Springfield City Council — October 19, 2026

0:07 I call the Springfield City Council regular session to order with roll call. >> Mayor Van Gordon. >> Here. >> Councilor Weber. >> Here. >> Councilor Mono. >> Here. >> Councilor Roddy. >> Here. >> Councilor Quadros. >> Here. >> Councilor Buck. >> Here. >> And Councilor Stout. Uh Councilor Stout is excused for the Oh, actually, he Can we double-check? Is he >> He's not online. >> Uh can someone from staff text him and see if he is Is he He is currently planning on joining us. Um normally at this point, I would ask for the pledge of allegiance. When we're done with the pledge, at the request of the council, uh we're going to take a moment of silence for Bend and Silver Rail Elementary. So, please join me for the pledge of allegiance.

1:33 I think Councilor Stout has joined us. There is one designated There is one time designated for public testimony this evening under business from the audience. If you are attending in person, please complete the request to speak card located in the front of the council chambers and turn it into the city recorder. If you're joining us online with a tablet, smartphone, computer, and wish to speak during the business from the audience, please use the raise hand feature in Zoom. The order of testimony is as as follows: anyone in person in the Council Chambers and anyone who has raised their virtual hand. First item, please. >> Mayor, the first item is Springfield update. You have two items. Uh this item one is Spiritual Care Week at PeaceHealth Sacred Heart Medical Center RiverBend, which is October 18th through the 24th, and the second item is

2:19 Spiritual Care Week at PeaceHealth Sacred Heart Hospice, which is the same dates. >> This is the Spiritual Care Week for PeaceHealth Sacred Heart at RiverBend. Whereas, spiritual care is a recognized and essential component of whole person health, addressing the emotional, existential, and spiritual dimensions of illness, grief, injury, and healing alongside medical treatment. And whereas, board-certified chaplains serves integral members of the interdisciplinary care team at PeaceHealth Sacred Heart Bend uh RiverBend and provide spiritual assessment, crisis intervention, ethical consultation, and companionship to

3:06 patients, families, and the staff of all faith traditions and of no faith traditions. Whereas, the practice of spiritual care at PeaceHealth Sacred Heart Medical Center RiverBend is grounded in inclusivity, pity, compassion, evidence-based clinical practice, and honoring of the diverse spiritual, cultural, and religious identities of patients and families served throughout our Springfield community. And whereas, spiritual care contributes to measurably to patient and family coping, decision-making, and resilience. And whereas, the spiritual care team at PeaceHealth at RiverBend and Sacred Heart Hospice have faithfully served our families, patients, and the

3:53 staff of this community. I, Shawn Van Gordon, the mayor of Springfield, proclaim October 18th through 24th, 2026, as Spiritual Care Week in in Springfield, and recognize Peace Health Sacred Sacred Heart Medical Center. And I call upon all residents in our community to recognize the vital contribution of the Spiritual Care team. All right. I think we have both teams here, so we're going to Spiritual Care up first, then I'll read the second resolution, and then we'll have them we'll have second. We're going to take a picture right down here in this wall.

5:36 Okay, I got both teams up. I'll go ahead and read the hospice presentation, so as well. Whereas hospice care affirms life and regards dying as a natural part of the human journey, offering comfort, dignity, and support to individuals, families, and families facing terminal illness. Whereas chaplains and spiritual care providers at our hospitals offer compassionate, inclusive, and evidence-based care that honors diverse spiritual, cultural, and religious identities of patients throughout Springfield, meeting each person without judgment and without regard to their faith tradition. And whereas spiritual care at the end of life contributes measurably to patient comfort, family coping, peace in dying, and sustained resilience of caregivers. And whereas the spiritual care and patient services team at PeaceHealth

6:21 Sacred Heart Hospice has faithfully served this community, families, and patients with skill and compassion, I, Sean Van Gordon, mayor of Springfield, do proclaim October 18th through 24th as spiritual care week at PeaceHealth Sacred Heart Hospice. Thank you guys so much for coming out today. Okay. Um for the PeaceHealth team, you're more than welcome to join us for and and stay for the rest of the meeting, but we've got quite a bit ahead of us, so it would be perfectly if you want to excuse yourself, that way we'd understand as well. Uh next item, please. >> Mayor, the next item is the consent calendar.

7:10 >> I move approval of the consent calendar. >> Second. >> Okay. Is there any uh discussion to the motion for the consent calendar? Neil, could you call the vote, please? >> Yes, Councilor Weber. >> Yes. >> Councilor Mano. >> Yes. >> Councilor Rodley. >> Yes. >> Councilor Quadros. >> Yes. >> Councilor Beck. >> Yes. >> And Councilor Stout. >> Yes, thank you. >> I think we saw an affirmative from Councilor Stout, too. Uh motion passes, six yeses, zero nos. Next item, please. We have no public hearings this evening, so your next item is business from the audience. Um we're going to do a little bit of organizational um issue questions. Um Neil because we have 20 minutes allotted for this, could you just check do we have

7:55 any hands online? We do not appear to have hands for this item. So, right now I have six total cards. Um that should be pretty close to get through in 20 minutes. I will set a timer and then we can check in when we get closer. Is that good? Okay. And I know that there have been some concerns about about data centers and Council Quarters had a question before we got started. >> So, I am under the impression also that there may be residents here tonight with concerns about data centers and um I

8:40 take these concerns very seriously. Um can we take a moment to establish some facts publicly on behalf of both the council and the public before we start comment? Um City Manager Nancy, may I uh clarify with you whether the city has received any inquiries from data center companies, developers, or their representatives about locating or expanding a facility in Springfield? That includes preliminary conversations, site inquiries, pre-application meetings, not just a formal application. Are there any of those discussions currently active? >> Councilor Quarters, there are not. >> Okay, and then I have a second question. Uh what is the city's policy or practice regarding non-disclosure agreements in economic development?

9:25 >> The city does not participate in non-disclosure agreements. We are has been practice in the past that we have um not relied on those. Um and that's been our practice and policy is that we do not sign non-disclosure agreements. >> Okay, I appreciate that. I feel like this allows us all a shared factual starting point for public comment tonight. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. So, I will call the first item. The first are the first card, it's Vanessa Barbarisi. Come up and you have 3 minutes to talk to the council.

10:12 >> Mic test. >> Yes. >> Excellent. Hello, I'm Vanessa Barbarisi, the CEO and general manager at Springfield Utility Board. I'm here tonight to introduce myself as I've been in the role now for 3 and 1/2 months, which is a part of City of Springfield's charter and a close partner. I've worked across industries and primarily in utilities for the past 20 years, starting in engineering, customer research, and technology both within the United States and internationally across Australia, Italy, up through Canada and Newfoundland. I um I also worked in large investor-owned utilities including AES and PG&E. I come

10:57 back to Springfield, uh born and raised here as the CEO and general manager for SUB. Part of my introduction tonight with you is because I haven't had the pleasure of meeting everybody in City Council. I deeply appreciate the service that you provide and the partnership both with Nancy, the city manager, and with Neil, the assistant city manager. We're working on a critical project together with the city for the McKenzie River water supply project. And um in that, we are we've been working on this project since 2007. We've been conducting customer research and I would like to share just a couple tidbits with you. I know you have a busy night ahead of you. We do have continued planned investment

11:43 going into 2027 and we'll continue working with you guys to share how those plans are coming and get your feedback and your understanding of what this water supply project and the treatment plant will provide for city of Springfield and its residents. Some of the things that are important to note are some of the customer research where we have heard from our residents and constituents that we need to have a resilient source of water that is independent and the McKenzie River water supply project does provide that to us. It is also earthquake resilient as we continue to prepare for potential Cascadia event. We've been going through and uh producing seismically sound pumps, uh

12:29 reinforcing our wells and our well houses so that we can continue to provide water in case of an emergency. The wildfire protection and supply for East Springfield and the robustness of the water supply project will also be critical in that infrastructure buildout. We have the eligibility for grants and are working on continued funding options to bring this to fruition. It'll start at 10 million gallons a day. It'll start at seven initially going to 10 and ending at between 19 and 23 million gallons a day. That is all I have for my time. It is a pleasure to meet you and I look forward to continuing to work with you and to partner with you Nancy and Neil. >> Thank you very much.

