EWEB Board of Commissioners — December 3, 2024

0:03 I'm going to call to order the December 3rd 2024 meeting of Eugene Water and Electric Board and we'll start with an agenda check any items to be changed or nope um just want to call out that one of our board members John Brown is joining us by remotely and so when I'm looking in the back that's what I'm looking for is uh just checking in with him items from board members general manager items from board members yeah so appreciated the uh Kieran substation ribbon cutting um all did a great job and exciting that that is up and running I wanted to also acknowledge the

0:49 Eugene chamber economic Summit of us went to that too it's a good event great place to connect with people and then want to do a quick update on on um elog so elog has an annual dinner in March um on the 7th and um the nominations for people who are electeds or staff um that are doing great work are open so please check that out if there's somebody you have in mind like I said it's on um the dinner is on March 7th it's at The Cottage Grove Armory um elog is also has a a campaign where they're doing donations for senior Meals on Wheels and then uh the other elog

1:37 related um item that I just wanted to put out there is that I'm currently have been serving as the chair and it's a two-year term so when we do the voting in January I'd love to continue that if you vote me out that's fine but somebody else is gonna have to be chaired so very um and then uh also wanted to note that the celebration of business is at the end of January and that is um I think the registration is open for that finally I just wanted to say how exciting it is that the run to stay warm actually sold out for the first time how amazing is that so thanks to everybody who came out for that thanks great thanks rovski thank you um I also attended a couple of things that Sonia

2:24 mentioned the economic Summit and the ribbon cutting matt did a great job with the scissors didn't run with them or anything like that um I also had an opportunity to go up to College Hill and watch one of the blasts um and it was interesting and unspectacular but it the staff was up there there were there were a handful of neighbors that were standing around and checking it out and uh I think things are going well up there it's quite a quite an operation so I'm not sure how many more days of blasting they have but they've been doing it at 3:30 in the afternoon so go up and feel the ground shake a little bit great thanks anything from you

3:13 brown yeah when I just typed chat there I can't find the option to raise my hand so just if you don't mind asking me at the end of all that I know that it's an easy way to silence me but anyhow um I I attended the oped meeting think I I recall sending an email out just in case this technology didn't work but bottom line is that the the fund it's about $17 million fund that manages post employe uh the retirees uh medical benefits is doing really well and our cash obligation this year will be much less than it was last year and so Bing anything happening things are good that's all I have all right thanks

4:00 thank you uh I'll just uh say the it was fun to see the Curran substation open uh I've never wielded such a large pair of scissors which was really monumentous uh event in my life and um and thank you for the opportunity and for trusting me with such large scissors um and there might be some other acknowledgement coming L later but I want to take the opportunity to thank you sir for your service here at e web and um I know I'm going to be bummed to see depart I'm sure there are others in that camp but thanks for your service really appreciate it thank you appreciate the kind words yeah Frank oh I'm sorry we we'll get to that we'll get to both of them in a

4:50 minute not very long from now um good evening Commissioners uh appreciate being here I appreciate uh your participation in a number of different events over the last month um I wanted to acknowledge the fact that a very large number of eweb people um started work on Wednesday evening uh before the Thanksgiving day break and worked pretty much continuously uh to transition our customer system our finance system our customer portal our uh GIS system which manages our remote assets um and uh prepared for a go live um uh with the new systems uh effective

5:36 uh yesterday morning and I wanted to appreciate their dedication it was a worldwide effort actually we had people in in India uh and other places supporting us uh pretty much around the clock to transition these systems that were originally put in the last Millennia back in the 1900s um and so I wanted to acknowledge the people people that spent a tremendous amount of their their holiday weekend doing that and also appreciate um Travis and um Julie and Deborah for their leadership on this project that we've been preparing for for about two years now and so this is the first season we'll we'll now go into continuous Improvement mode and um but

6:23 we were able to support customers manageable Q times a lot of people have transition to our new system already so really want to acknowledge their work so thank you to everybody who's been working on that that's it all right um then moving on to not moving on yet all right no not quite um yes previously referenced Giants pair of scissors so uh commissioner McCrae I I'll I'll pass it over to the vice president here in just a second we we have something for you but I just on behalf of of Staff

7:10 wanted to thank you for your leadership and your Devotion to the pos position and for helping us navigate through some challenging issues uh during your your term here uh we're going to miss you appreciate all the all the things and all the guidance and all the words of wisdom and all the actions that you've taken and so on behalf of Staff wanted to thank you thank you thanks um we've got a little something here for you but before I bring it over and give it to you I just want to say thanks to you again we came on together uh we kind of drank out of the same fire hose for the first couple of years uh I appreciate the insights that you that you bring and I just want you to know that some of the key issues that you are hoping we're hoping to move

7:58 this board through and this utility through I will help Champion those on after you're gone because I think we we align pretty closely on a lot of those issues so just know that what you brought to the table is still on the table and we'll be move hopefully we'll be moving forward as as we go on so with that thank you but D I think you can open it that's what I was afraid of I'm pretty sure that this going to be very embarrassing whatever box well it's after 3:30 so the explosions are over oh

8:50 good it is a quack yeah thanks all very kind with uh the coin at top thank you it's really nice and uh yeah I'll see a few words later today at the end John I can't see his hand so I'm just just just guessing no nothing from him yes please Mindy I just want to say what a pleasure it's been serving on this board with you Matt you are truly somebody who lives by your values and I um respect that and I'm honored to have served beside you and um we're going to miss you but thank you for your invaluable contribution

9:37 you've help make this board better thanks Mindy I appreciate that thank sure miss you too thank you so much for everything You' done it's been nice sitting next to you and I'm gonna get T so I'll I'll stop we'll see you again don't be a stranger if there are things that you care about don't hesitate to reach out um so very much value your opinion thank you thank you Son thank you yeah thank you and you you will have the opportunity once a month to come back and take up to three minutes if you'd like to Prov testimony in the future so perfect we had one more and so I did

10:23 want to give Commissioners the opportunity to uh this is Rod Price's uh last board meeting um for how long I'm not so I'm not sure but um wanted to uh thank rod for his service to eweb our community started in 1999 is that is that Rod right rod with uh with eweb and um has done a number of different things for the utility throughout the years and been a really great thought partner and one of those people that it's not just what he did but how he did it that mattered and so he set a really great example so thank you Rod I have one of these three

11:12 too for one it is thank you appreciate the kind words just so fortunate to be able to work here in a place like this with all these people and really appreciate the Fai you you put in me so just I couldn't ask for anything a giant scissors yeah where are those giant scissors it's been not thank you sa you

11:58 first right again thank you very much uh we're twins feels good but no I really appreciate it thank you thank you kindly uh all right and on to our next topic yeah oh sorry yes no excuse me I I they gave me a a sequence to raise my hand I raised my hand and then it just got blown by I don't know if you can see it or not but just their future is my hand showing being raised on the screen it is now yes and sorry I missed that okay all right no that that's cool because I was going to comment on you uh you know I wasn't going to let that pass and but I'm not going to cry I I do go back to map 30

