Springfield City Council — October 13, 2025

0:04 I'm going I'm going to call the Springfield City Council session to order. Can I have a roll call, please? >> Mayor Van Gordon >> here. Councelor Weber here. Councelor Mo. Councelor Rodley >> here. Councelor Blackwell >> and Councelor Stout >> here. Thank you. >> Councelor Blackwell is excused for the evening. We're expecting councelor Mo any minute. We have three items on the work session today. The first item is evaluate W five applications with Mary Bridget >> process and um the purpose of the work session tonight would be to evaluate the applications that you have decide um if you want the applications to move forward to an interview and deliberation which is currently scheduled for October

0:50 20th. So, the council received one application. Um, you can direct me and staff to put this on for the October 20th uh city council meeting for an interview. The interview questions that we were going to include in the packet were the same as last time. There are seven of them. Each council would ask a question. They're questions like, "What do you like best about Springfield?" You know, the concept of being um elected citywide but representing a ward. if there are things you could change about Springfield, also understanding between, you know, council, city manager, and staff. And then if the applicant had any questions for you. So, the plan was just to continue on like we've done before. Um, and if there's any discussion or

1:35 questions that you have now, I'd be happy to answer. >> Does anybody have any questions? >> Okay. So, I think we're good to uh schedule Andrew Buck for what did you say? The 20th. >> I believe it's the 20th. Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Go ahead and let him know. >> Okay. Don't worry that this conversation is going to be a little bit longer. City hall deferred maintenance.

2:25 All right. Good evening, Mayor Council. Thank you. Um Mike Espinosa and I are here to uh brief you on the city hall uh deferred maintenance and department consolidation project. um or I should say potential project because we're at a point where we need council direction to move forward with um anything and I think that'll become apparent in in the material provided in the presentation. Um the presentation will summarize where we stand today, what's driving the need for action, um and then the choices before and the direction we're seeking from council. Um, so we're really looking to try and present something to you, the needs that we have to ensure that council or that city hall remains safe, efficient, and sustainable civic center for decades to

3:11 come. Oh, there it goes. Perfect. So, um, as you see in the material, city hall is facing some critical deferred maintenance and safety challenges. Um, we had done an internal, um, OSHA audit this last summer, um, in prep for a potential, um, inspection by OSHA and we there were several code deficiencies and other safety issues that were identified. Um, and as outlined, some of those the the remedy to some of those is through, you know, remodel or upgrades to city hall. So, those are critical. Um the other thing

3:58 that became apparent was the HVAC system um through the summer and and Michael will be providing more information on some of that and some of the other work on the building. But what's become apparent is really we're at a point now where the the entire HVAC system controls and everything need to be replaced, duct work and all of that to continue to have city hall function. Um, we started off kind of where we started with originally about a year ago was, you know, what we had council approve was really a functional remodel. You know, looking at red doing some carpet, paint, lighting, some of those kinds of things and and some functional remodel around the services we provide and and for those departments. And then through this investigation, this is where we've kind of landed on this project.

4:51 So, a little bit of the background. So, City Hall was originally built as a mall in 1972. Um, I don't know how many years it functioned. Not very many. The city purchased it in 1980 to use as city hall. And so, it was remodeled at that time for city hall. So again, you think about this space and how it's divided up and what it was originally designed for and what the original HVAC system that we're currently operating with. Same duct work, everything from most the areas 40 plus years was designed as a mall, not necessarily as office space to be kind of sectioned up and cordoned off. Um in 2007 the roof was replaced um the roof membrane and then in 200 um 15

5:36 and 18 we did some seismic evaluation and some seismic upgrades. There are still other seismic upgrades but we got to some of the most critical seismic upgrades to um to make sure that to ensure that city hall is safe to occupy. And what that means is the the upgrades we did do really ensure that people get out of the building in the event that that Cascadia size event happens, but most likely we won't be able to reoccupy the building. That would just be where there's not really a way to design the building to come back and do that without spending multi-million dollars. Um, and then in 2016 2019, the HVAC system was identified to be replaced at that point in time. At that point in time, I think it was just under a $2 million project. And then in 2020, council

6:22 considered replacing the HVAC system and the roof as part of the ARPA funds. Um, it wasn't one of the projects selected, but at that point in time, we were looking at probably a little bit more complex system and then also trying to do the HVAC system as a standalone project within the building. And we were looking at a 7 to9 million tag at that time. Um, so I'll let Mike talk a little bit more about what's going on with the HVAC system and and there you have a nice picture of what our fiber board duct work looks like. >> Thanks, Jeeoff. Uh, so good afternoon. Um, this is probably my first time meeting you guys. Um, so again, Mike Espinosa, city um, facilities supervisor. Um, I'm in my third year, so

7:07 I've kind of learned my way through this, but um, so I appreciate the time. So yeah, like Jeff was saying, we have 64 units. Um, do you want to go back one slide if possible? >> Um, and so if you look at uh this picture in front of you, right? So we're we're this is where we identify how big the roof and how big of scope this is, right? This is not a multi- lever building. So the the uh the top is really kind of expansive. And so 64 units on there. We have 10 units that are fully operational that we can trust that I can tell you guys it's going to work you know for the next 10 plus years. Um and then the rest um let me get my notes here. We have about uh 36 that we salvaged which what means is the X's the red X's that you guys see in the screen there um we use those as

