Springfield City Council — October 24, 2022

0:08 ER fire though I'm going to call the city council work session to order with the Roll Call mayor Van Gordon here councilor Pitts here that's the remote here councilor Rodney here answer stair here answer Woodrow and counselor Pictionary uh councilor Woodrow and counselor Pictionary are excused for the evening we've got I believe two items tonight two items tonight uh the new fire engine at Station 14 with fire chief Mike Cavin I feel do you want me to yell come on down yeah I'm just waiting for the formula at the podium perfect well thanks for having me

0:53 um we wanted to share our new fire engine with you um and in some discussions with uh staff just kind of recognizing what we're still in this hybrid environment uh it was decided that here at the work session with the AIS and the pictures that we sent ahead of time would be a good opportunity but for those who want to see it in person don't tell them yet but we have assigned the crew to be down here for the trick-or-treat with a new fire engine so that both staff and the community get an opportunity to to look at it get their hands on it and and see this investment that the city made um but basically uh we want to express our gratitude for the investment uh that uh the city and the council have made uh within the fire department with the newest fire engine uh which is stationed

1:39 out at engine 14 at 48th and Main Street it replaces uh an engine from 1997. so it sounds old um but we we like to use our apparatus front line for a period of time and then move them to slower stations and then eventually into Reserve status before we move them out so this newest fire engine it meets some new goals of ours both in crew safety the overall vehicle construction its power plant it has disc brakes it's incredibly safe to drive and navigate through our community streets uh the apparatus is designed to remove carcinogens from the cab meaning the crew is able to keep their toxic firefighting gear in compartments that are accessible but on the outside of the

2:25 apparatus other design things that we took into account that you'll see on some of the pictures that we sent over were some accessible hose beds meaning the crews didn't have to jump onto the side of the fire truck to deploy a hose on a fire reducing the injuries back injuries from twisting turning Etc are ladders are pulled straight out of the back of the truck which is a little bit smoother safer but also it reduces the amount of time to get the ladder out on the ground to make rescues from elevated positions so this investment that the city's made is is truly valuable to the fire department and our overall planning and deployment um so with that I trust that you guys got your pictures in the the As and had

3:11 an opportunity to to review them if you had any questions I'm happy to answer any Leonard so um if uh the letters pull straight out of the back of the truck they uh that reduces the odds of our riding up and down on the ladder oh no there's still a ladder truck out there oh okay Tower three still in existence these are only 24 foot long and that one's 100 feet alrighty so there's there'll still be an opportunity there we'll be back at you here in a few years to talk about replacement of that one too but good deal hey Leonard you notice that it's at the fire station nearest to Ward four well I I would hope so it's that kind of service and if it and if we take it down to it uh trick or treat you have to let

3:56 other people sit in the front seat okay well unfortunately you can't monopolize the entire we'll see all right other questions so yeah this one this one was pretty this one was pretty easy so what kind of mileage is the thing like this um do we have to have that in the public setting um uh they're they're not the most fuel efficient um but technology is is now starting to emerge with hybrid fire trucks uh Portland's testing one right now they say it's electric but it has a big Diesel power plant in it as well um to make sure that we can still do our work and so we've got our eyes on that but these are investments that you see you make you know they're 25 years at a time

4:41 um and so catching up with those those savings and and those opportunities they come over over time with technology and we definitely have our eye out on that so Corey it's beautiful that's like where I have no questions I'm excited to see it it's gorgeous always I always like a shiny red fire truck so I'm excited about it they're fantastic and this is our third iteration of of what we call the Metro spec right the Eugene Springfield specification for a fire truck um we've kind of kind of honed it in this is the one and this is the first one that's arrived but I I'm sorry counselor Mo that it's not orange I already asked him if it was orange

