Springfield City Council — May 8, 2023

0:04 I'm going to call the work session of the Springfield City Council to order with roll call Mayor Van Gordon here councilor Weber here councilman councilor Radley here counselor Blackwell here counselor Doyle here and councilor Visionary here thank you we have two items tonight the first is the Goshen Industrial Area update right um you'll love to hear from you for too long tonight bring a couple Folks up to help join me so a good evening mayor and Council I wanted to be here with you tonight uh provide an update on the Goshen industrial area project as you might know the county has been working to advance this project for a number of years and they're now in a position to take the next steps to make the project move forward so back in uh January the

0:49 county came to the mwc to our board and made a presentation on the project that was following a presentation they had done about a year prior um and indicated they're in a position to move forward uh counselor Pictionary and counselor Jennifer yay from Eugene requested that staff in the county come to the councils of each City for a work session uh prior to coming back to you in the in Your Capacity as the joint elected officials later this fall if you uh answer any questions you have and give the councils a project update so that's why over here with you tonight we did in late March go to the Eugene city council and gave them a very similar or substantially the same presentation as what you're going to see this evening I heard some some questions from them and answered a few concerns

1:34 um and so with that basically I'd note that I'm here representing Springfield but I'm also here in my capacity as the executive officer for mwc so any questions you have related to mwc I could try to answer those um and yeah I think I'm not sure I think it's Dan and Rob can come up and join me and I'll turn it over to them they'll lead a PowerPoint presentation hey man um it's a pleasure to be here with you um we're excited to move this project along it's a project that's been uh kind of inching along for quite a number of years um yes we've got a couple new pieces that are on the table yeah sorry thank you so my name is Dan Hurley I'm the Public Works director at Lane County um Jordan by Rob Robert Woodard uh

2:20 Special Districts project manager for Lane County and also joined with Jared by Jared pattern associate planner for the county department of Mr land use parts of this thank you for that application um so this project today I thought had been going on for about 10 or so years but our County Surveyor recently found a study that's from 1968 um the submerged study for Goshen so he went some riveting bedtime reading I'm happy to learn that out um but this idea has been out there for quite some time um but the county really started moving this forward um about 10 years or so years ago and let's see if it's

3:13 maybe can someone just advance from slides for me absolutely thank you all right so we're here today because we're getting ready for the next steps steps of this which would require action by you all um we're hoping in the fall with a metro plan Amendment um wanted to get this in front of you to bring you up to date on where the project is now um before your Planning Commission starts deliberating on this and before we come back for um expected action from you all um just to set the the context here you're probably all familiar with Goshen if you've driven through it it's sort of a languishing community out there the county would really like to see be developed into a regional asset um so just about five six miles south of Springfield area

3:58 um we have Langley College on there Oak Hill School um as also identified as potential options for for connecting into a Wastewater system but that's not the topic we're here today and there's a number of reasons for that that could be a future phase if if um the cities and the county are interested in exploring that further and that would come after that but today we're just talking about the potential of connecting Goshen to the Wastewater system I think it's working the batteries okay there we go all right um so you may drive through Goshen not not think much of it but it is actually a kind of a unique area that could be a tremendous asset to the the region um namely being it has a large number of

4:44 um and vegetable Acres so um 233 General industrial and another 83 in light Industrial and there are another other a list of other and important attributes around Goshen um already mentioned you know largely 300 acres of continuous industrial land which which is unique in the state um it also has um great Access Transportation wise at the Nexus of I-5 Highway 99 and Highway 58 there and also the rail line you know could be a potential asset for industrial developments in that area also Bonneville power you know if there was some large power need their potential hydrogen green hydrogen fuel could be located in that area to draw on that power it already has an established

5:29 water district um good Communications and then the big thing you know the proximity within um closeness to Eugene Springfield where it could Supply labor and and well-paying jobs for the community um so again this goes back to the 60s of you know wanting to develop ocean uh big reason it hasn't has been this infrastructure piece and the sewer infrastructure and the regulatory barriers around that so we want to talk to you about those barriers today and and kind of what we're looking for from you all so just some background on this again this goes back um so 2011 um the board made it a goal by 2017 and we've missed that uh Lane County will transform the existing industrial Landing Goshen to support increased levels of development resulting in jobs

6:14 that pay no less than 150 percent of the median wage and at that time it was estimated that around two to three thousand in industrial manufacturing jobs can be created and this was in the wake of the Great Recession um and there was a lot of interest in trying to generate economic activity it's still important today um we went through a process uh the rsia regionally significant industrial Industrial Area um through business Oregon to get this designation um and that would give the area some specific advantages for zoning job creation Expediting permit reviews those that sort of thing this program uh with through business organ expired and it's

7:00 been replaced by it's called the rsis the regionally significant industrial site and we haven't applied for that but this could be also attainable for Goshen and give similar benefits I mean so um from that goal the county then developed what was called the great plan the Goshen Regional employment and transition plan um your your own Mark Rust I think was the primary author on this and did some terrific work at that time to develop a great job um so the big piece of this was to up Zone um the the zoning in Goshen to allow for urban levels of Industrial Development and that work has is complete that's not

7:46 a part of the discussion today um it went through quite a process to to have acceptance by that which included uh Luba remand which lane used land use should be land use um board of appeals um and the one of the biggest barriers within that was to show that we it could be serviced and have sewage facilities so we went through some studies on that so there was the RSA designation the great plan um the next piece we needed to do was a Wastewater feasibility study to show that these industrial lands could be serviced by some sort of a Wastewater system and that looked at a few different options um primary ones being a lagoon system like Lane Community College something like that

8:31 um but ultimately was it was found that um just like back in the 60s it was recommended that tying into the Eugene Springfield metro Wastewater system would be the most economical so did somebody appeal it because if you went to Luba then obviously was that people that lived there that didn't want it no it was um I think County okay so just as some group some organization okay so because I mean it had to go if we went to Luba it went through several steps of of them right yeah there were there were three pieces of remand the one that's um relevant to this conversation was this the Wastewater piece what was their contention for for appeal what why did

9:18 they Mark might be able to speak to that like and I I don't know yeah whether I should really speak to this or not but I will and it's um jobs was one of their conventions about that two thousand to three thousand job thing there were a couple points they raised it was remanded and then it was reapproved by the boarding County Commissioners and wasn't appealed again so it was finalized but sewer was one of those things so we added some additional findings on the remand and then it was re-adopted yeah and I wasn't very involved until this became more of a public works project so I'm not familiar with the long history of the land use parts of it I don't know if you're you want to speak to anything on that but I don't have much more than what Lawrence said but there was a bit of a infrastructure element to the Aruba appeals that was

10:05 addressed upon today man but I could definitely get you more information on that I just don't have that handy but all the pieces of the remand and the reasons behind that but happy to give that to your Kessler um so after the Wastewater is feasibility study which had a recommended option um we went through a second piece around the financial aspects of that of how how this would be administered and estimates on the financial aspects um and then we sort of took a pause through covid there were higher priority pieces things going on and um no real identified funding on this but um with the influx of federal funding we wanted to see if we could get this to a

10:50 shovel ready project to potentially tap into some resources that could be coming for this project um so we finalized a sort of a preliminary engineering study called the project definition report in 2022 and then we engaged again with mwmc to see if this was still something that would be potentially supported so I will tell you a little bit about the scope of the project so with the recommended route for this is down Highway 99 um it's about 17 000 linear feet of sewer line and it involves about four and will involve four pump stations um the connection is to an 18-inch main up on Franklin Boulevard and that's that's the the point of connection to