12:56 years seriousness um thank you for your stepping up and doing I know it's a big sacrifice of and everything and I really appreciate else what you've done and uh same thing with you Rod I think I sent you an email earlier but um you're going to be missed and I really appreciate you uh bringing things down to my level um because I know that's not easy to do but uh you did it you're very responsive and in your very Tim and response all that which greatly appreciate so both of you guys are going to be uh missed but um I'm sure that you're going to have fun doing whatever you're going to do so thank you very much much thank you John thank you John right with that then I'm gonna move on to our next item which is public

13:41 input we have um three people signed up we have any more four they're all in person all right so we have four people signed up to provide testimony um all four are here in person so there's nobody calling in which makes it a little bit easier um I'm going to very quickly um hit on the safety and awareness briefing that I neglected to do earlier and then um speak to public input um so just want to thank folks for being here tonight and remind you that EB management and sub subject matter experts are present in the room and virtually the meeting is being live streamed and recorded public testimony is welcome signup forms are at the back of the room if you are here to sign um to provide testimony and you haven't

14:26 signed up yet please do so before we get started here visitor access is limited to the boardroom and the restrooms the restrooms are located on this floor exit through the interior door at the back of the room and a security officer will direct you to the location in the event of an emergency please follow instructions by staff and then going to um just guidance on public input you can see some of it's up here on the um on the screen in front of you just to help provide guidance if this is your first time uh EIP is a public not for-profit organization who Charter is to deliver drinking water and electricity to our community although this forum is not used for an open back and forth dialogue Commissioners and staff very much value hearing diverse perspectives and receiving Community input speakers are

15:12 asked to keep their testimony relevant to eweb business and request that everyone share their comments in a productive and respectful manner should speakers or audience members become disruptive they may be muted and or removed from the meeting at this time we have four folks here in person when you're called you have up to minutes to provide your comments there's a timer at the front of the room here to help you keep track um and the public input session is now open and we're gonna start with Danny Nunan and after that will be Sheree bourman good evening you can hear me okay I can hear myself okay through the

15:57 microphone thank you uh president McCrae and eweb Commissioners I appreciate the opportunity to comment my name is Danny Nunan I'm a climate energy strategist with the local nonprofit organization breach Collective and I am a resident of Ward 7 in the Whitaker uh yesterday evening I received correspondence from general manager Lawson regarding the letter that was sent to eweb Commissioners by Coalition of 18 organizations in July of this year uh given the timing of this correspondence and the draft rate design plan discussion that's on this evening's agenda I decided to attend this evening's meeting in order to offer an initial uh personal response uh to that letter um while it has been encouraging

16:44 to see e web Commissioners and staff engage with our coalition's recommendations and advocacy over the last six or so months I was disappointed by how some of our recommendations have been framed in subsequent discussions and are now seemingly at risk of being precluded from further exploration in the rate design process specifically general manager Lawson wrote that EB's draft rate design plan quote reflects the Board of Commissioners preference for structuring rates around a dual philosophy of cost and behavior-based principles rather than basing rates on socially driven goals or outcomes end quote this would appear to contradict commissioner Lawson's own comments during the October 2nd meeting that these three philosophies while intention with the each other and creating a tri

17:30 LMA are not mutually exclusive in raid Design This framing also looks past the fact that socially driven goals like low-income assistance are already an accepted and uncontroversial feature of ewe's rate design yet this framing serves to constrain further discussion around how best to design and provide low-income assistance this is particularly disappointing to see it a time when investor own Utilities in Oregon are responding to community advocacy at the Pu by expanding and improving their low income assistance programs it also feels somewhat misleading for commissioner Lawson to lump together both our proposal for a percentage of income payment program as a potential alternative to EB's existing low-income assist assistance and income

18:15 graduated fixed charges as a potential component of rate design as amounting to a general proposal for quote income based rates that is simply to say that eweb could include these mechanisms within a rate design that still predominantly aderes to cost and behavior-based principles additionally eweb staff and Commissioners heavy focus on incentivizing customer Behavior through rates continues to overlook one of the core characteristics of our community namely that Eugene has both a very high proportion of renters and a very low vacancy rate this gives the average renter very little agency over the Energy Efficiency and weatherization of their dwelling and the ability to which they can change their behavior through incentives I'm out of time that's been my personal experience as a rental thank you very much thank you Mr Nunan next Is

19:02 Sheree bourman followed by Tana sheeper hi my name is Sherry Warman and I just want to be able to introduce myself in regards to the educational grants I'm the new coordinator from beel school district for the educational grants that e web helps to support some of the learning for many of our students we're just so appreciative of these because it brings real life lessons into the classroom for students students as well as getting students on field trips out into the real world real world um just to learn so much more about the energy renewable nonrenewable energy and water and things that just really relate to their whole lives so just wanted to say thank you and introduce myself thank you thank you and next is town of Shephard

19:49 followed by Mark renway all right good evening Commissioners and um thanks Matt and Rod for your service it's been pleasure being in so many meetings with you um I'm Tiana Shepard otherwise known as eoi welcome to me to this place today um I'm here to talk about a couple things but primarily um just to fill you in on what's happening right now and then kind of looking into the future uh we just finished our last salmon education field trip today and we have our release trips next week at Alton B y'all are invited we're there Monday through Friday and 9 to one we'll be there every day so feel free to drop by

20:34 it's a public park and so we don't have to have special permissions for this and we'd love to see you there with the kids um also this Friday the climate Justice team is um working on their annual clothing Swap and it's for high schoolers with a a focus on Fast fashion and um you know resource wastefulness through that process and so that's something that they've been doing every year and that's happening this week too and then I mentioned in the release trips already and then after the new year we'll be gearing up for the electric vehicle challenge it's a long process to get that going and then wind energy energy starts up as well and other energy projects and water projects in the in the classrooms um and then I wanted to just look forward um I understand that y'all received a memo

21:19 lately about the grants and the extension of Grants coming up and there's a proposal of a phase one phase two process which I'm heavily in support of especially after the pause with the covid um it was a challenge to meet all the grant goals within the five years so having an extra two to kind of catch up and Shore up anything and then look to the Future for the next five is really beneficial especially having new coordinators in McKenzie and bethl can kind of help catch everybody up and we can get on the same page that feels pretty exciting Dara um Brennan also from Springfield is supportive as well and she can't be here today um so essentially it's a great idea oh that's not my time up okay um I was like oh right um and essentially it'll just allow us to collaborate more bring the

22:04 new people on board and and get our um our ducks in a row and our squirrels out of the cage and the phase two will help us hone in on a more localized approach to our education program and have some similar lessons across our districts that um we can complement our um curriculum we acknowledge our curriculums are very different in each of the districts so having complimentary lessons rather than a full curriculum would be more Welcome to our teachers and so we look forward to creating those things together as a team it's been lovely working with Claire and so we appreciate um her support and yeah that's kind of just where I'm at I'm not even going to take my three minutes but I'm excited to just kind of be moving pass salmon into our education piece and um yeah salmon was very successful this

22:49 year so John I hope you heard that all right thanks everybody thank you Tana next is Mark renois followed by Alan G okay for outgoing commissioner Matt McCrae thanks again for helping bring Richard heinberg of postc carbon Institute to Eugene I wish however that our institutions had been able to hear anything that he says about limits to growth on a finite planet and why this requires us to rewrite plans change laws the structures of how our communities function and radically increase the

