Springfield City Council — June 12, 2023

0:04 I'm going to call the city council work session to order a roll call Mayor Ben Gordon here councilor Weber here councilor Moe here councilor rodley here councilor Blackwell here counselor Doyle yeah counselor Pictionary here thank you yeah we have two items for the work session tonight and a whole mile of items are in the seat when we get to see them um so the principal into Africa interviews for Springfield representative on the El Rancho board I don't know do you have anything else to add to that AJ not unless you have any questions we're very excited um so there's there's two interviews tonight uh Adrian made a copy of the questions um it's up to you guys do you want me to ask them all we've done that sometimes or do you each want to choose a question to ask

0:49 you now that you're giving us a choice all right so our first uh interview is going to going to be James Hugo he is virtual so I am pulling him up hello everyone how are you tonight James can you hear us okay yeah I can

1:34 hear you great I'll outstanding hear me though we can hear you so we are ready to rock and roll um all right So the plan for the evening James is I'm gonna ask all seven questions and then um to get through your interview and then we've got a one more after after you so if you're ready to go um I'm gonna start uh asking the questions sounds like a plan I'm ready so why are you interested in serving on the lrap a board of directors well I mean I the main reason is I care about the air we Breeze um I'm really passionate about the environment and um I really really care about this community I care about my neighbors I care about my family and my immediate

2:21 family I even care about all of you folks some of you I don't have never met before um but I really uh that's the main the main reason could you describe your professional or personal experiences that relates to your desire to become a rapper board member well I would say um I've been considered a community scientist for the last four years and I've been constantly the last three going to school um at Purdue uh trying to get this environmental policy and management uh bachelor's degree and I spent a lot of my spare time uh monitoring the air I've partaked in a

3:07 couple air studies um here locally just basically having the devices um and the other ones are out the community and then outside of my neighborhood and just Gathering data and so I'm still continuing doing that I'm not partaking any actual study right now uh through any organization or university but I'm uh attempting to get involved with the Wildfire smoke Department over at the University of Oregon they just got a nice Grant um from the EPA to start studying Wildfire smoke and I'm just waiting for another email to get back from them and then hopefully next year I'll start working with them that's one of my goals um but yeah I work with Beyond toxics as

3:53 well they're a local non-profit um I'm constantly up to date with uh what's going on with at the federal level and at the state level and I'd like to be involved here at the local level so that's I think I could talk to you for hours about the science and the information that I'm learning every day but I don't have that much time tonight so I won't worry about the details could you please list any areas areas of concern you have about air quality Community Development or the environment in general well I would say the the main concern that I have uh is there's not enough

4:38 data and so um I mean I I have other concerns and regarding the environmental issues in Springfield um but the the facts are that there's not enough facts so um hopefully in the future we'll have enough data to actually um know more about what we're being exposed to and um if and if we're being exposed to that's what I should say too um but yeah the other concerns I have are uh there's a lot of factories in in heavy industry in our community um not just Springfield but throughout the whole County um but Springfield has a lot of it too and I firmly believe that these

5:23 companies and factories can exist and coexist within our communities if they are operating um efficiently and 110 percent um you know up to date with what we have technological wise now um International Paper corporation uh owned by warehouser property is is one of my main concerns because they they can coexist and operate if they do it right and I'm hoping that they're starting to get there I personally feel they've they've been uh taking their time to get to that point um and so that's that's what if I think I think the main concern outside of

6:08 not having enough information to um study it and understand what what's going on was what we're being exposed to but um I would just like to to see um you know things get a little bit more like basically be the have the businesses and the big corporations become good neighbors that's that's my goal as an advocate and as an environmentalist um is to to see that happen not just here in Springfield but throughout the country so outside of the monthly El rap award meetings what amount of time a volunteer time do you have to offer for working on with the lrap aboard uh I I could probably commit to 10 to 15 hours a week maybe 20 if that I mean I

6:53 have a a very flexible schedule um as long as I am able and the board's willing to work with me like I love zoom zoom platform's amazing I I do have some goals in it to get you know to be able to get to meetings and be able to be in person so that's something that I'm open to and I'm I'm gonna try my hardest to make that that goal be a reality um but I'm very flexible I like to I like to serve I feel like I'm that's what I need to be doing I'm I can't seem to to buy a house anywhere outside of Springfield so we're here and we might as well make the best of it and I'd like to to get more involved can you give up can you give us an example of your experience working on a

7:39 committee um I don't know if I've actually been on a committee I've been on a few I've partaked in a lot of state government uh hearings and um up a state level of Salem I have experience being around meetings like that and I've listened in on a lot of Council meetings but I I honestly don't have um any personal experience uh having that type of responsibility so that's kind of what I'm why I'm excited to try to make this happen because I would really like to try it and to see if I can do it and I'll be the first person to uh to say hey if I if I can't do it I will raise

8:24 my hand and be like um I have to I can't do it but I I feel like I am this is something that I can that I can do I really feel like I can be a good attribute to the to this board and bring a lot of good ideas to the table and and um and be a good Community member uh please name one way you would help inform our community about elrapa or El Rapa projects one way that I have or one way that I would like to that you would like to okay um I honestly think uh larapo would be maybe I don't know if they do this or not

9:09 um but in in schools like elementary schools middle schools high schools uh maybe even go into the University of Oregon and uh LCC I mean I think they actually have been at the UFO um but getting involved that way and um like assemblies and and of course social media is a powerful tool and um I think that would be a you know a good a good tool and then um there's always old-fashioned radio and Potter's podcasts all over the the place um there's a local podcast called spend the rent um I I would love to see I don't know if Travis Newton has been on there I think that would be a good I don't know if

9:54 Patrick Stutz would he even open to doing that but it's just that I come into my mind the first thing that comes to mind taking local um but I don't know that's that's I think that's what I would stick with those three ideas and finally how do you think the word for our the work of el Rapa will will improve our community better air quality um and more information more science more data um I've I think that that's the best uh the best thing that larapa could do for the community is to um keep us informed and uh