13:15 Next two cards we're going to go two at a time from um now on so if we'll go one person and then a second person. Um Lorissa Chisholm and then Bill Barnard. All right, Alyssa. If you can Perfect. Go ahead. >> All right. First and foremost, I want to thank all of you for being here tonight. I know that it's a Monday at 7:00 p.m. and just everyone being committed to this is already a wonderful feat of civic participation. I also want to thank Jill for the clarification on data centers because that is the reason that I was encouraged to come here today was at least to speak about that in a public forum and to petition you all on that

14:02 subject. While we don't need to have data centers or we don't have any inquiries or any within our boundaries and it's unlikely that we are able to have those. It does we still are able to feel the effect and we are able to implement fail-safes for whatever may be the next big thing that does come into our way. I do think that through this kind of consideration, we are able to focus on building a framework that will focus towards community resilience in the face of large high usage extraction of resources for things that are not going to be applicable in the Springfield area. Um Eugene-Springfield metropolitan area is

14:47 a regional hub and so this is going to also be an example of frameworks that can help build sound governance throughout. So while I'm not going to be calling specifically for a moratorium, I don't think that's a reason. There are two things now that I think would be able to help, which would be committing to having no subsidies for zero job facilities that are within the Springfield region. So that would mean the prohibit prohibition of tax abatements, breaks, or any kind of system development fee waivers for any kind of future low employment or high resource industrial you project or computing project. Now that does sound a lot a little bit scary, especially because what if that's critical infrastructure? The second thing would be to set clear definitions of what critical infrastructure is. A data center in its

15:34 traditional form is about the size of a closet sometimes. Hyperscale data centers use up to 1.3 gigawatts of energy per hour. They are very different things. One is able to hold all of our phones, communicate with Zoom, and then the other uses more energy than Marty McFly needed to return back to the future. Um so, that is just something to really keep into consideration so that if something is high load and non-critical to infrastructure, making sure that it is well defined in the policy and also that it pays 100% of its upfront costs. Um I also do want to thank you again because you answered my third point, which is committing to that transparency, making sure that there is no uh non-disclosure agreements for these

16:20 kind of commercial tech developers or any other high usage extracting resources. So, thank you so much for considering the long-term risk and the future resilience of Springfield, and I am looking forward to hearing the rest of the comments. >> So, could you state where you're from for the record? >> Oh, I am from Springfield, Oregon, and I currently live in Ward 1. >> Thank you. Go ahead. >> Hi there. Good evening. Uh my name is Bo Bernardo. I'm the director of operations at Saint Vincent de Paul, and out of uh a lot of different programs, I'm also responsible for Egan Warming Center. Um Egan is near and dear to my heart, and uh I figured it was an appropriate time as we're getting ready to kick off the winter um to kind of come and and uh see you all and kind of give you as much of an update as I can, and also to correct the record um from an interview

17:05 that was published this morning on KLCC. Um we are not in any way not trying to operate in Springfield, Oregon. Um that was that was a miscommunication, and what I'd actually said was that we were actively working to identify sites where we could be. Um and that got published as there's a large possibility that we're not going to operate in in Springfield. That is not the case. Um one way or the other, we're going to we're going to keep pushing forward as we always have to make sure this happens. Um aside from that, um I can say we don't have a location at this time. My intent is to keep hammering on our Mohawk site that we used last year um at uh Mohawk and Centennial. It was ideal for us in so many ways and I'm still very hopeful that we can get uh permission for that to to go forward. Um there's some some hurdles still, but

17:50 I I I think it's I think it's doable. Um other than that, I'm excited to operate here. We had a really successful year last year. It was the first year, as you know, of our um our tent program where we put up an emergency shelter and didn't need any outside resources. We brought in our own water, our own our own power. Everything was self-contained and it was it was great. It was it was successful. We served several hundred individuals there. Um and I'm looking forward to doing it again. I think the only ask I would have is just the continued support um from from Neil and his team and everybody's in has been incredible here just to to keep that pushing forward. Um there was some other property we were hopeful to uh partake in a 90-day lease um that was for sale um and the owner wasn't interested in doing that, which I can I can partially understand, but we

18:36 we are getting close and uh I'm I don't want to say I'm nervous because we always come through in a pinch, but it it's it's we're we're are getting there. Um other than that, I want to be respectful of the time here and just wanted to correct that and um give way. >> All right. Thank you both very much. >> Absolutely. >> Uh next cards are uh Jason Prophet and Gary Deerdorf. >> You want to start, Gary? >> Thank you. You've done this before, I know. >> Jason Prophet, 657 Quarry Road here in Springfield, Ward 2. My main concern is Thursday coming out

19:21 of the mountains. I heard on my radio no medics available and critical shortage of medics. Now, you guys want to grow the city, but not provide the services. I want tax refund on this. I got a really super great response from Mr. Caven with uh Eugene Fire on Saturday explaining uh what's causing all the issue. Nothing to resolve it. We got to get this resolved. I'm on the I want my money back on the fire service. My next issue is this summer I called in a domestic dispute where you walked in there on that up

20:06 there on Park during an ice storm. >> [clears throat] >> Neighbors up there fighting. 30 minutes later I get a call back from the police department but trying to find the address. I hope that daughter whoever's daughter that was was okay. So, he's telling me from 4th Street two blocks away that it's quiet and peaceful. I asked him to do a uh welfare check and he was not interested in knocking on that door. That's not the service we're paying for. And I wore this hickory shirt tonight for everybody to remember it the people that built this town was loggers and mill workers.

20:57 >> Hello, Gary. Durdorf here. Uh don't do this very often, so bear with me. Oh, sorry. 38450 McKenzie Highway. Still Springfield, but I'm outside the city limits. I'd like to address the homeless in in Springfield here. Uh it's getting to be pretty bad, I think. The illegal camping and all that going on. Uh I know there's a lot of trespass, burglaries, you know, I don't know how many of these guys are you know, violating parole and that sort of thing. I know they had a guy a while back uh at Albertsons, they caught him. He was from Florida and uh he had an outstanding warrant on him, so I'm just concerned about this cuz I grew up in Eugene, moved to Springfield, then I moved out to where I'm at now on

21:42 McKenzie Highway and and on even I had to call state police, there was some transient out there mile post 10 who was could have been out in traffic and got ran over, so he was a hazard, traffic hazard. So, I'm just concerned with the illegal camping and a lot of this stuff that's going on here and I just don't want to see Springfield turn into Eugene, you know, I I like Springfield, it's a good town. I boycott Eugene. I won't buy much of anything from them because of what goes on there, so uh thank you for your time. >> All right, thank you. Next two callers I have are Charlotte Helmer and uh Miguel Rivas.

22:39 Um my name is Charlotte Helmer. I am a resident of Springfield and I'm here today because I wanted to talk briefly about the Egan Warming Centers. I've been a volunteer with the Egan Warming Centers um for several years and for the past seven, well, going into the seventh season as a lead volunteer. Um I wanted to mention that as we are getting into the winter, we're seeing these colder and colder nights. We are going to be moving into Egan season when we set up a shelter and bring in as many of our neighbors as we can. Um as Bill mentioned, we're still looking for a site. We do not have a building. It's been um a year now since we had a building. What we did last year was successful. It was also very hard. Um

23:24 this is kind of a a huge feat every winter that requires a lot of teamwork and collaboration among a lot of different parties in Springfield. So, what I I ask is that you just be aware that we're getting into Egan season and we would really appreciate your attention and support as we move through the season. We're hoping that we're it's going to be relatively warm and we won't be active a lot, but ultimately we will be here for whatever Springfield needs. And in the year when we had the ice storm, the need was incredible as as I think that all of you know. Um so, we're hoping that it's we're not doing Egan in hard mode, but if that's what happens, we will we will be here for it. Um just to give you a sense, last year across the Egan warming center network,

