Springfield City Council — June 26, 2023

0:02 yeah I'm going to call the city council work session to order with roll call Mayor Ben Gordon here councilor Weber here councilman here councilor Blackwell well here counselor Doyle here and conserve missionary all right we have one item for the work session and I feel like we're going to hit the cycle of meetings tonight um so it's Transportation sidewalk funding hybridization with the group arson thank you Mr Mayor good evening counselors uh as to um as mentioned we are going to be talking about sidewalk prioritization this evening um I've heard a few talking notes but most of the information is in the council briefing memo as well as a few attachments that I provided including existing sidewalk Network um sidewalk service requests we have a

0:48 sidewalk service request tool that you can go in online and say my sidewalk's broken and upheaved um as well as a socioeconomic map um without further Ado I'll just launch right into it so as you're aware um there's a large backlog of sidewalk repair and maintenance needs throughout Springfield as well as multiple inventing sidewalk gaps uh back in 2020 or 2022 May of last year um but Central Maine Metropolitan planning organization or the mpo awarded the City of Springfield 1.34 million dollars to address uh Springfield sidewalk issues the initial conversation in 20 to 2022 uh revolved around a sidewalk repair program it would be like

1:33 a three to four year uh program in which Ben Gibson um with me this evening uh his operations Department would kind of administer um however staff recently learned that due to the nuances of the funding that was awarded which is congested mitigation and air quality uh money um That Sidewalk repair program is unlikely to be approvable um this is due to the the CMAC funding must be uh we must demonstrate that people have chosen to drive their vehicles as opposed to walking on the sidewalks due to his disrepair while this may be achievable yeah I think it would take significant step time um potentially taking away lots of

2:19 dollars from the actual awarded awarded money that we have um so therefore staff explored an alternative approach to construct new sidewalks and complete missing gaps around schools Transit and other services that currently prevent pedestrian travel um I did discuss this with the mpo and they did uh agree that new sidewalks are absolutely approvable with the tmac funds that we have awarded currently so tonight staff is seeking uh three prioritizations uh to design and to deliver the sidewalk Construction in Springfield uh that prepared those three attachments showing the existing sidewalk system the sidewalk citizen service requests and socioeconomic Maps

3:04 uh the first prioritization is whether to proceed with one the original tent and replace the existing sidewalks in our Network or to construct new sidewalk to fill the missing gaps or three provide a combination of those two by rehabbing portions of the existing system and construct new sidewalks the second prioritization is where in Springfield shall we focus our efforts where should we construct these sidewalks um those are basically one historically excluded areas uh that you can see in the socioeconomic map attachment four I believe that's what it was um or two by prioritizing uh provided services such as schools Transit Transit routes in and around commercial areas downtown those types of things or three

3:51 focus on specific Services EG schools or for example schools or transit in those historically excluded areas um and then lastly whether or not we want to have adjacent property owner participation so thank you Ben Ben and I are here for a question you may have before we open up for questions let's sort of back up can you just go over what CMAC funding is you know where it comes from how we prioritize it certainly the the basic facts so CMAC funding congested mitigation and air quality comes from the Federal Highway Administration fund so it comes from the feds it's delivered to the state uh the Oregon Department of Transportation administers it and so

4:36 that congestion mitigation and air quality funds must go to specific projects that one either reduce condestion on in and around our uh roadway systems or to improve air quality um like dust mitigation like 28th Street best mitigation would have been a good CMAC candidate um that no that that helps that helps a ton just getting people to see that when we talked about cell 28 right that's where some of the money was coming from because of how the dust from an unpaved Road really impacts the school that's why we got at least that money right Cory I have lots of thoughts about this but I will try to be brief um I love this project that's probably no surprise that I'm just like yes let's do this I like the combination of doing

5:24 rehab and new sidewalks is just to stretch it and do as much as we possibly can with this um and I appreciate the sort of overlay with the service requests and the socioeconomics I think some of the other things and y'all are probably thinking about it too to just sort of as we think about prioritizing um schools yes but also are there neighborhoods where there are like essential services for people who are seniors or people who are disabled or um you know where most people walk to the grocery store I mean are there those neighborhoods where we would have an understanding where we would be able to really support that infrastructure in those sorts of places so I would just