5:26 so we've got one left one well Steve it's the Springfield Eugene Metro spec if that helps but and like I told counselor Mo I think for the record uh Springfield changed from Orange to Black over red before the merger and and they set the Metro color scheme for us so this is this is a Springfield was a front runner on that thank you great it looks absolutely beautiful I can't wait to see it yeah we're looking forward to showing it off and again just appreciate the investment and wanted to make sure you guys knew about it okay great hopefully we'll see you again soon for other fire issues uh I'm sure I'm sure we've got plenty to work on all right thanks

6:11 all right the next one is Springfield's evolving housing strategy with Katie and Aaron oh in live and in person

6:58 thank you great thank you I can tell the story about policy for station identification

7:50 okay I'm going to go ahead and get started while Aaron pulls stuff up because we don't need to share the screen right away is this good okay great so good evening Marion counselors my name is Katie Carroll and I'm the city's housing analyst and this is Erin Fifield and she is the Community Development analyst um so the purpose of tonight's session is really to give the council an opportunity to see all of the work that the city is currently doing to address Springfield's housing needs in one place um usually when we're coming to you it's to discuss one or a few programs at a time so it's been a while since the council has been able to see the breadth of the work that the city is doing on housing and then maybe the first time for some members of the council so tonight's also an opportunity to

8:35 review and provide any feedback on the draft updated housing strategy this is something that Council directed staff to work on back in May and that's attachment to in your package tonight or obviously if you're in the council chambers we've given you a copy of that we've also in the pocket given you the current draft uh sorry the current housing strategy handout so that's attachment three and I say current but I think it was last updated in January of 2019 but just to give you an idea of what that looked like [Music] um so the housing strategy originally came out of several discussions that Council had between 2016 and 2017 about Springfield's housing needs and what the

9:21 council wanted to do to address those and those discussions were based on some pretty extensive staff analysis done at the time that found that Springfield generally needed a greater supply of housing kind of across the housing Continuum so in terms of diversity and affordability and the original packet that kicked into progress oh sorry oh I think you need to mute okay sorry about that Tech issue um so the original packet that kicked off those discussions that has all the staff analysis that was done at that time is hyperlinked in your memo should anyone want to go back and look at that um and since the housing strategy was

10:06 put together obviously the city has made progress on implementing some of the actions Council identified and then we've also been able to do some additional work when we've received one-time funds so for example covid dollars there were some funds that went towards housing during that um so as part of fulfilling State requirements that came out of house bill 2003 and 2019 the city and the council are going to do a much deeper dive on housing in the coming years um and that's to create the housing Capacity Analysis so you probably have heard of that as the housing needs analysis and then also a housing production strategy and what those processes will have us do is I uh anticipate Springfield's housing needs

10:51 for the next few decades and then it'll require the city to determine what actions it would like to take to help meet the housing needs that have been identified through that process so this state mandated process will allow us to revisit what the city is currently doing to address housing and then to discuss other strategies that the council might want to implement to help meet the housing needs that have been identified tonight's packet and session are really more focused on reviewing the efforts that Council has already approved that are in place are being worked on to address housing in our community we're going to keep our presentation fairly short to give you ample time to discuss what the city is currently doing ask any questions of Staff about those

11:36 programs and then obviously give any feedback you'd like on that draft handout and for our presentation we're going to walk through the handout to help Orient Council to what's on it and then turn the time back over to you the goal of the handout is hopefully to give Council and the city something that can be shared with our partners and the public that gives a quick overview of what is going on in Springfield in terms of Housing and then what actions the city is currently taking that Council has approved Aaron if you could pull that up um and before we get started I just wanted to give thanks to book mossiphan on our Communications team she's a really talented graphic designer and was super instrumental in helping us get this put together

12:22 so we're going to start with the back side of the handout or the second page tonight so what this has on it are just some highlights of data around what's going on in Springfield in terms of the housing market and development and there is more data available to you in attachment four of your pocket which is the housing data snapshot I believe is what we called it and neither of those is really a comprehensive look at housing needs or development Trends in Springfield the purpose more is just to give Council some additional background information on what's going on right now so again that's something we're going to have to dive into more in the next couple of years for those State mandated processes so on this left side of the handout this

