridor and it's really unclear to me how we're going to make changes and investment on the corridor and then we're going to come back and measure that that result so i think that's still

1:22:18 kind of an opportunity for refinement um the other the other thing that really stood out to me was again as we get through if you compare the two sides of the presentation from a um from the safety picture to the economic uh to the economic picture just getting more clear on where the economic benefit is or how we measure the economic benefit i think will will help a lot and it could be in the presentations it could be in the additional material but that's not something that that we saw in the slides last point that i'd like to make um are these slides going to go up on the on the web page uh we can do that yeah that yeah if you could send out a copy because i know that they didn't

1:23:04 make the original packet um and make sure that they get up on the main street website i'd appreciate it merrily uh one part of a conversation we didn't necessarily have uh in our tonight was the consideration of biking and walking um we talked about injury injury crashes vehicle crashes uh damage property damage and all that kind of thing but we did not talk about the usage of main street by pedestrians and bikes um i would like to see some basic data on um on even just the usage frequency um of uh bicycles

1:23:49 on main street um i'd like to see some data on pedestrian usage i mean i just i don't know how i'm not educated enough to know how to get that but i think that kind of data is important to have um as far as frequency of usage frequency of i the reason i ask is because i'm on main street all the time back and forth because of where my ward is and i see very little traffic from pedestrians and bicycles on main street and maybe there's a reason they're not there is because they they it's too stressful for them but i we still need a number we still need some kind of data um this part that's part of the basis the foundation for all this

1:24:36 you can we can definitely get some more information on that i what i was flipping to is something that i neglected to mention when we were talking about how the percentage of rear end and turning movement crashes stayed relatively the same between the two different data sets we did see an increase in both pedestrian and bicycle crashes percentage-wise between the two data sets uh is that because more people are using it because of the improvements or not is hard to say but do we have a in that when you're talking the percentages do we have um a significant number do we have a significant factor like if you think if there's a one percent increase do we really know that or do we know is

1:25:21 there a percentage uh of playing a playful percentage in between those numbers well so brian i would ask you to do some math in your head um if these are if these are the two data sets and this is average per year it's not the total um what we can get back to on what those numbers are given the percentages but okay all right um thank you for taking us through that i know we're gonna spend a little bit of time on this over the next month um but you know if you if you can continue to put out the just any any additional information that you guys find you know and get it back to us i would definitely appreciate it and we will see you next

1:26:06 week with that i'm going to adjourn us for the next four minutes

1:31:23 all right i'm going to call the city council regular meeting to order with roll call mayor van gorden here councillor pitts here and sir mo here councillor rodley here councillor stare here after woodrow here counselor pissionary i'm here thank you please join me for the pledge of allegiance i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible everybody and justice for all as we begin our meeting tonight i would like to ask members of the audience who

1:32:08 are joining us by phone or online to please keep yourselves on mute until you are called to provide public testimony there are two times designated for public testimony this evening under public hearings and business from the audience if you are attending in person please complete the request to speak card located at the entrance of the council chambers and give them to the city recorder if you're joining us online with a tablet smartphone or computer and wish to speak to either those times please use the raise hand feature in zoom the order of the public testimony is as follows anyone anyone in person in the council chambers and then anyone who has raised their virtual hand neil how many people are joining us this evening man we have approximately 30 participants online and about 13 here in

1:32:54 the council chambers all right first item please mary of two items under springfield upbeat item number one is the mayor's recognition lgbtq plus pride month proclamation all right and i've got whereas our nation was founded on the principle of equal rights for all people but the fulfillment of this promise has been long and coming for many americans whereas for more than 50 years students have been celebrated as lgbtq plus pride month nationwide in the honor of the lgbtq plus citizens that rose up to fight discriminatory laws at places like stonewall whereas everyone should be able to live without fear of prejudice discrimination violence and hatred based on race ethnicity religion class gender identity

1:33:41 sexual orientation age mental or physical disabilities and to be supported by their peers educators and community leaders and whereas springfield oregon celebrates and honors its diverse lgbtq plus community that includes people of all races ethnicities religions and professions and whereas the city of springfield strives to be a community where everyone is celebrated for our differences rather than limited by what might divide us i shawn van gorden mayor of spring the city of springfield proclaimed june 2022 to be lgbtq plus pride month in recognition in celebration of the many ways in which the history and the culture of lgbtq plus americans and their advancements discoveries and achievements of these americans have contributed to the history culture and