6:10 say could we layer some additional possible use or not use in as we consider the priorities and I am for the sliding scale I like the fact that maybe some people would be able to help pay for the sidewalks as opposed to all being free or just a saying 50 or whatever I like the idea of like there'd be some negotiation of people like I would happily pay for Ada ramps in this neighborhood Victorian so I'm curious are you talking about potentially a residential areas like because my understanding has always been a sidewalks even though they belong to the city they're the responsibility of the property owner that lives in front of them is that not the case in Springfield no uh sidewalk maintenance and repair is uh part of the Springfield

6:56 development code the responsibility of the adjacent property owner okay so what are you what are you suggesting that we're going to do that in lieu of them the property owners actually taking care of the sidewalks so there's kind of two different methods in which sidewalks are are constructed new development so like when a subdivision site plan those types of things go in um and then at that point that is the adjacent property owner's responsibility uh the other way is if there are not existing sidewalks is to um what's it called again I always forget what I call it or what it's called a local improvement district now this is something the council could elect to do is Institute a local improvement district and go in and have that adjacent property owner pay for

7:41 their fair share of the sidewalk Ben might be able to answer a little bit more on the local Improvement District um so with this funding it's you know without with sidewalk rehab reconstruction not really being an approvable I mean it it could be it could be a significant list that you know staff goes out and demonstrates that yes people have chosen to not use the existing sidewalk Network because it is broken and deteriorated um with this I mean with this funding you have the option to try to incorporate local or adjacent property owner participation either through a local Improvement District or if it's existing sidewalk it does the

8:28 responsibility is supposed to fall on the adjacent landowner but primarily what we're talking about is building new so that we can fall under the requirements of this particular funds that sort of sounds like I mean that would be the easiest route with this money is to go out and construct new sidewalk okay thank you other questions Michelle I assume there's enough new sidewalk needs to use that funding in its entirety I I believe so I'm sure that's the case but just if there if there's a way to Corey's point to to incorporate some of this um like just I think about in my neighborhood alone the number of sidewalks that are in some pretty decent disrepair and upheaved and we've had the

9:13 cost of our you know we replaced ours and two others on our streets that replace theirs but in that whole area there are several that I just know they're never going to get repaired you know if the property owners just aren't going to be able to do it I think that there's some areas where something like an lid included um where this could work or been feeling sidewalk but there's others I think Ward five I think somewhere in there we have unapproved screws right now we're our roadside ditches and things like that it gets a little more tricky because now we're talking about you know our storm system and how are we going to manage that too so me personally I think that for infill like in to the magazine Bill ID we're looking at areas that

10:03 sidewalks in there because if we go beyond that we jump into a whole new level so I'm I'm supporting this I I like looking at it from two different approaches in regards to there's um I guess there's a fine line between repair and replacement so I guess if you replace something you've repaired it but um but I like the idea of cost sharing and you know sliding is fine I mean I think that you know 25 straight across would be easier to deal with but an lid I support I'm just so it seems like we can spread the impact of the money much further throughout the city in regards to partial pay and the property owner

10:50 partial pay if it's if it's a significant enough savings I think a lot of property owners would jump in on it I think especially if they realize how much liability they have if they don't I think it's an education piece with with the ability to do an lid and do some sidewalk replacement or even placement so thank you a big field in front of you or you can you can build a lot and I think if you can present it to where you can get the biggest bang for the buck and still stay within the guidelines I completely support it yeah I just I don't think I think sometimes people don't realize that it's their responsibility and that they can be sued if somebody trips on their sidewalk and so like you I agree with

11:35 um conservationary that you know that education and then them knowing that they're going to be actually paying less than they would have if they you know end up with a liability so yeah and I think that's all this is all good uh good feedback I think that one of the challenges that I see here is this is a million and a half spoke a lot and a little bit of money in the transportation world at the same time and it would be very easy to sort of spread it all to the wind and create a lot of you know administrative oversight right like that you know that we were required to do so um I would um my instinct is to sort of try to narrow it in some places so that we can get our arms around the administrative requirement right and actually sort of touch a neighborhood in a place where we can actually make a noticeable

12:20 improvement improvement in it um the other piece um question that I have well I guess the comment about the sliding scale um I'm open to that based on what the actual project plan looks like right there's neighborhoods in in this community that I would be in favor of going out and talking to the neighbors but about taking some of the uh and taking some of the costs there's neighborhoods that you just realistically you look at the neighborhood and they're not gonna you know they're just if we don't do something they're never ever going to have sidewalks right um and I think the other piece that is kind of critical here is uh the school list right is a really easy list because they're still you know there's still a lot of places around schools that are missing a block and a half a sidewalk right like you know there's one next to