7:53 salvageable parts. So if one's compressor went out and the other one a fan went out. So we figured out which parts we needed to then get those 36 units back and running. Right? So out of 64, we have like um about 46 units that are working now. Um and we have 18 as you could see on the screen there completely broken. And so one thing that I wanted to say um is you know we're we're to the point where I I don't want to make you guys feel like we're cornering you guys into having to do this, but it is a compounding issue that we have in front of us. Um, I can't go and just replace the HVAC units without having to replace the electrical. So, there is service shut offs on each unit. So, you can service them. Um, they're

8:38 out of code now, meaning if I replace one, I have to find a way to um get it up to code. So, on each one, you figure anywhere from 17 to $20,000 per unit. Um, and that's just just saying that to replace them. Um then we have the roof that is would be the next step. Um you're not going to replace all these units without damaging the roof. Um the next thing that comes to mind would be if we replace the units. Uh the ducting like Jeff said is pretty antiquated to the point where um I mean it's fiberboard if if you guys have been around buildings long enough. Um I when I first started didn't even know that this was a realistic uh way that they duck things. I thought it was all sheet metal. Um, so when we find our way into

9:26 replacing new units, uh, like Jeff mentioned earlier, this was a shopping mall. It was an open expansed area without any segmented like offices, um, you know, different types of, um, usage for the building. So, we go and replace the units and the next thing that's going to happen is the ducting is either leaking, isn't sufficient enough to provide enough uh, flow to certain buildings. And what happens is they'll fight each other. So we have two units are too close because the intake and the exhaust or where you get your heat and cool um they're fighting each other. So these units we replace them instead of 30 years we we you know we get 15 20 years plus I mean the most um because they keep fighting each other. So um and then with that like I said uh before we have these on a daisy change kind kind

10:12 of like your Christmas trees right um one light goes out the whole string of lights go out. we have that's how we have it as an operating system on Windows 7 um and we can't update Windows 7 um because train won't allow us to do it. So we would have to get a it's about $100,000 to just get control back of our system which right now is working at times. Um so sometimes you'll come in here like today feel a little chilly. Well that's cuz we physically have to tell each HVAC unit to either heat or cool. That's how behind we are. Um, so with with this uh you know with this uh fix, we would also kind of go and take care of the HVAC system. So, you know, like I said earlier, it's not just a simple fix where we can replace some units. That would have been the easy

10:57 thing. It's just uh you have to do one thing and it kind of falls to the other. If we do ducting now with the new state, and I think it's federal law, we can't put fluorescent lights back up. Um, so, you know, we were all thinking with Jeff is, you know, we're kind of just faced with like problem after problem. we just keep, you know, lifting that rock and finding more problems. So, that's kind of a little overview of the the big issue that we have just with the HVAC system. So, yeah. Um, so where we're at, the current status started out, like I said, is kind of just a limited function functional remodel to do some aesthetics, remodel, reorganize um our our airspaces, get a little bit more efficient. Um, and then as we dug deeper into the building conditions, it's just

11:42 kind of become clear that a remodel, that simple of a remodel, won't really address the deeper issues to keep city hall functioning um with the building functioning um by not addressing these aging systems and in these code deficiencies. Um, so what what we're presenting to you is is the need to kind of evolve this project into a more comprehensive modernization plan that will replace the HVAC, roof, electrical, plumbing, complete complete the security upgrades, fix wave finding. There's a a host of, you know, that host of of things that we would be addressing. Um, and then the other thing is as part of that, which is what we were looking at is consolidating our department services. One of those ideas is that we're going down. we'd go down to one customer service counter. So, you know,

12:28 reshuffleling where services are presented instead of having two, three different counters throughout city hall. Um, and so really the goal is to, you know, look at city hall and what what work does this building need to make it an effective um safe civic center for the next generation, 25 to 30 years. And so kind of here's the comparison. So I think within the materials and I'll let Mike speak to it. You'll have what he um presented to ET that kind of got us looking deeper which is the laundry list of projects and work that's needed at city hall that makes that comes that that is that total of three 31.3 million

13:13 if we were to do them as individual one-off projects. um and kind of comparing that to where we've landed at least with the presentation we have today on the project needs. Um and so what you can see is with this project with working with our our architect consultant, we think we can get that list of work done for less than $12 million. Um with that savings, you see there's this annual savings potentially with new HVAC energy efficiency. A lot of that is built in in in the fact that Mike's staff spends 60% of their time just keeping the HVAC system running in this building. So, you know, he can speak to what that means they're not getting to annually because that that taking away that they're not

13:58 getting to some of the work at some of the fire stations. You see our stairs out here. Um, we also know that the elevators need to be upgraded. So, there's a lot of other things that they're not getting to because they spend so much time just keeping this system operating to keep city hall open. Yes, sir. Anytime to ask questions. You're not Steve. Microphone's on mute. Microphone's on mute. >> Don't need a microphone either. H I understand this can be financed

14:43 this installation. >> Yeah. So at part of that at the end we have kind of an a couple ideas working with finance on ideas to finance the project. >> And the reason I don't have any I don't have the agenda because my computers aren't working. So I'm working blind. I don't even turn on the microphone. The other question is apparently this existing system is 20 25 years old. >> The existing HVAC system. So the duct work most of the duct work is 40 plus years old. There have been HVAC units that have been replaced. >> Um one of the thing is Mike mentioned we've heard that can't we just replace the air handling units? Well that's when we look at how we've remodeled city hall over time and and cordoned off space and made smaller space. That's where he's

15:29 talking about we have units that just keep fighting themselves and so then they're burning out well within their, you know, useful life. And so that we're really at that place that it the HVAC system needs to be wholesale replaced to um for the building use that it is today instead of an open mall. >> Yeah. And then I'll just speak a little more further into um what Jeff was talking about. Um, you know, we look at the the number the HVAC saves, you know, 229,000 and that's in in already budgeted uh labor. All right. And so my my staff of two um I have three, excuse me, I have staff of three. One is uh um he is stationed over at the uh at the justice center full-time. So I really only have two guys uh with incredible