1:34:27 social fabric of this nation in the city of springfield mayor your next proclamation is men's health month proclamation so whereas despite the advances in medical technology and research men continue to live an average of five years less than women with native american and african-american men having the lowest life expectancy and whereas encouraging safe behaviors including social distancing and getting a vaccine will help spread stop the spread of coved and whereas men who are educated about the value that preventative health care can play in prolonging their lifespan and their role as productive mem family members will be more likely to participate in health screenings whereas fathers who stay connected to their children maintain and maintain a

1:35:12 healthy lifestyle are role models for their children and have happier and more fulfilled lives whereas men's health month will focus on broad ranges of men's health issues including heart disease mental health diabetes prostate testicular and colon cancer and whereas the citizens of springfield oregon are encouraged to increase awareness of the importance of healthy lifestyle regular exercise and medical checkups i shawn van gorden the mayor springfield do hircup to hereby proclaim june is men health men's health month in the city and encourage all of our citizens to pursue preventative health practices and early detection efforts next item please mayor the next item is the consent calendar

1:35:58 i make a motion that uh i've lost it here i'll approve the consent calendar second it's been moved and seconded that we approve the consent calendar neil could you call the vote please yes counselor pitts i answer mo yes councillor radley yes counselor stare yes counselor woodrow yes encounter pictionary yes thank you motion passes six yeses zero knows next item please mayor tonight you have two public hearings uh public hearing number one is annexation of territory to the city of springfield annex 2.33 acres of property located southeast of the intersection of holly street and south 49th street and north of jasper road portion of map

1:36:45 18-02-04-0 text like 2800 tax lot 2800. again this is ordinance number two an ordinance annexing certain territory located southeast of the intersection of holly street and south 49th street and north of jasper road to the city of springfield a lamalean park and recreation district withdrawing the same territory from the willikenzi rural fire protection district adopting a severability clause and providing an effective date this is a first reading and andy limbert is here for the staff report yes good evening counselors i'm just going to share my screen to provide um some maps for context here just bear with me i'm going to bring up the site on powerpoint and we'll start it from the beginning um

1:37:32 i just wanted to clarify at the outset um it it was my oversight i apologize this is located just southeast of the intersection of south 49th place not south 49th street south orange place so with the next um version of the ordinance to come before you that typo will be corrected um but it is located in southeast springfield uh just south of the phase one area of woodland ridge which is a new subdivision between jasper road and daisy street and the annexation area is an irregular shaped portion of an existing vacant

1:38:17 pasture essentially the reason for the annexation request is that it comprises part of the boundary of the next subdivision phase that's being proposed the applicant does not own all of the property the applicant being hayden holmes the developer of woodland ridge and you can see some of the development to the north of this site off squirrel street and south 51st place so the annexation area is depicted on the subdivision plan before you and so it forms the outer boundary of the phase three subdivision area the reason for the annexation request is to allow for extension of holly street eastward from its current terminus

1:39:02 which is at the intersection with south 49th place um and that will serve as one of the primary through streets for this neighborhood it will eventually connect with an existing segment of holly street in the pinehurst neighborhood which is east of this property so we'll uh provide for continuity and connectivity uh within these neighborhoods as they develop the other purpose for this annexation area does allow for some uh residential lots to be developed and you can see them in kind of the self portion of that they're numbered there there also will be some utilities there's a connection point to the jasper trunk sewer at this location and also proposed storm water facilities

1:39:48 because of the public improvements that are going to be provided in these areas the annexation request is being submitted by the developer and that'll allow for completion of this initial subdivision phase uh staff did beat all of the notification requirements for this we posted the site provided three signs on the perimeter one um where holly street ends one actually right along the fence line um off jasper road and then also another one up south for 51st place which is the nearest kind of point of of connection um to the annexation area to the north where people who are notified of the annexation might

1:40:33 view it i did have a couple of emails people were asking about the fate of the trees as a wooded ridgeline along this this area of springfield most of the trees will be retained intact as common open space there will be an extension of cell 50 first place as a necessary connection to provide access to the neighborhood as it develops so that will essentially create a gap in that tree line to facilitate development of this subdivision but it'll connect to the north in the existing woodland ridge area and the west in west winds and the annexation area that's roughly half of an arrowhead i guess you could say is on the south boundary of the

1:41:18 subdivision phase there were no other letters uh no expressions of concern or objection to this annexation request so i'd be happy to answer any questions if you have them joe yes thank you hey andy could you tell us to put this in context for me as well would you indicate with your cursor where the and i'm looking on the uh um paid attachment to page 4 of 36 um can you please show me with using your cursor where the rail line is uh the rail line runs in this right away right along the edge of this city limits line so it actually there's a there's a little kind of a wedge here and jasper road

