Springfield City Council — September 25, 2023

0:04 I would call City Council work session to order with roll call. Mayor Van Gordon. Here. Councilor Webber. Here. Councilor Moe. Here. Councilor Rodley. Here. Councilor Blackwell. Here. Councilor Doyle. Here. And Councilor Pishioneri. Here. Thank you. All right. Thank you, everybody. We've got a couple items tonight. I just want to make an a quick announcement before we get started and acknowledge the passing of Airman Reinhardt, who was a Springfield resident in service to this country. I'm asking for a little bit of flexibility tonight. Her remains are on route back to the city of Springfield. We're tracking it. We think we're going to get done on time, but we may take a take a recess so that the council can join the join join the people along the route. So, with that, we have a couple of items. First item's the technology fee discussion,

0:49 which is Paschal. Yeah, thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council. Jeff Paschal, Community Development Director. And with me tonight, I have Josiah Broomfield, who is a management analyst in our group. And he's going to share all the cool things we've been doing with the tech fee cuz that's kind of where he's been taking the lead since I've been in the role for a year. Tonight, I'm going to cover just a little bit like in the in the materials, a little bit of the history, where we're at, and then Josiah is going to show you what we've been doing over the last couple of years. And then um then we'll jump into what's next. And then probably make it really quick or as quick as possible so that we can get into discussion and questions from the council. Um as outlined in the packet, um the

1:36 tech fee was put into place in 2006. Um the goal of the tech fee at that time was really just scanning, getting applications and permits online so that folks could search them and find them. That was We had a position that was funded through that. We funded um scanning materials. Um over time, technology changes. Um and so when changing with that, that position was eliminated. And then we started looking at different ways to expand our technology and the development center counters, customer service, and how do we do business. Um with that, we had brought in 2019, a list of projects was brought before the council. Some of those are itemized in the list of showing what's not done, what's done

2:23 um as part of attachment two. The other thing is is right after 2019, about a couple months after that, that's when COVID hit. And we kind of our focus shifted as I outlined, and really we spent some COVID money, or I mean some tech fee money on just getting equipment for folks to work online and get our development center counter open. It's kind of a best of both worlds. We were able to really push and get a lot of lot things online um and available to customers. And today, since that, with the tools we have put in place and everything we have done, about 80% of the traffic we see is strictly online. So, just um just under 20% of the applications come in in paper or over

3:09 the counter. So, our real our focus is really having to shift to catering to those folks. Um not exclusively, obviously, cuz we still do have folks who come to the counter seeking service and seeking and and getting questions answered. Um and so, with that, um outlined in attachment two kind of what we've done, and that's what Josiah is going to kind of walk you through. We have a PowerPoint. Um we did bring in the kiosk. It's back here. So, for break or whatever, you can play with it. It's pretty intuitive as far as touchscreen and all that other stuff. But right now, I'm just going to let Josiah kind of walk you through um things that he's been working on with the group and what we've been able to implement. Good evening. Um first uh the slide, you can see the kiosk is up there. We wanted to bring

3:54 that in to uh provide access to services, you know, through the pandemic um and beyond in case that ever happens again. Um, you can really do just about anything that one would need to do with the development center at the kiosk. You can apply for permits, you can scan documents, you can print applications, you can find all all of our information online. Uh you can even pick up the receiver and talk to talk to a live person uh right then and there. Um as you guys know, the uh office is closed on Mondays, but we are open for service and we see uh much higher, probably a tenfold usage increase on Mondays with the kiosk than on any other day. Um people come in and not realize that we're uh the office is closed. So, that's a

4:40 really good way for them to continue to be able to access those services. The next uh initiative that we have undertaken is implementing digital plan review. And that is going to streamline our review process and drastically reduce uh review times. Um we already see them going down. We have just uh been implementing it over the last month here and so now we're fully using it um and so far it's going going really well. It also allows us to communicate with the customers uh in a more direct way. We can auto-generate reports rather than a staff member compiling all the comments and everything and communicating that, it's just an automatic straight from the

5:26 review comments to a report that spits out for the customer. It's uh standardized and um uh really geared towards just the information that that people need. Uh again, we developed our own app uh with a vendor that feeds right into uh the database we use. It's called Accela is the permitting program and this provides an additional option to schedule inspections and we designed this with the intent of it being as simple as possible. So, if you know your permit number, great. If you don't, you know the first few numbers of your address, you can also find your permits and it's just a few simple clicks to get through to the end. This is something that has been reported to us as a big

6:14 issue. The The options that do exist are just either have to log in or there there are cumbersome in other ways. So, this really stripped it down and um made that much more simple. And we have that flyer on the right hand side you can see has a QR code and that takes you right to the inspection app. So, we have that at the front counter so people that are coming into the office can just walk away with it on their phone. As part of the kiosk implementation, we started designing an interface for it and realized that it would be better served on the internet as well. So, this is our new entrance to our website. It's really a wayfinding device that we created to make it as simple as possible to find

6:59 information. We really just wanted to put what people were asking for at the counter or on the phone front and center so it was easy to find and so we I think we developed 10 or 15 pages just to get to certain places. We also also added other features on here. You can go straight to our inspection app that I just talked about. You can You can see on the right hand side it says ask a planner. You can ask any of the trades or anybody a question online and you'll receive an email back about that. So, really just trying to lower the bar and provide whatever option makes sense to the customer to communicate with us and uh, sure that we're available.

7:46 Uh, as Jeff mentioned, the tech fee started off with scanning and we have come full circle and we are scanning again. Uh, we want to make sure we're uh, providing timely information to applicants and the community by getting those those applications available online. Uh, we are outsourcing it to a third party right now, which frees up staff time to do do the work um, to make development happen in the city. Um, and it's been a big boon for for those staff members that um, had had to been doing that. Next, we are uh, currently in development of internal and external dashboards. Um, we uh, partnered with a company to bring

8:31 all of our permitting data in-house. So, every night we get a full download of all our all 500,000 rows of data um, and get that that constant feed of information uh, and we're able to put it into a couple of key pieces of software that will um, spit back out uh, useful information for us. So, these internal dashboards are going to provide internal provide staff with um, the insights they need to make informed decisions. We'll be able to identify trends. We'll be able to uh, monitor metrics to make sure we're meeting our targets. Um, and it's going to uh, just make that data available um, to everybody internally who wants to wants to look at it, wants to know what's going on, wants to know what's happening

9:17 in the community. Um, and additionally, we're going to turn that around and make it available to the public as well. Uh, we've got a really great GIS team uh, that works with us and they are helping to develop this map and we're going to build uh, something like this out to provide as much useful information to developers as possible. We want them to know how close to services the the plot they're looking at is. Have Have there been any permits on there? Have you know, what's going on in the the neighboring community? So, you'll be able to use those filters at the top to kind of drill down onto the information that you want to know. Can I ask a quick question? Yes, please. Um does that also include as constructs like developers? Can they Can they get

10:02 access to as constructs the GIS data? We are currently in development and we'd love to incorporate great ideas like that, yeah. Yeah, where they like specifically have to sign up so you know who's actually accessing them, but yeah. Yeah, I think we have the whole range available to us with with these tools. Um that's a great idea. Uh but with all this, we just we're we're trying to remain nimble and take feedback as it comes in and be able to develop these tools over time. Um they are um tools that we have control over internally. So, we we are able to to uh be responsive to feedback um and create new applications as needed. I'll turn it back over to Jeff. Uh thank you. Um so, with that, that's what