23:35 amount of cooperation in the around 2008 we had a stay of execution around concerns that Peak energy would constrict our society with the startup of hydraulic fracking as a means to scrape the bottom of the barrel the oil barrel for extraction and Texas and the Rockies and Appalachians Oregon's tiny natural gas field near atoria has been depleted and it's not the right geology for fracking nor is prudo Bay in Alaska uh prudo Bay has declined more than 34s since its peak in 1988 which is of concern to anyone who relies on

24:20 trucks bringing food to grocery stores these and other warnings about the poly crisis limits to growth climate chaos over consumption over population or not happy messages about our techno utopian future to paraphrase Albert Einstein passing the limits to growth has changed everything save our mode of thinking thus we drift toward catastrophe he was talking about the splitting of the atom but it applies beyond that the adoption of large scale burning of unnatural gas as the backbone of the electric grid has been due to the rise of fracking now fracking is the largest energy source for the western eastern

25:05 and Texas grids which eweb never mentions in its public literature to the public how about mentioning Western Electric coordinating Council which eweb is part of for broader understanding of where we are at there is a debate in the geology Community about how long fracking will last but even if it lasts another decade or two it's a temporary blip on human history and regardless of which geologist is right it's just another boom and bust in 2000 David Brower one of the greatest environmentalists gave his farewell speech to the environmental law conference at U ofo he said that at our

25:52 best we've slowed down the rate that things get worse and this was not good enough for our survival now thanks to Baby Steps Collective denial and a profound lack of Courage we will all face the consequences so think about future generations of all species thank you thank you and next is Alan gorano followed by Joe Maul hello again and thank you for honoring the fact that I wrote here on a bicycle through the freezing cold to get here and walked in later than I thought I would thank you for having me um so a few things I want to talk about I've been here many times you know me I've seen some of you outside of here in public places and it's been wonderful to

26:38 have a human interaction with some of you um these meetings seem to be set up it it becomes very impersonal and you know a lot of times I talk about the cost of just looking at efficiency versus the cost of human health and and how it affects humans on a daily basis and right now we're faced with an incoming government that is going to create a department that I'm going to call doggy do um Department of government efficiency which is going to be focused on efficiency efficiency efficiency and being someone who just joined that quote privileged rank of seniors on a fixed income um I look at that might just be

27:23 disappearing very soon because of that focus on efficiency efficiency efficiency without look looking at the human costs the human values so those of you who do look at those things thank you um one area that's you know because obviously I've been involved with the fight against getting the smart meters put on our house against our will and a lot of people feel like we're being punished you know over that with certain rate increases or people having to have the broadcasting turned on when they don't want it turned on fortunately didn't have to have it turned on because I gave in but um you know one place to help low income people such as me such

28:09 as some of the other people in our group is you know for those of us who don't want the broadcasting turned on instead of charging us extra for the meter readers coming out which we've already been paying for all along don't add that onto our bill that's one way to make it easier for some of us low-income people and definitely look it some way let's let's get on it get these raids down for those of us who are struggling because we really really would like to keep our electricity going and I'm sure you don't want to see us out in the cold even though you make me right here on a bicycle in the cold but thank you very much and again thank you to the ones of you who I've seen out in public I'm not going to name any names thank you thanks Ellen and thanks for writing all the way out here in the

28:54 cold and last is Joe Maul thanks chair McCrae for the record Joe Maul representing McKenzie river trust I come today simply to say thank you in part for your leadership as I understand this is your last meeting anybody else's last meeting just you um 20 years ago this week I accepted the job as executive director of the MacKenzie River trust and uh I've said it before but it's worth repeating that there's no way that either the Kenzie River trust the Watershed councils in this area The Soil and Water Conservation District and a number of other organizations that work on behalf of the rivers not just the Mackenzie but the community would be nowhere near where we are uh without the leverage that Investments by the Eugene Water and Electric Board made before 20

29:41 years ago but certainly since that time so I just want to thank you again for that um we'll continue to come back as we develop more partnership work for the coast fork and middle Forks uh with the that coinciding with the new water plant I think um the opportunities to invest again uh looking Upstream will be strong there but I also wanted to present you and perhaps presenting this with the chair with a copy of something called life on the river this was something that Barry Lopez wrote um on our behalf uh after the acquisition of the finrock reach area back in 2016 and 2017 this is something that was hand printed by lose press um it was a press that came out of the University of Oregon years ago and this is one of I think six copies that um Barry signed directly to the Eugene

30:27 Water and Electric Board and uh it has sat in a box postco and post move and I realized we still had it so thought it would be appropriate to do that so I don't know if it's appropriate to approach the board to present this but it's simply to say thank you and we'll continue to to uh work together on these things thanks Joe all right thank you um moving on to the next item on our agenda um which is correspondence oh I'm sorry I'll take a moment if any of the board members would

31:12 like to um provide comments related to the testimony tonight yeah um thank you to all of you for coming out on this cold evening um I on the the rate design um topic I just just wanted to note that I think we're now now that the uh it system has been launched that's been a major product and kind of an impediment but it's it's something that was started years and years and years ago and in order to do full rate design overview and look we needed to have that project complete so that was a major step in the process and I know we're voting on rates this evening and the budget for the next year but when I think of rate design I think of a much longer longer term process and

31:59 so um I don't I just want to make sure that it's understood that's a a longer term Outlook um in terms of our design and the process we're going to be taking so it's not just nope it's happening tonight um and then uh very excited to hear about the the new educator for bethl and um thank you uh Sher for coming out and tana for coming out I always love hearing about what we're doing in the schools and I appreciate your Insight on that uh on that document because I I wasn't sure where you're at so I'm glad that that um is something that's actually beneficial to the program because I think that's a a key thing that we do and it's something unique to us being a public utility and I want to continue to support that so

32:44 I'm very happy that that is a positive for you um and then thank you to the others for coming out and sharing your opinions and to Jamal and okay great thanks yeah Mindy just really briefly I think this was our most varied public input that we've had in a really long time um and uh I know that we often don't we don't engage in a back and forth but I just want to say that we really value you coming and talking to us and I understand to frustration of people where you feel like you're just talking at us and you don't get anything back and that feels pretty icky but we do really listen to you and we value what you have to say so thank you all for coming out thanks

33:30 Mindy Brown anything from you no I'm good thank you all right I would just Echo M's comments that we don't take the time to for a back and forth here but really do appreciate the comments and Y all taking the time to to be here and let us know what's on your minds all right uh moving on to correspondence thank you president McCrae um before I get into that I I will also just just say that um staff very much can ERS public input when we bring things to Commissioners and and this was one of the more diverse set of topics that we heard about this evening and appreciated them um and also we'll we'll take that and and run with those comments and we listen to those comments and um some of these are longer term

34:15 issues some of them are complex issues and we'll have a number of opportunities and a number of touch points on on many of these topics so look look forward to lots more interaction going forward um on on the correspondence front Commissioners there were four items of Correspondence this evening um there were uh really three informational items um having to do in in many cases with year-end events uh you also notice that um the the education grant um update was included with that we've got some some work coming up there um and some feedback that we've received from Commissioners in particular around messaging and education of safety and emergency preparedness um which we we