1:42:04 departs they were they run in parallel to the southeast of here the railroad continues along this the boundary of this property and jasper road diverges and it and it goes on a more westerly direction so there's a little sliver of land in between and then the right of ways kind of connect right at this point so is that do we have provisions in code or or um i'm not completely sure i'm trying to also i know what you're talking about now so thanks um do we that's going to be a more concentrated residential area and i just don't know do we have again provisions within the code to have some barriers that will help keep kids off that track um yeah that's a good question typically

1:42:51 i know they've had fencing and i know they've had security borders etc that help provide protection but as they are developing the heck out of this area i haven't seen if that's been addressed in your paperwork um we we don't have that at this point um because the development has not come through yet but one of the things that is an option is to fence off of some of the areas that will be devoted to um storm water facilities which is in much of the area what is called track c um so this area there's the opportunity to fence the boundary between and if there's an existing fence right now but it's a barbed wire you know like a livestock type fence so there may be the opportunity to change the style of fencing along the boundary of this

1:43:36 property uh to something that's more i guess residential or urban in nature like a chain-link fence or something that would essentially be something that the developer would need to initiate um it we don't have to my knowledge a consistent fencing strategy um along the railroad uh to keep people off um it's i guess depends on you know as as properties develop what the uh ownership um basically incentive is to do that again i think you'll have to agree that we've seen a lot of development pushing pushing south on our city limits towards that railway and i think it's a

1:44:21 it may be too late in some cases but i think it's worth at least um considering that and you know food for thought maybe planting a seed with you to see if it would be wise for us to look at that because again if it's predictable it's preventable sure absolutely there will not be public um you know pedestrian connections or formal connections that will empty out into this area um in fact some of the area is wet so it'll be a son of a dis bit of a disincentive for people to make their way across you know what is going to be retained mostly as kind of wetlands and there's some there's actually a ditch along this area that that drains the the area that's going to be kept right so there may not be

1:45:07 physical barriers that may we may be able to keep some of the natural barriers to encourage people to remain you know on the public sidewalks and not venture onto the railway corridor um which poses a significant risk and jasper road too um also pose a risk so um but staff will work with the developer obviously yeah to we'll take that under advisement and let them know that um that that is a concern thank you honey all right any other questions leonard um andy i don't know if you can see me but i'm i'm going to indicate part of this street that's part of the annex proposed annexation area this um this street right here the

1:45:52 it's it appears that i the the post annexation area makes perfect sense but it looks like part of this street is currently part of the city and then when it goes down is this briley um that it's no longer it's no longer in the city so if we if if part of this street needed repairs uh it could conceivably be partly in and partly out that's correct yeah that was the reason for the annexation it it just so happens that the way that the developer has designed the subdivision a portion of the existing city limits line and you can see it here where the city limits line runs east west across this vacant property

1:46:38 um and then it it articulates around uh what used to be a uh former home site there but it's along more or less the center line of the proposed street and you're correct uh counselor stair that is not a desirable situation to have a split jurisdiction um across the street so staff had advised the developer that would be in their interest to annex this area in order to bring the entire segment of holly street into the city limits as well as some of the future improvements in the area that i'm showing it says the text says proposed annexation area there are some stormwater facilities planned uh they'll be constructed and then would be eventually in public ownership that also

1:47:25 is desirable to have that within the city limits um should the rest of the development area to the east not annex or not proceed all of the built area uh within the subdivision phase will be within the incorporated city limits with this action yeah it just seemed like an unusual situation okay thanks it is um so i guess for context um it would be preferable to have the entire area annexed that is a bit of a heavy lift though because um annexation fees are calculated on acreage and so it is a a fairly significant amount of application fees and complexity for

1:48:10 surveying and that sort of thing to get the 30 plus acres remaining annex to the city and then they will remain vacant for a period of time while the developer you know that advances towards that annexed area so the developer chose to annex just the portion that was needed for i guess the immediate future and leave the remainder for another day thank you any other questions all right i'm going to go ahead and open the public hearing i don't have any cards um for this item neil do you have any hands mayor it appears we have no hands for this item all right