16:16 skills. Um they're are always in the background keeping us going without us even seeing. um they this summer alone I I we were saying about 60% of their time and and we still have to run all the fire stations. I still have to do ops main street buildings. It is very difficult for my guys and so we have to you know we get really creative on how to make things work. Um but what that does is actually frees us up. Um, like Jeff was commenting earlier, I I in my funding, uh, the way I'm funded out of, you know, 420, I don't have enough in there to do anything above six figures, right? Even past $200,000 a year. Um, so when when something comes up like the stairs, I have to push that to the side and and kind of devote my time just

17:01 solely into the HVAC system or we're done with the HVAC system and then I go to the fire stations because those are 24-hour um, you know, places that I have to keep, you know, them going. We're talking gates, HVAC there as well. So, it frees up us a little bit. We we talk about, you know, what what happened in the past. I'm not sure. I've only been here three years. Um but but it does lead us um that it we are not actually managing and we're not operating the system and servicing the systems. We're just reacting to it. Um so this kind of gives me a leg up where this catches up frees me to catch up the other buildings like the fire stations and I've always said um you know to the directors um and other folks that you know living here in the city it the our facilities um our

17:48 infrastructure is the pinnacles of the city. You drive around town, you see a nice fire station, you see a nice city hall, and that's gives you a good feeling as a taxpayer. Um, you know, let you know that's where my money's going from. So, for me, that's why I have to balance is is I have so much dedicated time here to as well keeping the, you know, fire staff, the police stations going. So, that's kind of what it kind of frees me up to do is is kind of start kind of reaching out a little further. >> So, go back to the funding portion for a qu for for a moment. uh the fund you need what what's 420? So 420 is a building preservation fund. Um so if Nate's here can explain a little better, but basically I that would be like my operating budget. Um and I get about $2 and some change um a year to address the

18:35 entire city. >> So the $230,000 you're talking about from a savings perspective, like is it fair to describe two things happening here? One of them is that essentially all our building maintenance money a year is effectively going into into this building to keep the HVAC running or 60% of it. Is that >> I wouldn't I wouldn't say the the entire budget. So we basically be we've been like I said my guys' um their skill set is that they can take you know little amount of money and make something great happen. Um with the savings that we're doing it just frees us up to reach further out to other stations. So if we take the money, it's not like we're actually saving that money. It's just allowing us to be more diverse in in what we do.

19:20 >> So the way that I would think about it would be that $250,000 that you're saving is essentially $250,000 of other deferred maintenance that we're paying down annually because you've actually got people out there doing that work. >> Correct. Okay. >> Let's see. >> Thank you, Mayor. I just wanted to offer a little bit of um more detailed information because I first I want to acknowledge the great work of Jeff and his team in um helping us really come to uh some clarity on what's needed with city hall and I don't want to um you know cast any uh judgment on the past because I think in the other councils other city managers had discussions about whether or not we would continue to have this building as our city hall.

20:06 So that's fair. But I think, you know, my approach is, you know, kind of the fiscal reality of the city is trying to make do with what we have. Um, and because knowing that, uh, building a new building would be largely unaffordable for the city at this point. So, how can we take what we have and make the best use of it? And um when we were talking about all of these units, you know, in my mind, it didn't make sense to try to replicate what was already on city hall and improve that because it wasn't designed for what we're doing now. So Jeff really took this project on, looked at how we can use our space more efficiently. And hopefully that I think that also made a difference in the final price tag because we weren't putting as many units up there. We weren't replicating what's existing. Instead, we

20:51 were looking at how can we allocate the space more efficient efficiently because when you look around city hall, there's a lot of wasted space here. It wasn't built to be a city hall. And that's okay. Sometimes we use that space for community functions. So, we make it work, but it doesn't work in the operational side of things. So, when we talk about words like um remodel, I I get a little bit hanky about that word because we're talking about really replacing carpet that's been here for, you know, 40 years probably. And, you know, boxes that are stacked up high where, you know, staff aren't really getting good light and vent ventilation. To me, this is like like more of a livability issue with our employees. And that was reflected in uh we did a kind

21:37 of a preliminary walk through as if OSHA were expect inspecting us knowing that OSHA had come through and hit some of our partners. What is our liability on that? And we really identified some deficiencies there. So we're trying to correct those deficiencies where um bringing the building up to a habitable standard I don't think is too much of a uh over explan over explanation. So I would look forward to getting to the financing part of it. >> Okay. >> So um so yeah, as Dancy said, so the when we look at it, it the the the final plans that Mike and I looked at for this estimate that were came part of this package, as she said, is 23 units from

22:22 64. So a little bit more efficient system, a little bit better, modern system. So, as we consider the financing options and what we were looking at, um, you know, we're really highlighting the the fact of the safety, the fiscal responsibility, you know, workplace needs of our staff as Nancy said. And so when we looked at the financing and and Nathan's here to, you know, speak a little bit more to this. So these are this is me kind of echoing a conversation I had with Nathan, but we have a rainy day reserve that's has six plus million I believe available. Um so with with that and looking at other funds and how to divvy this up we we feel we could cover the cost of this project um and minimize borrowing and