10:48 we've been working on or what we have and some of these are always going to be a continued work in progress as we continue to develop those. That is one nice thing about having control of them in house and having the expertise in house as we can be more responsive. Um we were working on a couple other tools. The state has taken a few of those over from us. We're hopeful that they'll move those initiatives forward. Um one of the things I'll give to Cy credit to is one of the things they took over was they didn't realize that things could be done with a cell of it that were that they we discovered or Cy discovered with working with a developer that could be which would be really helpful for those um developers on the outside in getting access and applying for permits. And so, we're really hopeful the state's looking

11:33 at that and trying to planning to develop that on their time frame. For everybody who's using Accela, so that's um one of the future things. And then looking ahead at other future um items, again, always looking at all of the tools that are available in Accela. One of the things I is DigiPlan, that that digital plan review, but continuing to look at the other tools that are available and how do we become more efficient internally. I know that sometimes that's not always as obvious to the applicant um when they come in of what's going on behind the scenes, but when we just shorten our review times with the staff we do have, that obviously um translates to um costs on the developer side on how soon they can start their projects or when they can count on getting permits. Um

12:19 another thing um as the council's talked about fees, planning fees, is implementing um a software tool for time tracking so that when we're talking about fees, that we know how much time it takes to process a permit. How how long does it take a planner to process an annexation permit or a site plan so that we can be more responsive and have better data when we're talking about things so we can right-size those. Um the next is evaluating staffing gaps. With some of these online tools, we do have folks who come in who still want to turn in paper applications. Well, our staff staff are taking those paper applications anyway and turning them into digital to get them into the system. And so, is there you know, are there staffing needs to have somebody who's there who's responsive just to help those folks learn and and have the ability to use

13:05 those tools. And then obviously, as you've seen, we have a lot of ways that we can go with our website to keep improving and always taking that feedback. So, those are just some of the ideas that we are looking at moving forward. And with that, I think we're ready to open it up for questions or Are there Victoria? I was waiting to see if anybody had any. So, do we have staff working from home during the pandemic? And was was there money from the tech fee that bought equipment like Okay. Some and then obviously we were reimbursed for some of it through the government funds. So, we initially were able to initiate a lot of those. That's why I think you see that the the the the reserve didn't drop as much. We may have initially used funds to purchase some of the monitors, some of the equipment to

13:50 work from home and then were reimbursed through ARPA funds or other federal funds that came through as part of the pandemic. of the people still working from home or did you everyone be Was everyone required to come back? We we have we do have several telework agreements on Mondays even though there still are quite a few staff that are in. A lot of the staff who work in the front counter or in that development center working remote on Mondays when we're closed. When the counter's closed, however, they're available by phone. But for the most part, anybody who's working in the development center is usually there at least four days a week. So, we don't have a lot of folks working remote. There's a few days here or there where a couple of folks are, but for the most part if they're in that customer service role and have responsibility, they're in the office. Okay, I was mostly thinking about the equipment that was purchased for that

14:37 for people who were working from home and then now it's you just still have that as an excess of it. Yeah, cuz one of the things that we found is useful with that Digiplan is we bought very large monitors so that you can see a full-size D size For those who know, a 40 a 32-in by two-foot sheet, you can see a full sheet on a page so you don't have to pan around at 100% scale. So, rather than trying to zoom in and pan around and see everything, um which is a nightmare as a plan reviewer and it's hard, um we have full-size monitors for those folks doing that. As a plan reviewer, I can appreciate it. Um and then my last question is it's the the tech fee's like 4 and 1/2%, right? Okay. It's five. Are we finding that that's enough? I know that Eugene I think charges is nine and so I'm just

15:23 wondering if you're I think Eugene is called an admin fee at the That's why I was saying that. They might have a different name but Yeah, so ours is a tech fee and I I think we've really just kind of focused on the technology piece of it. There are conversations on you know, what other you're trying to broaden that out but for the most part when when we use the tech fee, we're focusing on technology and um and expenses from the initiatives that can improve that customer service through the development center. So in essence, you know, what what applications are is that tech fee attached to? What can we do to improve how folks apply and how we conduct and and issue those permits. You know, I understand that but I'm also thinking that you're you you are talking about people that have to take those

16:09 apps over the counter and people that are having to do scanning now that we're outsourcing and that type of thing. So it does kind of seem like it it involves administration as well. So it's just something I I mean I'm just saying I would entertain the idea of those kind of being one of the same and maybe And I think that's where we're looking at staffing apps. Are there is there staff where it's legitimate that they are tied into that technology in in that kind of world? I think we're open to that too. It's just making sure that we're looking at it appropriately. I appreciate the the information. Thank you. Um thank you for this and I think it it mentioned in the future initiatives around time tracking software which I thought was going to be different than it is but I think that's great to figure

16:54 out how long it's actually taking people to do the work but I'm curious since implementing the kiosk if in any way we're tracking how long it takes for things to move through the process cuz I know that that's one of the feedback that I get from folks in public like this took too long or this didn't take very long. Is I'm curious if we're collecting any baseline data to see if we can you know, how we keep improving on that. Yeah, the initiative I talked about about internal dashboards is so we brought in all the permitting data. So I know every moment that somebody clicked the clicked the mouse to move it to the next status or everything. So we're going to be able to develop tools where we can see that. We'll be able to see anomalies that happen that this this has been waiting for x amount of days. Somebody

17:40 gets a red flag about it. We can figure out why that's why that's been waiting. And so we're really going to be able to get our finger on the pulse. Um with that data and greater. Anybody else? Hi. How you doing? Excuse me. So I've got a couple things. Well, first a statement first is that we created the tech fee. We the the council said we will do a tech fee conditionally. The condition was that it was to assist us to help technologically advance the efficiencies for developers to come in and save time and be direct benefit to the developers. Is

18:26 And so we also were clear thought we were that that fee is not to go towards what we would normally city funds would be used for operational and for administration etc. etc. That that was the conditions which they were put. And so there's a lot of back and forth and a lot of drop balls and a lot of whatever. And it's always been hard to get a a handle on. So and I and I can appreciate what you know, what Jeff is saying too and what you're saying too as far as administratively speaking. Um it's something where we would need to redefine what the purpose is so we can make that known to the users that are the ones that are paying. And that's not going to

19:13 be Well, that's not going to be an easy sell. Um that all being said, it doesn't mean I am against looking at that, but I I think that we we owe some explanations or at least some background data for the for the developers. For example, um how does Laserfiche collection or copying directly affect developers? Directly benefit developers? Does not the Laserfiche occur post product? So, that to me that's a tough one cuz I struggle even using Laserfiche on my own cuz especially as technologies changed, I I would say back when it was first implemented in 2006, it was really

19:59 important for them to be able to electronically get their permit. You know, they can see it, they can grab it without coming in the counter, doing whatever. Um today, I and Josiah probably can speak more to this from what he's hearing. Um most folks want more of those tools that you're seeing up there, which we're developing, which is the did the ability to log in and schedule their inspection. Um one of the things with Josiah being able to see this data, and eventually maybe we can start making some of this where they can see that. Where is my permit sitting? Whose desk is it sitting on? What is it waiting for? That's what we hear today. So, to answer your question, I think that's where in that in my what I've described is times have changed from where we've come technologically to where Yeah, at a point time Laserfiche may have been that

20:45 answer in 2006. Today, what we're hearing is we want real-time information, and we're trying to figure out how to do that. And one of the things Josiah was working on that the state kind of took over was that kind of real-time. They're like, "Wow, I don't like The way I describe it is like, "Wow, we didn't realize you could break a cell that way or break into a cell to get information and bring it into the city and kind of share that. And they're like, "Whoa, wait a minute. We're going to take this over." And so, that's what we're hearing is we want real-time information. How long is it taking? Where is my permit at? When am I going to get it? So, that that's directly relative and acquired through the Laserfiche operating department Laserfiche function. No, we're I mean, Laserfiche now is a warehouse of Yeah, but no. Well, Laserfiche now, the way I look at