10:39 just keep on doing what they're doing perfect that was my last question um thank you James we're going to go to the next interview and then somebody's going to be in contact with you um with the results all right well thank you for your time and I hope you all have a wonderful night thanks our next applicant is like hello foreign

11:29 why are you interested in serving on the El Rapa board of directors um like him I'm concerned about the air quality and uh but also um you know I've been thinking the past probably 10 15 years it'd be nice to get involved in government involved in you know working with making decisions and and working with with the uh manage you know the the government in the city and even Beyond if if possible I just think that uh um I I'm just not very impressed with some of the leadership we have in not not Springfield area I I've heard really good things about Springfield but in

12:15 Oregon overall it's it seems like it's lacking some people with good decision making skills so that's you know but yeah I like him I like to go out hiking I like to have clean air I like to do things outside so yeah so um can you describe your professional or personal experience as it relates to being on our applicable board member I have none you know I'm he's got schooling and stuff I I have none of that I worked in a grocery store all my life so that's what I do um could you please list any areas of concern you have about air quality

13:00 Community Development in the environment in general you know it's I I think that uh like he said the factories and stuff like that it'd be nice to make sure that they're held accountable that there's an oversight that you know anything they're putting into the air is tested and and we're making sure that that it's as clean as it can possibly be um oversight mainly I think they're going to be good oversight on outside of the monthly I'll wrap up board meetings what amount of volunteer time would you have to offer elrapa I am retired so I have a lot of time that I I can put into it if need be if if I'm giving a call and

13:46 they said hey this we're going to be doing this it's important can you make it I can drop what I have going on and do it other than if it's something important with my grandkids I'm not dropping that I'll just say that right off the bat that's that's priority well there's a couple of grandparents that are around this table that get that yeah yeah can you give us an example of your experience working with the committee um government-wise none but I did I was a manager at the store I worked at and I was on many committees um wage committees things like that safety committees a lot of safety committees throughout the years I worked there 34 years so

14:31 um I was probably on I would say a dozen committees over that 34-year period um please name one way that you would help inform our community about El Rapa or L rap on projects uh Word of Mouth um if it was really important information I need to get out there um all right my pastor wouldn't be more than happy to talk about it from the pulpit and get it out there if it if it concerned the community um yeah and uh and I think he could probably talk with other pastors if it you know if it warranted I believe that would be a good way

15:16 and how do you think the work of their Elder apple board will improve our community yeah I honestly I don't know a whole lot about El rap uh when I was approached and said you know there's going to be an opening would you be interested in and serving on it I I said yes and I I looked into a little bit but it there's not a lot of information out there that you know that that can tell me a lot I I don't remember that perfect that was the last question okay thank you so much yeah so um we're gonna deliberate you can hang out you can uh you know go home so you can do it but somebody

16:01 will uh somebody will be in contact with you okay about what the outcome is okay thank you thank you great so we've got to come to some sort of decision here about who's going to build the citizen so is it something that we have to or we just we don't want to pick one of the two candidates we could send it back out again if you wanted to that is that that is an option so that would be my option that would be my request I feel totally comfortable with James I think he's been involved and passionate and it'd be nice to have that point of view on that board I can't hear you I'm sorry I feel totally comfortable with James he's been involved and passionate

16:47 and um I think it'd be great to have that perspective on the board Victoria's go back out okay anybody else Joe yeah I think um I think that's probably a good choice is to go back out and make sure we have a good a good yeah I agree I would like to see if we can get a little more interest and have a few more candidates are you go back out yeah okay you go back out or do you have a choice um I feel like maybe go back out as well okay so um no I think James is really passionate

17:32 and that as you know a lot of passion and drive but I feel like I'm not quite sure if I think it's right it's important okay so um let's do this go back out and then can you see if you can't squeeze it in on one of the first meetings we get back because El rap is going to by the end of the summer is going to be knocking on my door going where's the where's the person absolutely I didn't even know that we were filling this position otherwise I might have reached out to people go apply to yeah well it is sooner opposed to later you know arapa will be fine going one person down but like there's no deadline and we've

18:18 got to get it we've got to get it done a little background so yeah what happened was we lost our last one he passed away and so that was unexpected he didn't survive a surgery so um but a wrap up Springfield only has allowed one citizen representative Eugene is allowed three and so it's really a matter of trying to keep some balance um Oak Ridge has one et cetera but so there it's it's whenever any one of our even if it's your Junior representative or whoever if there's if there's someone missing it it just really you can really feel it in that in that board of directors so it's pretty important to not have any openings in that particular committee

19:04 kind of almost similar to life it was Springfield the police advisory committee is barely each one is represents a big Punk but they they need the person so I think going back out and giving us everybody a chance to recruit to would be good okay so the next the next item is include enforcement administrative civil penalties and Charlie campus back good evening interesting to see how the sausages made sometimes we'll be going through our own uh process interview process uh here at the

19:49 end of June um so it'd be good to get somebody on board so we'll be back to full strength and two okay good I thank you mayor Baron Gordon and Council again my name is Charlie Kent and I'm the city's code enforcement officer and I appreciate your time and consideration tonight um uh we're here to discuss

20:35 administrative civil parties and their application as a tiered enforcement response within the code enforcement program uh before I begin with the acps as they're known um however I'd like to take a a moment to kind of provide a broad timeline uh before rolling out or reconfiguring program updates um as they look currently um in January of 2024 we will be used in a policy and procedure manual and operating with strategic goals we'll also have a software update that we'll be doing this summer which will also affect our workflow process make that a little bit more efficient as well

21:20 um and a big benefit that we'll we'll get from that newer software is we'll be collecting a lot more analytical data right so we can make some some business decisions based off of numbers and facts and so um it'll be a pretty pretty fun time in the code enforcement program so acps are an important foundational piece for this program in several regards um uh acps provide that tiered enforcement response two violations which don't require that full traditional process um the practical application of AP acp's compel officers to get out of their trucks and make contact uh and engage

