Springfield City Council — December 1, 2025

0:04 I'm going to call the Springfield City Council work session to order with roll call. >> Mayor Van Gordon >> here. Councelor Weber >> here. Councelor Mo >> here. >> Councelor Rodley >> here. Councelor Brockwell >> here. Councelor Buck >> present. >> And councelor Stout >> here. Thank you. We have two items this evening. Um the first one is the Centennial Traffic Calming Pilot Review with Michael Lee >> and a little lead in uh from Brian Common. Good uh good evening mayor and counselors. Uh this began quite a few years ago. So I want to be able to provide a little bit of historic context to this and Michael will provide all of the technical and engineering uh context. He's our uh transportation planning engineer and

0:50 does a sub a really superb job at it. So I'm going to read this so I can get through it pretty quickly. Uh development public works has approximately 10-year history of Centennial Boulevard residents raising concern for vehicle driver over speed from 18th to 28th Streets. OP staff involved Springfield police through the years requesting increased traffic patrol. They helped out a lot there as well as placement of radar speed detection equipment uh that provided driver feedback. In 2022, I received a neighborhood petition from approximately 80 plus residents requesting a speed reduction and traffic calming corridor be considered. And in uh 2023, OP's

1:36 traffic engineering staff began researching the prospect of designing and constructing speed humps uh formally bumps as a traffic calming option. staff met with Mayor Van Gordon and councilors Rodley and Blackwell uh as they as this affected their wards uh with a recommendation to design and construct a construct a temporary speed hump pilot project for Centennial Boulevard from 18th to 28th streets. This approach would be analyzed pre and post implementation to better evaluate potential benefits and impacts and inform our future considerations. And with that, Mike Michael has a

2:21 presentation. So, good evening, council. Uh, as stated, I'm Michael Leebler, your transportation planning engineer. Going to talk tonight about the Centennial Traffic Coming Pilot Project. See if I can get this to work. There we go. Okay, so just a another quick little overview. Um, citizens had expressed concerns about traffic conditions on Centennial Boulevard from 21st to 28th Street. Um, staff confirmed speeds outside of Norm for posted 30 mph. um addressing these concerns. Um there was a citizen position to CMO for trafficcoming from 21st to 28th Street.

3:08 Um and from that uh trafficcoming pilot project was initiated in the spring of 2024 with the installation in the summer of 2024. So some basic project elements uh were the installation of rubber speed cushions along Centennial corridor from 21st to 28th. Uh the initiation of a before and after study of the effects of traffic calming along Centennial and surrounding roadways and public outreach gauging overall public opinion at the time of the installation and one year after. So, we'll get right into the study elements. Um, so the short of it is the

3:54 trafficcoming definitely slowed speeds down out there. Before the trafficcoming, the average speed was 34 milesPH with a 85th percentile speed of 37. Just to kind of frame it, typically when we're looking at 85th percentile speed, we want that to be between 0 and 5 miles per hour of a posted speed. The posted speed limit out there is 30 mph. In the after condition, after the calming, the average speed um was found to be 25 miles hour with an 85th percentile speed of 30 mph. So, a little more aggressive than um to get into the right speed profile. Some of that has to do with the nature of the temporary trafficcoming. Um these are like rubber rubber blocks that are pinned down. They have like kind of a front lip on them.

4:40 They're a little more aggressive than a permanent installation that has a smooth lip and is done with asphalt or concrete. So, next I want to talk about traffic volumes. Um there's extensive um amount of traffic volumes taken around this corridor on J Olympic and G Street. Um the full study is in the packet if you really want to dive into the analysis, but I'm going to give you mostly just the highlights um and important kind of kind of data. So I think um one of the first things I want to highlight is there was definitely a reduction on Centennial's corridor, a 23 to 25% reduction during the weekdays and a 23%

5:27 reduction for Saturday. Um, Centennial is classified as an arterial in our transportation system plan. Um, typically arterials have our higher volumes or higher speeds. Um, so you can see Centennial before around 7,500 now around 5,800 um in a weekday and 6,300 before, but now um almost 5,000 in the after condition. So definitely a reduction in volume on Centennial. Um, directly adjacent to Centennial to the south is J Street. J Street saw an increase in traffic. Uh, 21 to 23% increase during the weekday and a 46%

6:12 increase on Saturday. As I said previously, we did a lot of counts at different locations along these corridors. So, when I'm looking at this specific table, this is a count that was done just west of 28th on J Street. So, we're going to look after this at some counts that were done right in front of the school, which is on the other side of J Street on the 21st to 28th corridor. So, there was an increase. One thing I'll bring to your attention, since J Street is a local, it typically has lower volumes. So, there there was an increase um from 7:30 to 8.89 89 in the Thursday um from 7:36 to 8.93 um on the Friday and 435 to 633 on the

6:57 Saturday. So since the volume on a local is low um just 100 150 cars on there will give you a high percentage increase but it's not it's not like in the thousands that transferred from Centennial before. So if we if we switched back you see we lost you know a good,000 you know 1,700 on Centennial we gained you know 10050 on J Street. So it's not like the 21 23% was all of the traffic from the Centennial drop went to J Street. Um but for a local that's a significant percentage increase. We also had other locations. One other place that we definitely want to look at was right in front of the elementary

7:43 school. This also saw an increase, but in terms of percentage, a minimal one um looking like 6080, you know, during the weekday, not much of a change on the weekend. Um the trips that would have transferred from Centennial to J Street are less of the neighborhood trips. Those are more of the through trips, kind of the cut by trips. So keep that in mind as as you're looking at the numbers and you're making considerations about the effects of the traffic coming. We also looked at other parallel corridors. Olympic um like Centennials and Arterial Street, it has very high volumes. It increased um you know uh by

8:30 a good amount, not the full amount that Centennial dropped. Um it's a lower percentage um but it's a higher number because it already had a larger number on it already with about 15,000. So it went up from 15 or 16,000 to 165 or 167 to 174. Um not much change on the weekend. Um G Street is much farther down. Um it is a collector very much a a residential collector street. Um but it saw very minimal increases. So moving on to kind of public outreach once again we did um pretty good survey results. Thank you Mike McGilly and operations um for putting on the the the

9:16 public outreach campaign. Um so on on the left you're going to see um your initial kind of right after we installed the speed cushions. Um and on the right you're going to see the results after one year of them being in. Um so the first chart here is in your opinion do the new speed kitchens make Centennial safer? Um you know around 30% yes around 52% no. Um and a good 17 18% maybe in the before. I think all the may consolidated to the yes in the after. Um and so you had around 55 57% um no in the after and around 45% yes um

10:03 in the after or in your opinion have the speed cushions made Centennial safer? Um another general kind of graph that we saw um do you like the new speed cushions? This stayed pretty consistent between the first initial study and the second one with around, you know, 30% 33% saying yes, they do like the new speed cushions and around 66% saying no, they did not like the new speed cushions. Um, some general themes associated with the public outreach, residents on the corridor tend to support the trafficcoming. Um, citizens who do not live on the corridor tend to not support

10:49 these. At least one of the petitioners no longer supports the installation. Um, there was a general desire. Um, >> do we know why? >> Oh, what >> about the petitioner who changed their mind? Do we know the reason why? >> Um, it's in here a little bit, but yes. Um, they site noise. um they cite the the the design of them as being a little more aggressive. Um don't see it as much as effective and and kind of a distraction of the trucking kind of went somewhere else or when the trailers kind of go over these speed pumps, they leave a lot of material like nails and other things on the road um damaging vehicles. >> Okay, thank you.

11:35 Um, and once again, all of these comments um are located in the two different public outreach capes that are part of your packet, so you can read them as as you will. Um, there was also several comments about a desire for enforcement rather than installation. A significant number of requests for traffic calming from other locations came um out of this installation, this pilot installation for adjacent corridors, but also kind of citywide. Some other common themes were concerns about J Street, additional traffic and speeds, especially around schools. Um, one note, um, that wasn't in the analysis, but that I requested from the

12:20 traffic engineer, um, Kelly Sando, who performed the before and after analysis for us. I asked her to take a look at the heavy vehicle numbers um, before and after on Centennial and J Street. Centennial um, had a 36 daily trucks um, in the before and 30 in the after. J Street had a 27 um in the before but 64 in the after condition. Um percentages of trucks are rather low. So percentages don't really tell you much in terms of this. Um but that's one extra piece of data that I just got today from her kind of trying to frame what happened with heavy vehicles. Um some other um common themes were

13:05 design was a little too aggressive and loud. Um, as I mentioned, the temporary ones are a little more jarring because of their nature and some of um, their design. Um, speed cushions are damaging to vehicles. And then um, another common theme was these are great and want them imple implemented all over town. So with that, I'm here to answer questions. Um, looking for um, some feedback today from council. Um specifically, should the temporary traffic comeing measures remain and planned for as permanent installations? Um should additional speed cushions be explored on adjacent corridors or the 18th to 21st sections

13:50 of Centennial as originally planned? We had originally planned to put in between 18th and 21st. The actual petition and petitioners was 21st to 28th. And when we went out there to mark, some of the people between 18th and 21st were a little concerned, so we held off until we had the results from the pilot study to talk with council to put those final two installations in. Um, and then in general, how would council like staff to address additional requests for traffic calming throughout the city? um like a trafficcoming program with protocols and procedures or kind of stick to the status quo of us working it and then having them petition counsel. May not have enough time tonight to talk about that one. Um and you're more than welcome to table that for another time

14:36 or give us guidance as to what you want to see back from staff. Um but I will leave it at that. >> Yeah. Councelor Mo, >> can you describe to us the difference between speed cushions and speed bumps? >> So, a speed cushion typically is um a lot wider, a lot longer. So, as you're going down the street, it's going to be it's going to be something that's either 14 to 20 foot, 20 feet, 21 ft long, depending on what kind of speed profile you want. A speed hump is a very thin, aggressive, high jolting um thing. Cushions usually have emergency vehicle cutthroughs. They're usually only 3 to 4 in tall. Um and they're more of a softer

15:22 measure um that is more accommodating to emergency vehicles. >> Council Blackwell, >> uh thank you for the presentation. And I I do have a concern when I read through the information about the added uh traffic on J Street, especially around the elementary school where there's kids walking and maybe people that typically speed on Centennial speeding on on that road and it's kind of where do you where do you stop with this or you know and I I also want some clarification. You mentioned that the temporary um are more aggressive. So a permanent what's the difference there or what does that look like? So, these are hard rubber blocks that are pieced together like a puzzle and then pinned into the ground. Um um

16:07 they have a front lip on them kind of like your driveway >> that doesn't really allow for the the for the the tire to transition as smoothly up and then onto the the speed cushion, right? So, as a temporary installation, they're a little more aggressive. They're a little more rough. Whereas at a permanent installation with asphalt or concrete, we'd have a very smooth transition of the tires um and a and a smoother kind of transition to the tabletop and relief out of the traffic calming. So, >> can I get a followup? And also the the negative things that I've heard like in the community of people that have talked about it have been the spacing. The spacing is a little awkward and can you explain? I believe it was for fire apparatus to ride through properly or

16:53 something. There was something about the spacing that and I feel that too when I've driven through it. It's like, you know, kind of wonky that way. So, >> yeah. So, um the emergency vehicle cutthroughs are meant because the wheelbase of a firetruck is wider than a typical car. So, it's meant so that in an emergency, the firetruck can just go right down the middle without its tires going up or left and jarring them or slowing them down. Typical passenger cars have a narrower wheel basease. So they're forced to at least put one tire on it or both tires and that creates the vertical deflection that provides the traffic calming. Right? So there's spacing of the three cushions. That's strategic. We try to put it so that if somebody chooses to pick a tire, they put their tire in the

17:39 gap. We try not to put it in the bike lane, which I know some bicyclists don't like because they don't like hitting the lip either, which will be smoother with a permanent installation, but we do that on purpose because we don't want the cars to try to go into the bike lane to hit that gap with that. The second spacing is how often do you put them as you're going down the road? spacing according to various different design criteria tries to keep them close enough where people don't speed in between them to get up above that 85th percentile speed we're going um but not or not too far away that people speed up in between them but not so close that they have to like be jamming. So, we we try to keep

18:26 them between like there's a wide range depending on the speed profile, but 300 and 500. I think I got them around 400 feet for each of these. I'm trying to space them between the residential driveways the best I could so I didn't mess up driveway operations. But, um, if you want people to go faster, you increase the speeding that increases the speed in between the traffic calming measures. You want them to go slower, you make them narrower, more like a speed bump, like the 14 ft, and you put them closer together. >> Thank you. >> Um, thank you because I think you touched on just about all the questions that we talked about when we met. We're like, we want to make sure we're tracking these so so we can come back and and make whatever the next decisions

19:12 are. Um, I think it I was I had big concerns about G Street because it narrows and so I was a little bit relieved to see that it didn't bump up there, but I see that folks are going down J Street, which is right along the school, which is another challenge. Um, and I appreciate it. I wrote a note here and then you talked about it. In my chatting with folks, there's definitely been the feedback is different depending on whether you lived there and you were working forever to slow the traffic down and whether you drove through there and got very crabby that things had changed. So the difference between the residents and the travelers through I think was really interesting. And to the other requests, I also think that's really interesting because I think and this is I'm going to go a little bit just sort of opinion and anecdotal, but you know,

19:58 we talk a lot up here about the transitions in Springfield and that is a a perfect pilot neighborhood because we've done so much development. There's a lot of um industrial over there. There's now a lot of retail over there and there's just a lot of activity and you still have this these cozy little residential neighborhoods, some of which have wide streets and some of which have narrow streets. So, it's a great opportunity for us to just keep working at this until we figure it out because um I think that the the residents are right to be and it's probably when we look at the folks who like I want that over here. It's those neighborhoods where we're seeing them grow up and we're seeing the traffic change and we're seeing people want to be able to ride their bikes and walk and all of that stuff. Um, and the traffic still

20:43 wants to be able to move. So, it's going to be an interesting and challenging conundrum, but I love that we're on this journey and I'm looking forward to how we tweak it or do we adjust it or do we look try other things because I do think this is going to be important thing for us to figure out for the livability of Springfield moving forward as we are building more and packing and more and trying to lean into how people want to live in the city. So, thank you. I think we're we're off on a an interesting journey with this. Hi, council member. >> Thank you. Um, when we are talking about damage to vehicles, do we know if that is because of the design of the uh bumps or is it because people are going too fast over them still or is it a combination? Do we do we know that

21:32 >> the information that I'm citing in terms of concerns about damage to vehicles? The the one petitioner who changed their mind has been rather helpful in terms of sending me lots of pictures of nails and other things that have jumped off of trailers. But I don't have any specific reports from individuals. I don't have um anything from our risk management office for anybody with claims associated with any official damage. Um, I think with a lot of traffic calming because it feels rough and all of that, there's always that concern and there's always that concern about, well, I'm going up on one wheel that's and you're hitting one wheel. You're messing up my alignment. You're you're doing these other things and um it is a higher volume road, so that's a lot more cars hitting them all the time. Um, so hence

22:19 the the more damage. Um >> Michael referenced u the fact that it's a arterial and it's not common place for a city to make you know a project like this their first project on an arterial and we debated it u and argued it amongst ourselves and saw it sort of like your perspective. This is a industrial area yet residential and so it has a lot of the elements of both and uh so a little bit for me I wonder anecdotally if if it were 66th Street which is a collector between Thirsten Road and Main

23:04 Street would that be a little bit different because you're taking in a a school zone the same way uh but you you're not offloading onto as many smaller or local residential street. So, >> councelor Stone, >> thank you. Um, I know obviously these these um speed humps are are one way of calming traffic. Did we look extensively at things like tactical urbanism as a way of actually calming uh this road? I'm thinking things like, you know, adding additional ballards little by little. Um changing the width of the lanes. uh looking at, you know, adjusting how parking is aligned, improving bike access, all all those sorts of things, adding planters, you