21:30 Laserfiche is it's a warehouse of information. It it's just a file folder. What we're looking at technologically is actually developing tools that are more of that real-time. The you know, the the digital plan review. How can we shorten time frames for review? You know, Zach question. Why does it take 3 weeks, 4 weeks to get a permit review? And well, it's because it now with digital plan review, we can do reviews concurrently rather than consecutively. This person reviews it, and I'm going to go set it on this person, and you know, it doesn't have to go through planning, engineering, building. Everybody can review same time. The building reviewer collects all of those things. They don't have to transcribe all of it. It's just digital, and the developer can see that or the applicant. So,

22:15 back to Laserfiche, Laserfiche and what you're saying is it used to be a way in which to take images and store it. And you're saying currently it's not a storage tool per se, but it is a hub of which other people can access active permits. They're different. So, I mean, Laserfiche, we're still using Laserfiche. I think there still is a value in getting all our back scanning, which we're doing, because if somebody wants to historically go find a permit from a address, we have that right now. They may not all be online. So, there is a value to the historical warehouse of that information and to be able to pull past permits. Really, what

23:01 we're talking about now are different tools from Laserfiche. They're not It's not the warehouse piece. It's It's the actual technology of how a permit gets through and how do we track that permit? So, then I'm still It sounds like you're still describing two different things. At least I'm hearing it two different ways. And I'm just trying to get an understanding. I'm not opposing what you're saying, but I want a clearer understanding so I'm more comfortable moving forward with our tech thing we got going. So, you're saying that it scans permits, you can go back and look at old permits. How does that help a developer for today? Well, if they need to know So, if somebody if if you're looking at an address and you want to know what's been done. And so, if I, you know, rehab,

23:48 remodel, okay, so I want to pull up It's more somebody's purchasing a house, they want to look at that, you know, or or a place commercially. They want to find old permits and what was done, were they done, you know, um we've had one recently where there was some discrepancy on permits. Being able to look at those historical building permits, do they exist? Today, where we're moving for technology fee and ability to better serve the customer is a different to is different tools than Laserfiche. Then that that's what you're So, you're seeing that. And so, it's still technology, it still falls, you know, in my view, falls under the technology fee. It's just we're advancing to different tools that we are hearing that the customer wants.

24:33 So, so, then I'm looking at your proposals we're running up to $100,000 a year for Laserfiche services. I'm trying to to grasp the efficacy of that amount of money of of what we're collecting from developers. Are they getting a hundred grand worth of benefit, or is it more for us? I would say both. And and I can't predict who needs to see the historical data, right? Whether it's the developer or whether it's the city. I would say we need to keep the records, all right? So, that's where I would look at that and and I I question the amount of money going out of the technical technology fee. And getting able to better use that money for things like we're talking

25:18 about instead of looking at raising it, looking at okay, are we better are we better spending it? That's my opinion. So, second is that we talked about and and Alfredo brought up on Mondays we're closed, so to speak. Closed because we have no bodies here. Is that people like bodies? And I'm trying to figure out why why are we do not have staff there on Mondays? And your colleague was saying that we're super busy on Mondays, which would you're not you're not saying that? Oh, I I was saying that the kiosk gets a lot more interactions because there's nobody there. They are still able to access those services. Okay, so it gets busy because there's nobody there at the office.

26:04 And and that makes sense because if you had nobody there Monday through Friday, it would be super busy. That's just trade-off. So, I'm just trying to see if on the in the we're talking about people still working at home and I would incur and I think that we're beyond that and I think that the office should be open Monday through Friday for for our customers coming in and they should be able to walk in on any Monday and walk up to a person say, "I want to do this." as opposed to you trying to navigate a kiosk. Even though I like the kiosk, I mean I do and it's like I just don't want to do that in any way people coming in and wanting to come in and get some business done, that's all. Um

26:50 The that's what I want to question with the comment. it. We're we're going to jump to Nancy first and then we'll come to Steve. I just wanted to respond to Council Pischnotte's concerns about access on Mondays. Um so we made an administrator determination around workflow. We I I think I shared with Council that we have very short staffing levels and so there's a lot of administrative work that needs to happen in this department and so uh I made kind of a help a trade-off decision so that the the staff could focus on getting some of that administrative work done on Mondays. If people still want to access the counter, they can still go to the kiosk, they can pick up the phone, it rings into the permit center, there's somebody there

27:35 that's about available and I think that you know, this is some of the trade-off decisions you have to make when you have very lean staffing and not a lot of ability to do some of these administrative tasks. You have to physically carve out time to do it. How many positions are we open? I mean how many positions aren't filled? It's it's not so much a matter of positions that aren't filled but what what we're physically able to pay. I could I could fill up this city hall with people if I could hire them. You know, that's the other part is just getting you know, having enough people that to hire but we run a very lean city. And I I would say we we're open. We're open on Mondays. So the counter's physically closed but we are open. So we're taking phone calls.

28:22 Some of our staff set appointments ahead of time so we're open by appointment. Staff are available if need be and so we are open. It's not that we're closed, we're just open in a different model and appreciating what Nancy's saying and in that administrative time, it takes time for staff to review these applications and write these staff reports and get these out and one of the things that we've been able to do through efficiencies of of them that one day a week to really focus and not have front counter duty to answer questions because there times that our counter can be busy and people are like you just get back to your seat next thing you know you're called back up there you just don't have time to work on that staff report that decision and so I think that's helped us on some of our turnaround times by giving him that one

29:07 day where maybe they do have to answer the phone and I bet you there are days where they get enough calls that they don't get much done but talking on the phone but I will tell you it it does help our help our staff be able to focus and get those staff reports turned around. Thank you. Steve. Um laser fish is obsolete. The digital data that we collect where we're going to store it? Where's it going to be stored and how accessible will it be in the future? That's a lot of bits. Everybody's doing it out here. Where's it all going? Laser fish. Yeah, I wouldn't say it's laser fish but it is a digital warehouse and we're storing all the information. It it helps us not have as much paper because if we have it electronically then we don't have files and files of

29:52 paper that we're trying and it's and it's quicker to search. It's the same thing you can plug in your address and it pulls up once all the stuff is scanned in there you can still find all of the stuff and see the decisions and reports. So there is a value it's just I think in today's customer service world it's not what they're looking for they're looking for more of these other tools that we're developing. This new stuff we're collecting right now how accessible will that be in the future? That's what we're working on. So we are you you saw the dashboard and information and and all the time you know that's what we're challenging ourselves and and and the tools to see how much transparency and how much of that information we can be delivering on the outside. At least there's more information internally so even the staff

30:37 have found using the digital tools and the web page really quick and when they're helping customers and they're looking for information, but we will always be looking on how we can turn that around and what we can make public and what how and how powerful the tools are. What about 5 years from now? I want to access it. I can't predict. I'm sorry. I can't Yeah, I can't predict. I know The world has changed a whole lot. Exactly. I come from the computer world, I know. So, yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of information out there and I don't know where it's all going to be stored somewhere. Thanks for your labor. I think that I'll explain that that answers some of the the that I had, right? Especially around this laser fish conversation. I know it's a pretty technical piece to it. Is what's the plan to sort of retire

31:23 technology and keep migrating to uh the most, I don't know, up-to-date customer-friendly like do very like when I read the packet, it felt very practical and I was looking for the sort of strategic theme there that as technology ages, we should be sort of retiring and moving sort of to the next thing. I appreciate that. Um I think the one thing is is you we have to our package we use is a seller. I don't see us moving to a different package and so we're kind of on that state model. So, we're kind of in that world and so I think our our strategic plan is to keep evaluating and staying in tune to what the state is. I mean, I've been, you know, asking the question because do are there user group meetings so that we can