11:35 the system uh it'll serve approximately 444 acres and at the full build out um it'll be 560 000 gallons per day uh the set there's another phase to this project uh along with the Goshen uh Wastewater line and that's a line that goes to the short Mountain landfill currently there's uh leachate which is trucked um from this particular site and it was anticipated that uh a line to there would would benefit the community much more and just be a lot more efficient so uh the total route right now the the uh the leachate is truck is about six and a quarter miles one way

12:20 Iran consider folks that aren't familiar with the word leachate um so that's the Wastewater that comes out of the landfill so there's the rain water that falls on it the the water that's already in the waste and that um kind of trickles down and gets collected and and then we have to truck that off for treatment um that currently goes to mwmc and did you want to say something on them I just want to say so let's clear it it's truck to the global Transfer Facility Energy System and comes to our to our premium plants so it's not additional flow it's just I mean it's getting the trucks off the road okay thanks for clarifying that and that's a big piece you know we've identified in our climate action plan of reducing emissions um we have trucks constantly Trucking this this we've been doing it since 1997 um and

13:06 that becomes an operational challenge you know particularly during the wet time of year sometimes we have to ramp into 24-hour operations with three trucks moving um and it's a significant carbon emissions impact and we'd love to get those trucks off the road so that's why there was that second piece of extending out to the landfill if we get as far as Goshen might as well try to bring the landfill in so Dan what's the what's the fiscal impact of removing that whole Lane um it's about last time I estimated that was a over 300 000 a year so we're just Trucking Contracting yeah okay thank you [Music] so total costs um instruction costs 14.4 million and then total project costs that 25 million um look these are very preliminary

13:51 um those total project costs include the engineering design uh permitting buy-in cost to mwmc which we haven't finalized we have quite a bit of work to do there um but the big piece that's that's preventing us from doing this project is the metro plan in particular this policy number 26 it says waste water and Water Services shall not be provided outside the ugb the urban growth boundary except to the following areas so um this area is not listed but there is precedent for naming specific areas that are of regional importance such as the Eugene Airport so what we would be looking to do would be to add these areas to that list of exceptions or we could just bring uh bring it into our ugb and call it good yeah that's a

14:38 longer process moment possible um and then if this happened to amend the metro plan we would also need to amend the intergovernmental agreement with mwmc because it it matches that language of only providing um within the urban growth boundary area so um both of these actions would need to be approved by the Eugene and Springfield City councils and Lane County so for each of those actions and so we're looking to have a joint meeting in the fall so just some key points um talked about this as being an economic development project to to provide a number of well-paying jobs you know potentially green jobs

15:24 you've looked at different sort of circular economy options that could be developed there um and the tapping into the existing Wastewater system would be the most efficient and environmental rather than trying to run a lagoon or more septic systems um and that you already have a world-class Wastewater system here that has received national awards you know rather than trying to create a specific wastewater treatment there in Goshen that this would be the way to go um and as Matt said the landfill leachate already comes here so it wouldn't be adding any flow from that piece coming in and then flow from Goshen as properties properties developed wouldn't

16:09 wouldn't occur over a very long period of time you know probably over a 20-year you know Horizon so um the additional flow would be you know very incremental the county doesn't own or control any of the properties in Goshen so it would just be as Redevelopment opportunities come up come about the intent would be that there would be no cost to existing users in the system so Springfield Eugene residents wouldn't be paying more because of of the ocean coming in that it would pay its way and so we have quite a bit of work to do we're planning to engage mwmc starting the conversation on Friday actually um to talk about what a potential agreement would look like there have been some things proposed in that project development report but we really need to get to the nitty-gritty details

16:55 that before we come back to you in the fall um and then another one here just that this wouldn't open the door to sprawl to you know opening um even to Lane Community College that you know the line would be going right by that would need to be an additional action um to go through approval and the reason why we're not even proposing those right now is because Goshen servicing an unincorporated area um and servicing the landfill or outright allowable by Oregon administrative rule going beyond that to look at um potential you know Cresswell or Lynn Community College or any other um area like that would would take land use exceptions which is a lengthy process and we we wanted to see if if

17:40 this would be um of interest to the community before we looked at any other options I think that concludes oh exclusion yes you got some questions later so um putting that line in is going to cost money and I understand that Wayne County is going to be responsible for that building county is also Springfield in Eugene and it also pays costs of all Wayne County expenses so how are those how are the funds to be able to purchase that Capital project where are they going to come from what part are they going to come from and how are they going to affect the taxpayers in Lane County because we

18:26 all pay those great question um so a few different potential sources so we have identified for the engineering piece of it that would be able to kick off if there was a metro plan Amendment um through video Lottery funds for economic development um this would be a good for those and we've we've potentially earmarked some of those for for completing that work but then the construction dollars are yet to be identified this would allow us them to go after some of this federal funds some infrastructure money that we think this could tie into there's a specific chunk of money through the Corps of Engineers that the county can tap into of about four million dollars there and then the remainder would

19:12 probably need to be financed through the state has what's called The Clean Water State revolving fund so we would need to take out a loan and then develop developers would then pay um System benefit you know cost buy-in as they develop to pay their way through increased sdcs um for those not not to the users in the existing system but for for people that are signing on a development in Goshen would you would need to pay to connect in yeah and I get that so so any what you're saying is any new development will have to pay the full bill of whatever of whatever Gap exists of the financing further piece of that yes and so Matt on your end we we just say with this goes in and

19:59 that's going to of course make that ripe for crafts Laurel Lane Community College et cetera these other entities and even the industrial users in the area to tap into that same system which is fine but then that's going to directly affect mwmc and its processes and his potentially increase the cost of those processes and that's still on in the city and yet those costs will then be transferred to all would be transferred all the subscribers or customers of MD mwmc which is typical how would you separate those out in regards to collections any any other development Beyond this project would have to go through the same process and be it'd be a metroplex approval there need to be as Dan mentioned there's some some additional approvals before you even get

20:44 the metro plan approval approvals on the state and then again in the new season or governmental agreement would have to be redrafted and so all both of those actions would take uh Eugene Springfield and Wayne County approvals so it'd be a similar process and we'd look at the impacts see what the impacts would beat our system what the what the capacity is is available and how we want to do that so I don't think that we would and we'd want to be prudent when we did that there wouldn't be just the ability to connect so we definitely would have an opportunity to make sure it remain whole if we were to entertain even accepting that councilor Bradley

21:29 hello hello Dan it's good to kind of see you good to see you councilor so I have two questions one you share in this this um presentation the timeline for getting to the approval what the first question is what is the timeline for actually moving this to like fruition like how long do you think it's going to take and the the question that goes along with that is do you have any sort of estimated like impact on the infrastructure like are we gonna like while it's being built are is there going to be extra strain on the roads is there going to be you know traffic challenges just how is it going to affect sort of regionally the infrastructure if we move forward with it um great questions counselor so

22:14 um sorry I'm sorry I was thinking about the second thing and the first one was sorry the timeline like once we get through the approval process if we all yes let's do it how long is it going to take for the project sure so if we get through the metro plan and then the mwmc IGA we would need to so say we get to agreement on all the pieces all the financial pieces and and get to a green light we would then start the um engineering design that's probably going to take us a year and then all permitting on all that I would say best case scenario avoid all the funding lined up would be probably two years from now um two years from this fall