23:50 know, things that actually pe slow people down visually, not necessarily by adding the additional hump in the um in the roadway. Do we look at that as a possible solution? And if so, if so, why was that not why was that not considered? Can we consider that on a future one? And if not, can we consider it in the future? Brian may need to help me on this one, but I think it was a more of a what can we do as quick as we can to alleviate the need kind of situation and the pin down rubber um trafficcoming was kind of the fastest thing to put in there. It doesn't it doesn't require concrete trucks. It doesn't it doesn't require a lot. There are other soft measures such as speed feedback signs that we we probably could have installed um that

24:35 have some limited effectiveness. Um and there's also some other design features which it it looking at the roadway right now it has landscaping strips but it doesn't have any street trees. So some of these features that narrow the roadway you know like parking or planting islands or even street trees um were not specifically contemplated because I'm assuming because we wanted to do something now and and take a look at it. So that's why these trafficcoming measures were were selected is soundabout. Yeah, I think I think you're correct. I think the thing that uh motivated us though was that the Ring cameras are pretty popular now. I would

25:20 see camera videos being sent to me with people doing 70 80 miles an hour on that stretch of road. So, it just seemed like, hey, this would be a good investment. we need to evaluate it because there isn't a policy uh you know a form for formal policy and then also do the analytics so that it will inform us uh some of the measures you're talking about councelor Stout uh I had discussed a little bit with our risk manager because she's from Eugene and there's quite a few streets over in Eugene that have the speed humps uh you know uh deployed So, um, that was a little bit in our assessment. Uh, let's

26:05 take a conservative approach. We could have put six humps in, we put four in. Michael designed it and then we decided to hold off with hold off at 18th Street, 221st because let's bite off a little bit less to start. >> Hi, Councelor Buck. And then we'll go back this way. >> Um, thank you. Um, yeah, I I can certainly appreciate how somebody would um equate the the jarring nature of the temporaries with vehicle damage. Um, there's a lot of things that can cause the same kind of damage. Um, I'm, you know, as as a driver, I'm never a fan of having to drive over the temporaries just because of the nature of them. But I am curious if we move to permanent

26:53 um what the implications for future maintenance becomes because as you're considering the life of a road um and maintenance and all of that putting those those speed homes the permanent ones in there does change that picture. I just don't know if it's by a little bit or by a lot >> profile of it. >> Yeah. Um, you know, one thing that operations did that was great is while we closed the road, they went out there and they crack sealed. So, they took the opportunity in the road to close to to get some extra light out. Um, but putting in the the the rubber speed bumps, it was in the tens of thousands of pins that we drilled into to put these rubber in. And so I think in terms

27:39 of if we put it in permanent, we would probably do that in line with a paving project that's going to need to happen here about the time that these actual rubber bumps from the number of impacts they're getting right now are going to go bad. Anyways, the long-term maintenance when we go through and we pave and then we pave these in with them kind of goes along with, you know, I would say I'm not I'm not haven't looked at the research yet, but if you if you put them in with the the paving as you do like a grind and overlay, you can kind of build the base and then they're like a lot more stouter than the temporary installations. um you know, hitting something that's a rubber block that's pinned is a lot different than something that's a continuous pore in there. But long-term maintenance, I don't know the the the data on how that

28:27 affects um I would only say that it's it's better to put them in as part of another paving project to have one ribbon as opposed to a broken. >> That makes sense. And and part of part of it is, you know, does it does it change the schedule and then also the long-term cost? I there might not be much change in the long-term cost, but um just curious about that. Um I think anytime you put deflection in and you you change how forces go up and down, right, you're you're going to have less long-term maintenance um and in just the physics of impacts and other things versus just a a rolling tire. Um,

29:12 so probably less a little less maintenance um without traffic coming than with just a smooth roadway. >> Uh, councelor Rodley. >> Um, and I I saw your hand going up too because you probably both want to jump in and so I'm I'm not going to speak for councelor Blackwell, but we were part of the conversations and I appreciate councelor Stout's questions around did we consider things? um yes to all of those things and also we were considering expense and this is really our first delving into this. It took us years to get stuff done on D Street and so this was like okay we're moving into a neighborhood and um not wanting to commit fully until we figured out what worked. So that was part of it too. And

29:57 and just I will just be honest and sort of say the things. I think it considering you know the the council that we had at the time and thoughts and considerations about things. Um we wanted to try to work our way into a Springfield kind of approach to traffic calming and not just borrow from here and there but start to kind of look at our unique situations and see what it is. So, um I think all of those reasons are why we didn't just go right to like let's start here. So, that's partly why I'm loving the feedback from people and just the feedback from folks who want to see us do more of it in other areas because that keeps us on that road to like how do we come up with the sort of Springfield answer to traffic calming in these neighborhoods that really need it.

30:43 Um, and I I just love how the conversation is shifting and I appreciate the the feedback and I'm again I'll say it looking forward to next steps, but there were some as we were making the decisions because they definitely brought it to us. It's like, okay, well, what's what's what's a step we could take without going from here to that all the way to the end and get the feedback from the residents who had been reaching out to both councelor Blackwell and I about the safety concerns so that we could figure out what the next road was. I have a I have another question if you have any data around the speed uh feedback signs. I don't know what exactly what they're called, but if if they're as effective and if there was like a significant cost difference. I just can't remember when we just discussed those or using those.

31:28 >> I was here then. Uh they worked when they were out. And so the new speed feedback signs with the radar detection where they're posted on a sign versus a piece of equipment. Um I'm not sure about that. I suspect he might know. Michael, yes, they do provide some speed reduction. It's not as aggressive of a speed reduction. um and it doesn't have the same long-term effectiveness of it um if there isn't a backup of um enforcement, right? Because we're always talking about the three E, you know, engineering, education, and enforcement. So, that one particularly is effective, but it it does require a little followup and it loses a little bit of

32:13 effectiveness over time as people get used to if there isn't a police officer to nail them. And we always try to keep those so they don't go higher than a certain speed. So teenagers don't try to hit the high mark on the speed sign. So >> all right, I got a couple of questions before and maybe Deputy Chief, if you can kind of wander towards the microphone. I got an enforcement question for you. >> I'm giving you the warning warning ahead of time. So when I when I read the feedback, I read kind of a a broad division in the community between if you live on a corridor where it's slower, you're you're a big fan of this and if you

32:59 don't, right, it seems it's high impact. And one of the questions that that we get all the time is what does it look like to do it with just like get the same benefit with just enforcement, you know? So, and I know and maybe you could start with commentary about how we all drive since the pandemic and then if you could just use your your swath of experience to say like how hard without some sort of engineering, how hard would it be to get this far without enforcement? >> It's really hard to affect uh speed in a residential or commercial neighborhood without regular enforcement. Enforcement, speed enforcement specifically is a moving target. Uh we we try to be reactive to citizen community complaints. We understand residential areas are tricky. People live there. They see it all the time. Uh

33:44 we really rely a lot on our uh eyes and ears on the street. Uh Michael, Brian's folks with operations when they're out and about working on the roadways, they're very observant about the areas and let us know and share with us, hey, we're seeing a lot of high speeds in these areas and we try to react to that. um from almost a neutral perspective, but uh just speed humps alone, just speed signs alone are not as effective without a certain level, uh of enforcement mechanism in place. Uh I'm a fan of the speed signs. I like those. It's it's almost a way of I want to say public shaming, but it does call out the speed not only to you, but everyone else behind you on the street. And people sometimes feel obligated to slow down. And if we have that data to act on, that'll show us the 34 to 37 mile per

34:31 hour range that uh Michael referenced on Centennial. That'll give us an idea what times a day we should be doing enforcement. It's just a moving target. >> And since the pandemic, do you think that traffic speeds are up or down? >> Traffic speeds are up. >> And and are they showing any uh sign of coming back down to what their historic norms are, or do we all just drive too fast? I'm looking over at the >> we we all drive fast. Um and I you know part of the blame or the credit goes to the great technology in our cars right now. Um going fast 20 years ago felt a lot different in our cars. The suspension wasn't as good, the engines were louder. There was more of a you had more feedback from your car that you're going too fast. Cars now, especially um electric cars had you don't you don't hear a loud muffler. You don't feel the

35:16 jarring motion. The cars are built better. So is I think that contributes to uh the speed increase. >> All right. >> All right. Thanks, Deputy Chief. >> You're welcome. >> So I think um like I think I'm comfortable with you know us you know like listening to what the neighborhood has has to say um you know leaving the mater uh leaving the speed cushions out there. I think the two questions I really have are one of them is my understanding of speed cushion sort of as a technology is I should be able to comfortably go through the entire corridor at the speed limit is that or should I have this kind of like screeching acceleration type motion.

36:01 So, what we're trying to do is get the speed within that right profile so that your 85th percentile speed and where we measure the 85th percentile speed isn't at the speed traffic calming device. It's at the midblock. >> Okay. >> Um, so what we're trying to do is keep that midblock in that sweet spot where the 85th percentile is between the speed limit and like five over, right? So, um you can smooth things out to try to keep um the cars going over it faster. Um but for the most part, you're trying to get them slower at the traffic calming, especially with like speed cushions so that as they speed up, they don't go higher speeds in between. >> They they don't launch.

36:46 >> Yeah. >> But you don't want them to get down all the way to really low below. I would one of the things I would love to see more information on is the distribution of the speeds especially before and after and just seeing whether or not there's you know how wide that distribution is um or if both times it's a relatively narrow distribution right because that is a significant change in the speed on the corridor and then I think if we sit back and I really think about where the community is and I'm thinking about the feedback we've seen on D Street the feedback we've seen on Mil Street the feedback we've seen here is there's an opportunity for us, I think, to really talk to the community about what these traffic calming measures look like before we do more and what they sort of feel like and sound like because one

37:31 thing that's really consistent is that dichotomy between people who live in the neighborhood think this is the best thing ever. You know, the rest of the citizen for me, the access because, you know, we are right like, you know, our traffic our traffic network is all connected together. You know, it feels like a high impact. Why are you doing this? And I think there's an opportunity really to start talking to people about why do we do treatment? How does, you know, the engineering, the education, and enforcement all link together to try to get speeds down? Because the thing we've got to that we've got to see from a public safety perspective is if we could get the speed down just a little bit, it would keep everybody safer. All right. Anybody else? I know we got housing next. Did you guys get enough direction?

38:18 Uh, so it sound sounded like to me that you want to keep them in and keep evaluating them for now and continuing to get feedback. Um, didn't hear if you guys wanted to move forward with the other two installations between 18th and 21st and whether or not you want us to come back with >> suggestions for any policy or staying with status quo in terms of how to okay >> address traffic. if we can get Go ahead. >> Thank you. I'll jump in on that. Um because the 18 to 21st is in my word and I I know we had talked about coming back and giving that a go. Um and I am supportive of giving that a try and people can come yell at me and we can figure out the things around that. Um

39:03 the other piece that I was going to say that I didn't I was I was very interested to see the data around Olympic because now I am not a traffic planner but the dream as we start to tweak this is to see people if you if you want through traffic to move through on those I you all have a name for them they're not the art the whatever they are the Olympic streets and the ones. So, it was good to see that that for me it was good to see that going up if people are moving from Centennial up to those streets that have more infrastructure and are able to handle that and to to figure out how to see less in the residentials and I know a lot of people drive through residentials because there's less police officers and all of those things. So, as we talk and I'm also very supportive of let's talk about policy and and what do we want to look at and how do we want to evaluate

39:49 it because that's how I'm thinking about it and if somebody can educate me if there's a different way of looking at it is like how do we if we're going to increase traffic let's increase it on those those roads and not put the burden on those smaller residential roads. Thank you. I don't know if that helps or hurts but >> before we go to councelor Buck could you clarify like what what type of road is Centennial? What type of road is Olympic? Uh both Centennial and Olympic are arterial streets. That's the highest functioning class before you get to a freeway. >> So realistically, right, like the path that we would be going down is, you know, changing, you know, a road that is designed to act as an arterial to a different type of road. >> Yes, that was part of the conversation we had with the residents too in making

40:34 this a temporary pilot project. uh that at some point in time in the near future we're going to be up against needing to resurface a road and we may go backwards depending on the discussions. >> Councelor Buck. So, um I just want to clarify just cuz you know I'm a little bit new to this and this is this is as much a question for you Corey and Commissioner Councelor Blackwell as as you guys. So when we're looking at this project, obviously safety is primary goal, but I I feel like I heard some other goals in there in addition to safety. That wasn't the only thing. And I that could be wrong, but my question is first of all,

41:19 you know, if that's the case, I guess, do we feel like we're addressing in addition to safety the other goals with this that that we set out to? and and I'm not sure what they were cuz I wasn't here at that time, but I I feel like this was a little broader than just let's slow things down to keep people safe. And so I'm just wondering if we're really hitting the mark on all of our objectives. >> I love that question. Um I think and I might have had my own personal goals and maybe councelor Blackwell had some too. Um because I think I it was it's it was a combination of things, right? So it's safe it definitely traffic calming and safety um for folks in the neighborhood and because of like changing traffic and

42:06 how things are like what do we do with that? Like how how do we take an arterial and change it so that it fits the changing needs of the community? So I think there was some if I was to say there was any other goal in addition to to the safety which was primary it was kind of fact gathering and education and and figuring out how we could do this. So I think and it was an opportunity to step into that sphere and support staff in in bringing us back the data that we would need to make these kind of decisions moving forward. Does that sound like I'm lying or I'm telling the truth? I'm not going to sit. >> Go ahead, Michael. >> Um, what I want to say is I can definitely put together a council briefing memo um to give you more detail

42:52 on kind of like the nuances of the arterial and the functional classification. It also ties into our TSP and future planned projects and which roads are classified to that. So, it's it's a larger can of worms that we may not have enough time to get to tonight. So, >> we're already 15 over. The housing folks are going going like this. Uh, go ahead. Are you sure? >> Um, I think I think a briefing memo would help us, right? And I think before and I think before we come back and have a conversation about installing more down the like a little bit more time for some more information, some more discussions would be helpful because I think we just articulated what the what the big policy decision is and and we're just starting to dive into it which is

43:38 this road's an arterial road today for the entire community. Are we making the policy decision to move it to a neighborhood road or change its functional classification? because that's effectively what you're leading us up to. And I feel like just having having time to have that conversation would would be helpful because the thing I keep thinking about is if we make that decision and we have all the transportation money we need to implement it, you know, what does it look like? You know, do we have capacity on those outer roads to sort of push traffic away from there? And I think that's a big decision that, you know, we just have to be, you know, uh, aware of. The other piece I think is valuable to note is again we're talking almost specifically about what that neighborhood's going through, right? And that neighborhood's really important in this conversation, but we do get

44:23 broad-based community feedback anytime where we talk about a road project where people are deeply concerned about how much like what the infrastructure on the road looks like. And there is time for us to have this conversation and share information with the community because I like they're going to be with us for the next step, maybe even the next step after that, but like there's questions people have that we're not answering yet and we just need to make some time to to have that conversation with our constituents. Anybody else got a brief one before we wrap that up? So, CVM, more information, then we'll work with the city manager maybe to find a little bit more time. if you could just kind of lead us up to that question about like are we changing this to from an arterial to a different functional classification. You guys did

45:08 a fantastic job with this and you know you have a you have a neighbor in the back who's been sitting there you know just so happy through this whole thing taking a lot of notes. All right. Thank you. >> I might have kicked it up to a false decision by saying that. I think that we'll be send that to us, but that's definitely part of what function is. >> Haley, is Chelsea coming with you? >> Uh, she will be when we get to her portion of the >> Thanks for your patience. We were just really excited about transportation tonight.