23:09 reduce um reserve flexibility. Um, the other option is is financing the project for how many other years, getting a loan, using some of our investments to help pay down that loan, and then just spread that cost out over time. Um, and again, I Nathan could come up and speak a little bit more if the council has um specific questions on financing. Council Weber. >> Uh before I start talking about financing, I just have a quick just I just need to understand what I'm looking at here. Um there's a a grid or a >> Yep. the spreadsheet >> explanation of costs here and it looks like it's about 27 million and we're

23:54 talking about hopefully 12 million in a six-year period. Does that cover all of these items here or are some of these nearly. So, what's not included off of that list is the elevators is um like the stairs aren't included. Okay. Um there's a few other um minor things in there that were in the outy years that weren't included and that's in that efficiency of freeing up some of Mike's staff and that budget is being able to to those are kind of those manageable projects that if we got these big systems taken care of and modernized it kind of takes a little bit of a it frees them up to kind of start addressing some of these other you know some of them while look cosmetic there

24:40 are some structural things with the stairs there's I mean you could look outside at city hall and we think we're due to have painting done and things like that and so but right now his staff doesn't have that the luxury of that time >> to to manage that. >> Got it. Thanks for helping me understand that. I appreciate it. >> Yeah. And I think one thing we've discovered when you talk about that work is a lot of those projects when Mike and his staff put those prices together, they're considering doing those projects as individual projects. I think the one benefit by doing what would be somewhat of a disruptive project, you know, comprehensive project is by combining all of the work, it's like, well, we're moving everybody out of a certain area so that we can strip it down, we can get

25:25 into the ceiling, and it just makes it a lot more efficient for a contractor to get in there and do that work than trying to figure out how, okay, this year we're going to do the duct work and how do we shift people around and and get duck work done in those in those spaces, you know, versus doing a more comprehensive and combin combining a bunch of work together, >> right? And just one more followup. Um, with costs continually rising, I mean, that's just going to continue to happen. So, I assume that time is of the essence to get this kind of in the decision process and letting you get moving forward with contractors and getting them in here and all that. >> Yeah, I I would agree with that. I I mean, I think every day we get an estimate. It's never going to get cheaper. At least I haven't seen that.

26:10 So the sooner you can get bids on these and get prices secured and equipment because some of it is, you know, some of this equipment, how long does it take to get it ordered? That sort of thing. So I would agree with that. It it's never going to get cheaper and it seems like every like I'm always nervous every time we're six months down the road looking at something new. I'm like, "Okay, I get a cost estimate today. It's kind of exciting, but it's a little nerve-wracking because you're like, okay, how many how much more is it going to be up this time versus never seems to go down." Um and also I'll add something else. We're also facing some regulatory issues. Um so we have you know the elevators like we spoke about those in about two years we're going to have to do and those um you know we have the uh excuse me the west and then the north elevator that I was uh notified by the state. They're not just going to pass.

26:56 We can't just do like a quick retrofit. They're going to be a full rebuild. Um so that helps us strategize on how we do it. If we change out city hall, some of the HVAC, I mean, excuse me, that elevators will get changed on their purpose. Um, the other thing is the fire control panel. We've been given grace um on how many times they overlook some things. But once they added the city council, chambers, uh, CMO, the new library stuff. for expanding that system and so we're slowly falling behind on having a sonrol little pad that now isn't working for when we do inspections or a third party comes in does the regulatory fire inspections that we're running into a it's going to be a hard stop sooner or later >> councilor I have a handful of what'll seem like a little bit disjointed questions so forgive me um so just clarify something

27:42 and maybe I missed it we talked about phasing um can we go section by section with all the replacements or do We have to I know it's it's kind of like a a web met together, but can we go like, you know, quadrant A, quadrant B, or is it all have to be kind of done at once? I know costs continue to escalate, but I'm also I'm just kind of weighing those two things like do we do all at once or that's my first question. I think when we put when I put phasing in there, it was if the council wasn't comfortable with a project this size of like do we go back and do we consider like what Mike has more? I think phasing we would too with the work presented for that 12 million what we think we can get for under 12 million is our goal >> it would be phased within city hall but

28:27 all of that work would be done as one project we would that that would be the part we were talking that we would look forward to figuring out of how we keep continuity of service moving folks around and and getting the space and freeing that up for the contractor but yeah the goal would be to phase it that way it's still going to be a long disruptive project. There's no way around that. But it's like how do we make sure that for the the customers for employees that we have continuity of service. >> Then just two other short things. Uh we're not locked into any contract with any particular brand of HVAC system, are we? Especially when we're doing this. >> Not at this point in time. No. >> And then my last question is actually permit me two fast ones. Um we expect city hall to be a durable facility for a good 30 more years at least. Yeah, it's

29:13 a great it's a great building. Th >> those were kind of the questions I had for council. That's kind of, you know, when I was talking to the mayor and councelor Weber about this, that's like one of the questions. Is this where city hall is going to be? If that's the vision we see, it's like, well, then what do we need to do to invest in the building to to see it continue as that that civic center that we have? >> But the bones are good is really kind of what I'm trying >> Yes. We don't see structural issues with the building. We just have system issues. >> Perfect. My last question, I promise, is um do you have any money at all for any additional consultants on this project? And the only reason I I ask that and suggest that my church just did a total HVAC re, you know, reworking and it was stunning. And the guy was a little bit of a crazy genius. He had also done all the HVAC work for um Mackenzie Wamut.