32:09 kind of get more um folks involved from other cities and other agencies for using the software to put more pressure on the state to, you know, move faster on some of these things that we are seeing that we need and so we're kind of stuck in that model, but that's where our strategy has been looking forward to. So, I do appreciate that, but yeah, within the construct of the software we're using, we're kind of stuck there. Um Do you want to jump in? I just wanted to say that this is kind of a an issue city wide. I mean something that we've certainly talked about in our office with respect to the board's materials and the things that we need to retain as public records. And you know, we have a lot of physical records. And you know, there is a cost you can you can join the state's program to have that be imaged and stored

32:54 through the state. And so that's one avenue we're exploring, but you know, I think that is overall a city wide discussion we need to have. Yeah. It's money. I know if we just had more of it, right? So a couple of the pieces of feedback that I had, you know, understanding again how long that turnaround time is, right? Especially since the codes changed and right and it like that would be a very good story to be able to tell tell the development community and the community at large about how we continue to be open for business. I did hear like I was really happy with sort of the theme that I heard around inventory management, right? There's a whole science behind understanding where a piece of work is, who has it, how do we move it forward.

33:40 And just hearing that sort of theme show up in your presentation and and through the presentation made me made me feel really good. But more broadly I this is a constant I don't know area that we always are looking for more information about and just understanding a really good memo annually about what we're spending and and look I guess how hardened the overall program, right? Like you know, where where are we going in five years, right? What are some of the rules we talked about four or five different things that we remember when when we installed this. Just understanding what the four or five boundaries that we put put in place around where this money can be used. And then more broadly like what are the what are the policy decisions that we

34:26 actually can make around around this money I think would be really helpful. You've heard some of that pop up a couple of times um in in the conversation. This is the perfect This is a good first draft. And then once it if we harden it just a little bit more and understand where where what we're trying to do from a value perspective for that development community, out of that I think it's going to fall four or five kind of five-year decisions that that that we need to make around around this money and how it's being invested. I think what help me help Excuse me, it'd be very helpful is that I'm it seems like we have the technology to where we can find in different categories of what types of permits are

35:12 issued. If we can see average turnaround dates or times or days or hours, however you break it down. Turnaround time on application to issuance. And then talk about how we can, you know, if we need to charge more money to do things we want to do, I would like to see the outcomes and see along all those categories how much they were shortened by to justify or at least projected to justify any taking of any more money. If we can't decrease those times, then I absolutely can't support it. But if we can decrease those turnaround times, then I'd be all over it.

35:58 I guess that would be to me would be the best scale to see whether or not it's successful or we're actually helping people that are developing. Thanks. I I I didn't know that people actually worked in Laserfiche. I just thought that it was a storage place cuz it is so clunky and so cumbersome that the idea of developers having to work through that is just is surprising to me. Um, the other thing about Laserfiche is if it's if it's done, I don't know how the city of Springfield does it, but it's good to have records retention dates, too. So, that way you know when it's time to get rid of stuff. And and so, it helps in the long run of, you know, stacks and boxes and boxes of paper and what have you. And when I talked about the fee increase and what have you, I think in my mind I was also projecting

36:45 into the discussions that we've had about the the fees in general, right? And how maybe some of that has been um sort of absorbed by those fees. So, if we reduce those fees, then that that work still needs to get done. And so, that's where I kind of wanted to have that conversation going. It came to not necessarily like, "Yeah, we need to add another 5%," but if we're reducing over here and 5% of that was was, you know, built in to that work, and they're not getting that anymore from that plan fee, then maybe the admin fee is where it needs to go. So. Okay, I have two. laser fish. More things before you wrap up, because I know we've thrown out a lot of different ideas at you. Um Time tracking software, um I'll give you

37:30 some technical advice here. It's very they is very easy to find time tracking software. It's very hard to find good time tracking software, and I'm just given the size of your work group here, you know, I'm conscientious to the fact that, you know, being getting you can build a lot of, I don't know, technical debt or overhead debt by if you choose poorly there. And then lastly, I think that that question around the closures on Monday, look, I've got I've got no issues about what we're doing. You know, I'm I'm I've been a teleworker for longer than most people who even dreamed of teleworkers. So, like I've got few concerns there, but find a different way to describe it, because every time we talk about this, right? It's we're

38:15 closed, but we're half open, but but you can have scheduled appointment. It just gets really it gets really murky, you know, opposed to a, you know, we are open these different ways, right? Yeah, just keep working on that story because I don't know that it ever resonates and I I don't know about everybody else, but I have to really sit and think about what we're doing to really see how how the public's able to access services on Monday. Anybody else? All right. Thank you both. Uh you were really good discussion.

39:09 I was talking to him about Ritz crackers. Ritz crackers? Yeah, cheese cheese Ritz crackers are my favorite kind of cracker. One of my favorites. Hi, Ben. Hi, how are you? We have some technical difficulties to get hooked up here. I think everybody was pretty excited for this discussion. I'm glad. I'm glad. Um we can start while Ben gets things hooked up here. Um so, good evening, Mayor and Council. Um for those of you that may not know, I know I was here previously, um but I am Christie Preuss, I'm the Capital Engineering Manager here at the city and this is Ben Preuss, and he's um an Operations Manager. So,

39:54 we're here to talk about um a potential bond package. I know that April 3rd, uh Jeff and Ben came to talk about uh initially to talk about the potential of putting this together and so, we were tasked to come up with an initial set of streets for you all to look at. I would like to back up for 1 second. Um I know that in the council meeting there was a request to find out um what are the updates on some of our projects. So, quickly go through that. Um I know that one of our favorite projects, Mill Street, that folks want to have reconstructed, we are going full steam ahead as we have from the beginning.

40:39 And um everything is in line, right of way is on track, everything's going. So, um we will be going out to bid um in '24. Um that is going to be closer to August. The um the utilities need to get out there, so there will be work in April, starting in April. So, shovels will be going. Um the other project that folks ask a lot about is the 42nd Street project um from IP to Marcola. And so, that we really sped as fast as humanly possible, got a consultant on board in design, and so we are on track to go out to bid mid-May.

41:25 So, we'll be um in construction there as well. Um for those that are not aware or just became aware, we do have a website that we created not too long ago that has all of our construction projects on there, whether they're in design, in construction, or completed um in the last, you know, since 2017. And that's our current construction projects webpage. Um so, all all of those are on there. Every single project has its own web web page, so it has all the updates, all the background information. We also put on there all of the public outreach that we do. So, if we send a letter, it'll be on there. So, everything since Franklin Boulevard, that's what we've been doing,

42:11 so everybody knows um how much we've reached out to focus on specific projects. Um So, when we started taking a look at a potential list, we really wanted to spread the projects out so that there are projects in each ward. We focused on $20 million, um and then we took a look at our database to to figure out the condition of the roads. Our focus was on preservation. So, we didn't focus on full reconstruction projects so that we could try to preserve these before they get to that point where it's extremely expensive, like Mill Street.