35:02 want to reemphasize going forward and so um some and again some year-end issues the the one that we're asking for some guidance on and that doesn't necessarily have to be this evening it could be uh during our our check-ins had to do with some of the the themes and areas of opportunities that we see going into 2025 um we recognize that as an organization there is uh some trade-off between uh focus and number of things that you want to do and so um any opportunities that you can or comments that you want to make regarding what might be a priority for you as individuals prior to the group

35:47 discussion in January around the 2025 organizational goals would be helpful um like I said that could be either this evening or um uh personally when we have our one-on-one check-ins um either of those would be fine so president mcra I'll just turn it back to you and see if there's any comments or questions coming out of these items great thanks comments questions Browski thank you um yeah I went over all of them and they I'm fine with them the one thing in the organizational goals and and I'm sure you've you've got it but I think it's something that kind of has risen to the top of my thoughts with with assistant GM Bry

36:34 leaving is the the the transition that we have of leadership in the organization and you know I I've had this happening in in my business as well you know you you lose key members do we you know what is the strategy that we have going forward we all know our Workforce is aging and a lot of institutional knowledge will be we'll be leaving this organization and many organizations over the next several years and I think that that would be something that would be I would like to know that we're we've got a plan for it and and we're looking at that and so that was something that would be important to me to see moving forward because we have a a example right across

37:22 the table from us that there's a a big big hole that when somebody at that position leaves that I know that the organization will be able to fill but knowing that there's a strategic way of going about that would be helpful for me that those one of the things that I would like to see great thanks Mindy um in terms of the education grants I'm very pleased to see that we have safety and emergency preparedness um I think that partnering with the schools is a great way for kids to maybe help um get their parents more invested and um it's a it's like a direct way to convey information so I'm really happy to see

38:14 that on on the education contract just a little bit more I'm excited to see that I also hope that that doesn't mean that we are losing the other you know engaging programs that I think really draw kids in around the E cars when things that are really tactile so in the way that we you know however that is thought out that it's still tactile engaging something that brings the kids in than thank you great thanks anything from you John I'm I'm good thank you I'm I apologize I'm for having some audio I I every once in a while don't get the hear everything that's being said but I'm doing my best to

39:00 follow all right thanks all right um moving on to the next item then which would be approval of consent calendar a to approve move to approve by Carlson and second by schlosberg and question from barosi poll number two all right so barosi is in a PLL number two right Ro Carlson to approve consent calendar a minus number two seconded by schlosberg all in support of at motion say I

39:45 I all right is unanimously number two Mr barowski yeah I just wanted to kind of pull this just to shine a little a little light on it maybe let let staff talk a little bit we got a little bit of a background around it but this is a an $18 million over 10year contract for the decommissioning of leeberg so to me this is a you know we've we've made some great steps going forward with the decommissioning action plan um but to me now this is starting to get real you know when you start when you start budgeting $18 million um we're starting to get real so I kind of got a a good feel of what this is entailing it's bringing on

40:31 Consultants that are experts in the field to help us with this I'm just wondering if staff wanted to just give a little bit of an update on this contract for me before we approve it thank you thank you commissioner barowski you actually jumped ahead in the agenda to item seven um so uh president McCrae will be able to skip that item I um recognized and and management hold this for discussion um given the exact reasons that um commissioner barovsky had mentioned um I I just would like uh Lisa K to provide a little bit of an introduction to what this topic entails um it is a multi-year a multitask based task order based uh

41:17 contract and so um I'll just U pass pass the mic to her thank you Frank um good evening Commissioners yeah we wanted to pull this one because it is such a sizable contract for such a complicated um project so uh we are bringing the contract for you for approval tonight the specific um scope is around program management and owner's representation throughout the lever decommissioning process which is why it's a longer contract than usual at 10 years rather than five because we want to make sure that we're able to maintain consistency uh throughout this um comprehensive U process towards deom commissioning uh we did uh go through a public RFP process a very comprehensive

42:03 one and I personally am incredibly excited um to put forth McMillan for this work uh McMillan is a very well suited uh firm for uh for this process have extension extensive decommissioning Pro um experience Nationwide including um recently a primary role in the decommissioning of the cloth um damps uh to great suc ESS um they have uh they're highly regarded throughout the industry they have absolutely Stellar recommendations from those who have worked with them uh it is again a sizable contract and a long contract um but I I couldn't be more pleased with the result um Mark and Jeremy and Quinton and I are all here to answer specific questions you might have about

42:49 the scope of services uh but that was the General um sort of intro I wanted to lay out for this contract great Thank You Are there specific questions and then actually can I go to Brown real quick Mr Brown commissioner Brown you have a your hand up go ahead yeah I do thank you just a couple questions number one a comment that um in my long tenure on this board I've never seen as much as $30 million of contracts on the consent calendar so that kind of raised a little flag for me but I guess it's we're getting into that but uh just just a thought that that that's Monumental um Lisa a question about this are they just going to manage other people or they going to do some of

43:34 the were um let's talk let's just talk about uh rideway or Eis environmental impact statements um I mean they are going to actually do that work or are they going to just oversee the work so we could expect additional contracts on top of this with other service providers yeah very good question uh commissioner Brown I'll take a stab at it and then I'll see if Jeremy and Mark want to way in so the way that we've um focused this contract is with a lot of flexibility so they are to provide overall program management and owners representation but the team that McMillan has put together includes their team they have extensive geotechnical engineering and um uh and construction management experience they have also put together subc Consultants

44:19 who are um very experienced in the environmental fields and also in the legal process for furk so the way the the scope of services was written is that we have the ability to write task orders for specific uh projects if their team is seems well suited to perform that work they will be providing the overall program management helping us throughout the process but there might be some specific engineering design or other types of projects that they are suited for and if so we would um approve it or ask to approve a task order for that Mark Jeremy do you want to add to that I want to say I think you you did uh you know summarize that quite well and we do

45:04 expect in some other subject matter areas that they will help us with some design development preparing permanent applications thing like that so there there will be uh some actual work out of them you know in addition to strategic and program support yeah and then I would just add one more thing um it seems unlikely to me that we would get um through this really complex you know $80 million Project without the need for some additional consultant support along the way that we have yet to identify and will come um once we have uh you know further developed the plans thank you very much appreciate it Mark did you have some with respect to that they certainly will be our

45:49 partners in managing those additional Consultants that we might bring on for subject matter expertise that uh that uh we need in addition to what MC Mill's capable of doing but they are very Broad in their and and deep in their great thanks rski go ahead Brown if you have Fallout questions no that that's just answer my questions I just wanted to know kind of kind of wanted to know just what they were going to do and that gave me a really good idea of of what the future boards can expect great great thanks thank you um so that opens another question then so if if they

46:35 have some another we need another thing and they're able to do it would that mean that it would go out for another RFP or would they automatically get that bid um I I might lean on Jeremy and Quinton for this but my understanding is we have flexibility in the contract the way the scope of services was written uh Jeremy do you want to that's correct so if they're Well Suited and the and you know we feel the best subject matter expert for a specific task we do have the flexibility within this contract to a task directly for okay and then my my next question is again and it it may not be directly relevant to this specific contract but I when I voted to give us