22:06 more with community members and they also provide a better mechanism to resolving those those legal issues or those issues that are right in front of the officers right then so I'd really like to come away from this session um with your support of the administrative civil penalties process um as that tiered enforcement response which uh councilor council president pishneri mentioned during our May 22 session um I would also like to hear from you regarding any policy or the municode updates that will be required in order to use acps so I start with a disclaimer neither of these photos are of homes in the City of Springfield

22:51 um I Googled cars parked on the front lawn and these are what is public information either way um I'd also like to tell you a quick personal story to to kind of frame this um so my daughter recently moved to Oklahoma City and as she's moving in the single car garage is full and social parts are car on the front lawn and Oklahoma City's code enforcement team paid her a visit and wrote her a hundred dollar citation um right off the bat she was really upset about it uh 100 bucks means a lot to a 20 year old but it was really that notice to correct she didn't have you know like a corrective period uh with

23:37 wish to comply she had no idea it was real right most people though so it's important to consider or to understand that acps for us aren't just a ticket right off the bat right this is just a faster mechanism to get to get to voluntary compliance which is which is our goal okay and if you don't mind I I like to move around but I'd like to point the screen as well that work for everybody okay you might get really close to it but you'll be okay okay so if we're on the left I'll try not to stand in front of the camera so we've got prohibited parking which is um a nuisance code violation uh within the Springfield Municipal Code uh basically it states that you can't park anywhere between the front of your house

24:23 and the street except on a driveway okay so if this were occurring in the City of Springfield both of these homes would follow the same legal process the the same judicial process that we use um it's I'll get a little bit more into detail later but this is a pretty uh timely process and it's not quite appropriate for this instance right administrative civil penalities could allow officers to attempt to resolve this right on site if I were to pull up to this and come and knock on knock on the front door ask the uh the responsible part here the the homeowner to move their car we're talking a 15 or 20 minute conversation a little bit of education and everybody's walking away

25:09 smiling right um instead of that letter in the mail which is probably a little bit better for for this picture right so we've got several different violations um prohibited parking there's a vehicle parked outside of the driveway there's a bunch of stuff and I apologize about the quality of the photo but there's a bunch of stuff stored in the the back of the vehicle which is a violation of the code we didn't quite see the the silver carpet it's leaning up on one tire which indicates that there's probably some support under there so there's some mechanical work going on the hood is up there's another car parked on halfway on the grass halfway on the curb not sure what's going on there and then another vehicle parked parallel to the one part of the curb so potentially we've got

25:54 four municipal code violations not including the potential of a party bus or a commercial bus that could either be parked next door and then another development called violation of an accessory structure too close to property lines okay so in essence we resolve these the same today hmm we could make that a little bit different right we can do that a little bit better and um hey Charlie please answer questions I just think it's a kind of a good time to cover this because it's a major concern that I have I have had for a long time is that you're referring to the homeowner here

26:39 easy contact no problem and then over here but what happens is there's such thing called rental homes and the renters and renters aren't getting cited it's the property owner so they're landlords are the ones that are under the gun in regards to liens on their property or assessments against their property when in fact it's the renter behavior that is violating the code so there's no there's in code there's no separation or contemplation in regards to who actually whose behavior is causing a co-violation as opposed to

27:24 who's going to pay have to pay should there be a default and what happens currently is that the default now gets assessed against the property or I.E the landlord and of course the landlord says hey you know people tell the landlord well there's I'm sure there's you can't break the law because that's against a contract a rental contract which is common but then the renters are protected from any type of of kickout orders typically without a prolonged process if at all possible so in the middle of renter Behavior and the land property owner ultimately the property owner is the one that's caught holding the bill

28:09 how are we going to eliminate that well I can tell you firsthand um that there's a typical process that I work through when determining a responsible person I take the the shortest Avenue to correction who is directly responsible and on-site and able to correct this issue right the the person on the left that's going to be pretty quick and easy person on the right it could be a renter as you say or it could be a homeowner both of which you start at the bottom of working way to the top right in terms of corrective action the notice is that we as Minister that I I send out to folks are administered to or excuse me addressed

28:55 to a resident of the the property and I can get the license plate information I can find out who the registered owner is address them as well and then our lid collects the property owner information so they're notified through all three phases it's been my experience that when I uh address these violations through the residents or the renters if you will probably less likely to correct them than a landlord would be however there's there's a significant amount of time between that initial contact of um you know the the notice to comply or that that initial notice of violation to it and you'll see it a little bit later to 60 days when the landlord we're

29:40 trying to give them the opportunity now even then after that final warning citation it's not always a civil citation directly to the uh the landowner the property owner it's very often that I cite the responsible party which is almost exclusively the renter in that sort of relationship so yeah I understand the process I've seen it and I've seen the letters and I've seen some responses and I've spoken to several different landlords that are upset about how current process is when they're being held to a standard an understandable standards not like they don't aren't okay with the code it is the enforcement process and there doesn't seem to be a a clear

30:27 you know you're referring to sometimes this and sometimes that and I get that but but it should actually be very clear if it's if there's a violation based on a particular person's Behavior then that person or a person should be held liable or that and not not that's not the property owner so to speak if it's a rental situation and and it's easy to use cars as as well but there's many other code violations that have occurred out there that result in the landlord getting penalized and being taken to court having to defend themselves with attorneys in court to not be held accountable for those who are attempt to not be held accountable for those co-violations I'm just wondering if there's uh equal amount of consideration

31:12 if we're changing this up it seems like this is a prime opportunity in which to look at where can we change that process so we're not enamoring the landlords based on renter Behavior you know I don't know if I have a great answer for you I don't expect you short after I'm just bringing that up so I think it's this is a perfect time because if we're going to go through this whole shebang I think that's this is a perfect opportunity to not let this part go unaddressed okay yeah let me uh look back into it and I will uh chat with Mary Bridget the one thing I see is a CP process is they say when staff will be given discretion to negotiating some