30:00 And not that not you have to use the guy, but I'm just saying like do you have any additional money for that because that could potentially shift the overall direction of the project even further or have you already engaged a consultant to get this put together? >> So where we're at and this is kind of why we're here tonight because this kind of scope change is beyond what what I came to council and had uh got the contract approved about a year ago. what we were talking about was more of that, you know, functional remodel, you know, looking at our spaces. And then, like I said, as we dug, we found this building needs a lot more work than that. And just kind of putting paint on it and freshening it up isn't really going to solve the critical issues behind the scenes and not going to solve the problem and keep city hall functioning.

30:45 That risk that is still there. And so, we engaged an architect with sub consultants and that's where we've gotten to at this point in Right. right now. That question is is if if council says yes, we we agree, we'll come back. We will come back in short order in a regular session to get those next steps approved. What's the financing look like? How do we get but we you know we have a contractor who's been working with our architect to kind of put the cost together but we haven't we we haven't gotten to the level detailed design really detailed design yet because it's like before we start spending more money on that design I really need to know if we're moving that direction before we spend more money and that's kind of where we got with this scope change. I didn't want to come and say oh we've done all the design work

31:31 and spent all this money before we have that decision from the council. And I think uh councelor Stout, the way I looked at this was if we said yes to this, we were effectively making the decision that we're going to be here for 30 years, which could be the right decision, but we want to at least know that kind of going into it. Council, >> uh, apparently this would probably be done by one contractor and they would do the phasing in coordination with the city. Correct. Good. Um, this a good looking city hall. I've seen others around the state. They're pretty old to keep them going. and uh they don't look good, but this one looks like a good city hall and I sure it'll be beautiful for many years.

32:24 >> Other questions? Um so I looked over >> I know. Well, it's not really a question. I think um and I don't know if are we are we down here to these questions? Is that what we're talking about? So, yes to these things of it being a good-looking city model, but just to just to put it out there, what would be some reasons that we wouldn't? Right. So, I'm curious as if anybody has like why would why would we what would be some reasons that this wouldn't remain city hall? I don't know that anybody's got a reason for like but we got to walk into you know this kind of investment eyes wide open before we get um to the financing piece I guess the question I have two questions one is so we're saying effectively we can value engineer

33:09 ourselves into like $37 million of like total value by being just you know for $12 million. So, right now, the estimate we have that we're working with, the list of work that I put in there that we're getting, the electrical, fire panels, um, lighting, HVAC system, roof, windows, we're at 13.8 million. We met with right before when I was preparing for this and getting that estimate, Mike and I met with him. We think once we have a go- ahead on a project and we start getting into detail design and looking at, you know, what would be really nice to have versus what's the most important thing to have that we can get that the goal is to get that down to 12 million or less.

33:54 And so that's that laundry list of work. And I say I think the reason we're realizing some of that through this project and what we've gotten to with our consultant is because we're not taking like, oh, we're just going to do HVAC, you know, and and that's it. and we're trying to work within city hall. It's like we're doing a a comprehensive project which is some guarantees for the contractor and that sort of thing. So there's some pricing efficiencies and cost efficiencies by doing one project. So that's what I think we're experiencing. >> And you know, maybe this is a question for Nancy. What happens if the HVAC system catastrophically fails? That's such a great question, mayor, because I was going to raise my hand and say what we're really bringing to you is an issue with an HVAC system that is currently on life support basically. And

34:42 I don't want to come to this council after afterward and have it our HVAC system fail and and have it be an immediate and very expensive fix. I' I'd rather try to address the issue before we get to the catastrophic range. So what happens if it fails is that we would you know we would have to depending on the degree where you know time of year conditions all of those factors I would say worst case scenario is that city hall would not be able to have people in it and we may have to close it completely. Um we do know how to do that. We did, you know, we did that when we there were stay-at-home order or orders during COVID. It's definitely not preferred, but we know

35:27 how to do it. I would say that's the worst case scenario. And then, of course, anytime you have to uh purchase when you have that kind of immediiacy, uh, you know, the the pricing goes up because you have to, you know, get things right away. Whereas this time we're trying to be um deliberate in how in the decisions that we're making and how we're planning our space so that what we replace this antiquated system with um is actually suitable for the space in a holistic way instead of kind of peacemealing our way through. Uh the other question that I had was if I'm thinking about it from the public's perspective um when I look at this list of maintenance is there is there a is there a smaller version of

36:12 this that is plausible or is this the smallest amount of maintenance that that that we can do to to effectively do this correctly? Um, I I would say it's the smallest. It's the probably the most efficient package that we could come up with. I think we we might be getting a little smaller. That's why I say through detail design, but it's not going to be like 50% less. I I think where we've kind of gotten to with the system needs and what we're designing. And I appreciate Nancy talking about like the space when we look at the space allocation and remodel for staff and what we call a remodel is really looking at designing the interior of the remaining space. So that one what offices are created, what meeting rooms

36:58 are created in that space is we're not in this place now where we're adding staff and now we need to add an office here, we need to add cubicles here. is trying to get to that place where it's actually designed as an office usage space, the HVAC system set up to match that. So for the next 25 to 30 years, it's just routine maintenance instead of suddenly now we close off and cordon off a section of the building and that's going to mess up the HVAC system. I'm I'm really like pushing the directors as we look at the space and that sort of thing that this is we're providing space for smart growth which means we have allocated for future offices. We're not going to walk in and ask Mike's group to suddenly build us new offices, you know, 10 years from now. That's the goal is that that that we're at a place where we

37:44 have the right system designed for the staff and we've allocated space for growth. >> So, what happens if we just replace the HVAC system and don't reorganize city hall? >> Um, well, I I think the reality is is if we just do that, we'd still be tearing into all of the walls. I think the the remodel or the rework of of the space for staff is really now kind of that minor piece of the whole project. When we actually go through the costs and we're looking at the cost estimate in detail, that's not the expensive parts. Um the expensive parts are dealing with the electrical systems, dealing with the HVAC systems, fire suppression systems, those sorts of things. >> Nancy,