47:21 give the direction to move forward with the way that we're going with the decommissioning it was with kind of a caveat that we would always we would have check-ins at at points where there may be an opportunity to return the river the The Creeks to run of the river Johnson Creek C calwell Creek this wouldn't procr prude us from doing that at this point correct and that will still be uh looked at with through this contract possibly yeah that's correct so um and and just as an overarching statement we won't be making major decisions around um you know the end state of decommissioning without um sharing updates with the board so we plan to have frequent updates to the

48:06 board and and in addition to continue to report out um quarterly in the in the quarterly report no nothing in this contract precludes any of that in fact having McMillan and a comprehensive team like this on board um I think will help us realize our goals of um you know the What is the most effective and efficient long-term solution okay yeah I just wanted to make sure that that we didn't get so far along the way along the road that we get to a point where they say well we've gone so far it doesn't make economic sense to even look at that anymore and that's something I'm I want to make sure I voice yeah yeah commissioner barowski I was just going to add that this is the kind of expertise that would inform

48:51 check-ins like that and so this is actually a necessary part of that process other questions no all right with that said I would I would approve move to approve whatever it was two of con Cal all right moved by barovsky second mik Carlson all in support say I Hi I hi pass the unanimous all right uh and then consent calendar B is there a motion for consent calendar B moved by Carlson is there a second second second by barowski any

49:36 discussion all in support say I I I all right passes unanimously going I'm going to skip number seven because we just did that moving on to item number eight uncoming year proposed budgets and prices

50:28 yeah great uh good evening it is and I found a green light good evening Commissioners uh we are back this evening with our proposed budgets and prices uh they remain uh the the numbers remain the same from what we shared last month there have been some updates to our Reserve tables that Alicia will go over but uh the numbers have remained the same uh I am Deborah Hart for the record with me this evening uh starting at the end Alicia Vorhees the budget and rates supervisor Adam Ru

51:13 rates manager and Aaron Balmer our acting uh financial services manager and Daniel Davidson and Janice Lee are also here and we're part of the budget team along with uh leadership of the utility uh to bring you this 2025 proposed budget with that I'm going to hand it over to you Aaron uh Alicia I GNA check my notes good evening the Grid on the slide is repres oh that is the wrong excuse me I'll start over on the screen behind me is the overview of this stages of the financial planning calendar uh last month we reviewed the proposed budgets and prices and sought board Direction on the

51:59 detailed draft budget document along with the 2025 price proposals for each customer class we are at the final stage of the process and so following our presentation this evening there is a public hearing scheduled and then we'll seek board action on the 2025 budgets and price proposals next slide please okay this grid behind me um is representative of the four budgets monitored for Budget Authority so board policy establishes that each utility shall have an operations and maintenance and capital budget and each budget is the maximum level of expenditure authorized by the board the figures um here correspond to

52:47 the light item totals found in attachment one of the proposed budget document included in your board packet there are updates to attachment four and five as Deborah mentioned and those are to refine yearend projection on our reserves and our metrics um but as Deborah mentioned budgeted figures have not changed from last month's presentation I will move it over to Adam for price changes thanks Alicia uh so the proposed uh price this chart shows the proposed price changes uh by customer class um these are the same as was presented in November uh these rate increases are based on the cost of service analysis and corporate

53:32 gradualism using the single year imp the water utility rate increases are essential for um generational Investments basic seismic um SE seismically vulnerable infrastructure as well as positioning ourself financially for future Investments uh the electric utility rate increases are also necessary for for replacing ping infrastructure uh the rate increases for both utilities uh will help address inflationary pressures right thank you so we seek to uphold affordability while maintaining safe reliable operations and Steward a pledge to the environment and our

54:18 community the graph on the left presents residential customer affordability as a measure of median household income for eweb and comparator cities in the Northwest bweb customers combined electric and water bills equate to 3.4% of median household income as a point of reference most state agencies consider a home energy burdened when 6% of income goes to energy costs and we seek to relieve utility burdened homes through our bill assistance programs as well as continue efforts to control costs and operate efficiently the graphs on the right present average eweb residential water and electric bill amounts among comparator utilities these graphs reflect recent

55:04 pricing as of September and we fully anticipate other utilities will raise rates in the near term particularly for electric comparators who would also be navigating bonnaville increases so for an average single family all electric residents proposed rate increases translate to an estimated $12 increase on the electric bill and a $3 increase on the water bill we anticipate we will maintain our position in the lower quartile among water comparators and remain mid-tier among electric comparators so in terms of communicating the change uh there is a year- round effort to inform customers about the

55:50 budget and rate setting process this is to help them understand how price changes will affect their bill and raise awareness about how rates are being used to provide safe reliable services that maintain our utility infrastructure as well as invest in system improvements that make their services better messaging will continue to raise awareness of the anticipated October 2025 BPA pass through and education about how BPA Services affect customer rates e web's incredible Communications team manages a myriad of communication channels as shown on the slide and also prepared a detailed rates communication and information package that was provided to both staff and Commissioners and will be

56:36 updated uh following passage of the proposed budget uh finally uh I'd be remiss if I didn't take this opportunity to acknowledge Finance staff and budget stakeholders across the organization that have done the heavy lifting uh behind this proposed budget uh while it's rarely fun to discuss needed rate increases uh I greatly appreciate uh the engagement among staff and management uh that occurred through the course of this budget cycle uh the commitment to affordability remains clear and I am thankful to play a role among such a great team and so with that uh I will uh move us or I'll say president mrae if you would uh we have scheduled this

57:22 evening a final public hearing and then we will be available for any questions uh following great thanks all right so we will go to item number nine on our agenda here public hearing on these upcoming year 2025 proposed budgets and prices so I'm going to open the public hearing have anybody signed up to speak we don't have anybody signed up to provide testimony so I'm going to close the Public Public hearing and then we'll go to item number 10 which is uh discussion and action from the board so questions comments Sonia just wanted to note that there was a comment earlier about us not increasing our some of the customer cares program and what we do for lowest income folks

58:09 and you know for me one of the things that we do is we very critically look at how much we're raising rates and staff did an excellent job of decreasing and working working it working it working it to keep the rates low and we've kept rates lower and haven't raised rates in many years um or didn't for many years whereas you know I look at Portland General Electric um this article from The Oregonian said that they raised rates in the last four years 40% or Pacific Power they're looking at 50% increase since 2023 I mean those are massive increases and so you know when you have that kind of jump from IUS and such yeah they probably have to raise

58:54 more to help cover it I think what we're doing is trying to keep the rates even though we have very significant supply chain pressures and other cost pressures we've done everything that we can to keep rates low for everyone and that's how we protect our customers and for those who are on that most bottom tier we give them some extra and we'll continue to look at that and continue to make sure that program is operating efficiently and I continue to care very much about how rental uh rental customers um are not able to get the same kind of access and I know that our um customer service team has been looking at that as well so to the extent that we can continue to to make an effort there um I think it's great and