1:48:55 then i'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing this is no action required is first reading only so next item please mayor the next item is the transient lodge tax administration this is ordinance number three an ordinance amending springfield municipal code section 7.700 to 7.724 7.728 7.732 and 7.736 and repealing sections 7.726 7.730 7.734 and 7.738 regarding transient lodging tax this is a first reading and nathan bell is here for the staff report all right good evening mayor and council uh the item in front of you this evening

1:49:40 is a request to conduct a public hearing and a first reading on an ordinance that amends sections of the city's municipal code relating to transient lodging tax and just some quick background on this back in january of the city of eugene notified its partners that it was getting out of the business of administering the tlt program um and was going to have the state administered their program we were given the option of joining them or coming together with the remaining partners and having someone step up and administer that program it was an easy solution for us losing the economy at scale from having city of eugene as part of that and the fact that the state can provide that service a better service at a lesser cost

1:50:25 we are recommending that you go with the state as well to facilitate the state performing that role for us our municipal code regarding tlt has to be consistent with the state's model tlt ordinance and that's what these amendments uh accomplish uh so with that uh any questions all right i'm gonna go ahead and uh joe thanks sorry of course i have one um hey nathan is this tax collector so to speak is it changing any of the rate of costs born onto the people for example that are that are renting out is that going to be

1:51:10 additional cost to them as opposed to the same rate that eugene charges that's a good question i i don't believe so but i can double check and follow up with an answer if that's the case uh if it does it's it's going to be a negligible expense so i think the state the reason they can provide this at a lesser cost is just economy of scale is they're going to be performing this whole thing for most um agencies across the state right now i i don't have any doubt about that part but they cur they currently like charge 4.5 of the of the cost of the rent to going towards transit room tax and i just didn't know if this provider is being allowed by way of state law or by way of city code or whatever

1:51:55 being permitted to charge more than what the renters in this area were currently paying so i think christina has an answer christine she does the the tax rate is not changing the city will still set the tax rate and be in control of the tax rate what is changing is the amount that the tax administrator keeps of that tax as a cost for administering the tax so there should be no change to the tax rate that is collected um it's just a change on what the city receives back um to be more the enforcement will go through the state of oregon and so there could be minor changes related to enforcement or filing of those taxes and so

1:52:40 incremental or minor cost to business as just a cost of compliance with the law there could be small changes there and that's probably what we could follow up with to get an idea of what those differences would be okay thank you sounds good any other questions all right i am going to open the public hearing i do not have any cards for this item neil do we have any hands for this item may or no hands for this item i'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing uh this is no action requested it's first reading only uh next item please business from the audience

1:53:29 i have three cards um from inside the uh inside city hall first person is steve swift if you can come up and give state your name in general location for the record yes uh steve swift six five six laxing and loop right so um the first thing i'm gonna say is um since you first instituted the uh proposal of the roundabouts i conducted an impromptu survey with all my customers and i posed the question uh what percentage of uh drivers uh follow the speed limit and uh was

1:54:14 overwhelming uh none so i'm gonna pose the same question to each of the council members also one other question is um do you know what the number one cause of accidents are and um the last one is um shoot uh i that that last one escaped me uh i'm not used to uh coming up there but uh but yeah so uh uh what your individual um take on percentage of drivers uh not just on main street but overall

1:55:00 and um and oh and do you think the best prevention of uh people breaking the law is enforcement that's what i pose to you all right thank you we don't normally respond in this in in this environment we'll get to a point where if people want to respond they will uh they will make some comments to it right now we're just receiving public comment hello heart hey tonight i'm here on a happy subject i am here to just give such deep and

1:55:47 high appreciation from the bottom of my heart to everyone who works at this library here in springfield this springfield library is is superior to any library that i have ever been a part of and any city i've lived in and i've lived in several cities during the during the course of my time when my kids were little and now they're in their 50s so it's a long time i really appreciate the inclusiveness the creativity the commitment the amazing programs that every single staff member of our library puts together and for me

1:56:33 the springfield library is one of the highlights and golden shiny stars of this whole community and i just want to thank them publicly and encourage our city who does budget reload allocation to remember to really please support our library it is vital to this community thank you and you come also at your name and general location oh yes my name aloha heart and i am a resident of springfield and happy to be especially because of the library thank you victoria doyle

1:57:23 hi my name is victoria doyle 787 south 48th street in springfield and i was at home listening to the first portion of the meeting and it was about the levy the police levy we talked about and i know it's probably too late now to make any changes with budgeting and everything happening but i'd like to see maybe in the future that the council consider moving those ftes from that levy and getting them more in the general fund i mean we're talking about a levy that yes it's been approved but it doesn't mean that it's going to be approved right and so by doing that we're tying people's lives and livelihood to a levy and a potential vote or not vote so i think that it would be more beneficial that we tie people's um jobs to our general fund and not to that levy and that that levy