22:59 um and then you know another probably season of construction whenever that landed um so you know we're probably looking at you know probably three years before it was is finally in place um and then impact the system I said one thing just impact to the Wastewater system I think we need to probably get more analysis from mwmc but we were estimating over the full build out it would only be about three percent of the total capacity now and that would be you know probably 20 years down the line um but as far as other impacts to roads you know we can manage like any other um you know road kind of construction project the big thing would be um constructing a trench that goes along there so

23:45 um I would see that just kind of moving down Highway 99 um where you would have traffic stopped and you know going around construction equipment as we're on the side of the road there I wouldn't see it you know major significant impact on that so Dan when you think about the landfill itself right so would we could we potentially see the cost to extend the line to the landfill passed on to users through uh through a tipping fee and Grace there's a piece that we would you know charge out to the landfill um right now we have existing funds to be able to cover that but we have a lot of projects in the works for for the landfill that we'll probably talk about

24:31 you know with the transfer station with the material recovery facility so um potentially yes um so all all of all of the projects at the landfill are covered by um user fees so that's the only source of funding for our waste solid waste system so well I think that I think that I think that was where my concern was when when we say that you know users are not going to bear the cost of this right like that's not entirely accurate because we're right when when you raise your tipping fee then by our agreements we're going to turn around and pass it to pass it to our users right I always explain I was saying not to the users at the Wastewater system but but users are already paying for that Trucking cost that would be Offset you know yeah

25:17 that's not that's not necessarily like getting devotions an important part of our what our original economy is right so it's not necessarily a sort of fuel killer in my from my from my perspective is just trying to understand all the moving Parts the second question I really had was when you think about all the other um landfill projects right that you know are going on like what's the timeline when we start the conversation about uh you know the recycling facility at the landfill when we learn more about that because I'm sort of seeing these as two parts to kind of the same conversation and I really want to kind of walk into that you know from my perspective walking in that public hearing kind of understanding though the whole picture about where the county is going through that Corridor sure so the material recovery facility would love to have a

26:02 conversation a work session with you on that we are currently working the legislature to try to get 15 million dollars for that project um and if we don't get that I I don't see us being able to move that forward so we should know that in the next couple months so um keeping fingers crossed on that and and if we get that funding then I would like to come to you soon thereafter to start talking about whether we can move that forward we were also trying to find out if we could identify a property for that because we were trying to cite that at the landfill and it wasn't looking like it was going to work um and we are currently talking to a property owner that where we could potentially cite it so um so we're trying to get these pieces in place to see if it's even a feasible project so um I think once we know that in the next

26:47 couple months I think we can come back and have that conversation that would be great because I think it's a body overall I don't know where the where the City of Eugene is but I do know it's new material for us right and as soon as you're ready to come back and have a work session you know just get in contact with Nancy and she'll get you on the get you on the schedule because the opportunity to ask some of those broader questions would be really what would be really helpful um the other thing two things like I guess I really want to point out is to me this leads you know towards that path of what we want done in Glenwood around the transfer site which is ultimately we want to close that transfer site um so to me that this is an important context of it the other Peak part that you had brought on and this is like I think a question for you know our partners on on the uh on the County Commission is you know really you're identifying some economic development

27:32 funds right and really from my position and we really want to come back and talk to the County Commission to make sure that we're using all those Economic Development like we've got other Economic Development needs you know that we we would love to use some of those funds for so you may see some of those questions come up when we do that when we do the public hearing that's not I think this is a great project and you joke yeah I agree too and I was a little concerned and Sean brought it up into the competition for those Lottery funds is a little bit of a concern as far as really going to compete with what's the give and take of that um but I am also concerned with the those tipping fees or what you're currently charging our single hour here that's obviously going to negatively impact their costs or their bills so to

28:17 speak or to help pay for this project I assume is what you just said and so that's going to directly affect our rate payers here so again that project will affect us negatively indirectly but still negatively if we didn't do it it wouldn't happen so therefore if we do this it's going to negatively impact our citizens um but have you projected out how much the I mean I don't assume there's not going to be much ongoing cost after construction after completion except for maybe a pump station here and there right and so that's going to save you about 300 Grand a year and so is that going to be pushed back towards our controllers and a savings to them or you're going to pocket it

29:02 it would all be off offset so you know we calculate the rates we need you know we're not a profit you know business um as a public entity so um that would be offset from you know our total cost that we need to then um have covered by typical we also have Reserve ourselves we don't have reserves so we have we have reserves for but it's all for for that resource so for the next phase of the landfill we build up those reserves and then we draw those down but we don't we don't keep up you know growing Reserve other than for those future projects you know on the flip side there's going to be uh user fee revenues coming in from the development there and secs that would come into the mwc system uh that would be a stable source of revenue for

29:48 us it's just going to eat away at our capacity very slightly um but I think overall broadening our base is going to be in the best interest potentially as far as the revenues are concerned for our users region-wide so that would offset I mean there's going to be there's going to be the impacts that were noted um to Springfield and others through tipping fees and through um Dan mentioned in councilor you mentioned but on the other side there will be a corresponding offset see you you mentioned it might take three years before construction is done you're very optimistic and yes there's another best case scenario but yeah my question is we're spending X number of dollars right now to Halloween chain to the transfer site and that will go away and that that Holly is going to go on forever is going to get more expensive

30:33 but that's going to go away replace my Nest so my question like Joe is how much is this going to cost in relation to what's going to go away and hopefully it's better vision and I can bring you back those numbers of what is the cost specifically for the leachate piece and the payback overtime for the savings if you happen to do that as well as any other questions thoughts or concerns you would like to look into record um so my question is more about the citizens in Goshen I actually worked in Goshen over the fire for almost 10 years on B Street right next to the school and we had a septic system that failed and he had to deal with digging that up and doing that whole thing so uh it sounds like the people that are living there now would they be would they be allowed to connect and

31:18 then would they have to pay for the the lines to get down their streets to them because like it was quite a ways well I mean it was a block and a half for me on B Street to get to that is so is it going to be similar to like kind of what's happening with Glenwood where there's there's a main line down Franklin and the people on the sides kind of would happen either that's what okay the laterals would have to be developed so they um and so that whole 150 foot rule or whatever I don't know what your rule is with connections yeah um yeah yeah so if somebody's septic failed then would they then be I know George is really tough on them he makes them so they would be able to connect even though they're not Annex even though they're outside the ugb correct okay yes

32:03 and then they would start paying the fees connection cost yeah which we would need to wow that could be enough whereas now they would be allowed to repair or replace their septic but in the future because of this they would have to actually pay those costs laterals are built um you know I think that would be dependent on on the community you know we're our goal is to build those laterals out into the industrial area so I'm not sure when those would happen out into the residential area that's a cash 22 too I mean it's a perhaps like they can replace it if they have room which they may very well um they may not and they may have to put in a like I had to put in a 25 000 system um and I was fortunate that we are able to do that in some instances they may not be able to put anything in and I'm not sure what happens there but yeah