42:58 Um so, we did, however, put some projects down here on in the memo with price tags for reconstruction projects, um because I know that there are some um that have been brought up a lot by citizens, um and that would be Fairview is a common one from Tamarack to Centennial, Rainbow from D to Centennial, um and then Mohawk, the westbound ramp to Marcola, and just really that intersection as a whole that is you know, right up Marcola Sorry. Mohawk 19th intersection, right there. That's a really bad location full reconstruct all around. So,

43:43 uh I wanted to include those to see so that you can see those price um those costs for that. So, um since we don't have a huge amount of time, um I thought that we would just dig right in. Um so, we did come up with a full list, but then narrowed it down. And so, you'll see that full list in table one, and then um the narrow down table three and then the recommended action. Um the first one for for Lowe Road, the reason why we really chose that one from i-5 to Pioneer Parkway or Parkway roundabout, sorry, is that we're trying to catch it before a full

44:28 reconstruction. It it does take a good chunk of the of the money, but that is the reason why that one is more heavy than some of the other areas. Um so, then we went down to so that was Ward 1, Ward 2, Aspen Street from Tamarack to Centennial. And then that is a minor collector in a residential area. I know that there was a some talk about wanting to look in some residential areas as well as the arterials and major collectors. Um and then also it is in front of Centennial Elementary School, um which is a big big reason. Um we do have a significant number of complaints for that location.

45:13 Um so, then Ward 3, we narrowed it down to G Street, which is a major collector and it's on the south side of McKenzie-Willamette Hospital, also in a residential area. Um we do get complaints on that one as well. Well, I'm just going to say we get complaints on most of these. Some are heavier than others. Um so, Ward 4, 36th Street from Main to Commercial. That's a minor collector serving a lot of different areas, commercial, residential, and industrial. Uh the surface is delaminating and so needs to be over overlaid as well before it goes to full reconstruct. Um you

45:58 know, a lot of times on these streets, folks will say, "Well, that street doesn't look that that bad." But, once we really dig down and we really analyze these streets, um that normally that's too late. Once you really see that a street looks bad, it's it's usually too late and needs a reconstruction. So, um So, Ward 5, Daisy Daisy Street from 51st to Bob Straub, we did the first phase um that you can see in yellow up there. And so, we really we have Actually, that's not Sorry, that's not the first phase. The first phase was from 42nd to 51st. So, we were wanting to

46:43 continue this project. We have We have been asked, "Why aren't you finishing this? Why are you moving on to other projects?" So, that is one reason why we wanted really get this piece of it done. And then, um Ward 6, 58th Street Main to the roundabout, um that is right in front of Thurston High School, lots of traffic. It's a residential area as well. So, water's doing some work there um on the south end right around Main Street. So, um they are doing a little bit of work, but for that, we could continue and get that road all complete. So, um we can just start the discussion.

47:29 And and like I said, that was just a starting point to get us talking and moving. And so, we will not be offended by any stretch of the imagination um regarding any comments or suggestions. Right. But, for right now, you the list you that you brought us sort of maximized for the dollars, maximized total miles that we could preserve. Yes. Okay. Yes. All right, who wants the quarry? So, I have opinions about things. I'm here Talk to me about G Street, please. Um and what sort of complaints you get cuz I drive that probably every day and I'm just thinking about, you know, there's multiple

48:14 schools along there, Willamette is along there, the hospital. And again, I'm like I drive that and of other roads that I drive, that's not as you know, that wouldn't be at the top of my list. And so I'm just thinking about you know, what it what is the the reasoning or the methodology around G Street? G For G Street, I'll let Ben talk as well because he has to maintain these roads and I try to fix them before he has to maintain them. Um so if you do want to elaborate going to answer that question. I would say that uh the goal would be to be able to preserve the roads before we start getting all the complaints. So I think that your as far as G Street goes, you're probably accurate on that that we don't get as many calls on it. Christy we're actually

49:00 talking about it last week to try and collect the data operations has. Um we don't have a really good mechanism to do that yet on um seeing what kind of call volumes per specific street comes in but we're almost there. We're really uh close with our GIS group to be able to get that information. Um so G Street is one that when we go out to our street survey biannually it Yeah, we've got a field crew out there that's inspecting it. So they're looking for things like uh raveling, cracking, delamination, and that sort of thing. So that's why you would see the street show up as yellow because it's probably got heavier cracking. It's got surface wear. Um might have some tire ready a little bit but for the most part, substructure of

49:46 the street is still in good condition and it's the optimum time to go in, grind off the surface, and pave it back. Of course, there's all the ADA stuff that comes in with that, but um so you're probably right on that that we wouldn't get as many complaints with G Street. Okay. Um and and I can't hog all the money, but the Mohawk Q Street Marcola Road intersection is I I realize that up here I think it was like a minor whatever y'all called it cuz it was on the list, but didn't make the final cut. Um and I just think that that's again, I'm not the boss of the world, but in terms of just thinking about the development that's happening out there at Marcola Meadows, the traffic

50:31 situations, you know, we've paved all the way up Mohawk and that's just a place of stuff and transformation. So I would just I advocate a little bit for not taking that off the list cuz I think that's a key area. The other thing that's not even on the list, um so you'd be like just do with it what you will, is 21st, which is between Beth and Mine's Ward, and that is not in great shape and I think that gets more and more traffic just in the time that I have lived in that neighborhood. I've seen more and more traffic as a throughway for that. And if you go down there, you'll see just how not great shape that is. So those are just the like I mean, if I was to get if I was in charge of the world and I was to say, "What would we do in Ward 3?" G Street

51:16 wasn't even on my radar and I drive it every day, but I could see with like ADA improvements along there with the schools and the Catholic Community Services there and lots of things, that could be intriguing, but also like is that is that more important than say Q Street and Marcola and Mohawk? I don't know, but I'm open to other views and I'm only going to take hard stances on Ward 3. So I should mention the intersection itself. We basically with all of the development that has happened, it is really at capacity. That signal is really at capacity. So, what we would be looking at is what is the best traffic control device to be at that location.

52:01 And a roundabout is a potential. You know, we haven't analyzed it, but that is a potential to be able to get a lot more traffic through and more safely. So, it is a reconstruct for that intersection. And so, that's why I'm a little hesitant to do any reconstruction, you know, full reconstruction coming up to the intersection because if we were to do a roundabout, we would have to pull back a lot of that that we would have constructed. And I don't want to waste our our money in that in that manner. So, that intersection itself, we should probably be looking at as well. So, hypothetically, when you look at that intersection, how much is that is that project going

52:49 to cost? Cuz I know it's not on the list. You kind of got to the intersection and sort of sort of stopped. But, you know, we see different arms to that intersection would be a cool 500,000 and you'll get it done? No. Unfortunately, the cost of concrete has gone up. The cost of everything, obviously, has gone up. So, um we would have to analyze it to see, you know, would it be a multi-lane roundabout at all legs, two legs? You know, would it be single-lane? All More than likely, it's going to have some elements of a multi-lane. Much, much smaller than what's out at Franklin. Um but, our next phase will actually tell us a little bit more about the costs of roundabouts. Um oh, which sorry, I backtrack a little bit. We just found

53:34 out that we did get the federal grant agreement for um the Franklin um intersection at Mississippi. So, we will be going full steam ahead on that as well. Um okay, so if we're just trying to think about it, right? Like and I know it's it gets kind of It's going to be more millions. Yeah, I know. I know. I'm I I was telling a joke about the 500,000 bees. Um Right? Is it like 15 million? Like No. Um so, Franklin Boulevard phase one, that entire project with right of all the right away acquisition, everything was more around 15. Okay. Okay, so can you give us maybe a ballpark for that? Because I know there's a lot of people that are interested in that and we were not holding you to any any hard any hard

54:19 numbers here, but it would be another 2 million for the intersection. How much? Yeah, I would say probably two, three. Okay. Roughly. But costs keep going up and up and you know I like my initial answer better. I do too. Yeah, okay. It used to cost that much. That's Yes. Um So, 36th Street for uh Ward 4, I can I I drove down and I see how that would have made the list and and maybe you kind of already answered um my question in a way on the street that I had my my eyes on and one that I hear a lot about over where I live and I drive on and that is commercial to 35th. That whole area and maybe that's looking at one of those that's kind of past