46:01 Okay. Um, I'm so excited to be here. Uh, it was funny today we had a staff meeting and we were talking about what we were grateful for um, after the Thanksgiving holiday. And I'm actually thankful to be here tonight to talk to you guys again. Um, I know you've been hearing from me a lot. Um, this is uh, pretty much the third meeting that I've had with you this fall. Um, so hopefully the last one for 2025 and you'll see me in 2026. Um, so tonight we're seeking some guidance on the housing and design initiative code and plan update project. What a mouthful. Um, and also the climate friendly areas project um with my co-orker Chelsea Hartman. Uh, she's a senior planner and project manager for the climate friendly area. She'll be talking when we get to her portion of the project hopefully um, a little later. And um also tonight my consultant is here and they'll be talking a little bit during the project with just some more background information before we

46:47 get into the policy questions themselves. I apologize there's a lot in the packet tonight. And of course um I'll be asking you a little later if you if we run out of time if it would be better for me to come back to you in January or um if you guys would like to reinitiate the governance committee um and prefer to meet that way to address some of these policy questions we might not get to tonight. So, I'm gonna turn it over to Jamon and have him cover the intro. Uh, >> hi, good evening, counselors. So, Jamon Kimmel with Cascadia Partners. Um, glad to be with you here tonight. Looking forward to the discussion. So, I'm going to start with um a reminder about sort of what we're trying to achieve with the um housing and design uh project. And we sort of categorize the um bigger picture

47:33 objectives of these code amendments in in four um four buckets here. And we thought this would be helpful to just uh orient you um because there are um a number of different code amendments to various districts and overlays. Um but really they all link back to these sort of four um four recommendations or objectives. Um so the first one is to allow housing in a mixeduse development in more locations. So, what we're specifically talking about there is where housing is paired with a commercial or other non-residential use and you know mixeduse development is a is a great thing and it's a um I think something that the city of Springfield wants to um support and so we're asking the question how can we allow that in more places in Springfield. We also want

48:18 to provide more flexibility for um how big a commercial space needs to be in a mixeduse development uh and how it's located and cited. Um some of the standards there may be make it impractical to uh build mixeduse projects and so how can we modify the code to make it a little easier to do that. We'll also look at allowing standalone residential development in more locations. Um, and there are some places in the mixeduse or commercial districts where where this might be appropriate and consistent with the city's policy goals, but the code doesn't allow that today. And then lastly, to encourage high density housing in all these places where in these commercial mixeduse districts, uh, housing is allowed to make sure that,

49:03 uh, it's developed at a high density, is an efficient use of land. Go to the next slide. So this slide sort of breaks down those four objectives and sort of provides a summary of um why we think those are important and consistent with the goals for the project. And then some very brief notes on how and where those um uh recommendations are implemented through the various amendments to the Springfield Development Code and the map. Um, I'm not going to spend uh much time going through each of uh those how and where questions. Um, that's really the the bulk of the meeting today. Um, but I think if you want to have a refresh and sort of get a higher level picture of

49:48 how this all fits together, this slide might be helpful to come back to. Okay, go to the next slide, please. So, our first topic we want to dive into is um where mixed use development is allowed in the city today. And um as a reminder, uh mixed use development is is mainly only allowed in the mixeduse districts today. Um and many of those are in the city's um proposed climate friendly areas. There's a couple of places where the um city is is recommending that we uh expand where mixed use development is allowed in current commercial districts. And so I'm going to take you through uh that proposal. So the largest area that would be affected in a current commercial

50:34 district, so not a mixeduse district, is along the main street or South A Street uh corridor. And there's generally two sort of parts to this uh corridor. So um and the proposal today would be um in the parts that are not in the east main refinement plan area which is shown in the the purple on this map and I'll address that shortly. So generally everywhere else in this corridor in the community commercial district proposal would be to allow for mixeduse development. So housing with a commercial or non-residential use on sites that meet a couple of criteria. So one, it's actually within uh that corridor. Uh and um so that'd be written into the code to um that the location is

51:21 is based on the distance from that um th those key streets. And then that the site is less than one acre in size. And so um the intent for this criteria is to reserve those larger sites on the corridor for um employment and commercial um uses. though those larger commercially zoned sites are uh more rare uh in the city and um they're needed to meet the um uh the need for jobs as well as um as housing. And so the uh intent there is to um make sure that those larger sites are preserved uh for uh employment uses only and so uh mixeduse development would not be permitted. Uh there are a number of sm

52:06 sites on this corridor that are under one acre in size. So it still would permit mixeduse development in a lot of places uh on this corridor. Uh just a few of those larger sites would be reserved to or only for commercial development. >> When we're looking at the map here, is that are those all parcels that are zoned uh community commercial or are they just the one acres? It's hard to tell on the map. I'm assuming that's all parcels. >> Those are all parcels. Yeah. So, um, one question that I do have specifically around 28th Street in that corridor, uh, in that industrial corridor, how many parcels that are there or less than one acre? And I think my concern is how close we would be potentially allowing

52:52 uh, mixeduse developments to currently heavy indust like currently heavy industrial sites. And they're not right on Main Street, but they're right off Main Street. I'm not uh familiar enough with that area to know, but I know uh Haley has done some mapping with city staff. So, I might see if she is familiar with that specific area and also know she has some standards proposed for when uh um housing or mixeduse development is adjacent to an industrial district. So, Haley, you want to take that one? >> Yeah. Um so, did you say 20th, Mayor? >> 28th. 28th >> in be in asking me to be patient and let you get to the part of the presentation also is a reasonable answer. >> So it was attachment five if you're

53:37 looking in your packet. I apologize. There were a lot of like attachments in this packet, but this one in particular, um, if you're looking at the map, this is just for the commercial districts. And right up in the the right hand corner, there's actually a list of the properties that are ab budding industrial. It's 23 in that segment between this would be between 14th and 28th. Um, so you're seeing the ones that are highlighted abuing industrial. I'm going to hop in because this is one of my number one concerns, too. So, I appreciate the mayor bringing this up um because I think that's that's and I'm looking forward to chatting about it, but that feels like a lot of properties to me and that's one of the areas of concern for me is the residential right up to the industrial in this particular area. Um, and I think the conversation

54:23 we had earlier is definitely informs how I'm thinking about this too because all of when we talk we tend to have these conversations separately around housing and mixed use and then we get to like who's going what kind of trucks and bicycles and walkers and things are going to be happening along those areas. So, um I'm I'm want to look more because I this is a concern for me is this this melding together of industrial and residential in those particular areas. >> We get too sidetracked. Why don't we keep going and then we'll get into the discussion. >> Right. So, we covered the generally on the community commercial district where mixed use development would be um

55:08 permitted. Um, can you switch back to that uh slide? I just want to call out specifically the east main area. Mixed development is already permitted there through the refinement plan and there are no changes recommended at this stage. So that allowance would continue in the future. And go ahead and go to the next slide. So outside of the main street corridor, the other uh district that uh we think would be appropriate to uh allow for mixed use development is the neighborhood commercial uh districts. I think these are natural locations to allow for a mixed use because they're already in with usually close to or sort of embedded in residential uh neighborhoods and um they're smaller sites that are not needed for uh those larger employment uses. Um and so uh the

55:56 proposal would be for mixeduse development to be permitted in the NC district. Okay. And with that, I think I'm going to hand it back off to Haley for some discussion questions. Thank you, Jeremy. Okay, first policy question of the night. Um this so I took um quite a few of these concepts to our housing and design technical advisory committee on November 12th. They had great fantastic feedback for me which you um will probably see if you're read through the um council briefing memo. Um but I'll be talking about them a little bit tonight too. So the first question was about um allowing single unit dwellings detached in the mixeduse residential district. Um so currently we do allow them but we are proposing a minimum density in the

56:42 mixeduse residential district of 20 units per net acre. Um and that would require a maximum lot size of about uh 2,178 square ft. So rather small. Um generally in order to achieve that density um the developer would need to go vertical. So you know generally that is not what we think of when we think of a single unit dwelling. Um, so the question is if you support retaining um the allowance for detached single-unit dwellings in the mixeduse residential district. When I looked um it was very hard to find any properties that were singleunit dwellings in the mixeduse residential districts currently even though we allow them. Um and the TAC when I took this question to them had had mixed opinions about continuing to allow it. Some thought that it would be misleading to

57:27 developers um as it may not be feasible to meet that minimum density. Again we talked about that minimum lot size is very small. Um, others wanted to to try to meet that density option option. So, >> okay. What do we think? Let's see. Go ahead, Councelor Rodley. >> I also have mixed feelings about this. I mean, I think I think yes, we want to re I sort of started looking at it backwards. Yes, we want to reach the minimum density standards. Is this going to help us get there? Probably. Are there going to be some repercussions? Probably. Um, so I don't think I want to pick this as a hill to die on, but I'm not like 100%. But I'm an okay. I'm all right. Maybe one step over the line.

58:12 >> Anybody else? >> Uh, councelor Stout. >> I just like making thing giving developers as many options as possible. >> Councelor Buck. Um, conceptually it seems rather difficult to um to find the type of uh the type of housing within, you know, 20 20 single units within an acre. Um, and again, if we're talking about um a structure that goes vertical, um, are we still considering that a singly single dwelling unit? Because to me, that's more like a town home kind of,

58:59 you know, kind of feel. And that makes more sense to me. um trying to put small units that are not in that design that are that are stand 20 standalone units. Um I don't think that I would support. Um but if we're if we're including a town home style where it's like here's one physical structure but it technically has multiple units in it. We're still saying that fits in the then that makes more sense to me. >> Yeah. And in the climate friendly areas, we do have to allow town homes, too. I'm not going to like quote go into too much. >> No, I'm just I'm just trying to I'm just trying to make sure I understand the the definition we're working on on single family because you said it's not traditionally what we think of.

59:44 >> It's a vertical. Yeah. >> You know, um you know, I'd be more open to the vertical, but if we're talking about a single structure, that's then I'm not super supportive of that idea. That's what Michael I was just going to go back to uh what councelor Stout said. I would I would support anything that opens it up to the developer to kind of decide what fits and what's feasible. >> Uh I think I'm in the let's give as many options as possible. >> Okay. >> Um even though that might be challenging to uh to make that work. I the the math makes a lot of s like that it would be uh challenging. So but let's leave as many options as possible. >> Great. And I'm going to go um piggyback

1:00:31 on the next question which is similar and this is about allowing middle housing in the mixeduse residential and mixeduse commercial districts again if they meet that minimum density standards. Um the TAC question the proposed density standards of 20 units per net acre. Again um if it could be difficult to meet that standard. one um wondered if the if we had looked into any scenario planning studies um for small lots um you know that's something we can continue to look into if the city council is in favor of continuing to allow middle housing in the mixeduse residential and mixed use commercial districts um some were in favor of reducing that minimum density standards um believing that it placed a burden on housing um but I do want to point out that right now we only have density standards in the mixeduse residential district.

1:01:23 >> Yeah, I'm seeing some head nods. >> Great. >> Okay, >> that that's easy. We can move on. Okay. Um, so the next question I I know we're itching to get to. Um, this is about applying maximum height standards when a mixeduse development with residential use is above an industrial district. Um so on the screen it was a little difficult for me to find some examples but this is um the potential future mixeduse employment district near Laura Street um which I know we talked about previously at another council um meeting. Um so the TAC kind of questioned the intent of this um if we were building housing in industrial district or allowing housing above an existing commercial or industrial use. So they thought of this as like a live work unit. Um why were we proposing to limit the height? um they kind of just

1:02:09 didn't see that as is that enough to um reduce kind of the the compatibility or negative impacts of residential in close proximity to industrial. Um so some were in were were in favor of not requiring a maximum height for residential uses. Um but they also acknowledge that right now the market is does not really support those taller buildings. So it's it's really going to depend on what the future market holds. Council Bradley, >> I think and to what my some of my colleagues said earlier about allowing for as many options for developers as possible. I think I am in the not applying a maximum height standard on this one um and seeing how it develops. I know uh we can come back to this if we need to, but it seems kind of it seems like one of those things that feels a little bit arbitrary like now we say

1:02:54 this because of how things are. So I'm open to not doing this. I actually have a technical question before. Do we know, so this is over in my neighborhood, right? And some of the challenges that I've historically seen with residences touching industrial is really around sound. Is there like any um thinking around does the does is there any impact from the industrial section with higher buildings? >> I think that was a concern that we didn't quite reach consensus on. You know the the proposal initially could be

1:03:39 you know if you install a wall or you install landscaping does that reduce the noise? Um, and I don't know if we have clear results on that. That would be it would probably require more research on our end to determine if if reducing the height or building walls or installing more landscaping would make a difference in the noise. >> I I don't think I'm concerned about the height in in principle. I think I'm more like I think I'm more concerned about sort of design standards and how they and and they attach to the noise because the neighbors that I've interacted with over the years that have this particular problem, it is a high impact problem that impacts people's sleep and livelihoods and all of those things. So if the if the if the TAC or you guys

1:04:26 staff research it and go, "Okay, look, you know, we just have to include, you know, standards around the wall. If you're going to do it, I'm fine with that." or if there's other additional research to, you know, deal with the noise issue, um, I could be fine with this. But I think pulling on that thread a little bit more is gonna going to help us. Anybody else? >> Okay, we'll keep going. Um, so the next proposal that I know you guys have heard from me before, but we're just going to reiterate and make sure that we have clear consensus on this is preparing to um replace the Booth Kelly mixeduse district and the mixed use light medium industrial community commercial district with the mixeduse employment district. Um, so some of the key changes with this um

1:05:12 were to the light medium industrial community commercial property and that's along Pioneer Parkway Q and 126. um were that multiple unit housing would be allowed as a second seconds second story use if part of a mixeduse development. So you would still have commercial industrial on the ground floor and residential above. Um we'd allow a wider range of retail, office and institutional uses um than than we currently allow today. So again, we're not trying to limit the uses. We're trying to encourage more development in those areas. Um and then we would do away with the limit that is currently there for commercial uses to be no more than 40% of the district. So right now it's limited to 40% could be commercial in that area. And then to booth Kelly mixed use the only proposed change um

1:05:57 that is key here is that we would say that heavy manufacturing and production uses would require a discretionary use permit where currently they're permitted outright. So um so the important question here is uh first for Booth Kelly mixed use the code says that residential uses must be encouraged as a second story use above commercial and industrial uses and must not occupy more than 35% of the mixeduse employment district. So in keeping in pol in keeping with the existing policy language does council support residential uses in the mixeduse employment district only as part of a mixeduse building or development. So again that minimum of 60% of the total ground floor area of all buildings on

1:06:43 the site must be occupied by a commercial or industrial use. And then when I took this to the TAC, there was broad support again for um that 60% of the ground floor area being a commercial or industrial use. Um but residential uses on the second story of a building. >> Councelor Rley, >> I'll go first and then if people can I mean I think I'm okay with this. I do want to go back though. The one thing I want to poke around a little bit about is that permit. The now there's a discretionary use permit because we're changing the land use. That feels to me like something that people have been able to do. We're suddenly making it harder for them to do. To what end, I guess, is my question. Um, if it's

1:07:29 it ju it it just feels like there's like some extra layers in this one that are cumbersome and confusing. And not I'm not trying to pick on anybody, just like this one just feels like we've we're moving some things around and making it a little bit harder. So, I'm interested if other people see that it would make sense to have a permit for something that people have already been allowed to do. Even though they still could do it, it just feels like something that is cumbersome. the counselors don't >> um I don't mind a lot of the language in the suggestion but again the per the disc whatever discretion discretionary permit I think is a huge turnoff for encouraging industrial development and I know industrial development is slow right now but that said I think that