13:10 is really focused on Springfield's housing market so what I'll highlight from here is Springfield does have a really low vacancy rate that's something that the city has had as a challenge for several years again that's related to a need for more supply of Housing and then could you scroll down a little bit the bottom part of this left side is communicating some information about what's going on in terms of the cost of housing and the availability of housing in the Springfield and then top right of the handout so this is talking about what types of housing Springfield has and development so Springfield does have a mix of different housing types it is majority

13:55 single family or single unit dwellings the city has issued a lot of building permits in the last several years which is great that speaks to that need for increased Supply you scroll down a little and then this bottom right corner is just providing some context on the need for housing that's affordable in the community and what I'll draw your attention to on this is that pie chart in the bottom right corner so what this is saying is that 53.8 percent of Springfield households are homeowner households and 46.2 are renters we have slightly more homeowners than renters in the community and then of homeowners 25 so about a quarter of those are cost burdened and almost half of renters 46 percent are

14:42 cost burden and that's a term that we use to talk about housing affordability and what cost burdening means is that if a household is paying 30 percent or more of their income on housing they're considered cost burden um so that's kind of what this back page is showing and I'm going to turn it over to Aaron now to walk us through the front page and what Springfield is currently doing thank you Katie um so Katie mentioned the handout is a summary of the actions that you all have approved over the years um it's meant to serve as the summary um and these are actions again that

15:27 address uh housing needs to both increase the supply of housing as well as accessibility of affordable housing and sort of maintaining existing stock I'll mention that this list of actions include they recognize ongoing and one-time state and federal funds that are also intended to assist affordable housing developers with their projects and to support existing low-income homeowners and home buyers with financial assistance um just as a reminder for us all the city does not own or develop housing um sort of we help we work with Partners sort of in the community to help them figure out how can they best develop what is needed in the community and to also recognize that there are a number of Market forces that the city does not

16:13 control that also affect the development of Housing and so this list is sort of a summary of actions that are that are within the city's control that you've chosen sort of to act on um and I guess the last point I'll make is that there's certainly Community Partners that we've seen certainly mwmc and others that have sort of stepped up and also made efforts to sort of again help to increase the supply of affordable housing so again this is just what city council has chosen within sort of the control that you have um so I'll just touch a little bit on the list to highlight some things that may be new or have changed since the last time we've brought this to you um so starting with the Sheltering section um since 2016 the city has continued to

16:59 support the overnight parking program recently you've expanded um sort of where folks living in vehicles are allowed to park during the pandemic we've also seen additional need for shelter and we've seen that with your decisions sort of recently renew the RV ordinance serving as temporary housing but then also to approve emergency shelter with mainstream housing for example and the palace shelters that most recently came in as a um sort of I guess longer term Sheltering site under house bill 2006. and as well as say under shelter the city has continued to support Eagan warming we're sort of still trying to

17:45 figure out how to make that a sort of a long-term situation and I believe the Ceta item after this work session we'll talk about it further um under the affordable housing development section you'll see a lot of these activities are mostly determined by federal funds that the city receives again to increase the availability of affordable rental housing this includes uh Federal home funds that we award to development projects as well as using cdbg funds to look for and acquired land for development projects there are also additional sort of recognizing like fee waivers and tax exemptions that the city has chosen to enact to further support developers developing affordable housing I'll point out for renter assistance

18:31 there are two actions listed there rent assistance for low-income households and support toward the Springfield Eugene tenants Association both of those activities are one time they're a result of one-time cdbg coronavirus relief funds that Council chose to support but those funds are intended to run out be fully used by the end of this fiscal year so it's included here as a step that's been taken but just really highlighting it is a one-time effort um the homeownership assistance again home report home the home repair program and the Springfield homeownership um assistance program those two programs are funded with cdbg funds again each year the question comes