55:05 just So, we looked at that today and the estimate is around $8 million um to do the whole stretch. And you know, keep in mind, too, when we did these estimates, we did it from, you know, this point to this point. It doesn't mean that we can't truncate it. Truncate things, too. So, that's always an option. I just see that that's heavily traveled and pedestrians as well and you know, it used to get to Olympic and and then to hook um but it's industrial whatever out to Maine and it's just you know to avoid 42nd and Yeah. It's just heavily traveled and it's The other piece of it that is Yeah, no curb and gutter, no drainage,

55:52 no sidewalks. So, that would definitely be something that we would really need to talk about as far as would we want to do more just pavement preservation? What would the requirements need to be? Would we need to put in a sidewalk? Would we need to do drainage? Um then the price tag might start. That's what I need to look for, but as far as doing the pavement preservation, that's more around 8. That whole stretch. And then I'm glad you brought up 21st. I think that's another one to take a peek at and I definitely agree with um Mohawk the the intersection there, especially with the the new development and something that that's one that I think I get asked once a week. Is something ever going to happen with that intersection?

56:37 I mean, people are definitely asking about that intersection. Thank you. Yes. All right, Steve. We're just going to keep working down the list and get people's first round of comments down. Uh the Harlow I-5 Parkway roundabout, why is that on the list? So, that is on the list because we're trying to preserve it before it heads into full reconstruction. That's That would be a very expensive full reconstruct. So, that That's what I was referring to at the very beginning is that yeah, that takes a huge chunk of this. Um and granted like I said before, it doesn't mean you can't truncate it, but we are really trying to capture that before it goes into a full reconstruct. Yeah, that's why may it I didn't realize until we got here, but it

57:22 doesn't show up on this particular map because it's um it was a major collector and we were originally looking at minor collectors. Um we my crew crack seal just three about two or three years ago and it's got inch wide cracks that go down probably near the surface now, but there's no real major settling in it. So we went a little sidetrack on some of these trying to figure out some roads and we've chosen Marlow as one of those roads for word one with chunky. Sorry. To cut the project into a smaller segment.

58:07 Do you have any other comments, Steve? No, I It's not high on my list. But of course it looks good. I understand the engineering department but there's others I think need worse. No. So yeah, just some of the same questions I had have already been answered and kind of answered, but in response to Councilman Rowe, I I had the same question. Why Harlow? Because I drive it frequently and it didn't seem like it was really that bad, but I did drive it this weekend with a different lens and a different perspective and I see where all the slurry seal have occurred and so can you just kind of explain what there's a long stretch of slurry seal on both sides coming in, you know, down

58:52 that road, but what does that mean in technical perspective? Like why you're saying that that road really before it becomes a full reconstruct is that deterioration of the slurry seal and things, you know, like water trickling trickling down into that like that maybe a bigger picture of how that plays in maybe that would kind of help a little bit. I don't know. So I like to go out there and you know, first examine the cracks in the street and then take some kind of device where there's my keys or what have you and see how far down I can get to it. You know, Barlow is probably 6 in thick, maybe 8 some places. Um and as those cracks start to reflect down through the layer, it's going to

59:37 end up getting this upgrade. And then at that point it really is going to slowly start to deteriorate until you get to a full reconstruct. And so for this one, just cuz I know when we're out there doing that work, um you know, probably a good couple of weeks we spent on it with um I I don't have the exact number, but tons and tons of um asphalt emulsion because of how big those cracks were. Um with maybe possibly the goal of being able to grind out the first couple layers of that of asphalt in that section maybe hasn't got down to the base. We haven't seen evidence of that. But um anyway, I don't know. So Well, I don't want to hog all the money, but I I did look at it from a little different perspective and I and I can kind of understand the reasons for it making this list. Um and the G Street for me, that was a question for me, too, and I drove down that one and and from 10th to Mohawk as I probably been

1:00:22 doesn't seem like it's in a you know, bad of a state as the other side, right? The side by the hospital. That one definitely has some major issues in my mind. But again, I'm not a technical expert on the whole thing. So I guess to the point of your of truncation, like is that maybe an option in some of these areas to pick up money to do something with that. I don't know. I mean, I understand that intersection is being looked at in a different way, but as you we all know how many

1:01:07 complaints we get about that intersection. So I don't know if there's just some something that can be done there as a temporary fix that doesn't cost a major fortune, but but solves the citizen complaint issue a little bit. I think most of these locations are not we didn't put a huge amount of focus on the complaints just because we can't know how bad those streets are. Um and so like I said they it's full reconstruction. And so it's it's more of really trying to preserve it. So, you know, if if you're interested in pulling one location knowing that okay, that might end up in

1:01:53 a full reconstruct to focus on something else. That's definitely doable, too. So, um you know, like these other options that we came up with, you know, E Street from Mill to 14th instead or you know, 21st Street, you know, we can take a look at 21st Street um like most have mentioned. And I trust your recommendations have a lot of, you know, information behind them that I don't have, but just as a general you know, component to this conversation helping us understand and helping those that are, you know, paying attention to what we're talking about understand why these decisions are being made. That's good. All right. Steve, did you have a question about Harlan before you I know. No, Harlan always seemed to be picking

1:02:38 up the net. I'm sorry. It's a big project. By the way, 6.8 million, is that a reconstruct? No. Okay. But it could be. But if it was reconstruct You mean like 5 years into it? Right. I mean, if these and that's why I did do a table, too, for full reconstructions just in case we decide we really really want to work on one of the full reconstructs. Unfortunately, they are very expensive and take about half of the package. Um you know, each one takes up almost half the package, so. Right. Victoria. Um I wondered if you could talk a little bit about when it comes to these uh full reconstructs that could potentially

1:03:23 happen, um how that affects other infrastructure like the wastewater and the stormwater that are also within that. Does it affect that? If it it it gets deteriorated to the point that it's not that the whole road has to be redone, does it then affect the stuff? I wouldn't say for, you know, the sanitary sewer really. I mean, we we do we have methods to repair the sanitary sewer like lining them or when we do a full reconstruct project, you know, we'll look at, you know, is the sanitary sewer line needing to be replaced? And so that's what we're doing for Elm Street, but I don't think that there Yeah. if it needs to be. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, pipes in nature generally over time, especially with the older infrastructure like concrete pipes, will

1:04:08 have certain tears which is cuz the earth's moving around. Um or you have roots in the system and so Yeah, cuz I'm just thinking there's a lot of those pipes that are 50 years old or what plus. And so if you're already Yes. having to reconstruct the street, it's like, Um so I'm looking for some you know, you did this by ward and um I'm looking at projects where people have other options to get where they need to go. And like Daisy Street for example in my finishing that project, people do have the option of just turning off going to Main Street and getting where they need to go. Whereas some of these other projects, I mean, that road is the traveled road. People aren't taking other options. They're getting from point A to point B. So I think those and the ones that are close closest to reconstruct are really vital um to get worked on. You know me,

1:04:55 I'm I'm a huge advocate for these road projects and I'm super excited about what was done with the money prior. I just I'm very proud of the city of Springfield for what they've done. Do you have a list of roads that are just too far gone that are they have to be reconstructed. Like We We do. I mean, not right here. If I could maybe get that email to me cuz I'm just curious how many we have and what kind of a backlog we're looking at cuz my understanding is that we're like we have like an $80 million backlog. And so to me, putting off roads that could need reconstruct for later, we're almost kicking the can down the We're never going to get caught up. It's like we keep doing that. You know, we're never going to get caught up.