38:29 >> thank you, Mayor. I I think I was trying to get to that. Maybe I didn't explain it well, which was we won't be able to achieve efficiencies just replacing like for like because what we have now is doesn't work for the way that city hall is configured. Because you think about how long this is, you know, since 1980 that we've had this, you know, people move, there's offices that get built or shift or a wall will come up or and when you don't reconfigure your zoning around that, that's where, you know, you'll go to some parts of city hall, it's freezing cold, it's burning hot, you know, it's it's really um inefficient now. And I'm just I've been nervous um through the summer that the HVAC would hold out and the air conditioning

39:14 wouldn't blow on us, you know, and I'm going to be nervous in the winter to make sure the building can stay warm. So, the zoning and the res the reccalibration of where people are in city hall is really about how do we make a space that is where we put people where we can make the system itself more efficient. That's where we go down from the 64 units to 20ome units. >> So would it be is it fair to think about it like if we just replace the system today without reconfiguring people, we're going to spend millions of dollars and get half the lifespan out of the system, right? That you're saying that to get the full lifespan out of the new HVAC system. We've got to reshuffle and reorganize part of city hall. >> That's what I'm saying, Mayor. >> Yeah. Okay. I think I got it.

40:00 I think we're ready for you, Nate, because I think we're going to have I don't think Jeff's going to let us off the hook without talking about talking about financing. I notice how they both quickly try to leave. So I think maybe start with like what what direction do we need to give from a on financing or because if if we're saying hey it looks okay and you guys can do some more work but it when I read it it sounded like we need to talk about you know what our what our potential dollar

40:46 >> so we've just had some side conversations regarding financing we haven't put a lot of work into it not knowing if there was an appetite for this project so if there is that's when we're going going to start looking at this. I think for starters, you know, just deciding, you know, what funds should be covering the cost of this. Um, we've already done a remodel in the city manager's office, um, in the library, uh, in legal. And so, this group that it touches is mostly DPW, and I think the utility funds will be paying for probably the majority of the share of this project. So, that's going to be one component that we're going to look at. And then the other is do we want to access existing reserves or do we want to look at financing this and then having that debt service spread out as part of the operational budgets of these funds over 5 to 10 years. And so I think we'd be uh inclined to bring back some

41:33 options that we think make sense and then let you consider those and choose the one that you would like us to pursue. >> I think that would I think that would work right. Yep. Okay. Yeah. So bring us some options. All right. Jeff, what other directions you need? >> So, I think yeah, I think the key to there is is that there's an appetite for the council to move the project forward. Um, so we can come back um with that. It would be bringing back some financing options. Um, the one thing that we'll be looking at first because we're kind of like at a I don't even want to put a percentage on it, but we're still in early detail design when we kind of said we need to take pause and and get more direction from council. So I think also would be coming back with some contract

42:18 updates, things like that on that next step so that we can engage our consultant in that detailed design, a full detailed design and keep moving forward because our goal is is if we can get to a financing option that the council agrees to, wants to move the project forward that um we can get contractors in here as soon as possible. And so with that, I'll be working with city attorney's office and Nathan on getting those contracts so I can get that moving too before um as as quickly as possible. >> Okay, that sounds like a plan. >> All right, thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> All right, the last one is the nuisance lean discussion.

43:19 Good evening, council and mayor. Um, I was planning on walking around and handing out the photos before thinking I may have to say, "May I approach the bench or I wasn't sure what the protocol was there." So, I'm I'm glad >> I think we got you covered. >> I appreciate that. Uh good evening. Um I'm here today to brief you on our code enforcement collection efforts uh specifically regarding luence or nuisance lanes, excuse me. Um this is anformational briefing to prepare you for a potential public hearing uh that I'd recommend for December 1st. Um so the issue before us is straightforward. Uh we have seven properties uh with over $355,000 in court-ordered fines uh that remain unpaid. uh despite extensive collection efforts. Uh tonight I'll explain what

44:05 nuisance lanes are um and why we need them and also the process moving forward. So first let me clarify what we're talking about. So nuisance lanes are different than abatement lanes in that um uh abatement lanes recover costs that the city um incurs through uh physically abating the the nuisance violation. So, uh, the the four, um, abatements or four recent abatements, uh, have included, uh, demolition of a a substandard house that was already fallen down, um, and and unable to be secured. Um, cleaning up a, uh, a large, um, uh, uh, chronic nuisance property uh, with, uh, uh, odors and and things like that in the back. Um and so there were contractors

44:51 that came out and did that work that uh the city uh worked through either a voluntary compliance um agreement or a court order to do so. Nuisance lanes um collect courtordered fines uh that property owners already owed but haven't paid yet. So essentially those are in collections at this time. So these fines that uh the Springfield Municipal Court has already imposed uh through a full judicial process. uh property owners um have had their day in court um and were found in violation and ordered to pay penalties. Uh these court orders remain unpaid and are currently with the collections agency uh which has uh recovered um nothing um uh despite holding some of these cases anywhere from uh 18 months to 4 years. Um the nuisance lane uh gives us an additional

45:37 mechanism uh to secure these debts against the properties uh themselves. Um so the problem here is let me let me give you um kind of some context. We have um roughly 1.8 million in outstanding uh fines. Um some of which are in collections or otherwise and and those numbers fluctuate. And that's specific to uh uh code compliance fines. Uh some of those go uh way back before um uh I started working here 9 years ago. Um, some of them are more uh much more recent. Uh, and so the the ones we're talking about today are are specifically seven properties um that have um over $350,000 in unpaid court fines. And