31:58 flexibility yeah thank you I just want to Echo I think that's a critical that's a critical distinction show brings up right like is because we're already doing the whole program essentially right and I know you guys have to sort of work and hammer away and figure out what you're going to do but sort of creating the right amount of tracks so that you know so that you can engage with people the right way would be helpful Victoria I'm also a little confused that someone parking on their own property with a car would be equal to somebody blocking the sidewalk so that a person in a wheelchair has to go out into the street I know that we're dealing with a lot of new neighborhoods now where the driveways are very short

32:43 and I have one new new subdivision at around my house and when I walk my dog literally every other house has a truck sticking out into the sidewalk and I have to walk around them um so I just I just find it difficult to believe that someone who's partying on their own property with their working vehicle is it is held to the same standard as somebody who's doing something that's clearly affecting other people in our community versus just being kind of a Icewear sure and and there's two two violations to be clear working entirely on your own property it's just prohibited parking if you're halfway on the sidewalk and halfway on the front yard that would be both obstruction of right away and

33:28 unprodemptive parking but why is that and why is that a violation to park on your own property um that was determined okay Council we wrote the code okay it's in the munica and so I think Charlie has mentioned there will be municipal code changes required to implement this new process so it may be an opportunity the council may want to consider do we want that to be a violation in Springfield any longer I mean I want to see my neighbors all I mean on blocks right so I mean it's not like the comparison of it too you know one's affecting them and one's affecting you know Steve Mr Russ Nelson but you Google how's Kevin there's going to be a lot of parking problems out there we can address them

34:13 for everybody for every voice to that sorry but uh it's gonna be a big deal and the antennas can get cars off streets are not on other streams just gone but in the meantime we have that yeah and councilman's referring to the cfac rules the climate friendly Ecuador communities roles that we will no longer be able to require parking anywhere in the city as of the first of next calendar year um and we already see it and I'll just use Marcola met as an example our fire department's having problems getting their fire trucks through that neighborhood and it's brand new you know everything's pretty new and nice but the parking and they've provided parking in Marco Meadows in accordance with our code today so anyway it's going to get

34:58 worse yeah for sure so well we're talking about when we're talking about parking right like in when you play this out in the Future Past 2024 right like and you think about more coal Meadows and assuming that nobody provided parking like what's that it is foreseeable that our streets really could look like Marcola Meadows where we're having trouble getting bio trucks in right yeah so what's the remediation to that is that well enforcement for one not that Charlie does parking enforcement but um and I'm sure the police doesn't want to do parking enforcement or doesn't necessarily have the resources to do it but it may be rethinking our street

35:43 designs you know we we narrowed a lot of our street cross sections is that still appropriate should we allow people to not have parking on their streets if we know there is going to be a demand for it and it's likely to happen anyway I mean I don't know these are large policy level discussions for you to consider in the future probably as usual code enforcement touches everything sure yeah I would just like to talk about uh on street parking as well almost every access into my neighborhood now is parking on both sides of the street it's a real challenge for for us as cars to navigate but fire an emergency that they're really you know it's a tight squeeze for those guys so I would really like to have that conversation too

36:32 so as you can see violations are occurring in both photographs um basically um what I'm trying to get across is that you probably need to have two mechanisms for endorsement so that we can address both problems to their best resolution really talking about is how the code enforcement program can be more effective this is a small piece of it but to be more effective we need to identify and develop more Tools in our toolbox uh to frame this uh try and think of the administrative penalties uh process as a parking ticket or a Fix-It ticket

37:17 the violations are simple to correct and the fines are relatively low now think of the Civil citation issued in the judicial process as more of a Dewey citation a driving while Under the Influence or or intoxicants this is a the fines are significantly higher here and and the procedure to citation uh involves many many more steps there are two differences between a Judicial and administrative civil enforcement process presumption and proceed procedure excuse me in the Civil citation and complaint process the city presents facts and facts and testimony to the municipal court judge who then finds the who then finds the accused guilty or not guilty

38:03 based on the judicial interpretation of the code those facts presented and also by both the city and the accused during the legal proceeding if found guilty the city recommends an appropriate penalty but ultimately it's the judge who makes the determination of both the fine and of guilt in the administrative civil penalties process is in uh it is assumed or presumed that the city's findings are factual uh there's no judicial intervention or determination made penalties are unilaterally imposed through a standard violation specific Matrix and because um due process is required for a lawful applications of both processes an appeal

38:50 process is available in both and we'll get into that just a little bit later as well currently with the the limited data collection system that we've developed over the past six months we've received 179 complaints um a hundred of those approximately 100 of those would fall under the umbrella of the ACP process through that first inspection it could transition to a different process if for instance we get a report of car part in a prohibited area I mean we show up and there's you know they're running a auto mechanic shop out of their backyard that's going to be a different different uh Avenue to approach so out of those 179 uh sort of reports right how many are you getting through

39:36 right now like you're saying roughly over a half could go into this ACP process but with only one or two people doing the more complex process what's your ability to get through that 179 um the the goal if I were to work without administrative um uh in outside of an administrative capacity I'm just on the streets the target goal is to touch about 10 cases per day phone calls complaints inspections and then rotate through that 50 through the week so at any one point I'd be closing some I'd be opening some maybe responding and processing those

40:23 a time period uh from January one okay so for those hundred uh complaints the the ACP process would be a good candidate is that first response um it's more appropriate uh it's a more appropriate response to those larger volume uh complaints which are a single violation or have a low barrier to compliance so think of you know a a basketball poll that's just stored in the street is an obstruction of right-of-way or maybe you have a couch uh by the curb which has a sign for you posted on it those are those are small small potatoes was that what they call a curb alert server um ACP also provides officers to make

41:09 provides officers an opportunity to make those Community connections uh it allows us to engage and get out of our trucks as I said before um and knock on those doors and really approach enforcement through an educational lens at least during that initial contact um there's also potentially a much faster resolution time because of this short time frame set for initial compliance when someone has to pay a fine within three days they can see that Financial implication much quicker than the 30 40 60 days for a nuisance violation um Additionally the ACP process can also serve as a precursor to the judicial process by fulfilling the required prior