24:10 so Eugene and Springfield, we were open for 19 nights. We served 1,276 individual guests. That's that individual stays. 20% of our guests were seniors. 70% were disabled and we especially see a lot of limited mobility. Um and 95% of our guests are from here. Um so, we I I look forward to the season. Um we're going to do good work and we really appreciate your attention. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miguel. >> Hi, I'm uh Miguel from Ward 2 here in Springfield. Um and I also came here to talk about data centers. Uh luckily, we had some of um,

24:58 some of that information earlier, and someone else has already talked about data centers as well. And so, it's great that I think it's great that we're talking about this even when like there is no discussions of something to be made, I still think it's a really good discussion to have. It has a lot of national attention right now. Um, and I feel like it would even be a good idea to let a lot of the, uh, people of Springfield know that we already have these things in place, that we're already transparent on NDAs, that, um, we already are there are no discussions being made and things like that, because I have been researching trying to figure out exactly where Oregon is, and it seems like there was a shift recently. Oregon was very friendly to data

25:44 centers, um, couple years ago, and then it's only because of, um, it's actually not really, I don't know how much it was related to the boom in, um, AI. I think it may have been just related to the actual economics of data centers even before that wasn't beneficial, and Oregon finally caught on. And that was, um, I think earlier this year, I think it was pretty recently. Um, I So, I just wanted to say that it would be nice for there to be like some more statements of Springfield, like from the official city of Springfield. People trust that information, and that would be great. Um, and then, also would like to, um,

26:31 actually, feel like that would be it. Thank you very much. >> Uh, thank you. Let's check to see if we got hands online before we move to council response. No hands for this item. Okay, then I think we're ready for a council response. Does anybody want to, uh, Council Roddy? >> Thank you. Thank you everyone for coming out. Um to share on the different perspectives. Um first of all, I wanted to say to Bill, thank you. Um I was asking questions about this at the Human Services Commission meeting today. I don't know if you were on there and I was like, I read this article. What's going on on? Um so, I really appreciate you coming out and sharing cuz I was concerned about that. And as you know, um where you were last year is in Ward 3. Keep me in the loop because, you

27:17 know, we we met several times and I meet with the neighbors. So, keep me in the loop and thanks for coming and sharing all of that. Um and then to um particularly Miguel at the very end, I also have been wanting us to share this out because we've we've dug in of several weeks ago. We were like, what's going on? And I'm like, can you all give me something that I can take to people? So, now that we've had a public meeting, I think we can have this conversation in a much more public way. Um early on, you know, in in early in the year when I was talking to folks and a lot of people weren't tracking in Springfield around data centers and we don't have a lot of land for it. So, it didn't seem like a big a big thing, but it was now we're getting into the weeds and it could be a conversation that we could have as a community as like, what do we want this

28:02 to look like moving forward? So, I agree with them. Thank you for everybody for coming out and sharing on that. Thank you. >> Yes. Um Yeah, excuse me. Um thank you so much for coming out. I've got just a a couple of a a couple of comments. Um do we have any more updated information from the city as far as what's going on with Egan? It would be nice to have maybe connect with them and >> Um actually, Bill, both Bill and Char are really excellent at keeping us updated. So, we've been in the loop the whole time. And if they need any assistance, we offer it. But, they've been um doing pretty well on their own this year. >> I would tell you the last probably 10 years of the conversation with Egan,

28:47 we're always in the same spot where it never is solved until it's solved. And thank you for hanging in with their ass. Also, thank you Charlotte. I know how much work you and your family do to keep Egan Warming Center going. And it's good to see you in and volunteering and volunteering again. Um the other uh the other couple of comments, I guess the the question about data centers. Uh I want to echo what Council Roddy has. Thank you for coming and asking the questions, right? That's how we get the information out to folks and maybe we can look at, you know, releasing some facts uh FAQs about it. Uh the one question the one thing in the city of Springfield, especially when you think about these big hyperscale uh hyperscale facilities, we really

29:32 don't have land that size. And you know, if you re- if you read our industrial lands studies, right? We we are actively trying to find acreage that is 25 acres or more to keep growing the city. We don't have a lot of huge parcels that are just undeveloped in and available. Now, with that being said, two places I would love to hear more information about about this um Nancy would be um one just the question about how the interaction, and not specifically to data centers, but between us and the utility board goes about these qualifications of big industrial users and how we kind of evaluate evaluate that. It's the same issue, but it would be a good place to get, you know, move our move our knowledge up. And then I think the second, we heard this in

30:17 public comment, All right. We hit our 20 minutes. Um is if you could just comment about about tax abatements, right? Because um in this case, you know, big industrial tax abatements are usually sound like they're they're not something we usually administer. It's usually under a state under a state program. And just give us some feedback about like, hey, is that a lever we can pull? >> Uh sure, Mayor. I'm happy to do that. Um >> And and I will and if you want a minute and you want to send it in a memo, I'm perfectly fine, too. >> I can do that. I can speak to it briefly here and um because we do have our partners from SUB in the audience and I really appreciate Vanessa coming here to tonight. Um They've been great partners. I think it's important when people talk

31:02 think about data centers, it's not just um the location, but also the infrastructure that would be required to serve that large of a need. Um and I I don't believe that we have the I think SUB would have to make a decision around acquiring that much. It's electricity is traded as a commodity and so they would have to you know, probably purchase a lot more. Um so it's a a much bigger conversation. Um additionally, any tax abatements, those are as you said, largely at the discretion of the state. Um I know that Governor Kotek has um made some statements recently about data centers and wanting to get more clarity

31:47 around what we're doing as a state. So that's an issue that I've been tracking closely. I've actually been tracking data centers for a number of years just because of um the impact I think and the perhaps unintended consequence if a community does have that locate. Um there is one in The Dalles for instance um with Google. Um that does take up quite a lot of resources and it it does um impact the the city of The Dalles. So just because I'm a city manager kind of dork, I I sort of look at this stuff. Um And I think you know, to the broader issue of what do you as a council prioritize? I think you've been very clear in your policies about employment

32:32 and industries that bring in uh family wage jobs and also looking at the highest and best use for land. And that's an overall philosophy when you talk about making decisions about permitting and zoning and all of the decisions that you make as a policy board. So, I would just assure the community that you as an elected body are very um committed to business and growing employment and the economic base in our community. >> And I will take that one step further. The The economic base because that's what pays for people's jobs and we want people's wages to go up. So, all right. Um I think that was it. I think we're ready for the next item. Next item is any business from the city

33:17 council. Any more business from the city council? No? Next item, please. All right, next item is business from the city manager. Item number one is the P11026 City Hall South and West Stair Repairs. Mike Espinoza is here for this item. >> Good afternoon, uh mayor and councilors. Thank you for having me. So, my name is Mike Espinoza. I'm the facilities manager here. So, um I came here today um to let you guys know what is going on with the stairs, right? So, we finally have a a bit of a resolution or at least some action moving forward on the stairs. So, um we'll talk about that. So, the purpose of this project is to address uh deteriorating concrete, uh improve to

34:02 pedestrian safety, and help preserve the uh condition of the stairs. Um as you guys can tell, these entrances aren't the greatest, right? And so, uh tonight I'll kind of give you guys a little um kind of information on how both set of stairs are kind of different, right? So, the ones on the west side of the um of the building where you come in for the uh library, those are uh concrete all the way through. So, those uh as you can tell have been preserved a little They're actually lasting a little longer. So, um the ones on the south side, um that's the the stairs they uh engineered a lot different. They're more of a floating stair, and so then it becomes a bigger challenge to figure out how we're going to preserve it, how are we going to uh make do an intermediate uh fix on it so they last a little longer. Um

34:49 so with the uh with the issues that we're having is we're having damaged um concrete, right? With damaged concrete, we're going to have safety hazards. We're going to have um a lot of uh rebar that is exposed, so now we can only use a half of the stair. Um so it's uh my my job is is to make sure that, you know, we maintain safe entrances and uh how important our responsibility is to the public and city hall officials to come in. Um The uh scope of work that I have uh for the RFP that I have out right now is uh inspecting the existing uh condition of the concrete in all the damaged areas. Um we're going to remove loose um or unsound concrete as needed. Uh prepare the existing surfaces for any type of repairs, applying any appropriate uh concrete repairs, uh which just includes