19:18 to council how would you like to award cdbg funds and as long as I've been here and before this Council has said yes to supporting existing home buyers existing homeowners with needed repairs to sort of maintain the housing stock but then also helping low-income owners get into a home in Springfield and so then finally the bottom right housing diversity and production section sort of calls out what the city is doing to increase the supply of a housing and the diversity of housing but not tied to income so those actions are we were talking about the development code certainly update that we saw in July 1 but then also the recent SDC waiver

20:03 sorry not the recent but the SDC waiver for adus and then sort of the continue conversation around housing diversity tax exemption for multi-unit housing so um it's kind of a summary of all the things but again just wanted to present it in this format so it's all in one place as a means of something we can talk to our partners about you can speak to and get a fuller picture of what you've all said yes to Leonard thanks mayor um thanks for the report I I wonder if there could be another category of what you might call under housed um people who are living in buildings or structures that are not

20:49 really designed for housing like storage sheds or garages or abandoned buildings um if you um if somebody's living out of their car they considered unhoused yes okay yes um if they're living in someone's garage I mean I guess it ultimately comes down to who's defining it but HUD would say yes okay um so this this 990 um includes the figures of people who are living through the kindness of other residents so that figure um that you're talking about that's on the handout so that's something that Lane County puts together and they actually sorry I'm just flipping to it so I can make sure I'm speaking into it

21:35 correctly but I think that they do not count um some of what you are referring to so um that number doesn't include individuals who are in transitional housing or doubling up so I think when you're saying if someone's staying in someone's garage I think that's more of a doubling up situation so it may not be capturing that okay um that's that's what I got right now thanks Corey is this is this the place where we get to talk about all the things okay good um I got things first I really appreciate this because it's great to see it all together and I think that you know a lot of these are past decisions and this is we're seeing transitions around this we're seeing more funding coming in for some things a few things I want to just

22:21 sort of chat about and I think and again this is my opinion on one person unless I can convince everybody else that I know what I'm talking about but um in the Sheltering we have not really looked into like transitional housing or um you know what would that look at if we had it look like if we had tiny homes and you know sort of like a square one Villages kind of thing in Springfield and I think particularly as we started to have to to Really address the changes in um the requirements around homelessness in public spaces just thinking about what are we going to do as a city and what is going to be our our priorities around that is I think there's room for us to get more intentional about and again like I'm constantly talking about like oh the

23:06 whole spectrum of Housing and so I've been thinking about what some of the gaps are and that's one of the gaps for us another one um like you pointed out with renter assistance we just do that one time I'm funding and I mentioned this a little bit and said I want to talk about it and I'm not saying we have to do what Eugene does and there are other municipalities that do it but they have sort of rental housing code enforcement which provides mediation and kind of does that mediation work between landlords and renters that can help to prevent people from becoming homeless and I know just in my neighborhood there are people who are in Section 8 or have you know are in a in a substandard housing who are

23:51 afraid to say anything about repairs or things that they need made because there's no there's no way to ensure that they're they're not going to be you know homeless and I was thinking particularly on the other side where you're talking about that that um 88 of our housing is more than 20 years old so that just that sort of code enforcement and that you know making sure that people can stay in these homes or they have a place to go with complaints or or any of those things so the the I don't even know what Eugene calls us like Eugene housing code something and they fund it through they have like a staff person or two and if I'm lying somebody can tell me I'm lying they have like a staff person or two and it's funded through landlords paying a per unit fee every year and it's like ten dollars

24:37 twenty dollars something that helps to fund them being able to do this mediation to keep people from becoming homeless because of housing conditions so that's the thing I would love or something similar like how do we keep people in their homes to prevent them becoming homeless um and that's a piece that I think that is a possibility for us to dig into a little bit more and then this and I know you all probably know about it um but you know house bill I think it's 2100 I will never be one of those people who knows that but there's there's been some work at the state level um a task force to address racial disparities in terms of Housing and home ownership and I think there's some funding that's coming through the county they may even have the RFP live um to help provide down payments and