13:06 Guy Lee you know you cited one in the you know in the list uh you know on you know I think it was Douglas Gardens that you had on your list so there's a very easy place that you can get the community around you know filling in filling in additional um sidewalk elements now the other thing I want you to consider is look we've got the fault like in the fall we're going to come back and talk about the street Bond right and one of the questions that I keep coming back to that I hear in in my into town all the time is that probably three blocks maybe Michelle between you know on South on Second Street before it's T Street where it's essentially like you know that there's no sidewalks that you've got a whole neighborhood that is sort of walking back down through the mud and uh you know

13:51 um you know like when we come to the street on it I'm gonna like bounce one of the places that I consistently get asked can we just fix that one place that touches all those homes um and there may be an opportunity to match that question with you know um with a little bit of sidewalks because it would meet the definition of this program with you know the conversation around hey can we actually get that road paved because you can lose a car in it right so I'm open to this conversation taken a little bit more they're kind of play out but I think I think that's awesome you know us knowing the bigger segments of that you know what what areas you're looking at would probably help a lot so one of the priorities is I was looking for direction from you on where

14:36 to focus our Network Insurance pretty good uh pretty consistently right like cool not about ugb not outside of City Limits um I think somebody may have to keep me honest if you live at in work by like whatever that road is that's coming off of that uh hidden homes development it's like South 51st Place right all that traffic comes and it's an unapproved Road um all the way up you know all the way up to Main Street and there's pedestrians on it all the time and fart

15:21 um Second Street and I know this sir that sounds extremely self-serving if I didn't live there I would still tell you that makes any sense but I got a whole bunch of people live on South side of it that entire Street does not have a single section of side one all the way up to the top of the hill it's storm sewer on both sides and I apologize I think there's a like one block in there that may but the rest is is uh there's cars been that have been lost in those ditches and there's no sidewalks and everybody on that entire street from Jesse Lane Park which is a block away from it um all along in the street in the Middle Street and all those young kids and the street itself is probably

16:06 [Music] um probably 17 feet maybe why yeah it's not very likely it's narrow but you're talking about no curbing better nothing yeah that's I understand with some of these like like South 51st also get things like that if we took a look at this one yeah I'm just trying to put it throw it back up in the wind so no and it's not exactly applicable to this so uh prioritization decision that I'm looking for are we replacing sidewalks are we going with that initial intent are we looking to do that or are we looking to do new sidewalk filling existing gaps I would I would tell you I

16:52 heard sliding scale um right like so again I'm worried about administrative overhead and then I'll let you guys jump in right like so I would say probably maybe 75-25 right like if you can you know new right like to make it a little bit sort of easier go ahead and yeah and and with the the ones that need repair where they're dangerous and I would say absolutely look at them with an lid so that way we can get to those and and the replacement or the new ones would be the area that you don't have one but if you have ones that are knowing that the property owners are responsible for those sidewalks that need repair that are a tripping Hazard or older folks can't even get past them I would say yeah for sure do those but

17:37 but look at him was an lid paying for part of it out of that that lump of money but letting giving the opportunity to landowners to pay for their partner if I was in I was an ID Department that is uh a little Beyond me and then also lid can be formed by the council and initiated or it can be formed um for a petition by the property owner so Property Owners can sign a petition bringing it to the council But ultimately it's the council's decision to form an LED properly investment is difficulty yeah but I mean going back the council can do it without property and where the council can decide who

18:23 initiate an Allied unss property owner regardless of patient or no condition and I can and that's why I think getting you know getting our kind of arms around with the potential Pro like project list is we could probably rattle off 50 million dollars of sidewalks that we needed right so okay so you covered are we doing prioritization versus you know new build versus rehab and I would tell you that if we can squeeze a little bit of what I'm hearing is if we could squeeze a little bit of rehab into there that's great but again understanding that you may look at that and go hey look you know it's going to take an act of Congress and you know dispensation from the Vatican to be able to get it done with these federal dollars then then we're okay kind of movement moving around a little bit what other else go ahead does this also include Ada ramps