35:35 material materials, um refinishing the uh surfaces that we can save now. Um on the south side, we have a little more of a challenge uh cuz those stairs have gone a little too far. Um so my goal is uh to complete a durable repair that addresses of the damages and extends the service life. Um one one of the things that I look forward to is is also the safety and coordination, right? Uh so protect like I said employees, the visitors. Um when this is happening, we do uh take into account the ADA accessibility. Um so we'll make sure that any type of repair uh it takes that into account and makes sure that we don't uh affect any service um here here at city hall, so um my overall goal is to maintain um like I said safety, uh access, uh protect the

36:21 city's investments and its facilities, and keep uh city hall in good conditions. Uh thank you. Um that's all I have, and if you guys have any questions I'll be more than happy to answer. >> All right, Council Waldleigh. >> This is probably like wishful First of all, thank you. I'm so excited about this project. I think I said this in a meeting before, so thank you for getting us to it. Do you have an estimation of like how long it might take, how the public might be impacted? And that's probably asking a lot at the beginning. >> that's that's when I went into this project that's the first thing that I think about is how are we going to be respectful towards business, how are we going to be effective? One thing that I did ask in this RSP is we we want the contractors to come with

37:06 ideas and conversations on how to better repair these. So before I start any of that I will come back and kind of better address you guys once we know everything that's going on. >> All right, any other questions? Do we have a motion? >> So no motion for this item. Just an update. >> All right, thank you. Next item, please. The next item is the wastewater regionalization update and intergovernmental agreement. Stan Petroff is here for this item. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. I'm here I'm Stan Petroff, City

37:51 Engineer. I'm also here with Dan Hurley from Lane County, senior project manager. Tonight we're here to give an update on the regional wastewater project and I'm requesting authorization for the City Manager to enter into an intergovernmental agreement with Lane County and the City of Creswell to fund and administer a capacity study for Springfield's portion, which is the Franklin McVay wastewater trunk line. The regionalization project is exploring connections from Creswell, Goshen, and Short Mountain Landfill to the MWMC regional wastewater system. Those connections would use Springfield's existing trunk lines, so we need to understand how the additional flows would affect its capacity. Um preliminary studies generally indicate sufficient capacity in major system components. However, potential limitations may be at the Glenwood pump

38:36 station, the McVay trunk line, which is what this study would focus on, and the Willamette River crossing. Uh protecting existing ratepayers and preserving capacity for future growth remain key considerations. This IGA establishes how the trunk line study would be managed and paid for. Springfield would serve as the default contracting agency with flexibility to request another contracting arrangement with Lane County if needed. Um Creswell and Lane County would need to approve the scope of this and have the cost estimate in writing before the contracts are executed or billable work begins. Lane County and Creswell would each pay 50% of study expenses. Uh they would also 50% each and pay for the total thing. Um they would also reimburse Springfield staff time at

39:21 standard personnel rates plus overhead. Reimbursement would be due to Springfield within 30 days of receiving an itemized uh invoice. And I wanted to point out a change in the IGA from what everybody saw in the packet. There was um we agreed on a not to exceed of $40,000 um for the study and I think it was mentioned around not to exceed $100,000. Um I we think that we can get the study done in that in that price. Anything over that we'd have to talk about if we're going to need spend more, the city would have to come up with the the money for that. Um and then the project broader project's schedule for the whole project, the Metro Plan Amendment was going to happen this fall and it's planned to happen this fall or next fall 2027. Um preliminary designs for Creswell and Junction City are anticipated in late '27 and early '28.

40:06 Um and the IGA would remain in effect for up to 24 months or until a comprehensive construction and operation agreement is executed, whichever occurs first. Um tonight's authorization would just advance the study of the capacity for the trunk line. Um, future connection construction and operation terms would require a separate agreement. And so we recommend a motion tonight to approve the IGA so we can obtain technical information needed to evaluate the proposed connections and their impact on Springfield's infrastructure. And I'm also willing to explain kind of our portion there. I don't know if everybody's familiar with that and or not. Um, it's basically the north-south uh, portion in McVay Highway. It's 18 in or so then up near the roundabout, the big roundabout it it goes up to like 24 in and then it's 30 all the way down um, where to where it

40:52 connects to the pump station. It's pumped under the river and that section is MWMCS. So from that point where it leaves the Franklin right-of-way it becomes MWMCS. But everything from there south to the city limits is what we're looking at. >> Further questions? Uh, Counselor Buck. >> So, um, I've definitely found this particular very interesting. Um, and so I just want to clarify um, kind of what's in scope of this and what's what's and what's not. I mean I know at some point we'll we'll get around to all the different pieces of it. Um, but is this is this going to look at the whole system or just Springfield's um, portion?

41:37 And um, and and with capacity, you know, I'm also interested in resource management. I mean, one of the comments we heard tonight earlier was about resource management with with data centers but it it it this is also going to use resources um, water, energy, all of those things. So I'm just I'm just curious about the impact um, that that's going to have on on not only our community but you know, between here and and Crestline because not being an engineer, not knowing how all of these things work, um, it seems to me that um it's a bit of a distance from from here here to here to to Creswell, and I've always kind of wondered like is, you

42:24 know, are are are we capturing like you know, the pros and cons in resource management all this, and is this the study that's going to speak to those things, or is is it more limited in scope? And I again, I know you're going to get to it at some point. I just don't know when or where [clears throat] all that happens. >> Yeah, this particular IGA tonight is just the small section of Springfield's. Um Dan's working with Creswell to preliminary design all of it down to Creswell. That's a separate uh process, and then MWM C has got the majority of it with the treatment plant and all the other piping that gets from Glenwood to the treatment plant. So, that's really the bigger project. I think Dan's coming to council later this year to update on that on the bigger project. That's kind of where you Yeah, exactly. This is just a little the little piece of

43:09 Springfield. So, we're looking at like is that 18, 24, or 30-in you know, 18, 24, and 30-in pipes? Are those big enough? Do we need to upsize them? Um and then into the future, what does the operations and maintenance of that look like? Um so. >> Any other questions? >> Um I'm glad to see this is a project. This is a huge issue for South Lane County and Creswell. I mean, because basically all development is stopped down there. Um and I'm glad we're just continuing to plug away and keep going forward. >> I move to authorize the city manager to enter into an intergovernmental agreement IGA with Lane County and the city of Creswell for funding and administration of a wastewater regionalization capacity study of the Franklin McVay wastewater trunk line.

43:54 Second. >> Is there any discussion to this? Okay, Neil, could you call the vote, please? >> Yes, Counselor Weber. >> Yes. >> Counselor Moe. >> Yes. >> Counselor Rodley. >> Yes. >> Counselor Quadros. >> Yes. >> Counselor Buck. >> Yes. >> And Councilor Stout? >> Yes. >> All right, we have six yeses, zero nos. Item passes. Next item, please. >> Any other business from the city manager? >> No further business, thank you. >> Under business from the city attorney, we have the annual review of council operating policies and procedures.

45:01 >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Mary Bridget Smith and I'm here uh to tonight uh to provide the annual review of your operating policies and procedures as per the charter. Um I have a presentation tonight uh with a PowerPoint and then we'll be looking for your direction on a few items and this should be um fairly quick. So, this is the agenda. It's to remind the council of why this item is before you, review what you did last year, uh revisit reimbursements, and then uh was hoping to have a conversation about public testimony and council correspondence to see if the council wanted to approach that uh differently or if you had any feedback about um how that's going from your perspective.