59:41 thank you to staff for your work to keep rates low in very challenging times great thanks Mindy yeah um I would say of all the things that we do on the board this is maybe my least favorite um just because it doesn't feel very good to raise rates um I am really appreciative to staff that we that we don't have to raise them as much as anticipated so thank you for the hard work and the whatever kind of um accounting forensics or rate forensic somebody did to to dive really deep in there I appreciate that um and also I agree with Sonia um I I really um I know that we are committed and hope that we

1:00:26 continue to be committed to make sure that our uh lower income customers don't have to go without um electricity and that we fully fund those programs great thanks Brown yeah thank you very much um I have a question about one of the comparators I know that we compare sub on electric We compare sub on water but why isn't Springfield in on the percentage of uh mean income in in that comparative chart one the one on the far left so we are um we are limited in we we get our income data from uh Census Bureau reports and they do not show up

1:01:11 in the report that we use they're they into no way to get the mean income does anybody have any idea because I'm always question why are sub rates is so much lower and I know a lot of people in multif family go to Springfield just for that huge savings because that's their second largest expense short of rent and I just wondering why that comparator we can't have that or we don't have that because I know there's a mean income in I mean because they use it for low income qualifications in Springfield HUD has it and I mean a lot of the housing agencies have it why can't we get it the challenge for us becomes making sure that we've measured uh income in

1:01:58 the same way across all of the comparators and so that's why we use a single uh report but we can follow up and see if uh there is other information available that we could feel confident that it was comparable in the way that it was gathered and calculated okay well you're just curious because I I wanted to see where that metric lied because if we rely on on on the individual ones but we don't on the other ones we use different cities um I not questioning it other than I just I I know what's available and I get where come from but I would think that there's a standard like when they qualify for

1:02:43 low-income housing there's a standard income for every city in the county and it's all on the same basis so just asking maybe sometime in the future we could if others want to see it that's great but it it kind of tweaks my interest in more by that stands great thanks John I think the request is heard yeah um I guess I would just just a few comments one I want to thank you for the process that is laid out that you went over at the beginning of that we've been talking about budget for quite a while so this isn't like the deepest dive in fact it's maybe one of the shallower Dives because we're just looking at making taking a motion tonight so um I just want to thank you for the time that you've spent educating us and helping us all understand where we're going and as

1:03:30 other Commissioners have expressed the the Deep commitment to trying to you know um make our changes as gradual as possible with that I want to um Echo what Sonia was saying that we have had rates um held steady for a number of years and so we're a little bit unique in that way and yes they're going up in a way that I don't think anybody really wants to see but um that follows a long period of of very stable rates um and I think uh yeah I think that's it for me so um we have three oh I'm sorry yes um yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

1:04:16 yeah yeah so it sounds like um there uh we do have folks here who were prepared to provide testimony on the budget so if it's okay with everybody um I know I know we were just ready to make motions but I'd like to step back and make take an opportunity for folks to provide testimony um so I know we have um one person and so if there's anybody who wants to speak um is that you Ellen you want to step up here and uh provide your testimony thanks thank you um so as a stupidly lowincome person I just want to bring a little bit of a human aspect to this statistics up here when we say about um 3 point whatever percent of our income

1:05:02 as a really lowincome person a lot of times my eweb bill comes to maybe 33% of my income there have been months where it was 100% of my income that's not reflected in those charts and that there are people out in the in this community that are in that same kind of place as I am so please as we're talking about rates and keeping it down or sliding scill please keep that in mind thank you so much thanks great thank you alen is there anybody else here who wants to provide testimony uh regarding the budget okay um yes please Browski thanks um couple questions I don't know if you have a slide or not but could you talk about the changes I I didn't I I

1:05:48 apologize I didn't dig into the changes in the reserve policies uh could you just talk to those a little a little bit or do we not have a slide obviously we don't have a slide change in reserve numbers not not policy that numbers the numbers go ahead yeah the the only change there is just an update given that we uh brought information last month that projected where reserves would be at the end of the year and then uh performance uh based on budget next year so with that extra month of time we've just updated the projections are they higher or lower or both uh both they didn't move much okay I I'll I'll dig in um and I'm I'm kind of the

1:06:33 opposite of Mindy she hates this type of this time of the year this is what I live for is is budgeting uh I want to thank staff for all all the hard work that they did in getting the numbers to where they are um for me one of the things that would be helpful is and this can just come in in a memo or whatever so we're you know initially we were saying we were going to have a 15% increase and and I think that this board and a lot of people in the community said let's let's see what we can do and make that better and we brought that down to 7.7 and with a 4% increase in October if

1:07:20 you could let me know what the annual one would be cu the 4.4% is only going to be for two and a half months of this year so our increas is actually instead of being 7.7 plus 4 it's not going to be an 11.7% for this year it'll be whatever that is when you when you figure that out that would be nice to know so that I can say this year it went up this much when that second round of increases come come along it's it's just 4% higher for a few more months so that would be helpful um and again I want to thank staff for all the hard work but I also want to thank the board um you know these these packets when it comes to budget times are hundreds of pages long

1:08:07 and and going through and reading through them is a commitment that we make as as unpaid volunteers to give you guys input and policy Direction so I want to thank my fellow board members for the dilig due diligence that they do in digging into these these things um and I would uh look forward to seeing another one next year thank you great thank you yes please Frank yeah Commissioners I appreciate the the comments um I think it's always important to provide some context um whether you enjoy the process or not um the fact that we are a community-owned

1:08:52 utility we have an obligation um to invest our our communities and and have be a good Steward of that of that Financial resource um and so um much of this is about the things that we need as a community going forward not just in the day-to-day supplying of the essential services but the investment needed to continue to supply those Services going forward and so you're providing oversight on if we were to be Market valued in the stock market a$2 and5 billion dollar company probably and you provide the the guidance that that we need to be able to to manage um this

1:09:37 organization I would say that um commissioner Carlson your your perspective on uh limited Income Support is is um well taken I think that one of the things we did this year recognizing that we there was a a rate increase we incre the funding for our limited Income Support as part of that um we we also recognized um public testimony relative to the fact that um these numbers are based on median income and Eugene in particular when we look at the number of people below the federal poverty level level we use that in our calculation to try to U fund that particular assistance appropriately and and we'll we'll

1:10:23 continue to look at that going forward we we do do recognize that we need to to look at that um and and modernize that to a certain extent so um and I would also say that that 3.4% um percentage of median income in 2015 was 4.25 and so uh over the the years the last several years that percentage uh We've we've worked to bring that percentage down so thank you thank you Frank other comments questions all right uh moving on then to board approval of proposed budgets and prices we have three resolutions please I have a

1:11:08 question on our agenda it has us voting on it at 7:05 and that the public hearing is at 655 so um you want to wait I'm wondering if we could just go to the next um agenda item and then before the break come back to this vote yeah unless there's oppos position to doing that I'm fine with doing that we just yep does that work that works okay we'll come back to that item thank you for flagging that may come back to that um item number 10 after our break uh somewhere slightly after 7 o'clock and then um that would put us to item number 11 which is the 2025 energy resource

1:11:53 study thanks Mindy all right good evening Commissioners I'm Brian Booth Chief energy resource officer here at eweb I have great news you if you loved a presentation full of numbers if we got the thing for you uh so tonight joining me uh we have Ben ol a lead analyst for our resource planning