19:09 so we've got a sidewalk it's it's okay condition but there's no Ada ramp um is that is that included it could potentially be included um cost of ADA ramps like pert intersection is about a hundred thousand dollars to do four ramps okay um yeah so it's it's okay it gets a little rough when you get into the adue Rams now we might encounter some situations where it's absolutely unavoidable and the Ada ramp has to be reconstructed but the idea is to do sidewalks yeah okay that's what I was curious thank you what other what other direction do you need yeah with the prioritization number one was new versus replaced and it sounds like we want to do a little bit of combination uh mostly focusing on new

19:54 rehab if we can so the second one is essentially where in Springfield do we want to focus uh there's that attachment three is the socioeconomic that shows um three four you know anywhere from one to four socioeconomic hardships which are you know minority populations elderly uh disabled and poverty um now out there just east of Bob Straub is uh like a four um four Factor there's up just north of Q Street um between essentially Fifth and Mohawk that has four uh and then there's a number of three Factor areas in town

20:39 that these are all you know have poverty elderly minority populations that live in them that might be financially burdened as it is um so we could focus our efforts on filling the gaps in those areas or we could focus on some sort of service like in and around schools around Transit routes around commercial areas around Parks so it's kind of what council would wish us to focus our efforts on of course so that's where I was going to go in you jumped in about that because I know that folks were talking about specific areas but I was looking at the maps and thinking you know for me looking at those high level areas like in Gateway and Q Street particularly like you think of how much

21:25 affordable housing is being built around Q Street and I know I'm one of the ones who's like we're going to eventually need to like develop the roads in that area too so would be from my perspective a priority to look at those areas areas three and four you know factors in there if we're going to start looking at prior and there are they're around schools and stuff too but also like we've done a lot of we're doing a lot of development in those areas and there's going to be a lot more people and um yeah you have better set months excuse me mayor good just wanted to interject um that also the city has the Ada transition plan that has some guidance about where sidewalks uh can go and that that can be integrated with this

22:10 information also to just be consistent with that ADA plan and make sure that we are consistent with that and update that and start connected with one of the categories there that you were talking Steve we have very limited Transit situations might be a Transit Corridor and we're going to have to do this except the way that we that's going to be that's going to be we're going to have to build that eventually we're going to have to build this in such a way that it's important and people have other card on my Master's Bill and uh but we had to be comfortable getting to the to that corner and very very little of that here I think my preference would be to stick with Services right stick with you know

22:56 because Q Street like reporting brings up a good point about the quality of history but it is you know on it is on a service line so it would be in scope if we sort of started with Services right like and if you think about what you know you know the ability um to make uh to sort of impact you know transport the transportation system there's still we still have a ton of gaps that are within like a quarter mile schools are on school property right so we can kind of get if we if we started by sort of focusing there we're going to hit some of those areas anyway um that that's going to get us you know in the right direction and probably get us to a place where a million and a half's a lot and a little bit of money at the same time right that we want people to feel the impact

23:50 so I'm hearing services schools Transit yup Citywide I I don't know how fast you can structure million and a half dollars right like so it blocks yeah so the experts so you're out there looking like you know we're here to guy but you really know where the need is and I think that that's you know part of our job as counselors is to trust you as staff to know where those areas are that are have the most need and that's my feeling anyway so if if you could make us a project list to look at right like we we can tell we can cross off you know things like the Douglas gardening one that was in the middle of this sounds like a great a great one the 15 feet or whatever it is they need a guide lead from a sidewalk perspective sounds like a great one right and there's like every

24:36 school's got that yeah that version of them so safe routes to school actually they keep a like an equity ex Excel sheet that ranks projects um and they have a number of sidewalk projects in and around town that we can pull from yeah so if if we could do the next step of a like if we could develop some list of projects that meet with the direction that we gave you and we can actually just look at it we could just say you know you know then we can give you some more more clear clear Direction than that yeah and then yeah the third prioritization is whether or not we want a Json property owner participation now an lad can take up to a year if not longer um which will delay the federal funding

25:23 and we have a certain cycle that we have to spend the federal funding now I'm not saying that we can't do it it's just it's it's a significant lift um if we want adjacent property owner participation yeah I remember when we did that led um Cherokee yeah and that was a that was a long drawn out process it was a pain but if there's any way it just seems not necessarily lid but something where we can come into simple agreements for the property owners saying okay but this is what's going to run here's some information this morning if you don't get it fixed it's very high liability we're willing to pick up this much tab whatever percentage is