45:50 So, the Springfield City Council operating policies and procedures are the rules about how you do your business. Um they are posted on the city's website. Uh you also have a copy in your packet. They really focus often on the meeting because that's the majority of the place where the city council does its business. So, it's a lot of procedure about the meeting agenda, um the quorum at the meeting, testifying at a council meeting, and the kinds of things that occur at a council meeting. There's also information about council reimbursements, um boards and commissions. The Springfield charter requires an annual review. So, that's why I'm before you uh today to in order to get that done. Also, um almost every uh council has these types of rules. It's not uncommon to have this sort of requirement to review, but they

46:36 do really vary by jurisdiction. So, it's really within your purview how you want these rules to work. They can change uh over time, um and many uh parts of them can also remain the same. So, this is an area, I think, of your work where you have a lot of flexibility. Um and I also want you to know that your rules are good now. So, we're not in a situation where you're trying to um you know, update very dated rules, or you're trying to play catch up. They're fine. You look at them once a year, and if they need to be changed, there's a process for doing that. Sorry about that. So, 2025 recap, uh cheese and crackers. Last year, I came to you and explained

47:22 um that there was an ethics opinion uh about how um food and beverage that uh councilors or public officials get to consume in the scope of their duties um was seen as a um prohibited use of office, and it got kind of complicated with the Oregon Government Ethics Commission and lots of local jurisdictions, and um resulted in trying to bring some legislation uh to the legislature in the next session, and they did. So, there's been a legislative fix, uh HB 4161. You now uh public officials are uh free to consume food and beverage at your meetings uh or in your official capacity. Um so that's been excluded from some of these restrictions about use of office.

48:09 There's also a companion to that of $100 worth of merchandise in a calendar year. You know, I would think of that separate from food and beverage. It'd be like a hat or a vest or um some kind of merchandise you might get um from the city. Uh so I don't think that this needs to be reflected in your rules since it's in the statute, but we can sort of check this issue off in terms of trying to address it. Any questions about cheese and crackers? Okay. All right. The next uh area I wanted to um review was last year we had a discussion about reimbursements. So the city council is not compensated for its work, but it can get a reimbursement for its expenses. The rules for your reimbursement are

48:54 laid out in your operating policies, and I apologize that text is um quite small. Um but we uh talked last year and I received direction about updating uh the reimbursements. You know, it still has like reimbursements for long-distance calls, so to for example. So there are things that could be updated. There are things that could be added such as dependent care or daycare or elder care for time when you have to come to uh a city council meeting and you have to try and get that care. That can be a signal to the community that they are willing to look um and consider folks who have different life experience and different things that they need to do, and that it's just not always easy for everybody to be able to um leave their family responsibilities uh to come do some of their council

49:39 responsibilities. Another area we had talked about was uh travel. Um you are reimbursed for travel. There's sort of two categories of travel that the council um has. Uh one is if let's say you travel to Bend or Salem for a conference, which is more rare, but something that you do. You can get reimbursed similar to an employee with the IRS mileage rate. You put in for a reimbursement and that just runs through the city. There's this other category of travel of travel and we were able to look through some of your reimbursements over the past year where it's really the travel you do in your sort of everyday work, right? It's travel from your house to here quite a bit, travel to Eugene or the Lane County building or to meet with constituents.

50:26 And you you know, putting in for that kind of travel reimbursement can be pretty tedious because you're doing like, you know, 3 miles here this and it's often. But we do have some data now that has you know, some sort of examples of travel from like Ward 6 and also Ward 1. So, one thing we could bring to the council is developing like a you know, an estimated stipend per month per councilor to deal with that mileage reimbursement for that sort of local travel that you engage in. So, I'd like if you're if you're up for that kind of looking at that, we can draft some language and bring that back to you at a later time to see if that's something that would appeal. The next part would be looking at

51:13 increases. So, over time reimbursements, right, will increase sometimes by like a factor like a CPI or a body can just decide that it should go up by a certain percentage. What's tricky for a city council is you're not supposed to vote to enrich yourself, no matter how small >> [laughter] >> the enrichment is. And it gets to be kind of complicated in that like you could vote, but then you wouldn't be able to partake in that increase until there had been an election for your seat had passed or there's this other voting method where you like don't vote for your seat and we vote like six times. Um, so it can be kind of cumbersome and it keeps councils from really keeping

51:58 reimbursements sort of up up to speed so to speak. So one thing we're trying to look at is if there's some external way we could have a metric that like every 3 years the city manager would look and see if there's a change in CPI local CPI and see if the reimbursements could be increased by that. Keeps the council out of it. It's next to a it's compared to a real or a sort of more trusted comparison than just sort of guessing like, oh, maybe it's this percentage. So we'd like to bring that language back to you um, as well and see if there's something that we can do there. Um, the third item with reimbursements is that that is happens to be a part of your operating policies that's quite old and really needs to be reworked and rewritten. So what I'm asking for is

52:43 direction to see if I could bring that back to you in 2027 after that we're sort of running out of meeting time here in the fall. Um, but if that would be a good time where we have a little more time to just re-evaluate and see if we can get somewhere on updating reimbursements at the very least and trying to get those sort of on the right path. Does that something that sound okay? >> Absolutely. >> Thank you for this and thank you for doing the pre-work cuz then it reminds me of the conversations we had last time. Um, I really like the idea of looking at what a stipend for travel would be. Like I've been on council now for six I've never asked for any never put in for any any of that. Um, but I know that it could be, you know, particularly folks who live way out and you know, that could be really cumbersome. So I'm very interested in

53:28 that and I know we we just touched on dependent care and it might even been counselor Stout who brought that up last year and I I'm very interested in that I do think that that that is it can be a barrier for people especially on a Monday night. Um, and so I I support this and think we should look at this and in whatever ways we need to to to kind of bring it up to speed. And also the the point about the stipend, like I think it's been $85 for like 15 years or something. Like it it it it Yeah. Um, and so for future council to have something that's that's adequate, I think is important. >> Any Any buddy else before we go? Uh, Council Stout. >> Thank you for that. Um, I agree >> We cannot hear you. Hold on.

54:15 >> Can you hear me now? >> What do you think of that? >> I I think Can you hear me now? >> We still We still cannot hear you. Hang on. We are working the problem. Uh, now you're muted. >> How about now? >> You're muted. >> Okay, it it >> Alan, it's going to be It's going to be something on your side. And if I think we may You may have to call Mary Bridget with your feedback later. >> Okay, that's fine. >> Okay. So, I think you got a head nod to like this is going to take more than a

55:00 minute, but just modernizing the language, you know, um, and working through some of these CPI issues and making it work a little bit better. Uh, it looks like Yeah, I think we're we're generally all supportive of that. >> Okay. So, I'll put that into my sort of work plan to start in early 2027 and we'll get that on the calendar to move that forward. And in the meantime, if you think of other things or have questions, you can always contact me about it. Okay. The next, uh, part I wanted to talk about was, um, public communication with the council. And the first section is council correspondence. Do I need to do anything? Okay. Okay, we got it. Okay. Great.

55:46 I know. I might have been I'm not done. I got it. Thank you. Okay. So, I want to talk about two types of communication with a public tonight. The first is managing council correspondence. One is a question, and then also I just want to talk about this so the council and the public is familiar with how this is managed. So, when I mean council correspondence, I'm talking about emails or letters that come into the council and the city manager's office on behalf of for the council. So, as it works now, if the city receives communications from the public for an item that's on the agenda on the coming agenda. So, something like if you for example

56:32 tonight if you receive you receive something about the stairs. And if we get it within time, we can include it in the packet. And then that way you have it as part of the packet. You can review it in part of your decision-making for that and also as part of the record retention for that because now it's going to be inside the packet. If it doesn't make that deadline though, you still get it. So, I still want the public to understand that it's not like we just hang on to it. It's like if something comes into the city manager's office, it doesn't make it for the packet, but it would still be forwarded to the council which by now is forwarded to you from the city manager's office. You'll see that that testimony comes in. So, I want the public to know that they still get it. It's just not in the public it's not in the official packet.