1:12:38 efforts here at eweb and Megan kapper energy resource manager up on the agenda tonight I will be taking a refresh of our product Choice timeline we're going to dive into the initial uh modeling results and findings and we hope to have pretty healthy discussion uh before I Advance on though I did want to do a little bit of table setting about uh the product that we have here tonight I it is it is funny and that it is both Cutting Edge and also a incredible exercise in estimation uh we are leading a surprisingly small number of utilities who are doing this level of analysis um and it is estimation and

1:13:23 that we are guessing what prices will be in the future uh we are looking at BPA prices which will not be published for years uh based on information that they have provided they have put out a draft document that is hundreds of pages long we've taken the words in that document and the words on a thousand PowerPoint slides and tried to turn them into math uh which we are then using to this is my crystal ball here uh predict the future um so on top of that uh we have overlaid our own resource optimization model so that we can take these BPA products and layer in additional resources that would

1:14:09 be needed to balance you know the power that we get from BPA to meet our loads uh we believe that we are you know leading the region in this effort we are not aware of any other utility that has gotten this far uh and this team and those that are on the call should be tremendously proud of that work uh so with that said I I do need to say that these are initial results uh I'm going to put a big as risk here and say that more clarity will be gained over the next few months when we come back to you with final results you're going to see a BPA contract and portfolio numbers that range from Two and a Half to 3.2 billion dollars with a b um you'll see a range of scenario

1:14:54 outcomes associated with each of those that range plus or minus you know hundreds of millions of dollars we are looking at long-term trends with resource costs you know what does it cost to build a re a wind farm for example we're looking at scenarios for timing on transmission builds which nobody really knows and we are well we don't know any better than BPA does what it will cost to operate the federal system so with that very large as risk in mind I would encourage everyone to view these results as I do which is how they come out relative to each other products that show up as substantially more or less expensive than others are likely to really be substantially more or less expensive than others and those

1:15:40 that appear relatively the same are probably likely to be relatively the same so with no further Ado I will pass it on uh to Megan jump into it great thank you so what you have up here is our current timeline we started the energy resource study to provide the analytics around the BPA product decision earlier this year with a kickoff in March we also formed an executive steering committee charged with making the product recommendation and guiding the analytical process while it is management who ultimately will be responsible for recommending a BPA product consistent with board values we're informing Commissioners in public as we go in July we

1:16:25 provided you with an overview of the BPA product options in October held a work session discussed the qualitative factors this evening as Brian has shared we're going to share our findings from our initial quantitative analysis we're calling these results as Brian also said initial because uh while the basic structure of the products are defined there are still significant elements BPA is working on around rate design and product um braving product design and implementation so while we can't make a recommendation based on the quantitative analysis yet we think that this is um still useful these early findings and we're going to share them with you tonight so looking ahead staff are currently working to update our timeline

1:17:11 for delivering a final product recommendations to the board in June as you can note next June a revised timeline will allow staff to incorporate analysis for some product features that BPA is still finalizing and to iterate on additional scenarios and risk analysis with the ex uh executive steering committee further a resis timeline will align the energy resource study results with the proforma financial analysis and incorporate that long-term financial plan and rate impact modeling so the new timeline um we will share with you uh in early uh 2025 so with that I'm going to pass it to Ben to to discuss uh the initial

1:17:57 modeling results great thanks Megan so I think Brian uh Megan covered it really well the initial part of this uh I do want to give a a a recognition to Aaron Bush and John krier who are two senior analysts in our power planning department who have really been diving into the details and trying to turn this into quantitative results and so I get to be the one up here sharing some of the highle takeaways uh but this is very much a team effort it's going to be even more of a team effort as we expand the analysis to include proforma financials and things like that so there's a lot going on here and so um happy to get to share it with you all tonight so at a high level trying to go

1:18:43 back what are the the five different bonnaville products that we've been considering and um I've got this uh chart here that we showed back in July to the board and as a quick recap these uh the products vary in how much service that Bonville provides on both a planning and real-time basis and of course there's additional costs for more services and uh what we really tried to highlight in some of the qualitative discussions with the board on tradeoffs was you know load following this chart I think kind of shows it the The Limited uh marker there on the bottom right next to the load following product there's some trade-offs with that particular product because bonnaville um meets all of your requirements for you they manage your load variability for you and in

1:19:28 order to do that they need um predictability from E web's other assets so it's kind of a trade-off between flexibility and predictability where EB's uh giving up some of our flexibility uh in the exchange for Bonville to handle that load variability on our behalf um and so they need predictable uh hourly schedules from our other assets so we kind of talked about that at a qualitative level and like you know what that tradeoff would look like um and we we lined up these products um and thought about them in the context of the new contracts so um starting at the top here there's slic block with the the most flexibility in the system where bonnaville is giving us a a shape of their system a slice of the federal system and eweb can ramp that up and

1:20:13 down to meet our needs um the block product is where they just give you a fixed flat block of energy that they've kind of pre-shaped for you and then there's the block with shaping capacity Product Where eweb would have the ability to move that energy up and down up to our one and two peaks or average Peaks and then there's this uh block with shaping with an optional Peak load variance service that's a peaking service from Bonville where they can give you more flexibility Beyond just your one and 10 or excuse me your one and two or your average Peaks you can actually get a little bit more service from them and get up to your one and 10 Peaks and so they're giving you a little bit more capacity that you can shape and meet your hourly needs needs um from bonnaville um and then finally load

1:20:58 following is kind of your your highest level of service where they meet all your needs for you and I just want to clarify that this we're going to call this new slice so we have a great product in slice block today that served us well under the current contract and what we're talking about in the next contract is the updated terms and conditions of slice so I'm going to try and refer to it as new slice tonight so we stay on the same page there and think about what products will meet our needs best in the future so I want to lead with the bottom line up front what are our initial modeling results showing us uh we have uh as we ran different scenarios we found that the block was shaping plus peaking service and the load following product seemed to be our leading uh candidate uh portfolio

1:21:44 options when we ran multiple scenarios and we we found ourselves uh wanting to dive into that more but I wanted to lead that with tonight is that our initial modeling results you're showing those two as our leading products and we're thinking that it'll help us narrow in and focus our analytical efforts going forward so tonight I want to share why are those two products leading so when you go to set up a model you need to fill it with a bunch of assumptions as Brian said and so we set up our base case with midpoints for pretty much everything that we had in our assumption so any time we had an option between high and low we tend to choose an average or or midpoint and then we ran an initial set of 17 different scenarios saying okay what's

1:22:29 the high side and what's the low side of each of these input assumptions and we were intentionally trying to create product differentiation trying to explore which inputs were most impactful to which products would be your least cost option I want to be clear that we didn't choose these based on likelihood we're just trying to explore which assumptions were most impactful and we intentionally tried to create product differences so some of the scenarios that we explored was okay what if your load growth is higher or lower than what we assumed in the base case what if market prices are higher or lower than what we assumed in the base case what if the cost of those new non-federal resources that you need to supplement a given Bond ofil product are higher lower uh we also looked at BPA rates like what if they're higher than what we