41:55 warning section of the municipal code currently it's codified that the city shall make a contact and warn somebody of a violation before issuing civil citation this process the ACP process would would fill that role we'd be able to roll right into a civil citation if necessary that's not to say that the the judicial process doesn't have its place within the program it really does in some instances the judicial process works well in conjunction with high barrier to compliance violations right so if there's a lot of required Corrections for instance you have you know four municipal code violations and two development code violations we're going to attack that piecemeal and and

42:40 try and work with those responsible parties to voluntary comply and and put some you know put some structure around it so that it's a little bit easier to swallow right we might address you know three nuisance violations or one portion of the entire issue within a given time frame and then readjust and progress from there additionally uh there are Financial constraints and sometimes parallel legal processes counselor uh Kushner you spoke about eviction and oftentimes uh with those chronic or those uh real um uh tough uh uh renters there are additional legal uh you know uh tools

43:27 that landlords use to resolve the issues before receiving a citation uh and uh the the municipal court process also insulates staff a little bit we're not the final determination of whether or not the party is found guilty it provides for um an alternative method uh for for folks to be heard uh in a legal format um and also for for those chronic violations which require post citation legal processes uh like an administrative search warrant or an abatement warrant it allows the court to get ahead of those a little bit so they're not too surprised about when things come out

44:13 but so the the ACP processes I envisioned would have a predefined matrix for the city's response to common or low barrier violations um initially I would focus on these top three municipal code violations um prohibited parking garbage stored in the public View and obstructions of the right-of-way now I've explained prohibit parking it's basically parking on on your lawn on either side of your driveway in between the street and the uh the face of the house it's against the code to store garbage in public view if it's not within a wholly enclosed leak-proof receptacle

44:58 with a lid and then it must be removed from property once every seven days that's what the code States um additionally it's unlawful for any person to prevent public passage or free passage over a public right-of-way as well and so the required Corrections for these violations are simple to correct they're simple to manage and they're simple to address um uh because this is a potentially new process for the code enforcement program I think it's prudent to start with um uh three um easy to administer uh violations initially and then build out into other violations as needed um especially after we refine the administrative aspect of the of the acps

45:46 um one thing about the acps is that we'll have to use administrative staff in-house to collect those binds and develop that as well so that would be including the softwares that goes um quick question on the fences does the City of Springfield have a irrevocable petition process so that if somebody has offense that they have built that or a um like a retaining wall or something like that that is intruding in the right of way that they get something that covers that that says look we know you've got this here but if and if we ever need you to move it where you have to move it but they're sort of covered so they're not repeatedly getting bothered by that I just didn't know if that's something that we have we do have it a lot of times for new ones

46:31 especially retaining walls okay Jeff might know a little bit more about from the engineering side when it's in the right-of-way but it's part of the yard or just behind the sidewalk that kind of thing fences not so much probably but um we do operate on a complaint basis if the fence is causing an issue that's when it would be addressed all right I just wanted to interject something really quick and that is Charlie said a lot of these low-hanging fruit kind of violations are easy to resolve sometimes they're not for people you know the trash might build up because there's you know it could be movement concerns or just Financial concerns I also want to put a plug for Charlie does a really good job with also connecting people to

47:16 resources that are available in the community we do have a grant right now we're working on to provide free trash for um disposal for people dumpsters and things so anyway there's a lot of that work that goes on that Charlie is probably not going to take credit for but it's really working the entire problem from a holistic perspective because some of these things might seem like they should be easy but they're not always right um so due process and and I've told you I've come back to it um and it's important it's very important to note that people have rights to Due Process um and and um I don't seem to sound presumptuous but when you hear due process I get lost because there's a few different aspects

48:02 of it and and what I'm really talking about is fair procedures so when you think of a due process think Fair procedures another way to explain it is that due process means that a citizen will be affected by a government decision must be given advanced notice of what the government plans to do and then also how the government's actions May deprive them right um So within the context of Code Enforcement one aspect of due process is the right to appeal the decision so within the current civil citation model an appeal is made to the Circuit Court the peel must be made within 30 days following the the Court's decision and and the city is represented then by the

48:49 city attorney's office and the petitioner must represent themselves in Circuit Court um this is a formal legal process with a circuit court judge presiding and it's it's appropriate sometimes I've never been involved in an appeal process through the city across the Chicago Board but I've heard it's pretty daunting Joe Charlie that's you're referring to you your referring to cases that are adjudicated in our municipal court and they respondent wants to appeal that decision and goes to a higher Court that's right Council commissioner thank you for clarifying so um uh the the municipal court judge would render a finding of guilty and and then that appeal would not be made at

49:36 the municipal court but to the higher Court of the Circuit Court automatic the circuit court right in the ACP model um there's the same right to be heard is it's a little bit less formal process and it's done through hearings official um a hearings official the city has contracts uh contract through elcog um and we would piggyback off that if we were to implement this um the appeal must be made within 10 days of the deadline for payment um and the legal environment is much less formal um it's a simpler process and my understanding and experience is that it's been geared more towards mediation rather than finding um but regardless of the venue a

50:22 person's right to a due process must be observed by the city so our our current judicial process and and to provide Clarity and the difference between um our current process and acps I'd like to walk you through some of the common uh workflow steps that we use uh with uh days and and just kind of a simple progression please keep in mind that code allows us to be pretty flexible with deadlines so we can extend deadlines uh we can we're not going to shorten them but we can always extend headlines yeah reduce um so initially the city receives a complaint we receive a complaint and from didn't

51:07 you know many different uh areas that comes into our administrative staff who then creates a record in a Cella on this our inspection is scheduled and this can take anywhere from one to three days um uh it's a fire life safety issue uh we usually respond same day and there's been a few over the past couple years where we've gotten out there pretty quick but more typically it's that one to three day administrative process and that's going to be the same uh on the judicial side and also on the xcp side now following that or depending on the result of that first inspection a notice of violation is mailed to um again the responsible parties uh who the city finds we look at license plates and