25:23 incentivize home ownership for um people of color that's going to be throughout the county I'm not sure how that affects us except for um it's just this additional investment into home ownership and I know we've talked over the past couple years that you know we have that 25 000 for a down payment and because of the down payment assistance for home ownership but because of the market it's been hard to actually spend it but I would love to see us as the market slows just kind of just double down or figure out how do we really get intentional about supporting homeownership particularly for lower income folks or people who have you know had been people of color people who've had

26:09 marginalized experiences so that we can um just invest in that so I'm going to stop I could probably talk forever as you know and let other folks talk I think Damian Damien hi um so I guess my question is uh uh so and I've said this before I mean I think there's a difference between creating housing and creating communities and the way I see it we can bring in people and you know and have have a place to lay their head but it's not a place that they will consider a home because there's nothing that connects them to that area to that Community uh and kind of piggyback on what council Riley said you know as far as you know minoritized populations you know low SES

26:56 folks like I want them to be able to find a place in Springfield but the truth matter is there are just so many elements that will keep people out or they might be there temporarily and then they move out and so you have a rotation of people who already live here versus people who actually want to plant roots and so I'll just curious what type of community organizations or even like small businesses that could potentially be subsidized to create you know jobs or anything there because I just really see us focusing so much on housing but not creating a space that people will want to stay and so that this good is only going to be temporary versus permanent

27:46 did you want to go ahead and respond to that this list I guess I'm speaking from it's an explicit housing perspective um and in many ways some like a lot of these actions are in response to funding how do we spend funding to help certain sort of either develop new housing or whatever that broader question around investment in the community um I think is a great one especially recognizing how do folks stay or how do we get folks to stay and sort of the the less tangible the things that aren't going to go on the back side of this handout I suppose and sort of numbers and data so

28:32 um I think I for myself I think I'm gonna keep that as a nugget probably when we talk about broader Community needs um especially when it comes to like helping small business and are there ways we're seeing a need for housing as they're maybe preventing someone from moving in and are there ways to sort of connect the two as well but um I don't have an answer per se but I appreciate the comment and sort of keep it keep it not the back but I guess to the side somewhere present in the front and then I think the only thing I'll add on to that too is um pardon me as I look at this because I'm still getting familiar with what that house bill 2003 process will have us do but some of what we need to do is speak

29:18 um to fair and Equitable housing outcomes but some of that's talking about um displacement and gentrification things like that too that I think also speaks to your comment about your comment question about um getting people in the community but keeping them here too so that is something that's going to be part of that upcoming process foreign one of the initial comments that I had and I understand that we're like this is an iteration on a sheet that we produced three years ago and that we're really gonna dive into um how do we actually build some a strategy that makes some make some sort of sense um one of the places I would like to see

30:03 a little bit more information is just understanding programming that the county has available out of Human Services I mean that material exists online it could be a memo that our citizens partake of right because one of the um interesting sort of threads that we always talk about with with folks is you know people are going okay right what does Springfield do for Human Services and the I think the reality is that a lot the by the one of the core missions is the county is the health department is that they are the past or Agency for a significant amount of money and resources so in a lot of ways I want to see this through a filter of if the county does a service that we can

30:49 partake of or utilize we don't need to duplicate the service and I think that that's important for us as a body to understand but also really important for us to be able to explain to the community because that's a kind of a nuanced view on on how you know how government services have the city of Springfield's not responsible for all services ever though we should supplement and figure out how to work on on housing stock and and have and how it's created um uh and work with work with the county the second thing that um I thought was really really important about this is if you don't see on the on the housing snapshots sheet we've actually issued a lot of building permits we've had the