1:08:14 would substantially change the character of what we're looking for as opposed to not even if functionally a person could come down to city hall and get a permit that extra step with respect back to the private sector is going to be a huge turnoff. So, I would not support that. >> What was the logic at the tack behind adding the discretionary use permit? >> Uh, I believe I might ask Jam in this one because I think this came from Cascadia. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So the um current uh LMI/CC uh district is a little less clear on how it would permit um a use that would be classified as heavy manufacturing and production. So I think many of the uses

1:08:59 that are there today would be classified as light manufacturing and production and those are permitted outright and would continue to be in the future. But um heavy manufacturing um is currently um a requires a discretionary use permit in the light industrial zone generally. But because this one district is a little bit um the way the regulations were written, it was a little unclear that our interpretation of something that would be most similar to the current regulations would be to continue to require a discretionary use permit for that heavy manufacturing and production. And so there's that part of it with LMICC, but then we're also trying to apply the same district now to what's currently BKMU. Uh, and so what we were looking for is

1:09:46 how can we make sure we're trying to not change too much of the actual um regulations that apply on the ground to things that aren't housing. And so the the discretionary use permit there was really just trying to find something that was um most like the current standards uh in the LMI CC district that just happens to require more of heavy manufacturing and production uses in the PKMU district. Um so, uh the the thinking behind that was mainly trying not to to change too much of what the current regulations are. Um but the discretionary use permit in general

1:10:31 would give the city an opportunity to evaluate a um a use that have may have more impacts on uh a residential um within an within um a development that has residential uses close by. So that's the heavy manufacturing and production things that get classified in that are more likely to have an impact. And so that discretionary use permit gives the the city the opportunity to maybe attach some special conditions to uh that application and mitigate for some of those impacts. >> And what's an example of a of a heavy production use, a heavy industrial use versus a light industrial use? Yeah, there's some some like characteristics that the code would

1:11:17 require the you know the um the the the use would be evaluated based on those. Um I'm thinking of one like um you know it's usually it's trying to figure out whether it's light manufacturing or heavy uh manufacturing as the the you know key decision there. Um, and heavy manufacturing might involve more things that are um like a a larger product that um uh has more different components uh coming into it. Um potentially has more um uh uh impact of um like you were talking about with noise and sound um and potentially um you know other other impacts um or truck

1:12:03 traffic. Um and so um trying to come up with a specific example, but the the idea is that um those ones that have um more impacts would be subject to additional review. >> So I'm going to look at the staff. Is uh is is Roseboro would that be a heavy manufacturer or a light manufacturer? >> Yeah, >> I've got the code up. >> Yeah. >> Um so this is from the industrial use category section and I think the same language would apply. I pulled that up while Haley was doing other stuff. Happy to read from it. Um, heavy manufacturing and production refers to manufacturing from raw materials, processing from raw materials, or assembly of goods is kind of the brief definition. Um, examples of heavy manufacturing and production uses include, but aren't limited to, lumber

1:12:48 mills, pulp and paper mills, other wood products, manufacturing, manufacturing or processing of metals or metal products including enameling and galvanizing, biotechnology, manufacturing or processing of chemical, rubber, leather, clay, bone, plastic, stone, concrete, glass materials related projects, products, >> food and beverage and related manufacturing, um, textiles and apparel, woodworking, cabinet makers, production of energy, paper products, other similar material. materials or manufacturing processing. So I think at booth Kelly we have several tenants that fall under that category currently. >> Okay. Thank you uh councelor Rodley. >> Thank you. And I appreciate people taking time to dig into this because I think it has um helped to clarify that I am a big no on it. And I'll share that one of the things I was thinking around about the lens is I appreciate that that

1:13:33 folks are trying to like because it's messy. So we're trying to get the code to fit into this place and we've named it this so now everything has to fit into this. But I think we also have to look at it as like how are people living and working and and being in Springfield and try to get our regulations to get either to support that or get out of the way. I don't think we want to come in and like change the way we're using this to make it fit a thing. So, um because we have those businesses in there and I just don't want to make it harder for people that have been able to do the things to that they've been able to do to do them. So, I'm a no on this discretionary. >> Great. Anybody else? I think I think the question that I'm walking away from this is like I'm I'm going to know on the on

1:14:19 making a discretionary use. Um is I think specifically to Booth Kelly, the the portion I'm thinking about is is an economic site, right? That is one of the few places that has a rail, you know, available rail spur and is a solid for industrial uh development. So, I think I'm trying to weigh um do we are we choosing it for it to be a housing site and a mixeduse site? Are we choosing it to be, you know, a heavy industrial site? Because I think what's going to happen is effectively it's going to be one or one of the one of those. We've got to kind of think through that and we've got to ask ourselves the question like is are the uses that Christina just read compatible with, you know, having people housed there on a regular basis? Yeah.

1:15:06 So any >> can I ask a follow-up question that I think that maybe Haley and and J and he haven't anticipated but based on what I'm hearing would help me in reviewing draft code in the industrial districts in the heavy industrial district there are a number of specific heavy industrial uses that require discretionary use approval even in the heavy industrial district. Would it be consistent with council's direction that those limited heavy industrial uses be subject to similar review processes in these areas or is it your intent? So examples are um waste related uses. So like the transfer station's a good example. Um explosives or fireworks manufacturing. Um automobile wrecking

1:15:51 operations, slaughter houses um are the I think the main examples. I think there's some um industrial source for example needed a discretionary use approval because they use um explosive gases. Um and so that was like a process that they had to go through not in any of these areas but as a recent example. So your question would be like should we apply the same standards as the current zone? >> Yeah, my my understanding is council's generally giving direction to staff to apply the same level of review. Um so those uses that require discretionary use approval in industrial zones would still require that potentially for Booth Kelly. Yes. And LMIC. Okay. >> Yep. >> Excellent. Well, you guys jumped ahead to the fifth one. >> Well, we knew we were checking them off

1:16:37 early. >> Yeah. So can I get just a clarification real quick on number four? Is there support then for 60% of the ground floor area and residential above on the second story? This would apply to the Booth Kelly mixed use and the mixed use LMI CC don't district >> I think. Yep. >> Okay. All right. Excellent. So we'll go four, five, and six. Um so this last question um in the mixed use districts is about the conceptual development plan development area plan policies. This is in a downtown refinement plan. Um, and there's also a little bit of code about it in actually in our development code. Um, it's a lot of these refinement plan policies are covered in the um, council briefing memo. So hopefully you guys read it. Um, but I just want to talk

1:17:24 about um that there reason we're talking about it is that in particular for the conceptual development plan um, there's really no approval standards in the code um or they're only required in the booth. Kelly mixed use in the campus industrial district. So we only have those applications for those two districts in particular. Um so again the question would be kind of how do we want to handle this type of application. Um we can retain the existing policies and the existing code requirements which would say that we have to continue to require a conceptual development plan. Um but generally that conceptual development plan applies to the entire Booth Kelly mixeduse district. Um or we can go into some you know a different process. We could incorporate some of these policies in into the development code to be addressed through a master

1:18:09 plan process or site plan review process. A master plan process um again usually it's five acres or greater and the applicant desires to phase the project over seven years. So that is kind of a similar application process to that conceptual development plan. Um, and that'd kind of be like a bigger bigger process, bigger application long term as opposed to a site plan review application, which could be for a minor redevelopment, minor construction. Um, and we can define what that means in the development code. And then finally, for option C, we would remove some of these policies from the downtown refinement plan altogether. We would not, you know, we would not replace it. We just strip that requirement

1:18:58 Go ahead. >> I feel like I should probably know the answer to this, but um I'm just curious what the requirement um what the existing requirements, you know, are doing for us and and and how they're they're helpful currently. Um because I can see how they could be viewed as barriers. Um, but I'm trying to think, okay, what are what are why are they in place? What are what are they creating guard rails for? And um and for whatever reason, that's not coming to top of mind right now. Yeah, it the policies um in particular that the conceptual development plan was kind of designed to protect or guide were some of the the mill race

1:19:43 improvements that we um did and developed and and completed around 2017. Um so we've already kind of done a conceptual development plan for Booth Kelly. We do keep that on record. We do keep um those those policies and and documentation how we meet those downtown refinement plan policies especially for mil race um restoration, storm water improvements, things like that. Um, but that doesn't necessarily address kind of again that long-term how do we want Booth Kelly to look. So, >> so am I hearing you correctly that um we put those in place for a purpose. It's kind of served that purpose and and maybe maybe it's kind of, you know, time to say, okay, this has done what it needed to do, and

1:20:28 maybe it's time to let that one go. >> Yeah. I mean I I mean I think it would depend on um if if we think we have satisfied these policies. >> Yeah. Councelor Rodley. >> Um thank you for uh poking around on this one, Councelor Buck, because I was trying to unpeel it and um and one of my goals as we've moved through this process is to try to come out with less regulations than we had going in. So for reals um to make it easier for people to live and do all the things that they need to do. So, I think I'm in a middle place on this one as you all have talked it through. Like, I still want to protect the meal race and I want to protect the water and I want us to be paying attention to that. So, I don't want us to completely strip those away. So, is there a way for us to do I think you say something in here like a phasing

1:21:14 or a come back and talk about it or put in some some guard rails but get rid of the ones that we no longer need. >> Yeah. And I I think that's that Yeah, that's the intent. I I would argue kind of a master plan process is to again to look at those those policies, look at that phase plan, what what it's going to look like long term. Um but it, you know, I have talked to the city manager's office um about, you know, is this kind of a barrier to to redevelopment or some some minor improvements on the Booth Kelly site and they have said yes, it can be a barrier to development. If we need to do a minor improvement and then the code says the only way you can do that is you have to submit a conceptual development plan application. Um, so >> so is is thinning it here an option,

1:21:59 right? Like like I I think what you're hearing is like we can if if there's no impact to sort of removing it, right? Then you know, then I think we're open to doing that. And if there's a scenario where from a staff perspective, you you're looking at it and saying, "Hey, in this very specific scenario, we're concerned about it." Then I think we're open to, you know, a much more narrow scenario. >> Great. Sounds good. All right. Um, I'm gonna have Chelsea join me to talk about climate friendly areas. Okay, I'll see what I can get through and then I guess pause whenever you want for figuring out how do you want to handle the rest of the questions. So, we have the Good evening, Mayor and

1:22:44 Council. I'm Chelsea Hartman here for Climate Friendly Areas. I was last here with you all on this topic back in February when you gave us direction to designate the Glenwood Riverfront to become our primary climate friendly area and then downtown and Mohawk will be our secondary. I'll just be talking about downtown and Mohawk tonight since those are being implemented with our climate friendly area overlay district and those work in conjunction with the base mixeduse districts that Haley was just talking about. Um, we will come back to talk about the Glenwood Riverfront in 2026 and we've been coordinating closely with the Glenwood master plan team to make sure the intent of those changes that are moving forward will be maintained. Um, so in the downtown and Mohawk CFAs, um, we'll continue to allow

1:23:32 or to not allow standalone residential on lots with frontage on arterial streets in the mixeduse commercial district. So we talked a little bit about arterials in the previous work session. Um those streets in the CFAs are Main Street, South A, Pioneer Parkway, 14th, Centennial and Olympic. And that is really to maintain our employment land supply on these key corridors. Um for mixeduse commercial lots that do not have frontage on arterials and on all of our mixeduse employment sites. So, what Booth Kelly mixeduse will become, standalone housing will be allowed and for mixed use residential, that's already the case. And then lastly, mixed use and standalone non-residential will be allowed

1:24:18 throughout the downtown and Mohawk CFAs. And the intent of this is really to try to balance opening up more opportunities for housing and uh maintaining our employment land supply. I only have two questions for you tonight on the CFA overlay district. Uh the first one is about if the city should prohibit or limit new automobile oriented and automobile dependent uses in the CFA overlay district. The state rules do not require cities to prohibit these uses, but there are rules for walkable design standards. Currently, existing autoor oriented and autodependent uses within the downtown exception area, which covers most of the mixeduse commercial area within the downtown CFA may remain or expand as permitted uses. And staff

1:25:04 is proposing to expand that allowance to the entire CFA overlay to allow for growth of existing auto uses, but to prohibit new ones. The main area where the standard would be expanded to apply is the part of the downtown CFA between 8th and 14th Streets. Um, based on the TAC feedback, staff outlined a few potential approaches that are listed in order from most to least restrictive. We could continue to prohibit new auto uses while allowing existing uses. This is most consistent with our existing adopted policy and code. Another option would be to be more specific about particular uses that should be prohibited instead of referring to the broad use categories. A third option would be to allow as discretionary use subject to specific

1:25:49 standards. And then finally, we could just allow them outright as permitted uses. So I'll turn it over to you all for your thoughts on this one. >> Council Rodley, >> just want to say out loud on behalf of my colleagues, these are a lot of very big decisions in a very short amount of time. Um h um I think and I think that when you said this is between this is on main street between something and something right >> 8th and 14th would be the big area where it would change. >> So our main street is used for so many things right and whenever we try to make changes we have to take into consideration the truck usage and the bus usage and all the things that are happening there. So that is what is making me concerned about saying we are

1:26:35 going to we're going to clamp down. We're not going to allow additional things because this this feels counterintuitive to me to we are going to allow businesses and we want to encourage people to do all the things but we're also going to make it harder for you to do all the things. Um so I think I am a I don't want to do this but I'm also really interested to hear how my colleagues are reading this. Um because I I just I just the less things we prohibit or limit while we're trying to encourage growth seems to make sense to me. >> Councelor Buck, >> u appreciate your comments there, Cory. I guess my thought is as I look at that map and I think about um part of that

1:27:21 area, you know, along 14th, you're talking about the hospital. There's numerous clinics down there. Um, the Wama Park is right next to that. And then I and I kind of think about that area and we're talking about automobile oriented independent uses. I mean, those are those are hightraicked areas and so I'm not sure how that I mean, that's how people are going to get to those, you know, the hospital and clinics and things like that, whether it be buses or or or they're driving themselves. And so I'm having a hard time conceptualizing the limitations

1:28:06 given some of the some of the things that are down in that area. Um and maybe I'm missing something here, but uh could you clarify the the northern limit on the map for the CFA look? >> Yeah. So for the downtown Thank you. for downtown. Um, it's really along Main Street between 8th and 14th is the area that would be this new. So, right now in the nodal development area that exists in downtown and Mohawk, this is pretty much already the case of prohibiting a lot of auto oriented uses. And what we're really talking about is this would be a new thing that would apply along Main Street between 8th and 14th where there are some auto uses like Lithia,

1:28:51 Toyota, there's some gas stations. Um, I think the real big question is, do you want to allow more new uses like that or would we want to just allow these existing uses to continue or to be able to expand or do we kind of not care and just allow whatever to continue uh moving forward? >> Yeah. >> Can can I sorry um does everybody understand the difference between auto oriented use and autodependent use? >> So maybe it helps with that. >> Okay. And >> yeah, so I think the main difference so auto oriented is really drive-throughs essentially is a good example of that. Um where vehicles are an integral part of the use. The autodependent is where

1:29:36 uh vehicles are basically served by the use. So things like vehicle repair, gas station, car wash or auto sales. >> Can we split them? Yeah, I think that was one of the things the TAC um suggested was these are really broad use categories. We could be a lot more specific about certain things we don't want to see instead of just so prohibitive. >> I I I think my or or my head it like we want the community to grow and develop. And I think if you think about the descriptions you have is maybe we we can sort of crack them, you know, in half. Like I would I'm fine with drive-throughs, right? like I'm fine with um but like in that corridor about allowing new sort of repair shops or right like or new things that remove

1:30:21 buildings. It seems like we've cho we've already chosen from a policy perspective for it to develop with higher density because it's in the CFA. Um, so maybe if we could get probably more alignment around, hey, those things that are more autodependent that um that would uh allow like allow people to interface with the business easier, like the drive-throughs versus, hey, like look, Lithia's been down there, they've been a great partner for a while, right? Like, but maybe we don't need three new Lithia dealerships down there. >> Lithia has been a great partner for a while, but I'm using it as an example. Okay, we've got a ton of people queuing outside. Um I think Nancy, if we we

1:31:07 might after off of agenda review, we might have had more time on work for work session next week and if we had if if there's another half an hour that we can continue this conversation. I feel like the materials aren't going to change, but we're only about halfway through this conversation. Mayor, I do believe we have some additional time, perhaps about 15 minutes left, unless we move something else from the agenda, but we can perhaps discuss that. Um, >> okay. Well, yeah, let's let's talk about it to see if we can squeeze some more time in because like if we feel like we're only about a halfway through this and I'd like to, you know, if we can get it a little bit further along before we hit January, >> you right. We'll we'll get some time on

1:31:52 the agenda. It does warrant further discussion. I see our clerk is making note of that now. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and adjourn the work session. We will reconvene here in a couple of minutes. I'm going to start waving it folks to >> I'm going to call the regular session of the Springfield City Council to order with a roll call. Mayor Van Gordon here. Councelor Weber >> here. >> Councelor Rowan >> here. Councelor Rodley >> here. >> Councelor Blackwell >> here. >> Councelor Beck >> here. And councelor Stout >> here. Thank you. >> All right. Please join me in the pledge of allegiance.