1:05:40 So, yeah. I I trust your opinions on which ones you want to do, but if I have any say, it's the ones that are the closest to the ones that are going to cost us the most in the long run. Your question about the list of the reconstruct roads, we can work to get that actually through this map. I I was going to play with it, but I don't want to screw it up, so and um Yeah, we can get that from our I'm just curious. It's not urgent. We have that failing location. I think that's a question we all have about this the actual size of the backlog. Make sure we're talking about the right number. Right. Do you have any more Do you have any more comments? Okay. Yep. Okay, so I appreciate for sure all the work you did and I also appreciate the thoughtfulness of trying to spread it out for a ward,

1:06:26 but I I I feel my position and the people that vote for me and my office are from the entire city. They're not just from Thurston. Um so I feel as though I have a responsibility citywide as opposed to taking care of my ward. And I think that this is a great list, but I would would like to have some sort of discussion or list of of the roads that that need it for what the work we can do with it and I don't care where they are in the city as opposed to cherry-picking trying to cherry-pick areas that Okay, so we got 66th and and 58th in in my ward, and I'm confident

1:07:14 there's other streets in the city that are in better position whether that's a good word or not to have this kind of work done before 66th and 58th really needs it or really timing of it can be those those cans can be kicked down the road, and if there's another road that is better timed than those two roads, then I'm I'm not interested in fixing 58th and 66th because they're in my ward. I'm interested in in trying to get the biggest bang for our buck for that for that bond. I really don't care where they are in the city. It's It's just getting the biggest bang for the buck and then picking the most appropriate streets that need this type of work the most. And and I would, you know, I am frankly

1:07:59 I would say, "Hey, if you had a list of 15 streets, where I'm going to be looking at the map, and you say, 'These streets are the ones that can use the money use the work the most in the city,' I'd already say, "Do it." I I'm Yeah, and that's how we for table one, those were our priority streets that we came up with. And so, if and then obviously the funding behind it. So, um it was also a little tricky to try to get everything to piece together puzzle-wise for the $20 million. Sure. So, um yeah, I mean, if there are specific ones that you would all like to more focus on, um That's where I'm going coming from. And then it's like in my ward, you have Have you seen Astor?

1:08:44 Right across the street from Albertsons, have you tried to drive that? So, but there's streets like that. I'm looking at Thurston, and the north end of Thurston, I should say the south side of Main Street north the north end of Thurston on south of Main, that's It's going to be reconstructed, so to speak, or rebuilt by sub. They better do it right. And then but going south or going north on 58th from the unprofessional, I so speak, it doesn't appear or feel as though it it's really needing that kind of work. I don't know for sure because I'm not the engineer. But So, I would again, I would like to look at the list or have a list that says, "Okay, these eight streets or these nine streets are really the streets that could use it." And again, I

1:09:29 don't care what word they're in. I'm not I'm not trying to look out in my backyard. So, let's open that discussion and I don't want to, you know, and we may have to reschedule stand here, but like we're getting into the really good the good part of this. Um the first thing I would tell you is I'm not as concerned that you guys hitting the exact number of 20 million. If it goes over a little, right, it comes under a little, right. Like let's get the project list right and then have it inform um inform uh the the rest of the work. Um the second thing is we go down the list and I want to just sort of talk about this cuz I've heard a couple of suggested changes. Um Are we good on Harlow? I'm good on Harlow. Right, like is right that thing's going

1:10:14 to probably be 20 million dollars if you have to rebuild it. So, we're telling them we're good on Harlow. Okay. Um the Camellia Act to Centennial, I I know I've seen a lot of complaints about that. Are we good on that one or do we want to potentially come back to that one? I would like to consider that one. Um yeah, one element about that one is that we have money that is coming to us from Lane County, um a good chunk of that. So, that's roughly 400,000 that will go into that. Okay, so we just have to annex the road first in order to Oh, there's the catch. There's the

1:10:59 What? Um so I mean, we can start that process. Okay. So, do people want to come back to Hamrick, or are they good on that one? Good on that one. I really I mean, we can do this and try to go down the list, but I haven't actually, you know, went out and seen it and what have you. So, the only thing I would say, and I know this sucks, but people want to see that you're working on roads that they can see need to be and you know, you hear people say, "Well, this doesn't seem that bad." And even though you see that it's bad, if they see that we're charging them tax dollars and then they're not seeing they're like, "Why are you fixing that road?" Then they may not be as likely to give us more money. Yeah, and I think and I think that's Yeah, hang on cuz we're cuz we're going to flip to this 21st Street

1:11:44 uh this Mohawk conversation in a in a second. But, go ahead. Um I I'm actually very supportive of the Aspen Street. That's one of the streets that I've had people reach out to me even though it's not, you know, in the world that I move in. The most I've gone over there and looked at it and that's great. Okay. It's right in front of the school. So, let's leave that one on for right now and then let's talk about what we're going to do with the rest of these because it's going to take another conversation, which is good, right? That's how we get to the right project list. But, is do we want Like, this is our opportunity to put in the Mohawk huge intersection, Mohawk whatever that intersection rebuild is. And I I understand that they're going to have to go back and price this. And when I think about the bond here, I think

1:12:30 about what is the thing that's sparked the community interest. And like when we did this for Mill Street, right? Like we all understood that like Mill Street depended on, you know, having an answer on Mill Street depending on getting the bond the first time. I think we've got to put some this intersection back in specifically because it is in the community's zeitgeist to this moment and we don't want to put the city in a position where we have to reap like peel back, you know, sections of stuff we just fixed. Go ahead. So, on that same subject, what stuck with me and what makes sense to me is that I don't want to spend a dollar today on something and then come back and have to spend a buck 50 on the same piece done road. So,

1:13:17 going through and and and I think is there a way that you can look at this and say, "Okay, what can we do today that we don't have to undo tomorrow when we have more money?" Or are we going to just do it all correctly today? Is To me, it's either going to be one or the other and not both. All right. And when we I know you're probably going to get to it, but we all just are taking over. When you get to 21st Street, like I don't know that we have to do all of 21st Street, but definitely Main Street up to maybe the intersection at um G Street is where it's the worst. If anybody's thought that, you know. Um so, maybe it's not all the way up to Olympic, but it's like that part that's just gets a lot of So, we're going to give you some more notes here. So, I repeat, people are

1:14:02 good on Mohawk to Mo adding Mohawk to um to the intersection and the intersection in there. So, one option What? for that intersection is is it. I'm just asking Jeff if it was on if it's in the CIP, that intersection, because I believe it was in the past. We'll double-check it. So, So, if that is a priority, then we can do what we did for Mill Street and Franklin and other projects and look for federal funding for that because it's a good match. It's a transportation project. So, that would be maybe better a better suited type of funding for that intersection. So, I think let's stick on that maybe intersection a little bit more. And if you have a different funding when we have the conversation again, if you come

1:14:48 back with a different funding source, then we can kind of entertain and work our work our way through it. But, if we've got we just have to have some sort of answer, then it's going to fix it in the community. Okay, excuse me. Um we just retired a 10 million dollar bond measure. It's going to go off their tax bill. This is going to be a 20 million dollar bond measure. How's that going to change it? That's going to affect the voters. I want to I want to pass it, but I have to make sure that they're they accept it. I want to know I certainly want to know how much variation it's going to be for them from the tax payer.