1:58:08 emphasized more about the fact that it's keeping our jail open and that it um benefits the folks and how those numbers have you know the crime has been reduced in downtown and everything since that jail opened and that that be more of our focus and just kind of get those jobs out and away from the levy that was it thank you that was the last card i had from in inside uh city hall um neil do we have anybody that wants to testify remotely yes mayor the first speaker is kevin shaper kevin will be followed by danny wright and kevin you should be able to unmute your microphone hi uh my name is kevin schaefer and i live in ward 2. um i want to touch on both parts of the

1:58:55 work session tonight uh with regard to the the property crime statistics i looked at the fbi crime data explorer and it shows that 37 declined in property crime from 2009 to 2020 rather than the 50 percent given by his staff so i'd be interested to understand how that's calculated also looking at the bigger picture scaling that out across the larger time span i see that before the jail was built there was an even larger drop in property crime so from 1997 to 2009 it dropped by 52 so it appears to me that the property crime drop has been part of a long-term decline since the late 1990s and i'm wondering if staff would share the data sources um and any methodology that leads to this cause of any kind of causal inference about the jail and then i want to thank staff for a great job of

1:59:42 presenting on mainstream uh with regards to the number of people biking and walking there uh a couple of things i wanted to mention for consideration first is the number 11 bus is one of the busiest routes in the ltd system and anyone who makes a round trip using this bus line has to cross mainstream as a pedestrian because the second half of your trip will always be in the opposite side of the street and to underscore the significance of this i want to note that that's exactly how seventeen-year-old sherry barrow was killed in 2009 crossing the street to go home after getting off the bus second is an analogy uh it'd be great to have a bridge from clearwater park to the mount pisgah and it would be such a huge time savings for everyone springfield so easy and complete and safe but would never justify the need for a bridge based on counting how many people are currently swimming across the

2:00:27 river nobody swims across but obviously a lot of people would use the bridge and the same feels necessarily triggered about maintenance if people felt safe doing so they would they would obviously be riding a bike on a summer evening to shake their fins drive in and that's it's economic development um finally uh i just wanted to ask what the mainstream safety plan will be doing to reduce the number of driveways on main street which as we saw in the presentation tonight is obviously a huge outlier at the statewide level thank you the next speaker is danny wright and danny you should be able to unmute your microphone hello this is danny wright from mckinsey feed 4441 main street in springfield i live

2:01:12 at 88278 milliken road out in walterville and i just wanted to thank the staff for you know opening up the discussion about the main street safety plan and encourage the council to look at each volume that has been sent out there for them and from my understanding there is a set of drawings that visualize what main street is supposed to look like when this plan is done and i'd encourage you to get a hold of staff and have that presented to you the having every street have a acc

2:01:57 a free access point to it does not is not in the plan has never been discussed i was surprised to hear that that was an option because there's many side streets that are very close together so how long would that median be if that was taken into account and i appreciate that each counselor has experience driving and doing different things in and about main street and up and down main street and i would encourage you to ride the bus take a bike walk use the different means of traveling down main street and

2:02:42 think about how you would access your business that you like to go to as if it was going to take you seven roundabouts to get there and seven minutes longer to get there would you do it or would you choose to order from amazon and just think about what would happen to main street if 40 to 60 of the 600 businesses that are on maine are gone and it becomes a ghost town because it's too hard to get to so thank you

2:03:28 mayor no other hands for business from the audience all right then i will open it up for council response if anybody lettered yeah i just wanted to thank steve swift and aloha hart i love the library too um you're looking at a bunch of library fans up here um victoria doyle thank you um steve kevin shaper made some great points and uh danny wright um i i i think you're making good points as well just about the difficulty of visualizing what this is going to look like and i'm sure that they're going to be modifications before this is done and i i would certainly advocate for as many visual aids as we can get that's all all right we do we did we have one more last

2:04:13 minute hand did i close it too quick mayor just as you were closing one last hand came up so just wanted to make you aware of that if they're still available let's give them a chance we still got time okay our next speaker is sj lore and sj you should be able to unmute your microphone yes thank you yeah um i just wanted to kind of chime in with we're a huge library fans as well and anytime there's opportunity to bring up the library and how wonderful they are um i'm all for that so i just wanted to kind of second that and then also someone spoke earlier in regards to a bridge you know with connecting clearwater to mount pisgah um i had never heard of any such thing

2:05:00 before and that would be something that would be extremely wonderful um if there's something like that holy crap have we been missing out i just know that our family would utilize that multiple times a week if that was something that was available because we frequent clearwater and the jasper trailhead area and we love it so i just wanted to share that with you guys that to us that's something that's important and if that's a possibility in the future sign us up because we'll advocate for that 100 that's a great idea hey sj could you could you list your name and location in the city for the record yes uh sj lore and we're in ward 4.