57:19 One thing we're running into is the way the rules are written now, it's like Wednesday by noon things can be included in the packet which can be tricky for us in terms of publishing and getting the packet done cuz staff tries to do that on Thursday. So, this isn't the hugest deal, but if you're okay with maybe shifting that date a little bit to like a Tuesday to provide a little more time um for staff to get that in is a question that we have for you or if you have a preference. >> So, let me ask a a couple of clarifying questions here. So, the first the first thing I think of is like there's really two types of work items we deal with, right? One of them has a record that we're legally bound. >> Yes. >> So, if we get it after if we get correspondence, you know, after the meeting, right? Like staff goes back and

58:05 sort of puts that in the file, right? >> That's correct. >> Okay. So, if it is not a thing where we're we're we're legally managing the record, if we get that material after the deadline, do it at any point is the staff sort of dropping that letter in back into the file for our record for that item or they ever connected again? No, they're not connected. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. And I should clarify, I know that you've been dealing with this um with a very specific record and um management and like an annexation or other types of procedures. When you're in that procedure, we're going to give you specific direction. This is like your everyday sort of stuff that's happening. >> Councilor Ridley. >> I think what what I think that I hope we get to

58:50 and it could be whatever everybody decides, but I think where this has come up is when we're we're dealing with issues and people send in their stuff, they want to see that it's been received. And so, they want to and so, that's where we people have gotten cranky about it because they're like I've they've gone to look at the public record, they don't see their thing, they don't know that it's been there. So, then we all end up forwarding things around 80 times. So, I'm not sure what the solution is, whether it's a timing thing or whether we just have a portal. And that's I think that is how I'm remembering the problem that we're trying to solve for is just people wanting to make sure that they know that their their voice has been heard on a particular issue. >> Okay.

59:35 >> Does that sound like it's resonating for folks? >> Okay. >> Councilor whatever. >> So thank you for that Councilor Rodli. I think no matter what decision we make on timing we're going to face that that concern from the community unless we accept that right up to the moment we start a meeting and and it's part of the record which is impossible to do. So I don't have a problem moving it back if that makes getting the packet put together easier but I do appreciate the the comment about ensuring that the community knows we're receiving that feedback even though it's not in that packet. So I think if there's a way we can kind of guarantee that there's some communication to those folks that have submitted that comment that we have

1:00:21 received it would be a good >> So some kind of confirmation or some kind of listing of something so people know hey I didn't make it in the packet but still my whatever my letter about this got to people or got to the council. >> Uh Councilor Bucknell and Nancy. >> I think >> [sighs] >> um you know I definitely am am in agreement with what my colleagues here are saying and I I also think that if there is a mechanism for us to communicate to people in the appropriate way that hey you know the record did get closed at this time and and so not that your your feedback and your your input is is not valuable because because

1:01:06 we we value all of that but how that's treated and you know and and the direction we get. Obviously we've had direction on a specific issue but again this could come up with any issue and so how to communicate to folks we appreciate your feedback. This is included in the record and this is how it's reflected or this was outside of the the record scope. Um and so that's and it's going to be treated this way and I and I don't know how best to do that, but it'd be nice for people to to get some feedback is to yes you reached out and yes we appreciate that and we want to acknowledge that and this is how this this is how it falls.

1:01:52 Again, that might be way too broad of a thing to tackle, but putting it out there. >> Okay. All right, we can work on that. >> Nancy >> Um I would appreciate council's feedback tonight and thank you Mayor Bridget for bringing this up. What I'd like to do is have maybe some internal conversations with our office, um obviously with the clerk clerk recorder, city attorney and probably the executive team, too. Um we do have people that send we get um comments for council through various means. So, I want to make sure that um you know, we I could sit here tonight and say, "Oh, well, we can just simply you know, have like a auto response saying, "Okay, if you submit your comment by X day, you know, day and time, then it will be included in the

1:02:37 packet. If not, it will be forwarded to council." I mean, that seems like a you know, easy thing, but I want to make sure that we're I'm getting feedback from the organization. Make sure there's other areas that I'm not thinking of in this moment where people may be submitting comment and how that might need to be received in a different manner. So, give me a little bit to think about this and we'll get back to you. >> Councilor Quartus >> Being one of the newer councilors, I did have the experience after July 2nd that there were group emails going out especially during the fire governance and it was going to the former city councilor Beth Blackwell. And one of the things that I thought at that time was a reply or a response. This is confirmed to have been sent to the following emails would have caught that much

1:03:24 earlier. It took about 3 weeks for my empty inbox to realize that I had missed tremendous >> we could step Okay. >> Councilor >> So just to add to that one of the concerns that we that was shared with us previously this year I think it was was the the number of ways that people can submit public comment is is one of the things that was really brought to our attention and so if they're coming to us individually or they're coming to the group or they're coming to the city manager's office like we have all of these avenues for this this comment to be received. So whatever we come up with needs to include action if it's action on our part we need to know what that is and be consistent with it. So just adding that to the

1:04:11 conversation. >> Like for example if someone were to email an individual counselor's email, right? And then but address it to all of you or to like yeah, okay, I understand. Okay. >> This is all >> I know you didn't think this of these >> I know you said it was easy. But one of the things we can all do that will help this conversation with the public is like we all read our email. Is just responding to people then saying hey, I got it. I read it. That would that would be something that internally we can do as an elected body it would help us. The other thing if it would help this whole process, I would be open to essentially taking taking all the emails out of the public records records file

1:04:56 and even if it's a week later just simply putting it you know on the on the consent calendar or something and just saying that hey, these are all the emails that we got and just you know that we had received sort of officially. I don't know what logistics that would happen, but >> But would at least get us away from the the need from that we're managing that time limit because eventually we would we would just get caught up. It'd be like minutes. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. >> All right. >> Um and then the next just the to um tag on to that. So we've been talking about matters on the agenda. Also matters not on the agenda. People contact the council and the city all the time about issues that um are important to them but aren't necessarily on the agenda. And we always want to assure people that those do get to um the city council and to the

1:05:42 mayor. So it what it sounds like is we need to improve sort of our method of showing our receipts so to speak and showing our work. But I wanted to just be sure that we were clear that there's you know you can talk about stuff that's on the agenda but also stuff that's not on the agenda. And just looking at the bottom of that slide, you know, this is just directly from the constitution, the right to petition your government to for a redress of a grievance. It's like a bedrock, you know, idea that people should be able to come here and say I'm having this issue or this isn't working for me or whatever. So that will also be part of this process. >> Could we link that to the um new system the city manager's office is rolling out? That way we could, you know, that would give us an answer that says hey we got we got a phone call, we responded, we closed that issue. >> Yeah. Okay. All right, that's helpful.

1:06:27 >> Councilor Roddy. >> I think and I know this is something that we've wrestled with since I've been on council. And it feels like we're getting a little better and with turnover it makes it harder. Is like sometimes folks will be in a particular ward or have a particular issue and um so we often [clears throat] wrestle with like who's who's responding, who's dealing with this, how many times have I have everybody talked to Neil or whomever about it. And so I think having some way of tracking it would be super helpful um in terms of making sure that they don't hear from seven, you know, different people um and that we actually start moving to a solution cuz I think a lot of us try to is particularly with us in our ward we're like I'm on it, We're doing it. Um but it'd be helpful to show folks could follow that. We knew if you started if you created

1:07:13 this thing, we're all going to want to like we're all going to want to take it over. >> Okay, I think we're good on this one. Let's keep going. >> Okay, last um issue is uh moving on to public testimony. So, this is the testimony where people come in um either they're testifying as part of a public hearing on a particular topic, or they are coming in just from business from the audience to bring something to the city and the council's attention. Um you know, we have changed in recent years, right? That we now have hybrid meetings, so we also have the ability for um people to appear um electronically. People still come into chambers. And we thought since we were looking at the correspondence, it might just be a good idea to to look also at this topic.