32:49 um when your suffix fails just in general it's just yes I know right and I just wondered what the cost to that person is going to be if they're right there I mean you're only Bill you're only talking about the main the main trunk line you're not talking about providing laterals the full build out would be the laterals but that was not into the the neighborhood the ABCD streets on that uh what is it what would they call that because like west or east kind of like the southeast side our main goal is to get that trunk behind us okay and and then to be able to service off that as as developing a career okay yeah yeah I just was trying to figure out what happened in the meantime so yeah and then the line would be size accordingly for some growth or you know you don't want to make it just specific to the current project it will

33:35 be upsized um so future developments or what have you may potentially have that capacity already to connect so may have may have depends on what depends on what the development is so then we have had other people that are interested um yeah well so the design the design will be sized to to service the whole and the so the the trunk lines currently in the engineering report size to accommodate all the flow within that unincorporated community of the ocean right including the residential area now if um Eugene Springfield Lane County want to explore um you know bringing in Creswell then we would need to change the size of that those trunk lines differently because that's they're not nice for that right so I would like to if if this moves

34:20 forward in the fall follow up on the heels of that to see is this of interest in the community so let's just be completed and nobody's talking about going acrossful right now absolutely not that what that is a part of the conversation we haven't even talked to the government to press well here so you know somebody should probably let them know if that's coming they have they have voiced interest and and you may be aware of that in the communities I just want to make sure you're aware that there is interest there I would like to follow it up to see if if there's interest in the community of supporting that um and that also goes for Lane Community College Oak Hill um the County's Armitage Park but those are separate projects that we're not talking about right right and that's why that's why why yeah I want to make sure we're clear about the phase we're

35:05 talking about right now so not that it requires you to be a wizard but the old saying if it's predictable is preventable and if you think that Creswell and these other entities are not going to want to do it and you build with that mindset then I think we're going to be sorely mistaken or sort of regret not considering something that's predictable and I predict that it's not going to end in a short Mountain just saying there's definitely interest there it's whether there's interest with Eugene Springfield right now I mean it's really I sell it too I mean if you're you're coming across and saying okay this is just for short mom don't even think about these other entities and we have to think about those other entities and we have to think about the potential

35:51 and for us to to step into this puddle probably I don't know how deep it is so and I'm not saying it's wrong I mean I I like it I mean I think it's smart that we are taking trucks off the road I don't care about the carbon thing I'm talking about the fuel and where the production costs the county but yeah we really need to be we would have our eyes open man I understand counselor but the reason why we're bifurcating those one is timing and then two is those are two different decisions and wants you to be able to make decisions on so right so when we get to the Joint hearing the only decision that we're going to be asked for is to amend the metro plan to say hey look can we who may extend Sewer Service outside the you know outside the YouTube right yeah we're not bringing it up as just a oh

36:38 you know open entirely we're bringing it to specifically service Goshen and short Mountain so okay and I think that's the clear part like physical right we're talking about multiple different scenarios here that are all important but may not be the conversation we're quite to that point yet okay even but we've talked with Crystal and they're not anywhere near making they don't know where they need where they want to go ahead they're still in like very very infancy of planning so but we will want to have that question answered before we start under construction know the size of the piping to put in there okay I mean yeah yeah yeah if you're looking about eight inch pipe now I'm thinking what we're going to need a 24 inch later right that's exactly exactly yeah

37:25 yeah okay um other questions all right I think this was really helpful because um you know it's a got a couple living parts to it so we appreciate you guys coming over here thank you thank you

38:36 okay well thanks for the PowerPoint I'm gonna just test this to make sure it works yep so I'm here to talk to you about one of your favorite topics as I heard in the February works out in the fees right so um we'll we'll just jump into it and see how it goes um we're specifically talking to you about just the planning fees and I want to try and keep some sideboards around that tonight because I know that there was a work session in February and it was talking about CPI increases to the entire Master Fee schedule there's 10 different sections within the master fee schedule planning is Section Eight so it's just one of those 10 sections there's also sections on Engineering Systems development charges the building fees so and actually I'm jumping ahead on my

39:21 slides um but we are just talking about planning these tonight the last time we did a planning feed study was 2010 that was hired out and done by a consultant um as you know or some of you know and I I don't know I could introduce myself or a few new counselors but um I'm Mark Rust I'm the planning manager for the current planning department so good to see any counselors [Music] um we did a major development code update last year that was adopted in June and effective July 1st of last year and that impacted a quite a number of different application process types that effectively without changing any fees reduce the fees significantly for some

40:07 projects and I I have just a couple quick examples on that if you don't mind I could just touch on really quick um one is just last week we issued a decision for the first type of new application at type one site plan or 128 unit apartment complex building on Marco Road last year at this time if they had gone through the process that was in place at that time prior to the code update it would have been about a fourteen thousand dollar application fee to the city and taken about 45 to 60 days the new process under the new code again without changing any fees just the process it was a seventeen hundred dollar application fee and took us 30

40:53 days so at least a couple weeks savings and a significant fee reduction for that type of application to approve those 128 units so anyway just as an example of what the code update has now done for us um so Portland State has been contracted with by us just within the last couple of months at the beginning of the year to perform this this current fee study um there's three primary objectives to this V study and they're outlined here and in the memo to you tonight but primarily we're trying to determine the average cost of the service for reviewing land use applications in the city we're assessing the cost recovery on comparing the amount of time and cost it

41:39 takes us to process those compared to the fees we take in for those and then also comparing RVs to every other comparable cities and that's going to be one of my primary questions for you tonight as you've seen in the packet is we're coming to you early as an introduction to the fact that we're doing this study and are you comfortable with the three proposed cities that we're trying to analyze before we get too far down the road and so if there's additional cities or different cities we could have that conversation and I'm definitely open to other input tonight too this is kind of the feet of the slide I was jumping forward to of what we're not talking about in terms of what we're not studying as part of the planning fee study I mentioned the systems development charges the building fees

42:25 engineering costs a lot of those fees and costs are part of a development approval process but not specifically just the planning review piece so under state law and I talked about this in the memo a bit for many of our fees but not all of them it's under State Lodge what's defined as a permit and that kind of connotates a certain type of land use application there's two ways we can collect fees under state law and that is either the average cost of service or the actual cost of service and so the one jurisdiction I know about in the state that uses actual cost of service is Deschutes County over in Central Oregon

43:10 for many of their application types they require a deposit up front and then they keep track of how much time they spend on those applications and then they send you a basically a bill at the end or a refund potentially it's usually a bill having experience working over there they and and in that Dynamic um if a neighbor say it poses an application and it takes longer the applicant's paying for that increased time that it takes to process those under the average application we kind of try and balance it out and some we gain a little bit more lose a little bit more in theory that it averages out and then with the code update process that we went through last year as well for a lot of the new middle housing land use rules

43:56 there was specific language built into the state statutes about middle housing that requires us to revisit those fees a year after they were implemented to the the statue says something to the effect of take your guests best of what you think it will cost for the first year and then after the first year analyze it in more detail and determine what the average or actual cost of service is for those new types of applications as we had never done them before in our case we still actually haven't done a number of the new types of middle housing Manus applications so we have no data to even base it on still so it's something we'll have to continue to look at every year the more data points we get from those new types of applications

44:41 we can kind of fine-tune those fees this is hard to see on the screen it's in your packet as well but this is just a quick very basic flow chart of the different four different types of land use processes that we have the vast majority of types we have are type 2 which is the second kind of column over from the left there's type one which is the easiest then type 2 type 3 is a type of application that would go to our Planning Commission for them to approve like a discretionary use permit and then type 4 is like a legislative change like the coda date itself was a Type 4 legislative update process the city council makes the decision on so as the