2:05:45 thank you all right any other council response uh the the two elements that that i had in and sj i think kevin i don't think kevin was referring to an actual project i think he was uh using that as a parable or a you know a metaphor for uh uh for for an issue um but could somebody from the staff follow up about the question for uh about from danny right about the drawings um and if if they do exist you know if they if you could share them with the uh with the council and put them in the packet for next week please

2:06:32 all right next item please next item is any business from the city council any additional business steve um my god i was gonna say over the over the years i've come to council meetings and we get very very few people coming in here to watch the meetings which i interpret that as we're doing a good job so so they leave us leave us alone as counselors but i've i've always felt that more people should should observe the council meetings so there was a time when springfield considered doing going video in the expense they didn't want to do that so they didn't now after covet we're on video now we've got 30 people online tonight that is fantastic i want to want the public to participate i want them to

2:07:18 watch us i want to know what's going on want them to ask questions we're there for them steve do you want to maybe talk about that little thing that happened in glenwood today before we uh paparazzi that were there i heard it was like 30 people watching a whole bean dig in the ground well i was already dug yeah well on on the uh uh west side of glenwood and where the hotels are the city put in a welcome to springfield sign big one beautiful one and good crowd there and uh it's uh and i've been asked after recognition like that for a long time and and i thank us for doing that it's about time and corey was there yeah

2:08:04 yeah and uh cory you wanna i do um first of all the sign's beautiful urban lumber company did the sign for us so that now we're we're bookended both in thurston and glenwood which i think is fantastic and because they're my people i just want to call out to the dpw folks who pre-dug the holes and we all got to like see how hard that was and we're there to like get everything on the level so it's exciting i think to to have nice things so yeah yeah it was it was a fantastic event thank you public works for helping to set that up and to have it match what we see on the thurston side you know just made it extra special especially with the world championships coming in and just

2:08:50 to put kind of a line in the sand that when you get into glenwood you are in springfield um it's the small things that help all right joe and i'd like to not like to but unfortunately to pop a bunch of balloons here that the signs already been tagged so we need to probably look at fixing it or fencing it or something but there you go it was one of the first things i mentioned as we put it up that it's going to be a potential target i don't know what to do about it i don't like that but you're right leonard um i i just wanted to go on record on how stoked i am that we've got a hometown baseball team now um yeah

2:09:36 i uh you know the uh and um our mayor was out to throw out the first pitch and um the drifters you got a lifelong fan in me that's for sure i mean let's uh let let's get out there and support them well and um if you haven't noticed uh their their cost point for tickets i think they were shooting for six dollars a ticket is really reasonable uh for to take the family to all right anything else all right next item please next item is business from the city manager item number one at springfield heritage award program proposal from the historic commission in collaboration with the springfield history museum committee and melissa courinho is here for the

2:10:21 staff report hi there sorry my um are you waiting for me this is melissa yes we are apologies um i my signal went um out for a little bit uh but yes um i think you all have the information in front of you for the heritage awards program proposal and i believe the mayor has additional talking points as well um but i'm here to answer any questions if they come up um could you just give us a brief kind of overview about where this came from

2:11:07 and kind of a the high level summary sure thing and um yes so uh in collaboration with the history museum the historic commission um dreamed of these heritage awards many many years ago and just recently was able to really detail some of the criteria the nomination process and the selections process there is an awards subcommittee made up of members of both the historic commission and the springfield history museum um and there are two awards there's a preservation award in the history history maker award um so and it's supposed to be very inclusive where

2:11:52 you know it's people who have made an impact in the past or are making an impact now and that will be making history i think that's a high level view of the awards program oh great thank you any any questions about this i think we're giving the head nod tonight to go forward and um let them work on this as a pilot project i'm seeing some head nods uh i was excited about this um it's always good to find different ways to recognize and tell the story of the city um and i'm eager to see what what what comes out of it so i think you've got the head nod that we're interested um definitely come