46:22 these aren't minor violations. Um these are these are chronic nuisance properties uh that seriously impact the community. Um the photos in front of you show um uh uh the properties in question. Um uh the violations include living in um RVs on vacant lots. Um with garbage spilling onto adjacent properties or changing properties, the RVs will change it onto a different property or additional RVs will come on. Um obstructing ADA access uh for months on end with moving boxes, um other uh junk vehicles, that sort of thing. Um dangerous buildings with repeated um uh security features. um they weren't able to or did not uh

47:07 secure uh structures and then industrial vehicles and uh operations uh heavy equipment repair and otherwise and junk stored on residential lots. So these violations have been ongoing for years. Um uh one case in in that packet uh goes back to July of 2020. Uh property owners uh here have received multiple um uh citations um appeared in court, failed to appear in court, um were found in violation, were ordered to pay fines. Uh they've ignored those court orders and our collections agency um hasn't been uh uh too successful. So meanwhile, when this is as this is occurring, um our our neighbors or their neighbors are continuing to suffer the impacts and

47:52 compliant property owners rightfully question why these property owners really face no real consequences. So the solution here um is kind of the final piece of uh code compliance regarding the actual fines themselves. While we do have the ability in some cases to go and um resolve violations or abate violations through a court order or attempt a voluntary compliance um uh agreement, uh the properties in question here don't quite fit the bill there. Uh they're either uh uh too expensive or unable to access whatever the the violations are or unable to determine that ownership. And so it makes it incredibly difficult to do the actual physical abatements. Um, and I promise you I'll only quote one section of the code. So, um, Springfield Municipal Code 5.640,

48:39 uh, which was adopted, um, way back in, uh, 2020, excuse me, 2001 under 5.624 or 25, more recently, um, in April of this year as 5.640. Um, through that, we have the legal framework to place leans on properties specifically for these unpaid court fines. Um, and here's why they're effective. So, they attach to the property and not just the person. Uh, so instead of just having a bill floating out there in collections, these are attached to your property. Uh, they're valid for up to 10 years. Uh, so before or if these properties are sold or refinanced or change hands, they come due. Um, and they have a strong deter effect. Um, this is a pretty substantial move um, uh, by the city. It's not to be

49:25 taken lightly. And so because of that, there are specific um actions um uh that these folks will see that uh you know, if if you violate the code in extremist, this is this is a an action the city will take. Um and they work. Um uh the the past out of the past four abatement cases, uh three of them had turned into leans and we've recovered uh three leans since then in the past two years. Um so and this is um again kind of in the growth period of code code compliance and so these were extreme cases that we were able to to address with minimal staff. Um and they're also the industry standards. So Portland, Salem, Eugene um all impose um not just abatement but uh

50:11 fines as well uh code compliance fines uh through the lean process. And so this is also about equity here. uh compliant property owners uh invest time and money to maintain their properties. Uh so these seven property owners have have accumulated a large amount of fines uh while their neighbors do the right thing um and invest in their property. And so without this effective uh collection mechanism um our our code compliance system uh really loses our credibility here. And so I I want to emphasize the extensive due process built in into this. Um uh uh code compliance staff or or people with the city aren't able to impose these lanes unilaterally. Um uh if the council agrees to a public hearing on December

50:56 1st is kind of outlined and that's not necessarily an arbitrary date, but it it's certainly movable. Um uh the first step would be notice to those property owners explaining in detail um uh what the fines are about. um and then the specific procedures to follow uh to appeal that um and what their rights are. Um so that would hypothetically go out if the public hearing was December 1st. Um I'd send those letters out on uh Wednesday um October uh 15th and then they'd have uh 30 days to do um a couple different things. They can appeal uh by uh written protest. They can um uh come to the council uh hearing itself. Um or they can pay the fine. Um, another piece of that as well is this is a um a

51:42 compliance tool that we use that if that lean is placed or if that threat is made um and they're able to come into compliance, we're more than happy to significantly reduce any of those fines. That's our ultimate goal here. Um uh we're not out just for the fines. We're really really working towards that uh that compliance piece. And so that the the opportunity to be uh to object would um end November 19th. Um the public hearing on December 1st would be held before the council. Uh uh and that's where the property owners can either uh present their case or um uh present any uh uh written objection. However, at this point and and this is important to understand that the hearing is is pretty limited in scope. Um uh so

52:27 again, per section 5.640 640. Um council isn't reconsidering whether the violation existed um or whether the fine was valid. Um uh that was already decided in court and uh the the appeal process has ended there. Uh so your role here is to approve or deny placing the lean um uh as a collection mechanism on the property in question. Um and then step four would be um uh if if um um I believe it it's by resolution if it's applied by resolution um then the lean would become effective on the city docket the following day. Um and again the property owner would be notified directly of that. Um and so this layers um this pretty significant uh uh uh protection there. There's um uh

53:14 due process built into it. um and it's layered on top of the ex extensive procedural um rights that were already afforded uh during the original mu uh municipal court proceedings. And so this is where the um the property owners uh could contest the violations, they could present evidence, examine uh cross-examine witnesses um and ultimately appeal any decision to municipal court. Uh so this is well past that that point. And so a couple um um fiscal and finan or fiscal and policy considerations here. Um uh so first the impact here is we're talking about um over $350,000 um in in courtordered fines uh coming back uh uh to the city. Um and leans