26:10 comfortable and offer that to them they don't take it we move on to another sidewalk okay yeah because it right now with the way the economy is I would hate to think we were going to go in and tell people that we're going to do this and we're going to send you a bill like even if it's 25 yeah people are under the weight of the cost of stuff right now so heavily that I think that that would would think more there's a willingness on their part to chime in her to join in for that that's yeah different than saying we're doing it and we expect this from you too exactly so it's like enough to start with I mean if you can get to an actual list we'll be able to comment more or more specifically and do we want adjacent

26:55 property owner participation for new sidewalk and repair or just repair yes yes I think I think we're giving you a solid maybe right like it's you know as I think once you look start with the safe routes School list right start with the transit list and then and then see what comes out of that and then you know if in realistically if um you know if it is gonna if we look at it and it's just not going to happen right there's no sense in you know trying to trying to force this thing here and all I know is that the more participation we get from Property Owners that's further out this money is going to extend so however we can make that on my street we all would have been happy to participate at 25 as opposed to 100. so I think we

27:41 need to you know just ask ask that question but there are definitely not many neighborhoods that are going to say we just can't swing that if you extend that money a long ways yep okay right yeah we'll create a project list around schools and around Transit routes and we'll be back in the fall all right appreciate it thank you thank you all right I'm going to address I think or I'll go and see them actually we're doing a special regular Festival special regular session we're gonna lose spots the official and regulations

29:23 I'm going to call this special regular session to order with roll call mayor Van Gordon here councilor Weber here councilor Mo here councilor rodley here councilor Blackwell here councilor Doyle here councilor Pictionary here thank you please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge of the United States of America which is Chance one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all as we begin our meeting tonight there is one designated time for public testimony this evening from business uh from the audience if you're attending in person please complete the request to speak card located at the entrance of the city

30:09 council chambers and give it to the City Reporter if you're joining us online with a tablet smartphone or computer and wish to speak to either of those times please use the raise hand feature in Zoom the order of public testimony is as follows anyone in person in the council chambers and then anyone that is raised our hand their hand in zoom and Neil how many people are joining us tonight uh we have five attendees online and approximately 16 in the council chambers all right thank you uh first item please first item is the consent calendar I can make a motion to approve the consent calendar second

30:57 yes thank you motion passes six yeses zero knows next item please uh you have no public hearings today so the next item is business from the audience I don't have any cards uh here um is there anybody that's raising their hand on Zoom uh no hands on Zoom all right next item please any business from the city council go ahead I just wanted to comment that there was uh the training last week in City Hall was was very well put together and the PD did a great job your staff were amazing Chief and I think in the long run it's going to be extremely bad well I hope it's not very beneficial but it may very well be very beneficial for uh City staff so thank you for doing that and I'm sure that the staff really appreciates it

31:42 thank you anybody else all right next item please uh the next item is business from the city managers item one is Grant applications for housings housing there's two resolutions resolution number two a resolution in support of a Grant application seeking planning assistance from the Department of land conservation and development to assist with code requirements for housing in mixed use zoning districts and resolution number three a resolution in support of a Grant application seeking planning assistance from the Department of land conservation and development to assist with Community engagement to identify and address housing needs and Sandy Belson is here for this item good evening mayor and Council uh I'm your comprehensive planning manager and

32:28 I realize this isn't specifically to build housing as you've had on your previous agendas this is more about planning for housing and the regulations we have around what housing would be built so as you heard there are two resolutions in your packet tonight for your consideration to approve or not approve these would if you pass these give direction to staff to go ahead and apply for Grants to help fund the um planning involved in addressing these State mandated requirements so we are mandated to have clear and objective standards for

33:14 housing we did that um as part of the development code update for all of our residential districts but we have not yet done that for our mixed zoning districts and then we are also mandated to do a housing Capacity Analysis and housing production strategy and then because we receive Community Development block grant funds and are part of the home Consortium we do a Consolidated plan with Eugene so those three efforts are going to require public Outreach and there's more specifics particularly with the housing production strategy in terms of how we do that and who we engage and so the