2:12:37 back and and give us more information when it gets it gets a little bit closer we'll do thank you next item please any other business from the city manager no further business thank you a business from the city attorney we have one item adoption of city council operating policies and procedures christina kras is here for the report hello uh city council i'm here for mary bridget smith today and this is following up on direction the council provided on may 2nd regarding updates to your council operating policies and procedures there are um i want to note a couple changes mentioned in the ais

2:13:24 regarding the attendance and public participation to reflect how you have been conducting virtual meetings more flexibility for the city manager to provide security at city council meetings and um public official ethics and non-discrimination statutes are now referenced in the types of laws the council is responsible for observing and then we've also added a new section addressing council vacancies and the section um differs from the previous version because it adds an exception for situations where a counselor elect could be appointed to fill a vacancy for example if someone on the council were to vacate their position right after a may primary for example

2:14:09 and there's a significant amount of time before they would take office but they have been elected the council could decide to appoint a counselor elect to fill a vacancy in that situation as opposed to doing the other type of setting a process for recruitment that's referenced and i'm happy to answer any questions that i can this is a project that mary bridget has primarily worked on although i haven't assisted her um and if i cannot answer a question we could bring this back to you potentially at another another date or you could adopt but ask for questions you know answers to questions following adoption that would also be an option merely i think this is something that council pictionary brought up before and i couldn't remember the exact amounts

2:14:56 but the the part in there that talks about the condolences and it gives a 50 limit and i was i was thinking 100 and and and that that would be a better it just says not to exceed 100 it doesn't mean we have to spend 100 here but this doesn't have to exceed it when you're talking as joe mentioned before when you're talking flowers or a flower arrangement 50 nowadays it doesn't doesn't cut it that well and so um if we could change that to be not exceeding a hundred dollars for those floor arrangements or those things that we would do for condolences um that i think i'm agreeing with joe from before i think that would be good

2:15:43 i believe that number may be related to the gift exception to public ethics rules um and so to the extent that a community member may also be a pub another public official um such as a city council or city employee who may have suffered a loss we may need to have two different two different limits for community members who are not public employees and those who are um so i think that is probably the reason that it is 50 in there um would the council be interested in setting two different dollar amounts keeping it at 50 or adopting it at 50 now and following up with additional information for future updates i i personally would rather go to 100 or else have two categories if they're if it ends i mean because most of the time it's not usually a

2:16:30 public official that would you would end up in a gift situation it's a family a spouse or a family member or something like that so um for the condolence condolences so but if it needs to be to fit the ethics i'd rather see two categories i could um we could revise that to an amount not to exceed a hundred dollars or as maybe limited under uh oregon government ethics law sure and then if the law were to change for example or if the law wasn't relevant um it would be a hundred dollars that that works that's i'm comfortable with that okay hi uh so i guess my biggest points of contention

2:17:16 have to do with uh the board's commission's committees and task force i just don't think the way that we operate is very equitable now i i think there's some things that need to be completely redone and redefined for example the application you know some people will you know add a couple of pages while others will focus on just what's you know allowed and so we need to change the application and we need to be very clear on hey we only write in this document you don't add anything or if we do we allow everybody to do so uh i think we need to redefine the council liaison role the role of the chair the role of the person i mean the staff member who is

2:18:03 assigned because we're asking these people to give time uh but why uh also figure out a way because i think there's a lot of work in silos when it comes to these boards and commissions and i don't know if there's really any meeting point where all the chairs come together and talk about how one hand washes the other it just seems that we're operating silos and so obviously we could spend a couple of work sessions just on reformatting the whole purpose and the operations of the boards and commissions because i just don't think that they're working and i also don't think that we're going to attract the best the brightest we're going to get the same type of demographics and we're going to

2:18:48 stay in this rut we're only attracting people who are comfortable here uh we're putting too much weight on some people and not others and we need to be honest we need to burn and start over leonard um oh okay i i was just sort of taking it with counselor pitt said um i um my my question is about the time frame specifically that the council would have discretion to appoint a counselor um after the may election is there any specific time frame that we would be able to do i guess this would be a question for christina let me go back to that section um

2:19:41 sorry i um so the um there is no specific timeline proposed for action um in section 2.3 of the operating policies and procedures but but it would be presumably between election day and the end of the year when you would be taking office correct that's the that's the assumption that once someone is um certified as a counselor sort of the um once aj city recorder certifies their nomination as a counselor elect then the council could appoint that person um to the remainder of the term sometime before they would otherwise take office got it thank you all right any other questions all right steve i think we need a motion