51:52 property tax records we try and contact neighbors or maybe the complaint has that information so we get as much information to determine that as we can that notice contains all the legal required documentation of due process plus a very clear outline of what the violation is uh what the deadline is and also what the required Corrections are what are we looking for you to do and trying clearly outliner um the deadline is typically 330 votes depending on what the violations is are or the quantity and then the city then moves on to um once that notice is set a re-inspection is set for if the deadline

52:39 is 30 days then we're going 31 we'll be out there the day following the deadline for re-inspection this process is repeated through the warning citation that initial notification is a notice of violation second one is a warning citation the third one is a final warning citation once the final warning citation um citations deadline has passed the city then changes skiers and we issue a citation a complaint and citation and file that with the municipal court code officers schedule the arraignment date for 14 to 21 days following the date of this citation which is typically the day of the that last inspection and then the

53:27 accused then goes before the judge and enters their plea of guilty not guilty with a complete in advance there's there's a few different options there almost exclusively they enter a plead not guilty which sets us over to trial uh trial occurs 21 to 30 days past that I've seen it as long as 60 and also as short as probably 14 though that's very common or not very common our potential kind to the very first buying being placed on the responsible party is 60 days more uh more regularly deadlines are included Within These notices and warnings uh we we extend violations out to try and get some compliance but 60 to

54:13 90 days is what we can expect from uh for that first time to be implemented yeah is there interest in stuff that accrues if they don't pay no no not right now one of the benefits of the ACP process is that it can be tailored to the city or Community needs um a schedule or a fine Matrix would need to be developed by the city and adopted prior to using the acps pen Vision a progressive penalty Matrix with a standard of those deadlines so establishing you know what's it realistically going to take to get your car off that front front lawn and and move forward from there

54:59 um and then any re-inspections following the um those notices or those Fix-It tickets would also be included in that standard schedule I think during the first inspection again we're complaining to First inspection one to three days that's going to be a standard um uh following that that first inspection here's where the big difference comes in that's when we take a little bit of time on the scene instead of driving by and collecting a photograph we intend to pay contact every reasonable attempt to make contact in person or resolve that violation on site um if unable to do so we could potentially

55:45 leave a notice to comply or the relevant educational materials on site in plain view in a mailbox or taped to a basketball poll if that's the issue hooked under the windshield wiper on a front door or excuse me on the front windshield of the car and the first notification would also set a much tighter timeline so from that first notice we would be out uh and and set that deadline to be three to five days you know I mean it doesn't require a lot of effort and that's why we're really targeting these specific violations to really get the administrative process down and then kind of roll out the others

56:31 progressively if the violation remains on site uh or excuse me if the violation remains on uh re-inspection potentially we could issue a Fix-It ticket this would follow the same vein as the notice it would be left on site if no contact was made but again every reasonable contact would be made in person I mean and it wouldn't be an immediate find we would request or we would basically provide an order within five days either if this is still remaining there's a 50 fine attached to it but you also have the opportunity to to correct that as well um depending on the progression within that scale um I would like to set a ceiling uh to

57:17 the limit of uh the fine amount so I don't want to issue a 50 fine every two days for the next three months um eventually it would reach a kind of a critical mass roughly 500 depending on on how that you know that's a substantial amount of money and it's also the the maximum fine amount for your first guilty finding within court so on every violation as we currently uh work every violation that we cite into court potentially has a forfeiture of 500 for the first violation and then a thousand dollars for every violation um if within a year of a citation I

58:02 explain that enough so your second citations that's per violation oftentimes they're supported by violations occurring on property so after the 500 uh or uh predetermined ceiling is met we could roll back into judicial the judicial process this would be less staff intensive meaning that we wouldn't have to go out on site every two days but we could roll into a 14 or 21 day cycle where the fines are substantially more right and we'd also have some core tools to use and have that secondary piece of the puzzle um it should be really pointed out that

58:48 um There's an opportunity here to reduce fines a lot of the folks that that I deal with are unable or unwilling to correct distance violations um mostly unable because they're it's expensive uh it's not a a free thing to fix your car right uh so those are a lot of the considerations that we take into account when we make that recommendation to the judge during the guilty finding um it's it's not uncommon to see four zeros behind a guilty finding of you know a significant property that's had six or seven citations issues these occur over you know a long period of time um but these are still regular people

59:35 who have have uh you know committed a civil violation and you know you get four zeros Beyond a fine amount it's kind of tough to swallow um but in the the AC ACP process we'd be able to go back into that and get maybe some stiffer fines but also some also a precursor to abatement or um if needed so the potential time to the first spine is significantly different 50 bucks uh it would do within six days has a different ring than uh 500 bucks in

1:00:20 eight weeks uh the the potential the potential consequence so and it it could add up quickly again this is a an on-site fluid process where officers would be out explaining and working with books to come into compliance this isn't a process where the city has to move forward with the full fine amount and lay that hammer down we would be willing and open to working with folks doesn't go into the code enforcement budget let me tell you so and again if we were to follow a 14-day deadline for um in additional fixed tickets

1:01:06 um our potential time to trial is 45 days um and so that would be more on-site educational opportunities with folks prior to the citation then you would otherwise see so there's a there's a quote from the author of author of the Atlantic uh broken windows Theory article uh which was written in 1982. um George L Kelling um once said once you begin to deal with the small problems in neighborhoods he began to empower those neighborhoods people claim their public spaces and the store owners extend their concern to what happened on the streets communities get strengthened

1:01:52 in criminology the broken windows theory is a metaphor for disorder in neighborhoods it states that visible signs of crime anti-social behavior and Civil Disobedience create an urban environment which encourages further crime and disorder including serious crime to provide a better community service code enforcement will use acps to resolve individual violations when they're small stuff through Community engagement and take a house by house approach Emily Dickinson once said if you take care of the Small Things the big things take care of themselves so I think acps are the much needed tiered enforcement mechanism that our program needs to be