34:00 second item here would be to how help fund the community outreach to support those planning efforts and these would be both applications would be submitted to the Department of land conservation and development they are due at the end of July so um that's what I can tell you I can ask I can answer questions perhaps if you have any are there any questions all right so uh the two questions I I had jotted down or really with all the requirements that are coming from down from the state could you give us a little bit of context as far as how much how much are we asking for how much more do we need right like some of these are

34:45 Big Ticket items and I don't think I in the packet I saw how much real money that we're asking for and if it meets all of the needs to meet all of the requirements from the state so I haven't um put together a budget for the requests as of yet let alone oh I mean I haven't even really done the work program part to be able to base the budget on it for these two um requests but more broadly um there is a lot of work and I was corresponding today with um staff from the Department of land conservation and development about the whole climate-friendly Equitable communities and specifically around the climate friendly areas um and so they're like how much are you

35:31 going to need for that and I'm like I haven't completely wrapped my mind around that that that the climate friendly area work would potentially intersect in both of these because climate friendly areas are going to be mixed use by nature and so our zoning districts are going to need to comply but there may be other changes that we also need to do to once we've identified those areas that need to be climate friendly what we need to do to meet the climate friendly Equitable communities rules for those and then there's also the whole engagement aspect the Equitable communities part of that and the displacement analysis that we have to do for climate friendly areas that could tie into all of this so it's a short answer I mean it's a long

36:17 answer to say I don't really um don't really have um a a good answer for you at this time but there's a lot of work um we do have staff that is continued to be supported by the arpa funds so we are we do have three positions um that would help us do some of this work so we're not and so we are looking at Consultants but we'd like to also just do a lot of this ourselves um so this work would be paying for the consultant portion is what is in my mind but that's not like I said I haven't done all that work to figure out the detail so um if if I when I when I think about these

37:02 dollars coming in right like you know one of the questions that I always you know I'm starting to thinking about is really we always want to position ourselves and uh so that we're getting money in to pay for Springfield staff to do this opposed to having planning regulations you know turn into we have to hire a bunch of Consultants to complete the work and I know yeah I know I'm preaching to the choir on that one um the other I guess the other question that when I think about cfx cfx bigger than a bread box it's Titanic size is housing production is the housing production work in the housing Capacity Analysis work is that bigger than a bread box as well like is that are these this is a mountain of work right so I'll try to answer both those

37:48 questions or respond to both of those so um we don't have staff capacity to do all that's in front of us and so that's why I'm looking at using this to pay for Consultants because we can't do it all ourselves um we are communication staff is already stretched I mean they really can't even provide the service that we need now um we get like half of a FTE for our division um so that's why I'm looking at probably needing consultant help on those Outreach efforts and also just to pay for some of the direct costs involved um and then on the code work I mean I don't think we have that's why for the Mixed

38:34 use code work I think it would be helpful to have a consultant to bring something to us for the housing Capacity Analysis we have a a really great GIS team that has um really shown how helpful they are through creating our comprehensive planning map and they really love sinking their teeth into those planning questions and using the gis to help so I think we have capacity in house to do the housing Pro the housing Capacity Analysis which is your buildable lands analysis and your housing needs and comparing those and seeing where we're coming up short so I think we can do a lot of that in-house with the staff we have have I answered

39:20 yeah yeah um okay and then I guess one and maybe this is a fall conversation I know you're working for the work plan and you know um in the in the question about how many ftes we have I really would love to at some point to come back and just kind of get our arms around like what's actually sort of coming up in in the why and the how and just get our sense of you know what's the strategy to get through three or four like huge complex planning elements um yeah like I know that that's not for this item but just sort of I just want to flag that for the fall instead of really talk about like how much work is actually in front of the planning staff right now all right I'm done I'll chill

40:12 I would like to make a motion to adopt resolution two and three or can I redo these separately Mary B well you do them separately that's what I thought if I can make a motion to approve resolution two second you know could you call a vote please yes counselor Weber yes counselor yes counselor rodley yes councilor Blackwell yes councilor Doyle absolutely and Council missionary yes thank you five yeses one absolutely zero no's motion passes like to make a motion to adopt resolution number three second yes thank you motion passes six yeses zero no's next item any other business from the city manager no further

40:58 business any business from the city attorney no business thank you all right I'm going to adjourn us and then I believe what time Ceta 6 20. all right we we are cruising right along good job AJ we are going back to the other room for Ceta hey Nancy on