1:08:00 Um you know, the general rule is that uh council can establish rules for how people uh come and provide testimony. They need to be content neutral or viewpoint neutral. So, what that means is you can't make a rule based on the topic of what or the content of what somebody's going to say or their point of view. Um but you can make rules. That's like your 3-minute rule, right? That you know, those kinds of rules where everybody gets to speak about whatever they want, but they only get a certain amount of time. Um the time, place, and manner restrictions need to be reasonable. And um the other thing that is important is to always let people know about alternative means. So, for example, let's say we came in here tonight and there were twice as many people who wanted to speak, and you needed to hold

1:08:46 to the 20 minutes, then it would be important for the presiding officer or for the city somehow to communicate, "Hey, I get you can't you may not fit into the testimony tonight, but you can always submit stuff in writing, or our next regular meeting is on this day, and you're welcome to come then." So, it's always important to let people know that there's there's always another way to get your point across or submit your testimony. Um the other thing I would say about looking at these kinds of um public testimony procedures is that it's it needs to be sort of a team sport, so to speak, in terms of how your rules are written um facially need to be constitutionally sound. Uh so, they they have to be written fairly, content neutral, they need to make sense on their face. They

1:09:31 also need to be um even-handedly applied. And so, that means that you're really relying on like staff and the presiding officer to all be sort of working together and consistently looking at how these rules are applied. So, you know, like some jurisdictions might have restrictions about if you were to provide um if you were to sign up for public testimony, they might have a cut-off time, right? Where you can only do that from like this time to this time, and if you don't make it within that time, then you're not um going to provide testimony that evening. So, it's important to stick to those rules, right? Even if you do think, "Oh, this is just so-and-so, and I know they want to talk about something nice or I don't know whatever it is." Like, that's where you start to if you start to make exceptions or get off

1:10:16 those rules, then that can be seen as not a consistent application, and then and when you're dealing with a more controversial topic, and you don't have those strong habits, that's when it could really bite you. And so, it's important that we be thinking about that in terms of if you do want to look at your rules, what you have now is pretty consistent with other jurisdictions, and it is um I would say like very um pro to the people who are coming to testify. You know, it's very simple in terms of like you often will go over if it's the 20 minutes. Everyone gets the 3 minutes, there aren't cut off times. You know, you're you're really like accommodating. So, from a legal

1:11:01 perspective, that is the safe that is the most protective way to not have a constitutional claim. Where it can be dicey or trickier is when you have a controversial issue or you have you know, maybe lots of people start coming and it and it interferes with your ability to get work done at the meeting. And I know that sounds like kind of I don't know, I'm silly, but you do work here. You know, you got to pass, you got to adopt ordinances. We have hearings, we you know, adopt budgets, you approve contracts. And that all is what makes the city work. And so, the public testimony needs to be consistent with that and work in conjunction with that and can't kind of take that work over. So, I'll get off my soapbox for a second here about that, but that's just the

1:11:46 idea about public testimony. But we could look at decorum rules, you could look at different things about, you know, sorting cards, um um having cutting off time for people to sign up, a little more structure is definitely something we can bring to you. >> one that I wrote down is we've done this kind of on and off this year. It's just getting the printed script consistently. >> Okay. >> The, you know, the intro script when we've done it is fit Sorry. This helped is helped quite a bit and just getting into a consistent rhythm of that, I think would help this. >> Okay. >> comes for oddly. >> Thank you. Um and thanks for bringing this. I think that um overall, I I've been content with how we do it. I appreciate that we try to get as many people in. Um I think I've been here

1:12:33 when we've maybe shortened it to two minutes when there were a lot of folks. Um I've told the mayor before I appreciate that he brings two people up. I think that helps. One of the things I am interested in and I am one voice is um for folks who are coming for the very first time. It can be a really intimidating thing to come, right? And to understand the process and there have been times when we've had really long sessions and people have left cuz they're like, I don't know if they're ever going to get to me. And so I know there have been some jurisdictions that have prioritized like first-time speakers. Um so for me it's not that I think that we should cut it off by a certain time cuz usually we after people speak, I think the mayor or whomever's per se or the council president usually is like, is there anybody else? We make sure to include people. But I think that

1:13:18 I'm interested if other folks are amenable to it to figuring out how do we make a little space for folks that that maybe their very first time. Um and there are people who come on the regular and perhaps they could be, you know, moved to the end and let the early folks get a little more time and build a little more, you know, confidence with it. So that's a that's a place that I'd be interested in exploring seeing how other folks are doing that. >> Okay, we can look at that. >> I will and I think maybe codifying, you know, the process around two two speakers that has worked very effectively for us over the last year. >> Okay. >> Uh Councilwoman >> So I do want to touch on the the comment about getting through council business. Um there have been several times over

1:14:03 the course of the past few months that we have had a lot of people in city hall talking about different topics and I value everybody's feedback, their concerns and I want to hear from everybody, but it does sometimes push us up to you know, like 9:30 when we still have to talk through something pretty, you know, meaty and and make a decision on it. So I do have some concern around finding a way to appreciate the the community's need to come and talk with us, but balance that with our need to make decisions in that in that evening's business agenda. >> Uh Councilman Booker

1:14:50 >> Um I definitely I can appreciate that, you know, we have we have a lot to accomplish and and at the same token, one of the things that I I found that's been helpful for organizing it, especially when we when we're up here and and we're receiving 20-plus cards, >> [clears throat] >> um one of the things that I've appreciated is um there is kind of a an attempt to the best of our ability to sort those in in in group topics. And so when we have a significant number of cards, if we can group them so that we're talking we're dealing with this topic, um and then and then move to the next. Um tonight was a a great example of that. We had several people that wanted to talk on a particular topic. Then we only had seven people talking and so that isn't that isn't

1:15:36 unmanageable, even if everybody wanted to talk on different topics. But being able to kind of put them together, so it's like, "Okay, we're talking about this now." And okay, we're going to move over to this topic. When we're jumping back and forth and kind of all over the place, it it it >> [clears throat] >> again, when you have 25 people and that's happening, um kind of tracking it and keeping track of all of that stuff, um is easier if it's like, "Okay, this was the conversation on this topic." And then we move it over to this topic. So I I've really appreciated um Mayor's efforts and staff's efforts to try and group those um just for organizational. And again, like I said, when we get a bunch of them, it's it's it's more important. >> I'll counsel Quadros.

1:16:22 >> So I'm very interested in making sure that we have the voices in the room and I appreciate what you're saying about sorting the topics, but one of the concerns that I would have is that if we have 20 cards and we have um five cards on each topic, that we can sort through the different topics. I don't want to hear all of the same thing in five cards if we don't get to the end and hear that last topic. Um and so if we could at least have consideration for getting the topics into the space and then if we have to sort FIFO, we're using a first-in-first-out right now. Um if we do have to sort in or out, one of the things that I would be keen on is that Springfield residents maybe are sorted

1:17:07 in first. Um if we are having to drop some off at the bottom. So those would be my two interests. >> Uh Councillor Buck. Um So and and maybe it's just just me, uh Councillor Quadros. Um I didn't quite under- I didn't quite catch what you were saying when you were talking about like grouping and getting to the last Um I Is it just a timing thing and and making sure that, you know, if if somebody's not heard, like if we can't get to all all of them, I wasn't really clear what you were saying there. Could you help me out? >> Absolutely. So if uh we're going to hear five cards on the same topic but not get to the last five cards on a different

1:17:52 topic, I want to be able to hear each topic if we can make that happen. >> So I think she's saying that sorting could cause some topics to not be heard depending on how they were um signed up when folks come in. >> Yeah, that that makes sense. It's, you know, sorting is fine but that not at the expense of any topics. Uh you might have just uh So >> [sighs] >> I guess I've got uh two sets and I'll come back to the to to the FIFO piece. One of them is maybe more language in discussion about when we switch to the online queue. >> Okay. >> Right? Because I think that's one thing

1:18:37 that we've that we've been challenged with kind of this year is we've set this up where we're taking everybody in the room cuz they've come down here, they're here, and then, you know, we have the online queue, but we could run into a spot where we're running up and against it on time, and we got to make sure we give people online an opportunity to to talk, and just clarify clarify clarifying that rule would would be helpful. Um I also think um uh just being a little maybe a little bit clearer on the on the sort of the cutoff time when you know, as far as when you get in the queue. We've run into this time a couple of times, so please, like you and Neil kind of talk through it. Uh where we've had we've kind of started and stopped a couple of times,