54:00 provide long-term security. This isn't um us coming out in our current collection efforts. Um this is a um you know they're they're not going to go away. no one needs to call on them. They sit there until the property changes hands. And then there's also administrative costs um uh that can be levied in uh as well under 5.640. So that's 10% of the total fine um which would effectively cover the cost of doing business um that the city has already put into these cases. Um so when you look at the you know this isn't a um a citation um that the city you know we foot the bill for all those costs. So that's court fines or court fees. Um that's the uh code compliance um officers out in the field. Um uh that

54:45 sort of thing. And again that is also um uh something that we can u negotiate as well. Um if we enter into a voluntary compliance agreement. Traditionally the city has waved those administrative fees um in in each case. And feel free to if you have a question feel free please. >> You want to go first? >> Yours first. Thank you. Um, thank you for this and for this conversation. I have a like a comment and a couple of questions. Um, so I appreciate this journey that we're on and I know since you joined us and and it's been since the time that I've been on council and so it's it's been great for me to see this process we as we move through it and I know one of

55:31 these properties that I've been in meetings about um because it's in my ward and have often wondered like what are we going to do next. I think a couple of the things that I just want to ask about um uh and you started you you kind of have touched on it. So, just wanting to make sure that there's a very clear process that we move through so that this isn't something that we can be like, we're crabby at these people or whatever, you know, that people can we can we can set up a clear process that we will build on as we move forward so that folks really understand that we've done due diligence, which I think we absolutely have because we don't have this process and some of these properties have been out of compliance for a really long time. The second thing is really, you know, and I'm probably not alone with my

56:17 colleagues up here is that, you know, this is one of the things that I get the most people showing up on my doorstep about, right? They're talking about the neighbor and I my my spouse is at the top of that list is talking about who's not mowing their lawns or who needs to do this or that. And um so even though we have this lean, this doesn't ensure that the property is going to be cleaned up. So that's the thing that I'm sitting here thinking that even though we do all of this stuff and the money eventually comes back, it doesn't necessarily improve things for the folks that are having to look at that in the short term. And I don't know what the answer is to that, but I thought it'd be helpful for us to just talk about in public because, you know, there's there's the like, oh yeah, we know that that they've been fined and they've there's a lean and all of these

57:03 things, but we still have to like look at that property. Uh you're not wrong, counselor. Um I mean it's it's one of those things. So this is um kind of the next step and and one of the um uh one of the the obstacles that we faced as a program is um resources and having those types of resources. And so when we've done the abatement um uh uh projects before um those have not come out of an embment fund. Those have come out of general fund. Um and so the the plan here is that all of these funds will be transferred specifically to an abatement fund that is only geared towards um uh resolving these violations. And so while it's not, you know, a fix for next year,

57:50 it does give us an operating budget to have those contractors on site or something along those lines. Um so we we will be seeing efficiencies in the near future. we we have uh we just hired another officer um uh and and so I don't anticipate us being you know um out in the street or you know anything like that but we'll be able to to really be much more effective I think with this abatement fund but also with that that second officer really working >> council this is a long question so be prepared what if they just walk away >> um typically that will then fall under uh taxes. Uh and so it's at least a three-year process there. Um uh it we're

58:35 still protected under the 10-year um uh statute of the lean. So um while we won't have an immediate resolution, we don't have one now. Um and so at least this will give us the potential to recover something when that property does change hands in order to do something about the next property that that occurs. Thank you, Councelor Stone. >> With a mechanics lean, I can foreclose on a property as long as I file my lean paperwork within I think it's 18 90 days or something like that. But there's no foreclosure mechanism with the kind of lean process we're suggesting in this case. Correct. >> Certainly not through code enforcement. >> Okay. And is there a and is there a parallel um rather is there anything you would

59:20 want council to consider related to that or possible in relationship to that when we're talking about these projects that have been out for 18 months was it on collections? >> Um Charlie I can help with that a little bit. So uh this type of lean um actually could be foreclosed judicially like with a lawsuit. So, the city would have to file a lawsuit against the property and the property owner to foreclose the lean and receive the payment. That would be something that would need council approval, obviously, because it's a lawsuit. So, we wouldn't enter into that lawsuit without telling you, but it's a different type of process than like a um non-judicial foreclosure that you hear about for residential houses where um it doesn't run through the courts. That would be an extreme uh to do a judicial

1:00:05 foreclosure, I would say, would be a significant action. um and not something that this is um intended to have the lean is not something it's intended to do. It's really an ability if the property changes hands um to clear once they want to clear that title then the city can receive those funds back. So, it's a possibility but not something we would recommend. >> Council, whatever. >> If I missed this and you already said, so forgive me, but what happens after the 10 years expires? Do we have an opportunity to go back and replace that or reinstate the lean or it just drops off? >> I think it drops off. I don't believe that you could like extend it um for a further amount of time. The thing about municipal leans that's

1:00:51 important is they have high priority. And so that's what's um significant about municipal leans or this type of lean. Um but I think the 10-year limit is the 10-ear limit. And if that's different, we'll let you know. >> Okay. Thanks. >> All right. Anybody else? All right. Charlie, thanks for bringing this to us. So, I know it's this is probably the number one issue I hear from constituents about is issues around these types of properties. So, I thanks for being on it. >> All right. Thank you. Um, >> so is that direction then to move forward with the all the >> proper said I thought I thought >> I I thought it was uh information only. Yes, go forward and do it.

1:01:38 >> Thank you, council. >> Captain Captain sign off. >> All right, we're lo I'm losing control up here. I'm going to adjourn us. We will be back at CEDA at 7 o'clock.