1:02:39 more effective and more efficient so with that I thank you for your time Mark was there anything to add I think you did a great job I think Charlie back in May talked about we really only have one tool now it's a sledgehammer for some of these cases and so really this ACP process is at least one other tool in the toolbox and it's like a ball peen hammer or something a little lighter um so at least it gives a little bit of flexibility it may not be multiple tools but two is better than one I think as Charlie demonstrated just in the simple photo examples okay Joe so I I appreciate the ATP model yeah there's a lot of work I can I can tell it's probably it's something that's new learned and and you're taking them

1:03:24 taking the ball and run with it which is a okay with me and it looks like a good Improvement and I can support it except I can't support it until I see some sort of tool in which we can separate the Damage Done to landlords as opposed to the violators of the behavior issues it I think it could be easily not easily resolved I think it can be resolved in a fairly easy way in regards to that initial contact when you see a violation and then you post something because quite often they're not home I know that I'm not saying they're always gone but typically they're not home especially if you have a stored vehicle or whatever but instead of just posting on the

1:04:11 property or in the windshield or door or whatever that the next action should do it should be an absolute article hard research the property owner and yet you can go with registration this course probably two-thirds of your registration now nowadays are worried and inaccurate and expired but I think it's very important that you can simultaneously send a violation notice to the occupant label it as occupant or resident and send one to the property owner saying be advised be a place you know you may have seen this notice if not this property has been posted with the following violations and this is the process site gives that landlord that heads up saying

1:04:57 okay we got a problem here I'm going to call my renter and I'm going to say fix it or I'm going to be climbing down your throat so it's something that's that's the same time notification so that way the landlord is well aware it's usually typically an automatic violation of the rental contract which allows for an immediate response but if you give them a lag of 14 to 30 days well that's that's lag time that the landlord's losing being able to do anything about it so I think that's a huge uh ingredient is missing here and I think that it's it's very important that property owners know it if they're different than the occupant that would make it I think it'd be fair

1:05:43 now the property owners would have no excuse for not doing anything right so they can be held accountable and they have nothing to whine about but if they are all of a sudden given a surprise notice saying hey you've got a court order by the way and it's going to be a thousand dollars and if you don't pay it we're going to put a lien on your property or et cetera et cetera that that's that is to me that completely unfair but I can support this again if you have some sort of mechanism that really goes to the Violator and the ability for a person who's actually responsible for that property to have the have them being given proper notice as well

1:06:28 sure so so what I'm hearing just to clarify is that um uh nothing wrong with the ACP necessarily but a key fundamental piece that's missing is that notification not necessarily just the responsible party but also all parties who have standing within Whoever has a dog in a fight they should they should be notified whoever's got a dog in the fight and it's going to end up potentially losing anything they should be given notice and that's from the very beginning because then they're a partner with you they're actually a partner and they can actually help the resolution that's what I was in contact you can absolutely contact you and say let me help you know I will help you let's meet over there or whatever and we can figure this out or I can time you know I can get a tow truck in there the next three days will that

1:07:13 work your response sure and and all of a sudden it's all done but you're some some renters are not going to respond at all they're going to blow up your notices and your citations and all of a sudden now you're into it many hours of work you're involved in a course when that could all be available Victoria that was my father I was just agreeing with that yeah thank you um I I appreciate this work to kind of introduce the layers or the tiers as you say and um just listening to folks share their opinions I'm thinking one of the things that I'm interested in if we're going to start this in a new way is can we collect um demographic information about the

1:07:59 process one of my concerns or just Curiosities would be our understanding of everyone if we're striving towards some more fairness as we say um it would be interesting to see in what neighborhoods um who is getting treated in which part of the process so where does it get escalated where does it not get escalated and see if we find that we have some bias or where there's some disparities in terms of who's being treated in what way or you know people have opinions about renters versus landlords or things like that so if we're going to start this and when we get to the place where we do if we can collect that information so we have a a good understanding of you know how is

1:08:46 our code enforcement landing and is it Landing in an equitable way or or is it just another way that people are getting pushed into the system in different ways does that make sense I understand yeah thank you yeah it's an opportunity for us to kind of dig in a little more I was just going to say I completely agree with what Joe was saying and on the flip side of that if a landlord said oh yeah you can park your car here and gave the tenant permission to do so and it was a violation that's just you know makes the point of they should both be informed because maybe the tenant you know the landlord told the tenants find to park their car over here on the grass whatever because you got two vehicles and then they were under the impression that that was okay and know the code sure and

1:09:31 that's a very common um you know issue that we deal with and that's why notification and warnings so okay I could just respond to counselor Rodney's point it's a great point we have had a lot of concerns primarily from our city attorney's office about the fairness of how we receive complaints and that it can be used as a tool for discrimination different things so we are keenly aware of that and want to prevent people from using us as a weapon against certain populations and that kind of thing so I appreciate that thank you all right so I've got a I guess a couple of uh of comments about it like I like the framework I feel like we're about on

1:10:17 conversation two out of about five conversations we're gonna we're gonna interim with this the one question that I had is when you sort of separate these between sort of the ACP process and the civil and civil process are you expecting more I guess um cases to come through right because if we push more work into this in this quicker ACP process we may create is there a concern about creating some induced demand here um I think initially um there will be um uh it will be more time consuming than our current process but I think time to resolution is going to be significantly reduced and as um we are out in the community more uh we're going to have to be in the community less

1:11:02 so you know if we go into a uh uh a framework of an observation approach uh we're looking at Geographic areas or uh we're looking at uh specific object violations so we're looking at driver departing throughout the city or along the Main Street Corridor those would potentially I think be case Creations but I don't think this will be we're still complaint based um it's going to be a little bit more time in the field on the you know when we're getting out of the truck and talking to folks but we're going to save that time back in the office when we have to do the administrative piece of this where we have to draft the letters in mail it so I think you know time perv violation I