1:32:56 There are two items designated for public public testimony this evening under public hearings and business from the audience. If you are attending, excuse me, uh in person, please complete the request to speak card located at the front of the council chambers and turn them into the city recorder. If you're joining us online with a tablet, smartphone, or computer and wish to speak to either of those times, please use the raise hand feature in Zoom. The order of public testimony is as follows. Anyone in person in the council chambers and then anyone who has raised their virtual hand. Uh first item, please. Mayor, the first item is the consent calendar. >> I move to approve the consent calendar. >> Second. >> All right. Can you call the vote? >> Yes. Councelor Weber, >> yes.

1:33:41 >> Councelor Mo, >> yes. >> Councelor Bradley, >> yes. >> Councelor Blackwell, >> yes. >> Councelor Buck, >> yes. >> And councelor Stout, >> yes. Thank you. >> Motion passes, six yeses, zero nos. Next item, please. >> Uh, next item is you have one public hearing this evening. Public hearing item number one is consideration of exemption from the city of Springfield's public contracting code to allow for the use of construction manager general contractor CMGC project delivery system for construction of the Springfield city hall deferred maintenance and department consolidation project Jeff Pascal is here for this item. >> Thank you Neil. Uh good evening council mayor. Um tonight we're asking the council to hold a public hearing um to consider authoriz authorizing use of the um construction manager general

1:34:27 contractor or CMGC uh delivery method for the city hall deferred maintenance and department consolidation project. Um as presented to the council at earlier work session um city hall is uh has extensive deferred maintenance needs and outdated system uh that must be replaced to ensure safe and reliable operations. Um because these systems are inter interconnected throughout the building and be and because construction must occur while the city hall while city hall remains occupied. Uh the project requires careful phasing, sequencing and coordination. Um also we have long lead time materials and constraints that further um increase the project's complexity. Um this makes this project really suitable for the CMGC

1:35:13 methodology. Um the CMGC methodology allows us to bring the contractor in earlier to work with the design team. Um it helps us get better costing, helps us coordinate better with phasing um and also do better valuation um and uh engineering valuation so that we can get the cost down to reasonable hopefully reasonable like we had stated. We want to try and get that down around $12 million. Um, to use the CMGC method, council must adopt findings showing that the al that this alternative contracting approach will not encourage favoritism or reduce competition. Um so part of the packet that you've seen is we've outlined those findings for you to review and then

1:35:59 following um so then asking you to open a public hearing and then consider that methodology and I'm here to answer any questions. >> Are there any questions? >> All right, I'm going to open a public hearing. I don't have any cards for this item. Neil, do we have anybody online? We have two hands online and I'll ask that they put their hand down if it's not for this item and then they can put them right back up. Okay. No hands for this item. >> All right. Then I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing. And I'm >> I move to approve a resolution

1:36:45 authorizing an exemption to bidding requirements pursuant to OS279C 3351 and Springfield Public Contracting Ordinance SMC 2.7000 through 2.713 for construction of the Springfield City Hall Deferred Maintenance and Department Consolidation Project. >> Second. >> No. Could you call the vote, please? Councelor Weber, >> yes. >> Councelor Mo, >> yes. Councelor Bradley, >> yes. >> Councelor Blackwell, >> yes. >> Councelor Beck, >> nay. And councelor Stout, >> yes. Thank you. Motion passes. Five yeses, one no. Next item, please. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, mayor. The next item is business from the audience. Okay. Um, let me tell

1:37:34 right now I've got 20 cards for this. And before we get start calling folks, we only have 20 minutes for this item. So, we need to discuss if we're going to shorten folks, if we're going to extend the item or what we could go an extra we could go 40 minutes and check in and see how we're doing. We kind of need to make a decision on how we're I said nods enough, Mayor Bridg, or do I need to get them to put it in a motion? Um, I think what I would recommend at 40 minutes, do the check-in and see what you want to do and then you can take a vote and a motion depending on what you want to do then. >> Okay. So, right now we're saying we're going to allow allow 3 minutes. We're going to extend the time at 40 to 40 minutes and then at 40 minutes we're

1:38:19 going to check in to see how many cards we have. Does that sound good? All right. Hi, thanks for coming. I know it is a lot to uh come down to city hall and get organized in a big room to testify. Thanks for a little bit of patience while we get organized. What I'm going to do is everybody's got three minutes. Um but there's two microphones up here. So I'm going to call you guys uh two at a time. Um and then we'll go uh between each person for three minutes and then we'll call the next two two folks up. All right. Um, you need to state your name and then just whatever you're comfortable with. Um, it could be your city, your address, your ward number if you know it. Uh,

1:39:06 just some basic information so that we understand what part of what part of the city you're from. The first two speakers that I have are Donna Riddle and Tom Bergland. if you hit the button, it should go green when you're ready. >> Um, I'm Donna Riddle. I live at 19th and I Street in Springfield and I'm here speaking as a person who

1:39:54 has white privilege, but I'm also speaking as a person, a mom of a brown child who I have a lot of fear in my heart because I'm worried that ICE might grab him even though he's a Native American. American and is more American than any of the rest of us here. But ICSE is grabbing people who are brown and they're deporting them. And I really want to hear Springfield

1:40:41 weigh in on the fact that we are a sanctuary city. that brown people shouldn't be afraid to go to school or go to the grocery store or just live their lives without feeling that they might be arrested and deported without any process. So, please, please speak up and acknowledge that this is a sanctuary county. It's a sanctuary city and we need to hear from you.

1:41:27 So, before we get too far into this for the evening, um there's no signs, there's no clapping, uh you no disruptions in city hall. I'm glad we got that one out of the way early on because we got quite a few more cards to go. So, thank you so much. Go ahead. >> Hey, I'm Tom Bergland. Uh I live in Eugene. I have al also have grandchildren who are uh have Hispanic father and um and I know a lot of people in Springfield. I worked here for 40 years. Um I'm a descendant of lost wagon train pioneers. Um I was a Republican for 50 years. I'm just saying I represent what Springfield was not too long ago. Um, but uh

1:42:16 I got to say I I really believe that we we in the United States need to follow our Constitution. And I think I always thought that was like Supreme Court stuff, but I really believe that down at the local level that we have things that we can do and say also. And uh I believe in due process and I think that we need to make sure that that is employed at all times in all of the jurisdictions around here. I think that search and seizures without any kind of warrant has got to be dealt with and I believe that our police have the power to do that to deal with that. Um, I believe that we are all created equal and that we need to treat everyone with dignity and dragging people out of cars

1:43:01 is not treating them with dignity. Um, I believe that law enforcement must identify themselves, wear something so you know you're not being kidnapped, right? Um, thank you very much for not wearing a mask name tag. appreciate that. Okay. Um, and in America, I believe that we do not stop people based on their color or other or other physical characteristics. So, I I just say and I was going to invoke white privilege also. Uh, I want to leverage what white privilege I have and say that I want us as a community to

1:43:50 stand behind the Hispanic community in resistance to these unjust intrusions into the heart of their community, our schools. That's where I've heard of the most fear are schools where the kids are. Come on. um and the resentment that's building toward the federal government and uh and I don't want us our our town our our local communities to be part of that. So that's it. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh Naella Cisneros and uh Timothy Herrera.

1:44:47 Hello. My name is Naelli, but my name is not important. What matters is that I come from an immigrant family and my family has now been in the United States three generations. We've called the beautiful state of Oregon our home for the last 18 years. I'm also a mother of four children, all born and raised here, who are now becoming young adults and are being directly impacted by what what is happening in our community. I'm here today because ICE activity has created fear and confusion throughout our neighborhoods. My family, my neighbors, my people, the people I love are being affected. And whether or not someone has directly have had contact with ICE, the fear, the fear alone harms entire communities. It tears families apart emotionally long before the physical happens. Even after three generations in

1:45:33 this country, that fear still echoes. I know that it feels like what it feels like to live with uncertainty, to feel like the ground can be pulled out from under you at any moment. And not to know if the people you care about will be safe and will be home for dinner. No family in Springfield or Eugene should have to live with that fear. No child should have to wonder if their parent will come home. And no community should be kept in the dark about what's happening in our own streets. My children grew up here and this is their home. They go to school here and they work here. They contribute to this city. We all volunteer as a family. And now as they step into adulthood, they're watching friends, neighbors, and families live in fear. They're watching the community they love shift to a place where people don't feel safe calling for

1:46:19 help or going about their daily lives. That is not the Oregon I have raised my children in for nearly two decades now. This matters to all of us because when people are afraid to go to work, to take their kids to school, or even to call for help, our entire city becomes not safe. Fear does not build strong communities. Transparency and protection does. Springfield and Eugene say value. They value family safety and community. Well, now is the moment to show that those values really do mean something to us. So today, I'm asking the mayor and city council to protect our families, be transparent with the public, and take immediate action. And I'm joining my community in to call the following urgent demands. Declare a state emergency. Publicly guarantee zero cooperation with

1:47:05 ICE. Pass a Springfield sanctuary resolution. Pass end flock cameras and surveillance systems. Require ICE to identify themselves to local police. Provide real-time public alerts when ICE is active. fund local community support organizations, create emergency family protection fund for families taken by ICE, and fund the library, not flock cameras. These steps will truly keep families informed and supported, including long-standing families like mine and many other immigrant families who make this community vibrant, hardworking, and very strong. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Timothy.

1:47:51 Hello, city council. My name is Timothy. I am a project specialist with an organization called Plaza. Um they have an office here in Springfield that provides social services, education, family services, mental health therapy, and a lot of the community members are scared um and that they're not going to come home, their family members are not going to come home. And if we look at the nationwide data of the ICE attentions recently, majority of people don't have criminal records. They're targeting our families, our friends, our community members, uh people who make our community what it is. Um so I'm asking you all to pass a um sanctuary resolution also to require that um ICE agents have can't use face

1:48:38 masks and that they have to be able to identify themselves properly and that you all guarantee um no cooperation with ICE or border patrol and uphold the Oregon sanctuary policies and also to reinforce it with your own um sanctuary resolution and yeah, and there's going to be a lot of comments that touch a similar vein tonight. And I just really want you to think carefully um about the situation we're in today. And also just take a look at the historical record of how Oregon has used immigrants and have targeted immigrants and have tried creating protection for immigrants and then target them again. and we really have to end that cycle and really have to create protection for people and for families and for the people that who

1:49:24 make this state what it is. Um, so that's all I have for tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you. The next two people I have are Amanda Lianigan and Ty Wisen FL. This is nerve-wracking. Hi, I'm Amanda. I live a couple blocks from here. I come to you as a neighbor and as a mental health therapist who supports local families. I'm reporting back from the front lines of suffering in our communities. And I must tell you,

1:50:09 I cannot do my job until you do yours. Last September, the Supreme Court issued an order that allowed ICE agents to stop anyone they assume to be here illegally simply because of the color of their skin, the language they speak, or the job they have. This means that every single black and brown resident of Springfield has become a target of these unknown masked agents who are ripping folks off the street and sending them to countries they aren't even from or disappearing them altogether. I repeat, I cannot do my job until you do yours. I cannot help children manage their anxiety when their parents might be kidnapped on their way to pick them up from school. I cannot help adults manage their depression and hopelessness when

1:50:54 they are watching their families and neighbors disappear one by one without so much as a breath of resistance from their leaders. How am I supposed to help folks recover from PTSD when they are actively taking on more trauma every time they leave their house and have to fear for their lives because of the color of their skin? Our community deserves strong leaders that will take a stand against authoritarianism and racism. We demand that you declare a state of emergency and implement a public alert system about ICE activity. We demand that you keep Flock, a corporateowned mass surveillance company, out of our beautiful city. We don't have to wait to see how Flock will harm our communities. We can already see that Flock data has been misused in high-profile cases like in Texas, where a police officer used the system to

1:51:39 search for a woman who had an abortion and a police chief who allegedly used it to track his ex-wife. I understand the desire to reduce crime in our communities, but flock and ICE have nothing to do with what keeps our communities safer. 73.6% of folks who are held in ICE detention have no criminal conviction. And many of those that do, it's just minor offenses like traffic offenses. What actually reduces crime and protects our communities is giving people access to resources like food and shelter and having their back when racist mass thugs threaten to steal our families. In fact, one of the most powerful things we could do to reduce crime in our community is fully fund the library. Researchers have found that as library funding per person

1:52:24 went up, this was a study done from 1995 to 2016, national crime rates dropped by almost the exact same amount. There's lots of studies. Y'all can look this up. History has its eyes on you, counselors. What will our children say about our bravery or our cowardice? Will they hold their head up high and tell stories of how we came together to keep each other safe? Or will they speak in hush tones about our shameful silence? You choose today. >> Thank you. >> Hi, my name is Ty Weisenflu. I live in Ward 4. I'm going to try to keep this brief because there's uh a lot of people that here that need to speak. Um I sent

1:53:09 an email out to all of you guys. Mayor, thank you for responding to it. Uh it was in reference to the city club meeting a few weeks ago where the next day a camera was um activated. In that meeting, um, I asked the chief if she was sure these things were off and if they were to be reactivated by Flock, if she would know about it. Uh, she assured me that that was the case and obviously the next day that was not the case. I think the the problem here is we have a technology that people are learning about how that technology works from the people that are making it. there's like doesn't seem to be a lot of uh investigation as to how these things

1:53:55 work um through other people that have done research on them. Uh people uh in this city and uh other research scientists and so forth that have seen how insecure these things are. Um and they're, you know, basically like IoT devices like your, you know, fridge that connects to the the internet. Not very secure. Uh so in that meeting I asked for the cameras to be covered. Uh chief said that she would look into it. Um I I don't like I think the uh deputy chief said that Flock had covered up that camera and that was their decision not uh SPDs. So I'm not sure why it would be so hard to just cover these up, give

1:54:41 some trust to the public and unless you guys are going to be removing them uh shortly. I think covering them up would be a pretty uh reasonable thing to do uh and gain trust back from the community. Uh that being said, um yeah, thank you. >> Thank you. Uh the next two items that I have are uh Cali Acklland and Lupe uh Aguano.