45:27 example I shared earlier about that 128 unit apartment complex it used to be a type 2 process it requires notice to all the surrounding property owners in a comment period and then the potential for an appeal process at the end we move that from a type 2 process to a type 1 process based on state law which requires us to have what they call a clear and objective approval process for all housing and so that kicks it into the type 1 process and it's a much more streamlined time frame wise and the lower feed it represents that this is kind of just a brief chart again probably a little hard to see on the screen but um kind of outlines the

46:12 time frames and the incision bodies and process involved with those four different land use application times I'm not going to go into any detail unless there's any questions um so the difficult part that Portland State University is really trying to hone in on with the comparison to other cities is really trying to facilitate an Apples to Apples comparison it can be different different cities structure their fees in different ways and even their processes can be different to have it not necessarily be across the board and equal um I think I get to it here in just another slide or two I'll share the three cities I'm not trying to hold it as a secret but we do touch on it but

46:57 the last thing I want to mention before we get to the three cities is um use of technology to track accurately the amount of time we do actually spend on processing the different types of applications so we currently really don't have a great way of doing that now we never really have unfortunately the software we use even just for tracking our planning applications themselves is software that was built by the state for building permits and so planning was kind of an afterthought and they thought oh well we'll use it for planning as well and um the state regulates even how the building permit fees and those types of things they don't regulate finding fees other than the state law I mentioned

47:42 earlier but um we are working on and looking at increasing our ability through some use of software and be able to track the actual time and how much for each application itself is spent on processing those applications to give us better data to actually calculate the average cost of processing say a different cycling applications or a subdivision application one site plan might be you know easy for a copy card and another site plan might be for a new Walmart or something those are two drastically different site plans and our fees do account for that based on the amount of square footage they're proposing to build but um like the base fee or the established

48:27 base fee for those site plans can be calculated based on average time I um in a previous part of my career I worked for a law firm as a planner and we charge for every 10 minutes of time we spent for a clients application we had little buttons on our screen you'd press it start and stop at timer so you're billing every 10 minutes of your time and not that we want to necessarily get to that point but in terms of tracking how much time we spend is like really being able to keep track and identifying what it does take so the three comparable cities that is proposed by PSU based on their research and studies is Eugene as the first one because we're in the same metro area basically same region they're not necessarily

49:15 comparable in size necessarily but obviously they're right across the freeway so developers that work in both jurisdictions have similar expectations so looking at that the other two are basically the cities that are one step above us and one step or actually two steps below us in terms of population size um that would be Medford and Albany PSU did propose to skip Corvallis they would be the one one step below us in population size however they think their fee structure is organized significantly different enough from ours but it doesn't make sense to try and shoot horn there comparison into ours

50:00 so you can see from these numbers those are kind of the three they're proposing that's the scope we proposed with them we could study more potentially or or different but that's really what we're bringing to you tonight is asking you one about those three cities and then also just in general other feedback ideas for questions um can you explain a little bit how Corvallis is so different because I felt like Medford was just because of the distance and and that market is so different I felt like that was kind of a odd Choice um so just kind of wondering why Corvallis wasn't and I could talk to PSU more about that I actually have a check-in meeting with them on Wednesday this week Eugene and Albany completely

50:46 made sense to me but Medford was just a little okay yeah I'll go ahead and finish Market oh that's that's fine I'll check into that all right Steve same questions but why is different is there something better or worse that we can learn from and so that would be my question and not that this is necessarily directly applicable but as an example Corvallis used to for the annexations which I think is one of our fees that we'll want to talk about tonight um oh yeah the Corvallis used to only allow boater annexations meaning any property that wanted to Annex they sent it to a public boat and it would have to be approved by vote

51:32 um they they actually had to move away from that because one of our local Landis attorneys appealed to manaf and Luba ruled on it finally that they couldn't really do that but it was a dynamic in Corvallis that was slightly different than a lot of other jurisdictions around the state so it's things like that that are built into processes that can affect um how the fee structure but I'll definitely look into it we're gonna go to Victoria here in a second but did we lose councilman we didn't I can see her on my screen she just turned her finger off for a second Victoria anyone else have anything because I'm gonna I've got a lot of stuff to talk about all right I've got some stuff but why don't you dive in here um okay so I do comparables just on my own since February and I used um Eugene

52:19 Salem Grants Pass in Gresham and the reason why I used those was because I wanted to get different sizes of communities because I do believe that they may have different processes and I wanted to see that so I'll throw that out there um I'm just going to can I just do my notes sure okay um so as a lot of people are aware that the fee structure and land use as well as um we're not talking about privately engineered projects that's also been on my radar but I know that that's not something that we're discussing right now I'll leave that for another day um but I understand the stats working within rates and fees that were established by a council in previous times um your memo kind of seemed to imply that the only reason we're even having this discussion is because of the updates to the Springfield development code and I don't um I'm not sure that this conversation would actually be happening as in depth

53:06 as I'm hoping that it does because there's been such an outcry from development in our community that they just are finding it so difficult to to build in our city and I've been hearing that for a long time and working for the City of Eugene I talked to a lot of developers I talked to somebody today and they were like really it's more expensive in Springfield than Eugene and I'm like because the perception is that it wouldn't be but it is um so you stay in MMO that you're that most jurisdictions in the state use the average cost of service model um I've also been told that sprinkle tends to be heavy on the front end and you mentioned that um but that it balances out once the project is done um and I'm trying to understand that because I'm looking at a partition and I'm trying to figure out how a partition has anything on the back end that would be significant

53:52 um and we'll talk about what I the numbers that they came up with um but I talked to a lot of people that won't even take jobs small jobs like partitions and small subdivisions in our community because it's just so heavy on the fees um that it's not it's cost prohibitive and so unfortunately what happens is our citizens then have to go to these big engineering firms and pay a lot more money for very small jobs I have a piece of land um that's because we have some pretty large Lots in Springfield and they're ripe for partitions and doing a couple actually you know one house prints into three right that's pretty cool um but they're just holding back on that because of the costs that are involved in that um and I like the average cost method but it seems like our cost of service is three to ten times the average cost of

54:37 most jurisdictions that I looked at um here's some examples um on a two or three parcel partition Eugene is about 27.99 Salem is 1900. Grants Pass is 2100 and gresham's about 23. so the average is about 23.21 Springfield is 6 854 for the same thing that's a forty five hundred dollar difference between four other services now if they're inside the city limits but out in the ugb Eugene charges sixty two hundred dollars and we charge twelve thousand three hundred and seventy five dollars that is a double that's sixty two hundred dollars more than what they're charging in Eugene so those are the things that I can't wrap my head around and then we go to annexations and that's the one that I was hoping

55:23 that we would talk about because I want to talk about this comprehensive planning fee that is so heavy on these um a five to six acre annexation in Eugene is fifty one hundred and fifty five dollars that same annexation in Springfield is eighteen thousand four hundred and eleven dollars so I just want to make sure that we're understanding that that's the reason why I have concerns because we're not talking about a thousand bucks we're talking about thousands of dollars and I understand that there's other costs involved but of that eighteen thousand forty seven hundred dollars of that is dim meetings notices so the cost of almost the entire cost of an annexation in Eugene is just in what we're charging for meetings and notices and stuff so if that makes me question I