1:15:33 So, and then I think that's going to that's going to drop a bunch of these off the list. I'm actually probably open to keeping 38 on the on the list just based on the description and the conversation that I'm that we're hearing. And I know you're you're going to have to rework this list a little bit. And then can you also bring us back I think last time we chose some alternative projects, right? We we probably you know, we asked for 20 million, but we added one or two extra projects that said, "Hey, if we got favorable wins, we would try to squeeze those in." Can you bring us back a couple of suggestions for that? You know, I've heard Joe say that 50 like part of Astor like all of Astor or just the Albertson side? From It's the west end of Astor at 58th. Yeah, Council Commissioner. So, Astor Street is actually a project I have in operations.

1:16:18 We've already um Chris, we got a project out there with the ADA ramps. We're we're struggling with um contractors and their costs and timing. So, it's still on my project list. What are the ones that sub use? You're saying Okay. I shouldn't have said that out loud. I I'll retract that statement. Sorry, Mayor. Which did you say to keep up Did you say 36th Street? Yeah, 38th that you might Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, the the one that's on the on the sheet. What Whatever 38th that is. Keep that one. Okay. All right. And then I think we're you know, it's sized up the Mohawk one um act about you

1:17:03 know, see if what what we can do on the 21st Street and then Go ahead. Well, if you're talking about that Mohawk intersection being kind of like the main focus of what we're talking about, then if you're looking at other projects, I would think that cost-wise, I don't know, maybe not, but like Q Street, 16th and Marcola, and the Marcola like getting the other streets around that because they're affected, right? So, and it would look like it would be keeping the equipment and keeping all the stuff kind of in that area and connecting all of those together. That That's something I would think would be It's a little tricky only because if it's a roundabout we're going to be going back pretty far. And so, we don't know what those are extensive will be. Well, I must mean you won't put the word roundabout in the in the voter's

1:17:49 pamphlet when we go out with it. Please, goodbye. And that's it. I'll come back next time and talk about the different funding sources because I don't My recommendation would not be for this intersection to be a part of the bond package. It would be part of a federal request um which we are actually now approved for federal certification. This is our first project, by the way. So, that's another exciting piece. So, our federal projects will be a little cheaper now that we're we'll be doing them. Yeah. That's a good point. Thank you. Yeah, and I think that's that's the set that I keep going back to the the next conversation up, right? Like if we're $80 million behind and we were basically talking about cutting up, you know, trying to figure out how to get our arms

1:18:34 around the first $40 million of it. Like $20 of it's going to come from the bond. I don't know what, you know, what our federal grant is. It's like 12 million, 9 million, something like that. And then we we we still have a sort of a gap. So, really the next conversation I would love to take this project list and go, "Okay, this is the bond list. This is the potentially the, you know, federal ask list." And then with the 2025 transportation package happening in Salem, we hope, right? What are we going to go out, you know, and ask for from Salem to get us to kind of a kind of a magic number, if you will. And that And that that's still got starving for work over about that south end of 66. If you If you need to fill in a small number to gap

1:19:20 I think it would work. I just was not too excited about taking the work away from other places. 66 is um from Main Street to Thurston. So, are you thinking that's that whole stretch key then potentially? South end of both of streets, they do need work. I'm not the south end of That being said, everything north of Main Street, the south end of 58th and 66, they do need some work, but I'm not certain that it's all that needs to be done. You know, going all the way north 66 and 58. So, if there's money that could be saved

1:20:05 or not having to spend that money for those streets, then then more wisely used elsewhere, I'm not opposed to that. Okay. That's what I'm trying to say. So, I'm hearing kind of consensus also around, right? Like, you know, taking 58th off and subs, fixing, you know, a good portion of that, right? So, potentially shortening G Street. And then the Daisy one could potentially come off to make some room. Um I know we're giving you a ton of information. I just try to give give you a give you all the context of what where we think we are. Um, that's a lot. Do you have something you want us to go back towards, talk about a little bit more? Um, my guess is that 21st will be a full reconstruct. So,

1:20:51 on the Yeah, I know. Uh, there's a lot of streets I would love to do right now that are full reconstruct that we hear about all the time. Tsunami, yeah. So, are there are there any streets on the full reconstruct that you want us to add to this package? So, for instance, if 21st ends up being a full reconstruct then it won't be a part of it. Are there other ones, since we will be coming back, are there other ones that you would really like us to look at if some of these just aren't going to work? No, I don't uh All right, people look at it then and I can tell you that Shelly one, that needs to be a that is not going to be on this bond cut package because it's an

1:21:37 industrial road that all those those businesses use. We were going to have to go out and talk to those folks about what they want to do and Michelle's signed up for that. I signed up to a company that we have here. I I think that's I think that's a great point that Victoria said that we need to keep in mind where this work is being done in the city, how many what kind of exposure what kind of kind of fingerprints are going to get put on those roads and how many residents are going to be able to enjoy their their results of the bond they measured in. I think we need to consider that. If you got two streets that's going to cost the same amount of money, I'd like to see which gets used the most. I would separate that one. That's that's huge. Yes. People do what they're buying. We definitely took that into

1:22:23 consideration also. You know, there were some areas that were residential that we looked at but did not have very much traffic compared to one that was the same cost and a lot of user. It's quite first draft. This was a This was a really good conversation. I would say if we can get scheduled in to come back whenever we can fit them in, right? Cuz we I think we the way that we talked about this, we got to get to the the project list by the end of the year and then the then that would leave us with the sort of bond language and doing all the other, you know, doing all the other work in the after the first of the year. Yeah. Yeah, our really what we've been focusing on is, you know, for that last bond package that we did is patch those streets beforehand and there were some

1:23:08 full dig out areas, you know, Thurston Road, I think, and Mohawk, Olympic, you know, Centennial, all of them had some full dig outs. So, um as we've mentioned multiple times, it's just really trying to use this pot of money to preserve the roads and then the federal money focus on the full reconstructs because of the much bigger pot that we can do a much bigger chunk. Awesome. Yeah, and I think that's why we want to bring the federal dollars into this so we can kind of slot some things, you know, in the confirmation. So, really appreciate it. I'm looking forward to the next conversation. Sounds good. Thank you.

1:23:53 And you think you can get done in 5 minutes? It's hardly worth I think so. Pretty quick. I can pretty minor updates that I'm talking about. So, we have a few minutes tonight. Pretty good. Yeah, we'll use all of our 5 minutes. All of the last one. Hey, good evening, Council and uh Mayor. I'm Stan Petroff, the city uh engineer. I'll keep this brief. We've got some updates to the engineering design standards and procedures manual. What we like to call the EDSPM in short. The chapter one, the change is basically removing the requirement for both rigid and flexible pavement design so asphalt concrete. We typically just um say which one we're going to do when we

1:24:38 have a uh set of plans we need a it's all put together uh estimate and plans. Um the next one is pavement markings. So this is just clarification and basically updating to what we're currently doing. We're calling out thermoplastic striping and um referencing the manual on uniform traffic control devices which we've been using and referencing. We're just putting that into the the manual. Um chapter five is illumination and signing changes. So most of these are just getting more uh detail put into our plans so that when we put the information in GIS we we have more information in there. So it allows us to you know recall those locations better. Um And then kind of the more major one is um chapter 12. It's removing uh

1:25:23 general liability um insurance requirements for engineers and designers. They already have professional liability insurance and that was a request that was made. We looked into it and it makes sense. So just cleaning up language in that last chapter to remove that. Um and I can take any questions if anybody has any any questions. You know that last um chapter 12 brought to us by Counselor Doyle and she helped us walk through the challenges that she was hearing about and she had a great point we were able to um suggest that change but uh we appreciate that feedback. Right. Do you have any questions? All right. And you were right. That was two and a half minutes. That's pretty impressive. Thank you sir for that.

1:26:08 All right. I'm going to adjourn us. We are going to reconvene in 2.5 minutes for