1:55:26 Hi Acklland, resident of Ward 4. My address is on file. Um before I get started with my prepared comments, I do want to say um that I agree with what's been said about ICE so far, especially the early comment from the mother for her list of demands. Um I think that was a fantastic list that you all should seriously consider to protect all the residents of Springfield. Um, for my prepared comments, I wanted to take this opportunity to highlight key findings from the Fiscal Stability Task Force's summer feedback survey. 73% of those survey respondents said that they were already somewhat or very familiar with Springfield's budget challenges. 53% of survey respondents said that the task force recommendations did not offer practical and balanced

1:56:11 solutions to the budget issues. and 32% said they weren't sure if the recommendations were practical and balanced. Most importantly, of the 152 respondents, they overall ranked a payroll tax as the most helpful of the recommendations and cutting the library budget as the least helpful of the nine recommendations. And I want to emphasize that again. Of the Springfield community members who responded to the survey on the task force recommendations, they overall ranked the library budget cut as the least helpful for improving Springfield's budget stability. Next, I want to share part of a specific comment left by one survey respondent that resonated with me. It saddens me to think that the library may soon lose the

1:56:56 staff or funding needed to support something that I see do so much good in the community. When the ice storm blew my internet out for 10 days, I was able to work in the library. Nearly every time I go, I see adults at the computers who may not otherwise have access to resources to create a resume or search for a job. My child is never the only one spending hours in the stacks finding books for research projects and pleasure. In short, the library gives so much to so many people in our city. There are so few third spaces like it that offer physical space and resources to anyone who wants to access them without requiring a purchase of some kind. So few places that offer free children's programming to ensure kiddos from babies to teens have a safe space to explore, learn, and socialize. For those who have never had those things,

1:57:42 or those who can afford other recreational activities or tutoring services or camps, this may seem like a small thing, but it's not. It's hugely impactful to the many whose lives would shrink with the loss of library services. And in a city in which schools are underperforming and housing costs are rising, the likely reduction in programming, resources, and family-friendly activities that would result from cutting more than a fifth of the library's budget will make our city less likely to attract the very investment it needs to grow and sustain itself. So again, I implore council as you make decisions on the payroll tax in the near future to set the tax rate at a level that will maintain current library services. Thank you. >> Thank you.

1:58:34 >> Could you hit it the the microphone until it goes green? >> Perfect. Mayor, city council. Good afternoon. Uh my name is Lupangiano and I live here in Springfield. I host Laena 97.7 FM Spanish radio station. My listeners are the essential workers, the parents, and the families who are the backbone of this city. I'm here as a voice for my community facing fear and threat. The recent ICE actions are an assault to our neighbors, to our families, to my community. And I don't not just hearing stories, not just watching it on social media, but I'm hearing the desperation in their voices, the fear that is stopping parents from going to work in peace and keeping

1:59:19 children at home. This is a moral crisis that is leaving trauma with our kids, in our communities, our youth. And we need a real leadership right now. And with all due respect, many of you have chosen silence. And silence is not leadership. What do we need? more families to be torn apart for something to be done. We are here to say that we are not disposable and we will no longer tolerate this. Springfield must be uphold to its moral commitment to every resident no matter their status, no matter their color of their skin. And we demand immediate up um compromising policy shifts, state of emergency, sanctuary resolution and of surveillance cameras, flock surveillance cameras and real time alerts resources for the

2:00:04 communities and families who are being impacted. Mayor and council, your choice is simple. Stand with us, our families of Springfield, or stand with the forces that are tearing them apart. We need your help and support protection to be accountable and ensure that no more family members is taken from our city. And we will not stop until our voices are heard. And we will keep coming and ask for support and help. And tonight, when you go to your families and you celebrate Christmas this December, I'm asking you to please look at your kids and your families and put yourself in our shoes. Imagine trying to drive to work, trying to make intimate for your family in fear if you're going to be taken away just because of the color of

2:00:50 your skin, not knowing if you're going to see your children again. Because this is what our families, this is what our communities are living. This is real and is having a huge impact on our community. So, we are asking for your support and this is all. Thank you. >> Thank you. The next two cards I have are Alex Tedo and Johanneso. Good. Good evening, mayor and councils. My name is Alex. I'm 17 years old. I live 2009 H Street. This is not my first

2:01:36 time I've come to speak. When I was around 8 years old, I stood right here during the fight to end ICE the ICE contract. I was just a kid scared that my family and my friends were going to get taken away. And I was hoping that fear was just going to leave, hoping that fear would not come back. And now all of a sudden, I'm scared to even walk outside or realize I'm going to get a call from my parents, my siblings, and find out that they're getting taken away, getting deported. I'm just scared from just my friends, for my community, cuz our community is supposed to be somewhere we could feel safe, not where we should be feared.

2:02:21 Springfield, I've lived here my whole life, and I always thought this place has a safe place. This is always my go-to spot. It's my safe spot where I can just relax. But all of a sudden, I'm getting so much fear from just being here. It's like it's not even Springfield anymore. That's all I have to say. >> Thank you. Hello, mayor, counselors. My name is Johanno and I'm here because our community is living in fear and because your silence has made the fear worse. Families in Springfield have been terrorized. Ice has been back in our neighborhoods causing harm. Kids are

2:03:07 scared to go to school, as you heard. Parents are afraid to go to work. Neighbors are driving each other's children just to keep families safe. Families have received threatening letters in September saying they're being watched. And their children are being watched. And if you care for your child, that you should go back to your country. One letter said, "Do it or we'll do it for you. You don't belong here. We're We are seeing you now." This is happening in Springfield. These letters were reported and you know about them because we have contacted you about them. Then on November 5th and November 19th ISIS back and still there has been no public statement, no warning, no plan, no words to reassure the families who were targeted. The only response was one Facebook post. No follow up or

2:03:53 contacting families or no in Spanish for community members and in that word to see and share. Every single family deserves to feel safe in the city and not be kidnapped or worry about being kidnapped. Families are living in fear not because of what they did, but because the city has not acted in response to these ICE actions. If this happens again and more families are taking, will you communicate directly with the families harmed? Will that be too late? Will you show leadership and stand up against the against this instead of silence? Tonight, our community needs action like you've heard from other folks. Declare a state of emergency just like other cities have done in the state. Publicly guarantee zero police cooperation with ICE. Pass a Springfield sanctuary resolution that is

2:04:40 stronger and flock cameras and harmful surveillance. Require ICE agents to identify themselves to Springfield police and provide realtime alerts when ICE is active. Fund the library. Our community needs education connection support right now. Create an emergency family protection fund for legal help for families that have been taken. Springfield deserves leadership, transparency, and protection. And our families deserve to feel safe in the city they all call home. Residents should not feel afraid for being in their skin.

2:05:48 And I ask the the city council to please step up. Please hear your residents. Do something. Thank you. Next two people are Zia Enson and Michael Williams.

2:06:43 um and I have friends that are um brown and I've been scared of losing them. I have friends at school. I have family members, too. But the the worst of saying is being the oldest of siblings. And I want some of the people that I know that are dark skinned is really nice people and I want my siblings to meet it. But they're little. My brother is three and my sister is about to be 6 months old.

2:07:28 And I want them to grow up and realize that we aren't going to be afraid in this um world and we should not be afraid of this. Doesn't matter how much skin color. And even if we're not brown, it there's still some things that are terrible and scary because um you never know what could happen next because even if you're not that skin color, you can still be like taken away and there's chances that we can be here.

2:08:15 And I've seen so many people worrying at my school saying that they don't want to be here. They don't want to go out of their house and just because they're brown. And they try to do lots of things to keep them from being attacked. And they're scared because anything could happen to their family members while they're at school. And that is really hard for me to hear, but I'm still standing strong, trying to be a good example for my brother and my sister. My sister, I can't really see the things that are

2:09:01 happening, but I know that eventually when she grows up, there will be a time where she'll she can know. And hopefully by then this will all not be happening and it and my brother can I can learn too. Thank you. Thanks. You did great. If you want to sit by your mom instead of waiting that would be perfectly fine too. Or you can stay stay up here. Oh. All right.

2:09:47 Michael, could you hit the button until it goes green >> there? How's that? >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Okay. My name is Michael Williams. Live just east of Kelly but thank you for the opportunity to talk. In a few days, I'm going to be 80 years old. I never thought I'd be asking my city council to protect us from anonymous masked goons blindfolding and kidnapping people off the streets. I remember seeing news footage of that happening in various foreign dictatorships. Never thought that footage would be made in the United States.

2:10:33 My father fought for democracy in World War II. couple uncles did. I had relatives die for democracy in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq. I do not recall that any relatives died to protect the right to accost people without warrant, detain and expel them without trial, while breaking the windows of their cars. This madness has to stop. Let's start here in Springfield. Declare a state of emergency. Pass a Springfield sanctuary resolution. Guarantee zero cooperation with ICE. Create an emergency family protection

2:11:20 fund. It may be uncomfortable in these political times to stand up for what we pledged allegiance to over there. But if you stand up, we will stand with you. >> Thank you. Next two cards I have are Joselyn Sanchez and Serita Leaf.

2:12:08 Good evening, mayor and city council. My name is Jocelyn Sanchez and I am a resident of Eugene in Ward 6. While I may not live in Springfield, I have been an employee for Springfield School District for the past eight years. I work for the McKini Vento program serving some of our some of our most vulnerable students and families in the city of spring city of Springfield. I am not here representing my employer tonight. I am here representing myself. I want to speak to you about my experience on November 19th on our city streets and I debated long and hard about whether to come forward. But as a community member, a daughter of immigrants, a district employee, a friend, a mother, and a

2:12:55 social worker, it is the right thing to do. What happened has stayed with me and it is something our community needs to hear. During work hours on my way to one of the schools I served, I noticed that I was being followed by an unmarked vehicle with two individuals inside, both wearing ski masks and tactical gear. They had no front license plate. They were telling me closely and clearly attempting to intimidate me. I had done nothing wrong. I am not someone with a warrant. I am not a threat. Yet, I was treated like one. Thankfully, one of my co-workers was waiting outside in the parking lot for me and was a w was a witness to part of this. And if I hadn't pulled into the

2:13:40 school parking lot, what would have happened? And let me tell you, this shook me. And I'm still shooken by it. I work with children every single day, and many of the youth I serve, I've already seen a shift in their fear and anxiety. I've seen ICE vehicles roaming near our schools. I hear the worries from students who tell me they feel unsafe walking to and from school and no child should have to carry that fear. And as adults, we should not have to fear being followed, watched or intimidated on the streets of our own city. So my questions to you tonight are what are you going to do to ensure that our streets are safe for all residents and to keep our streets safe from intimidation and targeting? What actions will you take to ensure that ICE

2:14:26 cannot terrorize our families, our workers, and our children without accountability? Because these are our neighbors. These are our families. These are the students who sit in the classrooms every day trying to learn through fear that no child should have to carry. And it doesn't sit well with me and it shouldn't sit well with any of us or with you. Our community deserves transparency, accountability, and protection. What happened to me isn't something that I can just forget, and it is not something that this city and Lane County should accept as normal. We need ice off our streets and flock cameras. Thank you for listening, and I hope that you will act.

2:15:26 >> Good evening. Um, I'm Serita Leaf. I live on West K Street in Springfield. Uh, every thing that people have been saying echoes my feelings. City Council people, we need you. We need you right now to stand against this invasion by ICE in Springfield. Right here in Springfield. We need you to follow the lead of the city of Newport. What was it? Two two weeks ago, which is fighting against the building of a detention center in Oregon. Oregon right now has no detention centers, and we really should keep it that way.

2:16:11 My family escaped the Nazi scourge in Europe. My uncles fought in World War II to make sure it didn't come to our shores. But look what's happening here and now. We need you to do what in your role of city council you can do. I also would like to see you declare a state of emergency because it is a state of emergency. Pass a Springfield sanctuary resolution. Yes, we've had one in the past. We need the every municipality in this country to hear it again to hear that we are

2:16:58 continuing to stand up. guarantee zero cooperation with ICE and as other people have mentioned, resist any of the the establishment of flock cameras and create an emergency family protection fund because that's what we all want and need for our friends and neighbors and family. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Uh, I've got Alejandro A and Kimberly Sanchez. I've got two minutes left to 40 minutes. So, I'm going to just check to see and tell you how many we've got.

2:17:44 Just come on up. Okay, we have two, three, six. Hey, just give me one second here. Uh, you know, do we have hands up online? >> Currently, I have five hands waiting. >> Okay, so right now I've got five more cards. Um, plus five hands waiting. So, we still have we're just about to 40 minutes. Um, and so, and we got 10 more cards to go. So, we're probably on pace to hit another 30 minutes. And this was our check-in point. I'm just double checking before we keep All right.

2:18:30 Thank you for letting us pause. Go ahead. >> Me. Um, my name is Kimberly Sanchez. I go to Centennial School. The um go I go to Centennial School. Um, I'm 10 years old. When I my biological dad, he left me with my siblings and my mom. But thankfully, I have a new stepdad that he is brown skinned. He really brings joy to my whole family

2:19:16 and I'm scared of losing him. when he leaves to work that he's not going to come back. And then my 12-year-old brother, he kind of looks like Mexican, brown skin, and I'm kind of scared that he's not going to come back from Hamlin Middle School

2:20:04 one day. And I've known my brother for all my life, and I'm scared of losing him. I mean, we do fight, but like he's my brother. I love him. she has told me that she has been scared of losing her mom, too. And I just feel really bad for her. Thank you.

2:20:59 >> Good evening, Mayor and counselors. My name is Alejandro Gillar. In 2018, I stood here fighting against the removal of the ICE contracts at the Springfield Jail. 7 years later, I am back here again fighting against ICE presence here in our community. And as I said it before, I'll say it again. Silence is violence. Over the past few weeks, we've seen ICE terrorists come into our communities and separate families. Over the past few weeks, I am reminded by my parents that before I leave my home to make sure I have this, my American passport. Because no matter if you are documented or not, when you look like me, a person of color and accent, you are a target.

2:21:44 Despite that, I still acknowledge my privilege, and I use it to help others. I'm not asking you to be in the front lines of our struggle. I'm asking you to acknowledge and put and put to use your privilege as well. To reassure the people, to reassure the children, to protect the people, to make an official statement and stand by it. We are more than just being put on an agenda. We are people and we deserve to be heard, to be seen, to be supported. It's the bare minimum. eyes and the the flock cameras. And that's all. Thank you. Thank you. The next two cards I have are June Father Gill and Kai Fireside.

2:22:49 June, Father Gil, um, from Ward 4. Y'all know me. So, um, I wasn't going to say anything and I don't have anything extra to say. You've heard it already. But when my friend told me about how much fear there is in our community, I do implore you to act. You are our representatives and we need you to stand with the people who are suffering and are fearful and who are experiencing this harassment. So you've been given lots of different possibilities of things to do and you know you can. So I just encourage you to do that. stand up, you know, be heard and reassure your community that you are there for them.

2:23:36 And also part of that to me also would be to keep the library fully funded. So it is the one place in this community where everyone is welcomed and including our Hispanic community in wonderful ways. You must keep that library fully functioning. It's very important. So thank you for standing up for our community. Thank you, >> Kyireside. I live inside Ward One, but not in Ward One. We're at an historic place here. We have so many issues that we're facing. We're trying to deal with them as a community, but there is only so much that we can do. I know that you are all unpaid volunteers, but you have a level of

2:24:22 power that we do not. I go to the federal building on Tuesdays. That doesn't feel like doing much. I've been fighting flock and other surveillance, and that's been successful to a point. I am a loyal library patron. I paid $100 for my library card because I live outside the urban growth boundary. But all these things feel minor compared to what you can do. Ice activity is an emergency here that requires your immediate attention. The library is already underfunded. Get that money somewhere else. There were other options that the task force mentioned. Raise the payroll tax. Cut overtime. Don't touch the library.