56:09 can only imagine what that's happening to people outside of the actual development World um and the comprehensive planning fee as you explained to me the other day and I kind of and please correct me if I'm wrong is about bringing infrastructure into those areas so that when people Annex they actually have infrastructure to connect to is that correct um it's about doing the comprehensive planning work associated with planning for ugb area so it's not even putting in the pipes it's just the planning that's right okay um and it's twenty four hundred and forty four dollars per acre that's where that so if if you have a 30 acre lot you're looking at seventy eighty thousand dollars just in that fee and then the developer has to then do the actual

56:54 um private engineer project to bring that in so I hope other people can see that that's why I'm questioning this so much um I would like to see that dim fee especially on a type 2 application I would like to see that somehow simplified and reduce or eliminate the cost of that those dim meetings are not just for the applicant those benefit us as a city because we're able to get those people around the table it doesn't have to be so like we're gonna write all this stuff down and we're going to put it in the record it can be a really simple meeting but when someone comes to me and says I was going to do you know I'm looking at doing a small subdivision and you know four Lots five Lots but before I can even do that they won't even tell me the costs associated with it at the counter until I go in and have

57:40 this meeting and I have to spend this money to go in there to find this out I I don't understand that seems like a barrier especially when we're in a time that that we need to be looking at that and I feel like the comprehensive planning fee I want to know like a comparison how much have we collected since 2004 in comprehensive planning fees from people that are annexing compared to what are we spending what have we actually spent and developed in that and see a comparison of that until we do that I feel like we should suspend that comprehensive planning fee starting July 1 and we talked about that until such time that we can actually get records and know what we're charging people so those are the two things that are really important to me to to maybe talk about tonight is the dim the Dem meetings figuring out a way to

58:25 make that more cost effective because of the benefit it has to both the the potential developer in us and then that comprehensive fee somehow suspending that and I think you guys have said that June 30th or July 1 because of the fiscal year might be the best way to do that because then that would give you time to gather the information and come back to us and then we could talk about whether that's actually appropriate so um I actually thought that it was the development of the of the Wastewater and storm water so I'm I'm even more shocked at the female so just to clarify what was the year you just mentioned about um comprehensive planning fee well it sounds like it's been going on since at least 2004. right yeah we don't we can't even find beyond that like when it was actually but that's 19 years so that's a

59:10 lot of fees to be collecting depending on how much we've had annexed I mean you would know hopefully we would know that um and the other thing when you're talking about time um it's there are ways to do that using an access database using a I mean it doesn't have to be Excel but I mean even an access database where somebody has to has to track it and log into the job and they know that they have X amount of days to get it done and if they don't get to that time it starts turning different colors and they know and so then you can kind of see see how people are doing um you know it's not the same but when we had the motorcycle dealership we had our jobs were flat rate so if it's a tire in two hours if it's a transmission it's six hours and if the mechanic can get it done in an hour then we're making money but if they're doing it in four hours for Something That We're charging two then we know that it's either that

59:56 person that mechanic isn't doing it as efficiently as they can or us as a you know we aren't or maybe we're not charging correctly right so um I would just like to talk about those two things and um yeah I'll shut up yeah um I I would just um again a long story train of thought but I was agreeing with Victoria when you were talking about the dim um meetings about you know for me hearing from Builders and developers when they come in just with a project just wanting to be able to get kind of past that portion and talk and is this feasible and really wanting to have that feeling of you know Springfield wants to work they want they want your business we want to work with you we want yes we want to get to the next step and not

1:00:42 just all those fees right up front and not it's not a very welcoming I think it's our business sure great thank you so a couple of thoughts here right um one of them I think from the final Council side like we've all run the developers right we all run into people and challenges and um they bring up real real cost pieces and I think it's a good time to sort of level back and sort of talk about like it's really easy for us to say you know to just be compassionate and empathetic but we really need to pull that information back and take them back um to the staff if they've got real questions about how to how to get them addressed right so that's one thing that I think we got to help with is you know

1:01:28 it's not enough anymore to say hey we met a developer it's you know more important that you know we try to work them to a place where we can get them connected back with the staff if that's Neil if that's Nancy if that's Ali like we can work we can work through that what that means because if we're going to be open for business right we got to do the leg work on our end to make sure that people that are going hey I don't want to develop here right marketing back in back into the room and discussing it um the the second piece is I'm open to the comprehensive planning uh fee uh waiver right like I think if you guys aren't sure like you know like do a little bit more research um you know if that if that's moving back to Eugene OR Eugene's level if that's move it back you know you know wave it while this is going on but if you're not sure that if we've recouped

1:02:13 the majority of the cost here right to me it you know then let's not collect it again until we get our arms around us um the third thing that I heard that I think is really important Mark you had one piece really good piece of data from this I would encourage you to find other places because when I listen to the conversation is that we're really been on a journey here which is redoing our development code and everybody including our experience and our staff's experience has been the last 10 the last 10 years but if we've redone this in a way that is naturally driving down these bring us more information than just you know like the story you told the screen but I'll program for more information about is the work we did on the development code drive me down an experience that people are actually seeing and what their total

1:02:59 costs are does that make sense yeah and I have another example tonight I can show it to you but I know we're limited on time so yeah I would yeah yeah because I ultimately here's my concern when I read this study the study information is that we've sort of tried try to compare apples to apples it's this fee to that fee right and in reality depending on what kind of building products you're bringing to Market could be it you know smart you know driving how much you have annoying costs and that's the thing that the buildings and developments ultimately pays right so I'm really concerned about what what's the action that's available right and so like I'm hoping when this is done and we see the information even though sdcs are not in the mix right even though um building permits are not and the mixes for maybe you guys to

1:03:44 bring us a couple of examples that are not like hey you know random Fee number 57 is this but instead take that same 107 and go okay no we said it should be 1700 you know seventeen thousand dollars to get the building but all in you know the market recommendations you know whatever whatever the amount is going to be does that make sense like because I I think we're you've we've kind of driven out of scope sdcs and building permits which are you know also big drivers of things um the only other thing that I um the dim thing's an interesting question to me I'd love to hear you guys to take that one back and kind of kind of talk about it I know sometimes there's a structure to it and there's a rationale from it I'm curious to learn more right

1:04:30 like if if the goal is to get people in the in the door is a different way to do it I think you know we'll uh Victorian Beth had really good ideas with that um last thing was the time tracking piece I see this come up a lot I've done a couple of time tracking in my in my career um here's my concern is you don't have like is you're you don't have necessarily a ton of planners that are out there right and you don't we don't necessarily have a ton of applications that are out there over the mix right so the question I had when I saw the timing um question was okay is the right answer to invest more in an ability to to understand and move work through your

1:05:15 workflow in a more efficient way or right is the cost that's associated with tracking time across I don't know maybe the what there's 10 people involved there's five including me yeah or six right so that the amount of time that would go into in infrastructure going into tracking time across you know five to six people right is that really going to be you know bias enough insight to really help us understand and I don't know the answer because I'm not a planner but that's when I'm listening to the conversation that's the thing that's really really dropping out to me and then lastly before I go to Corey um our goal here right like we're making two critical adjustments right one of them is in 2010 we did this work again