31:34 last couple of years in Springfield have been good building years and we've been pretty lucky that that that that has happened right because that's been the exercise of all the work that we've done that has gotten us to this point plus all the work that we've done partnering with people uh like the developer around Marcola Meadows to add physically more units so one question that I that I am keep that I keep thinking of myself is okay after Marcola Meadows is built out which is probably the biggest open land that we still have left what's next right part of that answer we know is in Glenwood part of that answer you know is in the sort of Jasper Natron but trying to get context around if we need to continue to build density and build more units right

32:19 we need to think Pat like five steps Beyond just some simply Marcola Meadows and also collectively kind of high-five ourselves because we built a lot of housing the last couple of years and we still need more um the other uh the other thing that I would uh I guess point out about the uh the housing strategy as a whole what we created a lot of programs the last couple of years right and we've gotten pretty creative for different programs to do how do we score their effectiveness so we've talked about that a little bit too and I think that's a tricky question to answer because as Aaron alluded to earlier there are all these

33:05 other forces out there um so where it was available in the memo we did try and sort of highlight you know we've had this many of that or um but I think yeah it's a tricky question of how do you figure out if this is effective when there are kind of these other forces that impact that um and then the I guess the other the other couple of uh of things that really stuck out to me was when we talk about a strategy right we need to probably like we uh we need to talk more about what the legislative plan for next year is going to be in you know what do we advocate for from the legislative committee and how does that tie tie out so I think the question the follow-up question is to try to get a list of

33:50 um other things that we're beginning to track at the state level so that you know the the counselors that sit on that that committee can really try to dive in and understand well where do we put our time and energy that actually frees up resources for us to actually build build units um and I think lastly and this is just a a general observation right is that if we go into this you know this housing production strategy this is the classic uh classic quandary that the state has right if we if we write a better report it doesn't actually change you know the available units on the ground right so I think really unders maybe understanding or getting a kind of a

34:35 uh you know maybe it's a Gantt chart but the the kind of the picture of all the work that the housing groups got lined out for the next year right because there's the housing production strategy you've rattled off four or five things here and uh you know there's the mobile home you know money that we that we keep talking about you know for Linda Lane but there's a lot of other pieces that are really more forward-facing this this is a good document that is sort of a backward facing what did we agree to now and I'm really looking for us to kind of turn the turn the corner and ask that forward-facing question about well what's coming at us right

35:21 I guess as someone who's not going to lead the house bill 2003 housing protection strategy I think what I'm excited about it is sort of that broader question of sort of this is what you've agreed to but that effort is sort of gonna be a little forward-facing to say what do we need to do to solve these things as opposed to this is what we're doing because we received money for it because the state told us we had to do it Etc but now let's think about it and like tie it back to sort of what we're actually seeing the needs are or will be um so hopefully that'll excite that futuristic conversation all right Leonard so um I'm glad you brought up gentrification um because I'm looking at the average sale price of these houses

36:06 and it's not theoretical anymore I mean we're we're not talking about some future event the um I I just um put the pencil to it um I think the 72 000 is a 17 increase and um over the two years the years siding here it's over a 30 increase in the average sale price here in Springfield and that leads me to wonder um when you're calculating the number of homeowners and renters that are cost burdened you count somebody who is doubling up I mean if they're if they're paying half the rent on one of these units are they considered crossword so I'm not um sure the answer to that because we are not actually counting

36:51 this so this is data that um HUD gets from the Census um so it's how the census calculates it which I'm not sure well based on what I was looking at here with a two-bedroom apartment at 11.76 um it would you would have to be making twenty three dollars an hour I mean not to be cost burdened by that rent and it seems high yeah and I guess just um some context to what that fair market rent is so that's a number that HUD calculates every year for a moderately priced um unit um and that's kind of a benchmark that they use to figure out what their Section 8 or their housing Choice vouchers are going to be based on and some other project uh programs too so