1:19:22 right? Where we've had one more person, you know, just raise their hand, and we don't really have a good management sort of structure on the online queue about how to keep our arms around it. And then, I think I think the let I think the sorting my preference would be not to sort as much as possible. I mean, we are living in a place where it is a low-trust environment. The more time we are massaging cards up here, the least perceived fair that it is. And I think if, you know, like, you know, I could get behind trying to group some topics together to make it, you know, so that somebody who's got a sidewalk issue isn't at the very end. Maybe some rules about that. But the more we more that we start moving

1:20:07 people around, right? Then it's then it's judgment, and it's not clear, and all the things. I would prefer to try to keep the order that we're getting them in as clean as possible. >> Okay. I can um uh I think maybe what would help is I could go back and try and find some options for how how to handle requests to speak. We call them cards, right? And, um, sorting, ordering, the time. The legal issue with sorting cards or with trying to address, you know, who's speaking, is you want to be careful that you're still being viewpoint neutral and content neutral, right? And so, I I'm thinking about those types of rules about if we, um, you know, prioritize certain

1:20:52 speakers over others or, um, certain topics. I I want to be, um, provide you with there that I don't think are legally problematic. So, I can I think we can work on that some more and come back. Also might be some more like sort of framework about how you handle card, you know, it could be like how the presiding officer handles cards. Could be like, "We have four cards tonight. They're on these three topics. This is the way I'm going to do it." And sort of explaining to people, sorry, so they so they kind of know what's coming and they know that they have that opportunity to be heard. So, I'm going to think about that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And then, I think, uh, one of the scenarios we we sort of have to solve that I would love to solve for is to get clearer about, "Hey, you know, can we get the person

1:21:37 that's got the one issue kind of out of the middle of the pack if we've got big issues so we can keep the big pack together and get that one person that the time and attention that they need?" >> Yeah. Okay. Um, last issue on this topic and then I'm done is this a concept of decorum. Um, you know, one thing I think that really assists in over the time that I've been able to observe Springfield residents come in and speak to the council is, um, for the most part everyone is really respectful and, um, and it's always really, uh, like you said, you know, can be intimidating. Not everyone comes here all the time to do it. And I I have a lot of respect for that. I think part of what really helps that is how the council talks to one another and it sort of sets this example of how we, um, address one another and

1:22:22 how people talk to staff that it really helps kind of elevate and sort of sets the expectation for what conversation is. So, I think that's one thing that's really helpful. Um our rules don't specifically I mean they address um some concepts of I wouldn't say decorum, but like sort of you know, outrageous behavior. You know, you still have to have a warning um and then if they continue to um engage in that behavior, they can be uh removed from the um chambers. The thing with this kind of removal though is it's like it counts for this meeting. Do you know what I mean? So, like if you re- if let's say you had someone who you removed, then you couldn't say, "And now you can't come testify to any council meetings for 6 months." Like that's off the table. So, they can still it's kind

1:23:07 of like they get an opportunity to start over. Um so, that's something to keep in mind. And if decorum is an issue, you know, personal attacks or kinds of um obscene language, you we would need to tie it to disrupting the meeting. So, it's not just like that we don't like it or or it's not um how we should speak. It has to actually disrupt what the business that you're trying to do here. So, you know, you we could look at putting something quite small in your rules about how you know, council will consider decorum or um you know, personal attacks or something in terms of um of being a basis for removal, but I just want to be clear that you know, people

1:23:52 can be critical and um and it's not easy to hear and I know that and I you know, you deal with a lot more than I do, but there's a line between criticism I think and and just really inappropriate behavior. So, that's another thing that you could look at as well um in terms of what would be appropriate. Or if you think you're good the way it is, it's like not it doesn't come up enough to make it something that you want to do, but you really got to be careful with enforcing that kind of um behavior cuz the courts will say, "Hey, people are worked up about this, and that's okay." And so, um this isn't one where you have as much flexibility. >> Okay. Anybody want to jump in here? Councilor Weber.

1:24:39 >> Again, uh just looking back at the past year, we've had some um some issues that people are are very concerned about, and rightfully so, and you know, some of those conversations have brought out really high emotion, and that's when we're most likely to be more um say things we we probably would have said differently if we'd not been in that space. Um so, I I think about this in the way of we all treat each other with respect, and that is I agree a key key role of setting an example. Um so, I think about this in putting this in small print, but can we also we have um city council goals back there that we can see from here every time we're up here having conversations.

1:25:25 Could we do something like that that just says in this chambers, you know, this is how we treat each other, and and just kind of try to encourage um folks to kind of follow that those guidelines? >> Sure, we can look at that, and the website, too. Might be another place. Okay. >> Uh Councilor Watley. >> Thank you. Um I You know, I'm thinking about this, and and I think that people should um I mean, I can't really think of a time that I've been like, "Oh, people shouldn't be able to say and do what they want to do, you know, when they come here." Um but I do when you said and I also I I don't know that I would feel great if we had somebody removed because, you know, because I think

1:26:10 there's there's a lot of um leeway in terms of like what what does it take to be removed? >> Yes. I think that um what feels we we have paused meeting. I'm trying to think. I mean, I feel like maybe have you paused a meeting since I've been on this? But I I could see if we we stopped a meeting, we regrouped, we left seems like a much better solution than having somebody removed from the public space. If it got to a place where it was unsafe or something was happening. Um but it it's been like I it hasn't it isn't something that's risen to something that I feel super concerned about cuz I feel like but do come and they do care very loudly and share their opinions and we get I get emails from people that call me all kinds of names and all of that happens on all the time. Um and that to

1:26:55 me is people are exercising their first amendment right. So, I'm for as few limits as possible. And also, I think we do set an example and say this is how in Springfield how we want to talk and deal with each other. But to the point of like having somebody it would take a lot like somebody would have to I would feel, you know, like it would have to be something big that I would want somebody removed. I think we could should as a community. >> It is um a pretty high bar. They do have to be warned and then do the same activity. And we also have other procedures here. Um you know, we have a representative from the police department here. We've all um trained on um you know, pausing a meeting, leaving, stopping the meeting as things to do before you start to get to that issue where you're trying to remove someone from a public meeting. So.

1:27:40 >> Anyway, Councillor Buck. Yeah, and I and I think um you know, I think your point about um people when they come here um feeling like it that it's okay to express their opinions even if even if that's critical of of decisions we're do we've made, um processes we're going through. Um that's important. I mean, we need to hear the good and the bad. And and that's that's why we put our name on the ballot. That's why we said we would serve in this role. And so, >> [clears throat] >> I don't think anything should be discouraging of people sharing their opinion, being critical, and and those kind of things.

1:28:25 Um and then I also feel like I really appreciate your point about you know, it's also setting the tone, you know, what what happens on our end also matters. I mean, you know, how how we work with each other, how we interact with staff, how we interact with the community, um from from this perspective as well as others. I think all of that's really, really important, and I think um not losing sight of this isn't just how the public interacts with us, but also how we interact with the public is is really really key point there. >> Okay. >> All right. Anybody else? Um I think that I think I would rather spend our energy on good, you know, online guides to how do you testify

1:29:12 successfully? >> Okay. >> We've seen enough people that are aren't sure what to expect, you know, or, you know, it's a little bit intimidating, right? Everybody's looking at you. Like, anything we can do early on to reduce the barrier and the stress that people feel like to get in and talk to us about their issues is going to be is going to be helpful. And I think that that time would help is going to help with the other thing, right? Because if we make it easy for folks to get in front of us and share their views, it's going to naturally just lower the temperature for whatever's happening in the community or people's lives or, you know, in the country at the time. >> Okay. All right. Well, thank you. Um that's what I have. So, I'll bring back reimbursements

1:29:57 uh to you uh in uh sort of your next um term. And then we'll look at some of these um proposed changes for public testimony and correspondence. Some of that will be rule change, some of that will just be procedures, and we can talk to you about that offline. Um and then the rules that are posted on the website will just stay cuz we haven't changed them yet. And then when we change them, we will. >> Okay. >> So, all right. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Do we have any other business? Any other business from the city attorney? >> No, no business. Thank you. >> All right. We are adjourned. Thank you, everybody. Have a good night.