1:06:00 right which was you know about you know uh this the goal is to be open for business right so at the end of this really I would I want to see us come back and do this every three to five years and I don't know what the right answer is I'm still sort of curious to that but five years seems like it would be on the long side but con we make year-to-year adjustments and to have a point that we put a marker that we put on the ground out there that says okay business Community we're going to come back and we're going to you know sort of re-benchmark ourselves and make sure that we're not you know that we're not upside down or there's not something wrong would be important Corey thank you and I don't want to get down into the weeds of all of the pieces I

1:06:46 really appreciate you you know reminding us that we want to connect people with staff we're the ones who are doing that work um one of the things that I just think about is we talk about how much this costs on the on the front end but not necessarily like what is the money going to because if we just immediately started saying well let's cut this and let's cut this I'm not interested in having like this you know building subsidized by the general fund or by taxpayers I'm very much interested in these fees making sure that people you know being reasonable and be affordable and being all of that and paying for what we need them to pay for so that we can do the work that we need to do so that's just one of the things that I just was like a a little bit of a like

1:07:31 red flags like I don't want to just cut fees and say how are we going to pay for the people and the things that we need to do the stuff because that's what the fees are there for are you done Corey Victoria thank you and yeah um counselor Raleigh and I talked about this in the general fund and I do understand that I think that fees and permits and that type of thing should be for the costs associated for that work to be done um but we also need to look long-term and and larger that that isn't we're talking we we just talked last week about basically subsidizing tax dollars to get development in here but then these people that are wanting to develop

1:08:16 their land and put two more houses on their property those are two houses that become taxpayers that are now paying their four to six thousand dollars a year and taxes um to that general fund so I think it kind of balances each other out um the one thing I will mention is when you're talking about the fees and the reduction in fees with the new development code that's as far the way I understand it that that's around the clear and objective and that isn't necessarily what we use when it comes to partitions and subdivisions and annexations and zone changes correct that that's not clear and objective so I don't know that that being able to reduce costs based on that I don't I mean I would love it if it was clear and objective I think everybody would but I don't know that it's possible with you know with code yeah so

1:09:02 we and if we have a few minutes I know we're already over but we don't have an item behind this so it's clearer people got some opinions about this I'm happy to chat a little bit about some just in reaction to some of the questions I think so there is another example so for commercial development as it um is not required by state law to have clear and objective standards we have a similar we reduce the process we have a MDS minimum development standards process which is kind of a mini site plan review we're using right now with um Bigfoot beverage is the relocating a portion of their um operations on the Laura Street and so instead of what would previously go through a full-blown site plan review and I have the members um here but say it would have cost roughly in that 13 to

1:09:49 14 000 range it's now around 1300 again so we're doing that also for commercial development you're right about partitions and subdivisions that's pretty prescribed in state law the one other thing I want to mention I think it's a good conversation piece about annexations and we've we've talked to our city attorney's office about this and it'd be a process to adjust it in our development code it's it's one of the sections in the development code that we did not update with the big code update last year but is looking at for certain types of annexations we can have like a truncated process they under state law certain annexations don't have to have a public Hearing in front of the city council like we do for everyone now so in terms of your comment about lots

1:10:35 of the annexation fees are from meetings and notice and all this stuff for a certain portion of those annexations we can reduce a lot of that and say it's just if the property owner wants to Annex and it's not going to impact other properties we can streamline it reduce a lot of those fees eliminate the public hearing and just get it adopted yeah one I don't want it to sound like I'm thinking that you're people that you and your people need to track every minute of your time I think that that's that's inefficient and it's not right I mean I I work in that process so I do part of the public works you know aspect of a of a partition or what have you and planning is doing there or we just simply have a timeline you know it comes to me and I have X amount of time that I have to get a complete this review in and I'm not sure how you guys do that but then there's another time and we

1:11:20 don't try to take it to the very end of that time we tried you know to get that through so there is no like tracking the time there's a set fee for that and so that's what I'm hoping that we get to I'm not trying to get your people on a Time clock or something like that I mean I just want to make sure that that's clear so so for ease of understand at least from for me is that and I see a list of 20 30 40 60 Pages longer different piece and things wouldn't it be simpler at least it'd be simple for me if you said okay this is our average house this is how much it costs to build Before You Stick a grant a shovel on the ground this is you know 26 Grand where does that money go to and then have that broken down and saying okay

1:12:06 this is this is what's mandatorily taken based on some ruler law and then where do those restful speeds go and then and then start looking at those individually as opposed to coming at us with okay these are just planning fees and then six months from now we'll hear something well this is just building fees and then six months later those are fire piece and this I mean as as humans in order for us to put those together would be miraculous and so if the if we're Approach at least for me being approached we're seeing a package form say this is this is not much of Carlsberg Billy Bob would come in and build a home and this is how much we're charging total and what are those where's those monies go and I know

1:12:51 obviously has got stcp and Son's got STC all of them got their hands in the kitty but of that 26 Grand we know a cost how much does how much do we have control over and then start breaking that down because if we don't have control of the other ones it doesn't matter and so but I actually broke it down for you yeah so we can look at that and but it seems seems to me but then it's like okay so of those it's not part of this conversation um of that 26 000. yeah part of the part of it that's part of this conversation is 268 dollars see this looks like you've sitting there means it's one percent and to me it's like that's great we have someone here we have to ask

1:13:36 these questions and then has everything to do with the big cross and it's like you don't you're probably your fingers in that or your your fingerprint on that is so small that I'm really interested into who's got their Glovers on so Mark what's the 26 000 what's the thing you're kind of ground us on then we can move back to Joe here we're talking about just building a house it's building permit fees basically so planning is creating that lot to build the house on right go through a partition or a subdivision process right um that creates the pro the property then you come in for a building permit to build the house on that piece of property that's the building permit phase um it including sdc's all the fees somebody comes to pay for a typical

1:14:21 three bedroom two bath 200 square foot house is 26 000. um 81 of that is sdcs that includes sanitary sewer stormwater transportation lamoline and a small fire SDC and the lamoline is the largest isn't it it's um well if you no it's not actually rhyme leads 5100 there's two sanitary sewers there's the regional mwc and then the local one those total nine thousand right um building permit fees out of that total 26 000 is 16 is 4 100 this is your actual building permit fee right so that's so I just wanna I think we all want to do good we want to see development we want to see developers be able to go in and have staff which which

1:15:06 has been so nice because the tone which I'm getting in the last few years is completely different than it was 10 years ago in regards to staff telling people this is why you can't do it staff now it seems at least my impression is a feeling is establishing okay you got some challenges here but let's figure out how to get around those how to do it legally but let's let's make it work and that that's huge and developers are sand and art and I talked to a bunch of them also and they are saying that in that sense there's a big change but but it seems like for us to have an effective conversation of looking at that we got to look at the 26 000 Bill not the 283 I mean part of it but you know the Dem meetings make percent you know I know about all those different

1:15:51 meetings all the different steps and all those add up so it seems like there's a an approach maybe an organizational approach as to looking at it holistically and saying okay how can how can the bottom line go from 26 to 19 or you know whatever so you know how can where can some significant impact or significant changes be made in which areas that will drive that total number down as as opposed to Springfield continually taking the hit when we only represent a portion of those so it's a partnership thing and everybody again's got their hand in the pot but but they're not here at the table and so how could we impact in a positive way without getting him in the table and say