37:37 just kind of providing some context of what HUD says a moderately priced unit in the market is so in order to qualify for the vouchers you would have to be burdened in some way or how what what's the much more competitrated I'm not I'd have to get back to you on exactly I think there's very much a formula that HUD loves to sort of create to sort of figure out what that actually is but I'm happy to share it that would be great like yeah I don't want to miss out can you can we also look at the the there's a question on the snapshot side with the top left hand corner that says what is affordable housing and I and I think it's a it just may be a language piece right because that's that cost burden threshold but also we describe affordable housing like a product you

38:24 know too and we're sort of you know we're and that just may be a point that's got to be clarified um so yes what is like affordability and yeah right affordable affordable housing to people you know in the middle part of their career or professionals right I guess there's a difference between what is Affordable based on your income level versus what is affordable housing is a product in the in the market great yeah we can clarify all right other questions the data look is really interesting like you know um and I think you guys said Brooke helped put it together but like just to

39:10 see what the rental picture is and understand what the actual cost you know cost level is like it is a really good spreadsheet Corey yeah I mean I don't know that that's that this is part of this conversation um but you know down in that on the snapshot side down in that lower right hand corner you know just just thinking about um the cost burden of housing for homeowners and renters I mean it's so High um and I think that just it just touches on so many things so I'm just saying that out loud and that it's just it just yeah um because that's not just about housing

39:55 that's about all of the things and um I just saying that out loud so we will probably see you guys again in the winter about something I'm sure yeah um I'll just add this is going to be made available on the website where it'll live um and probably have copies in CMO but however that way you can direct folks to it or reference it um as you see fit and go ahead Steve I've been quietly pushing more housing we need more housing we need more more housing all kinds for everybody and whatever it is we need to do it

40:44 um yes um and I appreciate that because the one thing I wanted to say this is going to be on the website and I wonder also if I would love to hear from folks especially as we're thinking forward and I don't know if that's just people come talk to us or if we do some sort of intentional Outreach or surveys or things to just sort of find out where people are coming out of the pandemic where people are come in this maybe is maybe isn't recession I mean I would love to hear from folks about what their needs are what they see their needs are what kind of housing do they think they're going to be in 10 years from now and I mean I know that's a lot but it's just to actually have that dialogue with the residents of Springfield and to include some of those things that like counselor

41:29 Pitts says you know like is it just about cost burden or is it are there Community factors that we as policy makers may be able to influence that's going to make it easier better whatever for folks to stay so if there's a way to do some sort of Outreach and really start to get some engagement I would love to hear that too okay two more things and then we we really will let you let you go as a group I think we need to keep talking about this to our team Springfield Partners one of the things that's not real that does not really come out in this is the different roles other governments play from everything from their system development charges to the electric crate to really make housing affordable and that's not like we like I'm sure those issues are out you know we can find some that can uh that we can

42:14 identify but us telling other boards that this is important and they should look at other the policies that they have that contribute to you know the housing crunch that we're in is an important way um way to sort of message this the other piece that I think um is really important is we we have a lot of programs already in the city right like and we have a lot of programs that exist in in the county and we have I don't know like 3 500 non-profits that are in Lane County um really is as we continue this conversation I would love to make to really look at what people are doing and not try to add more programs more uh more programs more organizations more sort of overhead but instead ask the

43:00 question that says okay if we see something that we need maybe somebody does it we just have to scale it differently or we need to expand it or we need to like we don't need it you know the last thing we need to do is add more programs without looking at holistically what the whole picture is so that we can see if uh see if somebody has has a solution already and find a piece of land because when we go to home Consortium I'm tired of hearing it from Corey about land banking official Land Bank program in Springfield Oregon we're doing it you're doing it I appreciate it all right I know we gave you lots of opinions um thank you it looks good we'll talk to you guys soon appreciate you yeah thanks

43:46 and that's the last item for us so I'm going to adjourn uh the work session don't go anywhere we no we we're going to a different link for the the aceto go somewhere else Yes somewhere else yes so if you're in the room you do not have to leave but if you're watching at home we'll go to the new link