2:25:07 And every single day, we have more news about surveillance being used by ICE. We have more news about how slimy a company flock is. The last thing we need at this time is to spend a single penny on more surveillance. surveilling the community that is looking to you, the only people with the power to solve these problems. Some people in this room are running for higher political offices. You might want to do something to keep these constituents from getting kidnapped off the streets, lest the only people left to vote are those of us that are acutely aware of our white privilege and yours.

2:25:53 >> Bob Sheldon. And I cannot make out the the last name, but the first name is Pablo. Okay. My name is Pablo Deios. I live in here for 25 or 30 years in this state. I love Oregon. It's really really sad when we hear this situation we have for immigration. I work in uh all all over Oregon. I do construction job. I do the 88 ramp. Uh we have a little a really really story. The concern is I'm here because I want to try support the Latino

2:26:38 community. I think in my opinions is we can make a difference in America. I'm here for I pay my taxes. I think so all Latinos, okay, we feel really really bad in this in this time. We not feel safe. A lot of family like last week we try celebrate the Thanksgiving, you know. We say thank you for everything but last week a lot of family not have a food and the tables. A lot of kids scare. We had to put like lot of cameras or lock the door because we never know happen. Okay. And I think we're not criminals. We come in here for work. We do the same

2:27:24 like you guys pay your taxes, buy your gas, driving all around. Like right now, tomorrow I had to wake up 3 in the morning. I had to drive to Poland work. Every day we scared and we concerning this. If you have a something resolution you have, we appreciate you help. You guys have the power. And remember, no matter what, what color, what race, we can make a difference. We can make American great against. But something we need your support. Please, please, all Latinos family right now, we feel really bad. Okay. Sometime we

2:28:11 see the car police every family think oh that's immigration over there that situation we have here is really bad families scared kids scared please we need your help we make a solution and we need better future way my life thank Thank you. >> Thank you. Go ahead, Rob. >> Good evening. Rob Sheldon. I live on Hayden Bridgeway. Uh I came here tonight to talk about Flockhead again, and I'll get to that in a moment. But listening to all of these people here, it's clear

2:28:58 that these people are victims of terrorism. You have right now uh roving thugs in your city and they are causing a great deal of damage. The surveillance systems are an integral part of their capabilities. There are at minimum a couple of things that you could do uh right now. I Flock has be has been my part-time job now for the last se several months. It's really uh kind of taken over my life. I found that most recently I've been

2:29:43 trying to reassure people that there is a political process underway to try to bring this to some kind of conclusion. Uh but we're not seeing a lot of movement yet. I believe that we can get there, but it would be nice to have some kind of statement from the city on exactly what that process is going to look like and how long it's going to take and what needs to happen. Uh, as yet that's all entirely unclear. Uh in addition, we've attempted to get a copy of the contract uh through which uh that the the city has uh flock services currently and it seems that that's not available. What we've received is uh signed

2:30:29 paperwork from insight public sector uh but the specific terms under which the city has uh conducted operations with flock are not available. It seems that the city is itself unsure of what kind of agreement it has with Flock and what those terms are and that's not a great look. So, we've got a public records request that has been as yet unfulfilled now for several months. It would be nice to get that sorted out. Um, but most of all, the voices here tonight are even more important. flock is a part of that. But it took a great deal of courage for the people here to speak. I guarantee that

2:31:16 in all of their minds they were worried about repercussions and consequences. Can you be any less courageous from where you sit? Thank you. >> Thank you. I do not have any more cards. Neil, could you call the first person online? >> Yes. Uh, the first speaker is Cameron Stringfield, followed by Jetty, Eddie, and Cameron, you should be able to unmute your microphone. >> All right. Can you hear me? >> Yes, we can. >> All right. My name is Cameron Stringfield. I live in Eugene, but work in Springfield. And I'm a member of the PSL and the Lane County Immigrant Defense Network. Uh, in the last month, we've been seeing dozens upon dozens of kidnappings from Lane County, including in Springfield. ICE is dragging people

2:32:02 out of cars, masked and guns drawn. ICE is showing up at schools to find people to kidnap. ICE has raided a Guatemalan community in Cottage Grove. And for months, ICE has been unconstitutionally kidnapping our immigrant neighbors, attending their regular check-ins at the ICE field office in Eugene and assaulting and brutalizing peaceful community members who protest ICE atrocities there, document their activity, and support the people being affected. I've been a firsthand witness to this. We've been struggling against this all year. To tell you the truth, the ICE crisis is what led me to be so involved in activism against flock cameras. It is a crisis. It is an emergency and

2:32:48 it is affecting your city and your constituents and you need to decide whether you want to be complicit or fight back against Trump's racist deportation machine. This is a critical moment in history for you as leaders of Springfield, and it requires action. Here are some actions you can take immediately to protect your community members from ICE. As other speakers have said, declare a state of emergency. Make a public decor de declaration that you will not cooperate with ICE. Draft and pass a strengthened Springfield sanctuary resolution. End the usage of flock cameras here and pass local ordinances banning surveillance systems like Flock. Block is a company that has shown again and again that they'll assist ICE in their violent actions. We cannot trust a company like that in our

2:33:34 city and the only way to prevent it is to stop it entirely. There are no real safeguards. Require identification of all ICE agents, meaning no masks, show badges, and identify when asked. Stop allowing ICE to be above the law. require Springfield police to enforce all criminal or traffic laws for ICE agents and prosecute law-breaking agents. End the usage of unmarked and uncovered vehicles by the Eugene Police Department due to the similarity with ICE vehicles to avoid fear, confusion, and unnecessary incidents with local police. Post realtime public alerts when ICE is active. Fund local immigrant support and defense organizations. Create an emergency family protection fund for the

2:34:19 families who have been impacted by ISIS atrocious actions. And come to the federal building in Eugene on any Tuesday, though the last of the month is always the biggest day there. And talk to the local organizations supporting our neighbors that are being kidnapped at the ICE facility, and stand with your community members as public officials. No one should have to live in fear, but the administration and their psychotic fascist ambitions is waging a war on our immigrant neighbors. What are local leaders going to do to fight back? >> Thank you. Next question, please. Next speaker is Jetty Eddie, followed by Hazel Barry. And Jetty, you should be able to unmute your microphone. >> Okay. Can you hear me? >> We can. >> Perfect. Uh, my name is Jetty. I live in

2:35:06 W 4 and I'm here to be clear and I'm here to be direct. We demand action. Our community deserves safety, dignity, and investments that actually help people and not more surveillance. We are calling on you to declare a state of an emergency, guarantee zero ICE cooperation, pass a Springfield sanctuary resolution, and flock cameras and surveillance systems, require ICE to identify themselves, provide real-time public alerts when ICE is active, fund community support organizations, create an emergency family protection fund, and mostly and not sorry. And lastly, fund the flock or fund the library, not the flock cameras. These are straightforward necessity

2:35:51 necessities that we expect you to take action on. And to the people in the audience, please familiar familiarize yourself with the PIC and report ICE to them. Their phone number is 1888-6221510. Please look up the whistle alert system and know your community is not alone. We are with you even if our city and our government is not. We have your back. We see you. We love you. We care. Ice. >> The next speaker is Hazel Barry, followed by Bryce Mayhal. Hazel, you should be able to unmute your microphone. >> Okay. >> Hi there. Uh, thank you for letting me

2:36:36 speak. I'm Hazel. I live in a rural area just out of town, but I drive through Springfield regularly and I do a lot of my shopping and in town activities in Springfield. So, I'm here to push Springfield City Council to do more to protect our Latino and non-white neighbors from ICE. ICE routinely violates the constitutional rights of the people they detain and deport and those who anyone who gets in their way really by entering people's homes without a judicial warrant as is required. Detaining people based solely on racial profiling, violently assaulting their intended targets and some of the activists who help monitor protest and respond to ICE raids, detaining people when they are attending court-ordered immigration

2:37:22 proceedings, thereby interrupting their rights to due process, detaining some individuals for very long periods without bond hearings so they can't contest their detention as is their right. impeding or refusing detainees rights to access a lawyer even at their own expense. Obscuring detainees locations and sending them out of state to hide from the hide them from their support systems who would otherwise be able to get them legal help. and sending detainees to detention centers with inhumane conditions without proper medical attention or even to countries far away from their home countries of origin where they do not know the language and cannot navigate the legal system.

2:38:08 ICE may be a law enforcement agency, but it's acting in flagrant violation of the law. People are getting abducted and beaten on the street by masked agents with no identification in unmarked cars, often without probable cause based only on the color of their skin. They ignore court orders that order them to cease these illegal activities, assuming the federal government will just have their back. ICE is a criminal organization, and we can't stand by while they ignore our basic constitutional protections. If the federal government is just going to let this happen, we have to take it into our own hands and we have to take meaningful action that actually targets these power dynamics and not just signal

2:38:54 our virtues. So for that reason and in light of this, I ask Springfield City Council to declare a state of emergency because this is an emergency. Day after day, people are getting snatched off the street just for being brown. end flock cameras and surveillance systems and defund the flock camera program for good because it's already being used as a tool for ICE enforcement. Please use that money to fund the library instead. Require ICE to identify themselves to local police and pursue ICE agents who break the law. Actively help protect the community by reissuing public alerts when ICE is active. Uh support community organizations and create an emergency family protection fund. Thank you for listening and for your service to our

2:39:39 community. >> Our next speaker is Bryce Mayhal followed by Latif Amando. Bryce, you should be able to unmute your microphone. >> Can you hear me? Okay, >> we can Bryce. >> Okay. My name is Bryce May and I am here as a resident of Springfield. Uh I am here to speak against flock. My issue is not with such technology itself, but with the storage and use of data. It is not stored only locally, subject to strict, well-th thoughtout policies concerning duration of storage, custody of data, cyber security, and access. Flock data is stored elsewhere, subject to use by federal agencies. As we are

2:40:24 seeing, such agencies, ICE in particular, are using these data to target people on a questionable legal basis. We must ensure the safety of our vulnerable vulnerable communities in every way we can and restricting access to our citizens location data is an extremely important part of that. I urge council to end all contact contracts and uses of flock permanently. We don't need them. We need real safety, the kind that comes from knowing that ICE isn't watching our movements. Good people, people who care about their community, do not provide an authoritarian government with more tools to do harm. I believe that you, our elected representatives, understand that you are here to represent the good in all of us and to minimize harm done to all of us, but especially our minorities, our most vulnerable, our neighbors. I recently

2:41:09 learned that the full Nazi takeover happened far faster than I realized. America is not following that timeline, thankfully, but in large part because there is such widespread opposition to what is happening. We must be a notable part of that opposition, even in Springfield here in every way we are able. Ending Flock's presence in our community is one such way. Please do the right thing. Also, please fund the library. Thank you. The next speaker is Latif Amando, followed by the last hand that we have up, which is Jeffrey Gordon. And Latif, you should be able to unmute your microphone. >> Can you hear me? Okay, >> we can. >> Great. Uh, good evening, uh, mayor and

2:41:54 counselors. My name is Latif Amado. I am a resident of Eugene by am actively responding to incidents of ICE in Springfield. I'm here tonight to demand action in response to what can only be described as criminal targeting of immigrant residents by ICE in our community. People are being snatched from outside their homes, their workplaces, and during routine check-ins without lawful justification, without due process. Violations are documented every single day locally. These are racialized enforcement practices designed to intimidate and destabilize black, brown, and immigrant families. As someone who responds directly to these incidents, I see the fallout every single day. Parents are terrified to leave their homes. Children are living with trauma in missing school. Workers

2:42:40 are losing wages. Families become unhoused after a single detention. This is a public safety crisis created by government agencies. and Springfield must decide whether it will reduce harm or enable it. Tonight, I'm calling on the city to stop contributing to systems that further criminalize and endanger our neighbors. Publicly condemn ICE criminal and predatory actions. Refusing to speak up is complicity. Reject the expansion or use of surveillance technologies, including automated license plate readers and flock cameras. These are known to facilitate racial profiling, data sharing with immigration enforcement, and wrongful detentions. These systems do not make our community safer. They make specific people easier

2:43:25 to target based on race. Implement protective policies and allocate emergency supports for those directly impacted, including access to legal defense, emergency housing funds, and partnerships with community-based responders. This is not unprecedented. Cities and counties across Oregon have already taken action in response to these harms. Washington County, Forest Grove, Hillsboro, Lane County, and Woodburn have all declared local states of emergency and allocated emergency funds to support immigrant residents and mitigate human humanitarian impacts. ICE may operate with federal authority, but this council chooses whether local systems help them target our community. We know who is harmed by these practices. We know what causes the harm

2:44:12 and now you know what you can do to stop it. And also the final speaker is Jeffrey Gordon and Jeffrey you should be able to unmute your microphone. >> Hi. Can you hear me? We can hear you. >> Excellent. Uh, okay. Um, I'm Dr. Jeffrey Gordon. Uh, I live and work as a clinical psychologist in Ward 7 of Eugene. I'm a member of the PSL and immigrant defense network. So, thank you for the opportunity to speak. Uh, just

2:44:57 know that everything I say to you is the same as what I would say to my city council. Well, I agree with everything that pretty much everyone has said uh before me tonight. So, still bear with me and I'll say my piece. Look, not only are ICE, CBP, and other DHS agencies enacting a racist terror campaign, they are specifically targeting working-class immigrants and social justice activists. Though notably, they have attacked city officials and police officers on occasion. But, you know, I don't see ICE trying to deport Elon Musk back to South Africa. Even though he's a well-known drug abuser, sexual harasser, war proeteer, and someone who may not have immigrated legally, he's going to be fine because he is rich and white. Kidnapping immigrants has nothing to do with stopping crime and everything to do

2:45:43 with racism. ICE operates in open defiance of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the established rule of law. The only logic behind their actions is bigotry, ethnic cleansing. My Jewish grandfather served in the army from 1941 to 45 in North Africa and Europe. He didn't serve just so that the Gestapo could be reborn in my lifetime. May the sacrifices of every generation of American veterans weigh on your conscience. So follow the lead of several other cities and my Eugene city councelor Lindseay Leech and look into declaring a state of emergency as soon as possible. Furthermore, I demand your public guarantee of zero ice cooperation.

2:46:30 pass a Springfield sanctuary resolution. Require ICE to identify themselves to local police. Issue real-time public alerts when ICE is active. Fund local community support organizations. Create an emergency family protection fund for families that have been taken. And of course, end the agreement with Flock Safety Incorporated. Turn off the cameras, cover them, take them down. And the same goes for any automated surveillance systems that you may have or be looking into. And find your library. This is what I demand of my own city and yours. Thank you very much for your time. And uh also I endorse Kai uh Firestone for the uh representative position. Thank you.