1:16:37 let's let's all but everybody be part of this conversation because end result is that we want more moves in the city that's the problem and if we can't be we're not the solution where it's it's everybody's the solution and that's what I would love to see yeah so let's do a couple more things here one of them is I hear kind of a longing for you know a better set of facts right so if maybe you could clean up that example of that single you know home in a way that would be more digestible for us right because I'm sure it's got a ton of details on there so we kind of get our heads around hey look you know if we were stopped in the street and they said Sean how much does it cost to develop a home in Springfield you know we had some basic level effects I think that's probably that's probably um pretty important the other piece is I

1:17:24 want to I want to keep going back and make sure we take look up at the Horizon by that I mean but make sure that we're talking about all the all the jurisdictions you know that that are involved and it's not that like Joe's right we don't control all of it but it's going to be a best to talk to our colleagues to continue to bring them to the table and if we put those facts out there it doesn't change the reality that developers feel which is they pay all of it and then I think the third and I think the third thing that's really important is when we meet as team Springfield and who knows when that's going to be if that's summer or mid-october instead of two like our topic that we should that we want to talk about is more broadly fees right because I know the Lama Lanes starting to talk about this I would hope that the utility board's starting to talk about

1:18:10 it but you know exactly but like that would be our opportunity where we got all the jurisdictions around the around the table at the same time where we get to set the agenda and we can and and and we can bring that up and is that part of the packet it's not I put it together in like a day as a hurry up at some point I would love to have to email that out to the entire counselor I grew up and I would like to copy of it yeah District please distribute that and if you've got another you know two or three you know hey look here's what an apartment complex costs are I'm not trying to make work but if you've got something sitting off the shelf do that do me a favor grab the numbers one more time because we all do this the minute you hit send on it we're going to start repeating it

1:18:56 in public um yeah we can't reply literally just pulled this from one of the recent building permits that we issued so but I think something like that would help solve a lot and Mark pardon me good just to be clear I don't do the building permit stuff I mean Jen can authorize us to send out Bill increment numbers it's we have a building official that does the bill improvements so Jeff's really in charge of everything yeah but Jeff if you could if that's possible um but the apartment size um Victoria alluded to it with a short comments a little bit ago for example however many units and then lamelena's got a per unit fee that's that's that's I think it's fifty six hundred dollars

1:19:42 yeah for 26 units I shouldn't say that I'm not gonna right so you don't have to solve what we're not in charge of solarwinds problem I'm not okay no I'm not you're missing a point okay go ahead and what I'm saying is if someone we know we need to have buildings constructing the city and we know that that your Governor wants to and her her crew want to increase I want to increase our infill and and population right and so we know that that doesn't that's not helping us but we also know that that a person to go to build what we're training we've got to build in film we get higher concentration and you have to hit with these kind of costs it's like hey you got to do it but we know you can't

1:20:28 because you can't it doesn't hit the performance so it's it's it's information like okay what's a 10 unit place would cost I mean we know there's 26 grand for a three bedroom two bath for your house what is a 10 unit or 10 apartment approximate cost and we know we can't notice I'm not even coming close to trying to nail you down to the specifics but in general so we have an idea of saying okay we understand what you're asking developers but do know that of that a good you know that huge number you're looking at that Springfield is only this part of it and it's you know it's it's a lot of misdirected anger and I think that if that anger or frustration by these developers can be directed to the right

1:21:13 sources then that's the kind of pressure those other sources can start to feel instead of the City of Springfield being a Brunt that's what's huge okay this is a lot of good content Victoria it's really quick I think that that explains a lot about why we don't see apartment buildings going up very often in Springfield as well I mean when it's 5 500 per unit just for one sec fee I would like to see a kind of a and I honestly I don't know because I don't deal with the building site either so I don't know a lot about secs but I'd like to see Eugene's Parks SDC compared to ameline and all of those different fees I know that they're a lot and I know that we raise our separated I don't think they're separated yeah text District sdcs

1:22:04 by aging controls those I can ask um Eugene if they have like what their park and SDC rate is right so they just increased it last year I know that I just didn't know by how much I'm just curious kind of what the comparison would be okay we've shot you guys a ton of questions and I'm going to give you some content like some discretion to sort of go through and group some of them right and sort of you know and just answer them in a way that makes some sort of uh reasonable sense and go ahead so I just want to make sure we do have a lot we can start pulling this together but we need to make sure we answer the questions that we brought tonight yes and then we'll we'll make sure that we bring back this other information we just want to make sure we don't leave with us three cities defined by me so I'm hurting for

1:22:49 balance why and I can get that information from the consultant and just a quick recap is our next step we are planning to come back in June to present a draft of the report from PSU in the meantime I can communicate through CMO to the council about what the response is about why not Corvallis and what is it about Medford that makes more sense I've heard that Albany is a good one because there's just a lot of development going on in Albany right now and I'd like to know why how we can tap into that and then I would like to see um I wouldn't mind is it is it because of costs that we're kind of keeping it down to three right okay correct I don't want to put excess costs on you I just feel like the more variety we have the better but that's fine okay you guys good or do you want to come back to any

1:23:34 particular question all right I'm good thank you for the input hey thank you so much for your time for doing this work really appreciate it all right one other quick thing before I let everybody let everybody goes retreat we confirm that they aren't we are going to put the recipe but I'm sorry I don't know we would I'll have to sit down with Christina because it's getting the code and the way it's spelled out in the development mode I don't know that we can just blanketly put a fee on pause and that's why I was recommending July 1st or the master fees

1:24:19 schedule because we can make that change that's what I'm talking about yeah I don't think we can just like write it this minute and today and just say let's no that's why I said July 1. right okay so yeah just figure out how like okay we can bring that back as an option I just wanted to get clear on that we can't make a decision like that tonight here but we can we have a list of everything that has come up so we'll put that on paper make sure we understand okay there's several buckets that we need to yeah yes and it's going to take all of our partners and I would just encourage everybody not to right like we need to talk continue to talk to people like the Lama Lane inside and stuff like that you know thank you I thought there was another meeting after I'm just like you know

1:25:06 would you want to have another meeting afterwards we can all right so Council Retreat this is breaking news for you too we were originally the the last States we had ended up with was May 31st and uh June about 13th it sent the Consultants not available I don't this is comical at this point um so here's what I think we're going to do AJ's gonna send out some dates for September um and if you guys can get back to us as soon as possible and the reality is we're gonna have to right September's going to get so busy we're going to have to make it you know important and a priority to to be able to get it done otherwise we're not going to have the discussion on around what our priorities

1:25:51 going into the next year so what I'm asking for you is look at the dates that AJ sends out make them a priority so when we choose it we're gonna we're gonna sort of State we're gonna sort of stick to it the other thing that I've asked Nancy to look at is really to just write us a memo and frame up that kind of a theme the couple of things that are going to take up a little bit more time coming up into the uh into the fall give us a little bit more context about what's going to take a majority of our work um and then if people have not gonna ask questions they can they can put at that point if we don't make the September Day work Joe and I are going and then we're going to choose the priorities on our own why don't we choose another consultant uh not enough time between the dates that will work in today

1:26:41 you're gonna do it yeah yeah so let's check the September dates and see if anything pops if not what you know then we're going to just have to make some decisions about but I want to make sure that we're all kind of saying like this is important for us to get done because this is the way we inform the long-term work all right we are done we are in terms I'll run Russia toothpick