1:11:49 think we're going to be equal Victoria are you viewing them or are you looking at getting some type of software that's going to help you with the management of this so that you are seeing those properties that are maybe getting a lot more complaints than others or that are repeat offenders or where they're at in the stage of the process okay we went and talked to them at this screen and then it's yellow and then it's red or something like as opposed to just like an Excel spreadsheet yeah and so you're talking uh data right and analytics and and I think uh one of the um one of the big asks probably number two on the list is uh when we're looking at these software vendors is we need data we need to be able to collect this

1:12:34 data uh record it and make it efficient um and so that's a huge piece I think both to uh Council Radley rodley's Point annuals even GIS Pace type where you can map it and see a heat map and those kind of things I mean Charlie is has a timeline for researching all the different types of software available to assess what fits argument is the best a joke so the number of years earlier today did you say up to date for 23 you have a hundred and received 179 complaints is that correct that's correct so that's on average just like hair below seven a week yes so you were mentioning dealing with

1:13:19 in the day so it appears as though most all those are pre-existing and that the seventh seventh per week that you're getting is just on top of the 10 before they are resolved um the majority of the complaints that we've received I haven't done a first inspection on I haven't been out to see them um so when when you consider the the total time spent as a code enforcement officer um the minorities spent in the field in in the role that I'm currently serving uh so I haven't been addressing 10 complaints a day or cases per day as I said that would be an average of uh you know what what we what we normally see

1:14:05 um with court and and some of the the Municipal Court matters that you know we've been developing the abatement process I've been really tied up with some of those more public uh safety you know uh life safety issues so I just kind of do the numbers and work and Jive in very well yeah if I could just interject too that say 10 per day that you address those are repeat time visits from multiple different cases it's not always 10 new cases per day he's doing these multiple site visits on you know every two weeks or something he's going back to 10 Pace management basically active Pace manager potential day okay okay so um the other I think the other two uh important points is the things that constituents reach out to us are actually the hardest of the heart right

1:14:51 they're not the people that are going to go into the ACP and what I'm looking for when we have the um the the next conversation about it is maybe just a little bit more information about how to is there any tweak or streamlining or if we talk to the judge right do they have any sort of ideas to sort of help us address those you know those constant those frequent players that are just out there in open cases for a while it is very common for me to talk to constituents and say hey you're doing the right thing right but this thing is going to feel like it's going to take forever because these are so complex and so hard to work with uh you know mayor I don't know if we can necessarily incorporate or incorporate that into the ACP timeline um I I think that requires more on more

1:15:36 staff on site uh and and staff response um uh well we could look at uh streamlining um uh the the court procedures to citation um what we've done in the past months with a few different cases which are chronic issues so we've gone into the abatement process and and that has been pretty quick um and so uh typically there's a an initial you know almost exclusively these are already in our in our sphere we already have an active case at these locations um if it gets that point where we feel it's necessary to Abate 10 days before we get somebody on site it's you know a much quicker resolution than a typical

1:16:21 we'll we'll go cite them again and we'll cite them again in two weeks but if I could just interject again really quick um so I think one of these three four five conversations the next one that'll happen in the fall we will be back here I think we can bring you back some ideas and discussion about that Charlie mentions abatement that is a new Dynamic for code enforcement we haven't really gone into that realm if we have it's been quite some time he's working very closely with our finance department to look at the liens and things so there's some we know of properties out there right now that are probably 50 to 100 000 to actually do a cleanup on them we don't have the means to do that today he's done a couple within just the last

1:17:06 eight six eight months that were pretty big high profile cases that took a lot of doing these are over ten thousand dollars worth of cost to upbeat but we can continue down that path and have conversations about how to make that part of the program better as well yeah and I think I think we all got to sort of think about this in sort of tears right the first one is to get through ACP the next one is to sort of dive into streamlining one of those but like that the particularly those tough cases are the ones that really impact neighborhoods and just have people that are frustrated viewers and wanting to just move because they just wanted his time and I think it's Savannah it's valuable to point out that that is still still an issue even if we have to option for State money for additional cleanup but like being able

1:17:52 to clean up and deal with the those kind of issues in our neighborhoods my last question before we get wrapped up here is when I think about when I think about the you know sort of Code Enforcement right I also think about those chronic properties exist sort of at a Nexus between fire issues and um in PD right and probably even some public workers Public Works issues right so again I think the question the the comment they have is really I'm looking for like an all kind of All City response because if they're on your chronic list there's a higher probability that Chief Shear may want to chat with them about other issues right so how is that going to sort of play out um I've had conversations with both the fire marshal which is uh you who represents a fire's response uh cheap

1:18:39 share was kind enough to um grant us an audience and Lieutenant repay will be the point of contact there um so that meeting just needs to be scheduled okay it really does um I think we've got um Chief Worthington had a broken window um a task force and we'll follow kind of that model but I think it's more information sharing um recently we've started creating a hot sheet a code enforcement not machine every couple weeks we'll uh you know share with staff who may be affected about several different residences which are current issues look you know and I I mentioned this to Nancy earlier but like I think dev has an interesting model right because active and you know Public Works means what Friday it's the secret

1:19:25 Friday meeting to sort of share information there's a there's probably a really good model in there to sort of pull back and and pursue something like that where you're taking that same code sheet and kind of you know tapping the fire folks and the police folks on the on the shoulder and saying like let's get connected maybe it could be on Thursday so we have a Thursday meeting and a Friday we need no yeah all right let me just educate yourself and on warrantless searches along those searches possibly I want to say that the cartilage yes

1:20:12 okay go Mark just to recap it sounds like we're hearing support for moving forward with the ACP we'll bring it back to you in the fall yeah all right I think we're good and I'm seeing people kind of get up and stretch our lives and I want to take advantage of there being you know 10 minutes before it answer me so thank you guys we'll see you in the fall thank you thank you