2:47:23 No other speakers. All right. Thank you. Thank you for your patience. Um, thank you for a lot of the courage that it uh that it took to go through both what your experiences are and you know what uh your community members have. I know that everybody in this room's been through a lot. I've got a couple comments that I want to make. Um then I'm going to open it up for for to the rest of the council to jump in and then uh and then I'll come back if I if if we've got if we've got additional time. The one thing that really jumped out to me was just the amount of courage that uh folks are showing right now. Like it takes a lot to come and talk to us about what your experiences are. It takes a lot to share what uh your neighbors go through and the reality like is that

2:48:11 we're we're listening. This is a complicated and nuanced conversation and part of it is because of how federal law works. But what I want to te tell you is that at its core, what I'm concerned about is people's constitutional rights. Now, we're going to get through a couple of, you know, questions about, you know, some of the suggestions, but people have the right to due process. They have the right to their constitutional rights. Um, I think the thing that I just wanted to chat a little bit more about is like Oregon works under uh a sanctuary uh sanctuary state law called the Oregon Promise Act. Um, RPD does not uh does not cooperate with ICE. They don't um

2:48:56 city employees don't cooperate with ICE. Um that is governed under a state law. uh if you if you have interest and experience and um willingness to re research it, you can go online and you can read the immigration section of the PD's uh standard operating procedures and it outlines exactly what what they do and the instructions to their officers. And I also think it's important in these moments, right, when people have got so much fear is that especially when it comes to emergency response um in public safety is know that like if you've witnessed a crime, if you're uh a victim of a crime, you

2:49:43 can come forward to Springfield PD. They do not cooperate uh wi with immigration. and that the same goes for uh the fire department and emergency services uh as well. Um, with that, I think the one suggestion I do have, and maybe um, I'm looking at the city, the city manager, and then I'll turn it over to everybody else, is really um, maybe we can just outline where some of these governing documents um, come from and have an opport, you know, and give people an opportunity just to give, you know, a link to go and read what where the uh, uh, where the where the state law sits and where um, our standard operating ating procedures sit so that they can see that Oregon's got one of the

2:50:28 toughest uh sanctuary city or sanctuary state laws in the in the country and that's really governing everything you see across across the state of Oregon. Um with that I've got about 15 more points but I'm going to take a second and like turn it over to council and see if people want to weigh in. Go ahead council Michael. >> I just want to say thank you for coming tonight. Thank you for uh sharing and nobody um that you know lives in Springfield or or in the United States for that matter should fear uh a loved one not coming home at night. So thank you >> councelor Mo. >> I'm sorry to I'm sorry to say here tonight I learned I'm a member of the privilege of white. I'm embarrassed to

2:51:14 hear that. I don't feel that way. I emphasize with everybody in this room and I feel the same way you do and if my emp my white privilege gives me a little bit of power. I will use it to help support you. >> Council Rodney, >> thank you. I'm going to take up a little bit more time and probably be a little bit messier. Um I want to thank you all for coming out tonight and sharing your experiences and sharing your fear. And one of the things that many of you said was you said we're looking to you upon here on this dis for because you have the power. You all are the ones who have the power. I have a 9-year-old grandson who is Latino. So, same age as Zia, I think,

2:52:01 and who was born in 2016. And his birth is coincided with the election in 2016 and was one of the primary motivators for my running for public office and wanting to get on this side because I was always on that side. I also want to acknowledge that I am one voice and being on a council means that we have to move this entire council when we get to decisions, we get to declarations, we get to to proclamations. Your being here tonight does more than five years of me being on city council trying to have these conversations and

2:52:46 bring I I I can share what I know. I can share my experiences with my family and the people in my neighborhood, but it means so much more when you all come forward and share. And I also want to acknowledge that it's far riskier when you all come forward and share. I want to agree with councelor Blackwell and I I don't even feel like I need to say it. Everyone who lives in Springfield deserves to feel safe and deserves to feel protected. And I'm hearing that over and over again. And the painful piece of this is that I personally cannot promise that I can keep every one of you safe or protect everyone from what is happening from

2:53:32 federal overreach and the repercussions of a federal election. Elections have consequences. And while we are here to tackle them in every possible way with what we can do at the city level, there are going to be things that we are going to disappoint you on because we are not going to have as much pull and say at this moment as we would like to. And I want to acknowledge that a couple of you said it. the this the the this current environment has definitely emboldened the racism and the bigotry and the fear and the just the the constant discomfort and fear that folks are

2:54:17 experiencing. I can't say fear enough because I'm feeling the fear that you all have shared with us tonight and I face it all day in my day job and in my neighborhood and in my family. So, I just want you to know how much I appreciate it. how I know how difficult it is, how risky it is, how some of you will probably be heading home saying, "I don't even know if they heard me. I don't know what the point of this is." But Springfield is your city, too. And I'm hoping that everyone leaves here saying, "This is our city. These are our neighbors. These are the people that we care about. These are the people who the children in our schools." Everybody up here knows I'm incredibly proud of I have a daughter who teaches at Springfield High School and is

2:55:02 teaches new arrivals in math. Um, and so I feel like we are so embed embedded in embedded in this problem and yet I can't speak for my colleagues but we also feel very helpful. I can sign on to a letter which I did. I can be a voice against the flock cameras which I have been. I can continue to carry your your wishes and your voices into these decision-making conversations and I cannot promise you that we're going to get it right or I'm going to be able to keep you safe and I'm going to be the one getting those phone calls on November 19th at 7 a.m. letting me know what's going on in the city. I'm immediately on the phone to the mayor

2:55:47 and to the to the um reaching out to the city to say, "What are we doing? Where are we standing? Does anybody know what's going on? That's just that's that's what I want to say is that it isn't that everybody up here is not paying attention or that everybody is silent. It means that we have to pull together as a community and figure out h who we're how we're going to stand up, what we're going to do, what we can do, and what is going to be the most meaningful. If it's a proclamation, I sometime I used to be over there. I get a little bit crabby about proclamations because I'm like, we can make a proclamation and I don't know if it's going to move the dial unless we have some meat to back that up, but we're I'm going to keep fighting to do everything that we possibly can. So,

2:56:33 this was my I promised you it was going to be long and it was going to be messy. I want you to know that there is at least, and I think there is more than one, a voice on this council that is not only aware, but is striving and trying to make sure that we do whatever we can to push back against anything that is inhibiting the safety and the well-being and the happiness of my neighbors and the residents of Springfield. It doesn't feel great. It feels really crappy and it feels super unsafe and I just want you to know that it's it's I can't give you a good answer and yet I'm going to keep working on it and I'm going to keep being that voice for that and a voice isn't always going to move

2:57:19 the polic like it's not always going to move it but keep telling us what you need us to do so that we can try to figure out what are the pieces that we can do and what's going to make the biggest difference in this really scary, horrible time. Thank you, >> Council Weber. >> Thank you all for coming and and sharing your fears and your your wishes. And some of what you are asking for is um maybe something that we can do. Some of it I'm I feel kind of powerless to actually say that I can make that happen. Um, Corey said it really really well. Um, and I just I feel horrible. I I don't

2:58:04 like the position that any of us are in. And I don't I don't know how to help, but you've all given us a lot to think about and some options that I'm really going to to give some hard serious thought to. Um, and again, just I know how hard it was for all of you to come here tonight and and your courage is just it warms my heart. So, thank you for sharing. St.

2:59:27 Chief the police. The police. Councelor Buck. Thank you. Um I just really appreciate all the testimony and and coming forward um on a lot of different levels. Um you know, I have two children that are in our public schools and they're they're impacted by this in in different ways. their friends, their teachers, um people they know. Um it's it's a very it's a very different time than I've ever known and any of us have ever known. I also want to say that I really appreciate the clear communication. You

3:00:14 guys asked us some direct questions. You guys outlined some very direct things and said, "Hey, these are the things that we want." Um, I think at the very least, um, we can we can respond to those. We may not be able to respond to those tonight. Um, but I think that acknowledging that you've asked for certain things and we can look into those and we can see what can be done and we can respond to that. um I think is is reasonable and that's something that I can commit to at least continuing to pursue um with the questions within the council. >> Um and then also just know that fear is just unacceptable in our

3:01:00 communities. Uh we can't can't accept this whether it affects one or whether it affects all of us. We can't accept this. We need communities that are safe. We need communities that work together, that can live together, and that can play together. That's who we are in Springfield. And when that's threatened, we all need to respond to that. And you guys have made a huge step in coming out here and continuing to come out here. I'm very new to this council and I've seen you guys show up multiple times. Um, and I'm so happy every time you guys do because we are one community and um, continue to to talk to us because we

3:01:47 need your support as well. We need to hear what your experience is, what you want, what you need, and what you see because when we're all working together, we can get a lot done. And as councelor Bradley said, you guys have a lot of power. You guys tell us how Springfield really is. Not the way we want it to be, but the way it is, all of our own perspectives, and thank you for sharing yours. Um, we'll continue to do what we can to support you. Continue to do what you can to give us the feedback and let us hear those voices. >> All right, thank you everybody. I had a couple more uh specific comments. Um, one of the things I'm just sort of thinking about is all the asks that are

3:02:32 in this uh that were we heard tonight. Um, one of the challenges that and I think councelor Rodley mentioned it is right like really at the core of this everybody wants to know that they get to call home safely tonight and that's and it is a ch this is a challenging situation that that we we can't necessarily guarantee. Some of the asks are you are maybe in the realm of doable. Some of these asks um may not be legal under you know under federal law. Um some of them I think the right the right step here is maybe give us a chance to go back you know and get some more thoughtout responses to them. Um, I

3:03:18 want to at least prepare people for the fact that some of the things you ask for while they feel like they're going to move you towards in us as a community where they need to go may may not be something within our power to grant. Um, you know, um, especially restrictions on how ICE operates, uh, how, you know, ICE is in the community, some of that is governed under federal law enforcement. But I think when I really listen to the amount of testimony that we've heard, I really think probably giving us a longer, you know, g sharing with people a longer, more thoughtout answer is is going to be helpful. A couple things I do want to point out. Um, somebody brought up an American passport um that they uh that they carried with them. It

3:04:04 spoke to me. Like I don't know what else I could tell I could tell you. Yeah, I know. Um the other uh the other piece I think Johannes you brought up the threatening letters um that did occur. One thing that we can walk away tonight and say like if you get threatening letters, if you see hate speech um right like you you should report it. Um we track those items. We follow up on those items. PD's deeply concerned about them. At a minimum they track them to look for patterns. So even if you're seeing material that you that doesn't feel significant, you taking the time to report it helps PD in and more broadly thinking about the community. Um I have two asks specific around uh around uh

3:04:52 the library funding. Uh there's a lot of stuff in the in tonight. The library funding really is a question that is going to get handled in the budget in the spring. Um, so when when we talk about sharing information, there's a whole public process that we're developing the budget for next year. That conversation is not going to happen until 2026. Um, the flock cameras and I saw some members of the community group in here. We're SK like our our PD our police department, some of the people up on up uh on the deis are meeting with that group on 129 to talk about what the path forward might look like. We're not going to have an answer, you know, for for the next couple of weeks, but we are committed to finding whatever the path

3:05:37 is um around there and getting very clear with the community about what's going to happen. Um what I can tell you is it's going to take a little bit of time. It is what public process looks like. Our police department's committed to that conversation. Elected officials up here are committed to that conversation. But like if for some reason the recommendation is to turn them on, we're we will turn like we will notify and tell the community upfront. I don't know that that's what's going to happen, but I want to at least alleviate the fear that's saying like tomorrow that something is going to happen with with those cameras. Our commitment is to have a conversation and then come back to this body and and talk about it. Um, Rob, the the contract, can somebody

3:06:23 help with the with the with the contract? >> Yeah, I made a note of that. We can follow up. >> All right, perfect. Um, thank you. Um, a couple other miscellaneous things. Um, the library survey. Um, I don't know that I see Cali again. Oh. Um, I would just point I think there's commentary about some of the statistics around that survey and some of the control documentation around it. You might take a you might take a look at it because I think it was effectively an open survey. Um, but I think we if we if we haven't got those to you, we will get we will get them to you. I think that was all I had. Um, did anybody have other comments? Go ahead.

3:07:08 >> I made a note and I forgot to add it. for anybody who might be watching or listening. Um, I re I appreciated the com the the call for an emergency fund for families. Um, I don't know if we're going to get there, but I'm encouraging anybody who's interested in in getting resources. This I'm going to make a plug um to families who are being affected to join me. I donate to Plaza Dinestra Communodad. Um, and they do fantastic work and I was really excited to do whatever I could to help them be able to bring some of those services in here into Springfield. So, if you are someone who wants to use that privilege and wants to use your resources, they are frontline doing this work supporting people. So, it's a it's something you

3:07:53 can do in the short term. Thank you. >> All right. I think that is all the council response we had. Um, we've got a couple more items tonight that we're going to try to squeeze in. I know folks have been here for for a long time. You are more than welcome to stay. Uh, but it is not going to break break our hearts if uh you decide you want to go home. Thanks for coming this evening.

3:08:40 I haven't even Okay. Uh, could we get the next item, please? >> Yes. Uh, any business from the city council? >> I think we are good. Okay. Um, have items under business from the city manager. Item number one is a city street annexation ordinances, a scriber error amendments. Mark Rust is here for this item. This is a first reading and

3:09:27 no action is required. I can keep this really brief and there is a scrivener's error in the title for this item of a scrier's error. So I apologize for that. But um this is to correct a the city street annexations um contained an incorrect special districts reference relating to the Glenwood Water District and Will Kinsey Rural Fire Protection District. Those were remnants of a previous ordinance. Um, so we have struck those and this again is just a first reading tonight. We'll be back with a second reading on the consent calendar to correct those incorrect references. Any questions? All right, first reading. No action. The next item, please.

3:10:12 >> Next item is council action on city manager compensation adjustment. Shane Herz is here for this item. Good evening, mayor and council. Likewise, I will try to be as brief as possible, too. Uh, so Cham Herz, director of human resources, I am here seeking uh a motion from city council regarding the city manager's compensation for fiscal year 26. Last year, the city manager declined a wage increase, and council recently provided guidance for a onetime deposit of 80 hours of PTO in lie of an FY25 adjustment. This year's market review shows that the Springfield city manager salary sitting at 10 and a half% below median of comparable Oregon jurisdictions uh with expected upward

3:10:58 movement in Tiger and Medford once their vacancies are filled. After reviewing the indices and the market data, council previously directed HR to bring forward a 5% increase to the city manager's base wage retro retroactive to July 1 of 25. Uh and the fiscal impact for that is $12,000 ongoing costs and as well as ongoing costs in the future. Tonight's motion, if approved, would formalize the 5% wage adjustment and authorize HR to add 80 hours of PTO to the city manager's le. I'll pause for any questions. >> Uh, I had one question. Is that motion enough to do the PTO portion? >> Yeah, the motion would be for both the 5% and the lump sum payment or the lump sum of 80 hours of PTO to put into the bank for the city manager. Okay, >> great. Any other questions?

3:11:50 Hold the motion as it is. >> I move to adjust the city manager's salary in alignment with current market comparators and the established salary index benchmarks. >> I will second that. >> Could you call the vote, please? >> Yes. Councelor Weber, >> yes. >> Councelor Mo, >> yes. >> Councelor Bradley, >> yes. >> Councelor Blackwell, >> yes. >> Councelor Buck, >> absolutely. And councelor Stout, >> yes. Thank you. Motion passes. Six yeses, zero nos. And I just want to say Nancy, we're glad you're our city manager and we appreciate all the work. Next item, please. Any other business from the city manager? >> No further business. Thank you. >> Any business from the city attorney? >> Uh just two quick things. I um heard from the testimony those communities of Woodburn and Hillsboro. So, we'll start pulling together that information. They did some of the things that folks were

3:12:36 asking for tonight and we'll send that out to the council so you can get an idea what those look like. Um, and you do have an executive session after this. It will be very quick if you still want to have it, but it's regarding some pending litigation. >> Is it progressing that it's got to get done tonight or can we do it next week? >> Uh, Christine is handling it. She can come on up and let you know. >> Because I have a sense that people are going to turn into pumpkins here. >> Um, I can make it very quick tonight if you want to stay for tonight. Otherwise, we could do it next week. I really would need it to be done before you go on break for the holiday though. >> Just do it. >> Okay. All right. They found their second uh their second wind. Okay. I'm going to adjourn the regular session and uh

3:13:22 politely wait for everybody to leave for the executive session except for the press. They can stay.