2:20:27 have we modified the motion i can share screen if the council would like to let me just share this real quick um i don't mind making the motion i just want to make sure i'm doing the right about 100 bucks right well yeah we've changed it correct so you could move to adopt the council operating policies and procedures with the um change to section 8.7 okay i make a motion and we adopt the the suggestions that a hundred dollars and um that's it i mean emotionally adopt is there is there a second i'll say

2:21:12 and christina was was that enough or do we need to rephrase that i think that's i'm understanding the motion to be um to change it to a hundred dollars as i'm sharing on my screen right now if that's correct then i think that with that clarification being on the record and the reporting for this meeting then that is fine all right it's been moved in seconded neil could you call the vote please yes counselor pitts uh sorry i have man i have a question so are we saying that this is the only change that we're making or we're just voting on this specific piece so the motion would be to adopt the draft documents it that we have with the

2:21:57 with this specific change included and i know you've got a question about um about working on boards and commissions if we could put a pin in that one and then come back to it because i think they're so they're tangential to each other okay so um so i mean i'm still confused because i don't want to approve it unless we make other changes because i mean this is a very long document and so uh but i'm okay with this piece here and so i don't want to approve the whole document so i'm going to say no

2:22:42 okay counselor mo yes council radley no counselor stare hide counselor woodrow yes and counselor pictionary yes thank you all right motion passes four yeses two two nays so i i i just didn't want to clarify that there will be a uh another discussion over the um the process of appointments is is that correct so i think we've got two separate questions going on there's not a there is there's not another planned discussion about appointments for vacancies i think we've put that to

2:23:29 sort of put that one to bed unless okay well i i i was voting i i i was voting yes with the understanding that we were going to have further discussion on all right okay all right so are you looking for a further discussion tonight and i don't know if christina or neil we could we can oh i wasn't talking about in this session i was just talking about in another session okay so let's so let's i think let's move on to that question so all right i mean what was the vote count i'm sorry i missed it this one does need to pass by two-thirds majority i had four yeses okay who knows thank you sorry okay so is there another question that's

2:24:15 specific to vacancies because i think damien's got a good question that we you know we may want to come back to here in a second you're talking about in this session well about scheduling more time to talk about the the committee issue that he's brought up but i i'm trying to figure out if you have a different issue no i i'm talking about the issue that counselor pitts brought up okay i think we should do it okay so i think yeah so we're not planning on coming back to any any sort of a conversation about uh vacancy processes related to filling sort of elected roles right now i think the conversation that i hear damien wanting to do is to get get into a broader conversations about boards committees um and everybody's sort of roles right do i

2:25:01 have that right damian that's correct okay so i think the bet we got kind of two pro we got two two pass here and i'm going to kind of look to see what you guys want to do i know i know this is an issue for councillor rodley as well um so we can do we can schedule time in the fall because we set this out as part of our um as part of our goal setting session and we just have to find time to get it done or what we can do is we've used a subcommittee in the past to sort of make a package of recommendations and do a little longer work and then come back and talk about talk about it to the broader to the broader council um i'm open to doing it either way um but where we the conversation that damien's describing is probably at least an hour

2:25:48 to find a spot for it and i want to make sure we don't walk past it anybody have an opinion here we do both like a hybrid of both like if we have a subcommittee and then bring it back for at least half a work session yeah i mean we we definitely can like because i think it's roles it's applications it's uh you know the appointment process um merely um yeah i think i think it needs to be done in two different parts because i think it needs to start out with an understanding of how how it exists now and what is it that that doesn't seem to fit right or doesn't seem to work right and and how would we want it how do we want it to look and how what kind of changes would we

2:26:33 want to make and i see i think that needs to be a two-part process okay so i'm going to take this back and steve and i will work on it um so steve and i can take the getting finding time in in the fall to schedule it nancy's writing notes for us right now for agenda review um i think i kind of need to know who's interested in doing extra subcommittee work about it um if you're i i'm interested i'm happy to do it okay i volunteered damien but he brought up the idea i vote for damian also y'all got me for six more months so his idea his time

2:27:18 yeah little known fact joe damian was bringing pizza to this what time is the meeting it's all right so i have corey joe joe leonard uh and damien interested in the subcommittee um let us work on it a little bit and then we'll we'll be in contact with folks but that way we don't lose this conversation i know there's been a lot of interest in it and people wanting to have it for uh for 2022. all right any other questions about this very good any other items neil any other business from the city attorney

2:28:03 no more business thank you all right we are adjourned thank you everybody