1:23:15 expect um we we also explored uh resource adequacy Target so we know that the Western resource adequacy program is being stood up and part of that would be e web would need to have certain metrics that we need to hit and so we looked at turning those standards on and off and see how it impacted the results and what we found we we tried to put on a box whisker diagram here and so one of the questions we get is okay what at the top of the chart here we've labeled at 20-year portfolio costs excluding Resource Management costs so what is the what are these all-in numbers that we talked about that's in the you know two to uh three and a half billion dollar range so that is the 20-year forecasted cost of your Bonville product as well as any non-federal

1:24:02 resources that you would need to supplement that bonil Bonville product over the next 20 years so in 16 out of the 17 scenarios we assumed that e would have load growth in the future and that we would continue to see our loads grow in 16 out of the 17 scenarios we ran we assumed that there'd be a Source adequacy program in that future and what that U meant is that it had impacts on uh these two leading candidates they what jumped out to us was that those two products tended to be the lowest cost options in many of the scenarios that we ran and we asked ourselves why is that

1:24:47 and one of the reasons that we found was that Bonville peaking service that they're providing in both the load following product and the block was shaping plus peaking service option provided the eweb with the most access to low cost capacity from Bonville and that turned out to be very valuable as we thought about planning for a future where we might have load growth and resource adequacy targets that we needed to hit so trying to tell that same story in a bit more context here when we talked about the different products and comparing them from a capacity perspective I I've got a chart pulled up here where the block only product is on the left and the load following product is on the right and and load following

1:25:33 is again where bonnaville is meeting all your needs and they're meeting all those capacity Targets on your behalf and all the other products are called plann products where EB's responsible in some capacity to meet our those targets and so you'll notice that the block was shaping plus Peak load variant service or peaking service there is the smallest capacity Gap relative to the other planed products and that capacity Gap seems to be a key driver of these uh these study results I want to add in another layer to that is that at this time we're seeing that there's a cost we're anticipating a cost difference between

1:26:19 the cost of Bonville peaking capacity Services here shown in blue so we've got these blue bars with a dollar sign and there's a difference between how Bonville has committed to price those peaking capacity services for their products and any non-federal supplemental capacity that EB might need to buy in the future now as Brian pointed out these are these are assumptions and but we're making these assumptions based on the rate design proposals from Bonville and Bonville is committed to offer their peaking capacity services at their embedded cost costs which today are roughly half the cost of what we think new marginal resources are like new wind new solar batteries things like that and so that

1:27:04 context is a key driver of this result and so I want to acknowledge that they can converge over time but early in the study period it's very likely that bonnaville capacity costs will likely be much will likely be roughly half the cost of non-federal resources that's a key driver in these results so going back to these initial results what are we going to do with them you know it's not conclusive we're not in a place where we can make a product Choice based on these initial modeling results well what we're going to do first is share our assumptions with the public try and put our numbers out there we're also soliciting feedback from other Regional experts uh other utilities who are trying to make this product comparison and make these decisions and

1:27:50 get feedback from them we're going to be trying to focus more anal iCal time towards doing a deeper dive on these leading products like load following and block was shaping plus peaking service and really hone in where our uh analytics will go and get more guidance from the executive steering committee to how uh to give them analytics that are useful in decision-making and then uh we're also going to incorporate other Financial considerations like Megan mentioned around risk and value and Resource Management costs like not every product has the same cost for Staffing levels and things like that uh so uh the last uh piece of guidance that we got from the executive steering committee as well was uh I've highlighted the new slice

1:28:35 product here uh the new slice product is a a little bit higher in our initial modeling results but we're going to continue to think of it as a product as usual because e has really good operational context to that product and so we're going to continue to consider that as well so we're not taking things off the table so much as we're using these results to help hone in on leading candidates and with that we can open it up for discussion great thank you questions from Members schosberg great thank you for that presentation um so I have a question um when we're looking to the Future given what bpa's capacity is now do they have

1:29:20 enough to meet everybody's needs or they have to build more or acquire more resources so bonable has done an energy study that they released they have not uh release their capacity study we do um believe that there there is a chance that they do um need capacity day one of the contract starting um they uh what they will do is uh go out and procure that and then they will uh spread that cost among all of us all of the customers taking uh their tier one products any products and so how does that how does that work with our carbon targets uh do they have the same kind of

1:30:07 um goals that we do or are they are they totally different I think it's a really good question um I think that that is not something that we have uh uh had we haven't uh explored that with them yet but there have been a lot of concerns expressed by the public customers that it needs to be clean capacity but there's no guarantee I would um I think when the C the customers have been so clear it wouldn't it I think it would be very difficult for Bonville not to do clean capacity but yes you're right there's no guarantee right now um well I appreciate all this work that you're doing because it feels like we're trying to buy a house but we don't know how much it costs or we don't get

1:30:52 the home inspection and we don't know the terms of the mortgage but we have to sign the contract [Laughter] yes um that looks pretty from the outside right so I guess I'm just wondering like what are some other issues or things that might come up that um I don't know might throw us for a loop or um might be might not be in line with our values I'm he you go first I don't want to suck the O out of that one no I I I think it's a difficult decision for us to

1:31:37 scenario plant so we did initial 17 right just these are only 17 data points and I think we're just so interested to find out what are what are some major drivers of the results just so we can hone in on like what's really important to eweb and so we did use these initial modeling results to actively influence BPA product design Megan and Brian took our modeling results right away to Bonville and said um we really care about this peaking service we need to know more details we need more information so it is difficult because we don't have all the information and we're actively influencing changes in the designs of the product and then we need to update our modeling results after they respond to our influence so it is tricky to iterate on this so I there's a lot of uncertainty and so

1:32:22 we're trying to figure out how can we start with some initial numbers and then start exploring uncertainty even more under the guidance of the executive steering committee because I think that's where we need to go next I think it's also really important to note what what what Frank uh I'll repeat Frank is saying is that we we have all good product options Bonville is a good product choice for us and so it's the narrowing down and really understanding the difference between those two options but for me I think it's a some of the regulatory uncertainty that gives me the most pause um the inflation reduction act we don't know what will become of it under the next Administration we don't know who the next BPA administrator will be John

1:33:07 Harriston sounded very much like he uh would not be there at the end of 2025 last time I heard him speak um yeah there are some big very expensive moving Parts out there so for us know winning strategy is one where we choose options with low regret risk what can we do now that we won't regret doing in the future right well thank you I appreciate your work I know that it's not easy g go to Frank and then yeah commiss commissioner um I think one of the really important things is that we're not just looking at one number whenever you're dealing with a decision involving 20 years trying to

1:33:52 buy a house without a home inspect I don't know exactly how it was described great analogy we are we are trying to understand the resiliency of whatever particular decision we come up with and that's that's a little different than we would historically Define resiliency it's to look at these wh if scenarios and say how much variance does this create what kind of problems or opportunities does it create when we when we look at some of the excursions that could be um happening whether it's markets whether it's growth whether it's prices Supply chains Ira you know there's there's all kinds of scenarios and so we're not just looking to buy the cheapest house we're looking to buy the

1:34:38 house that can meet our needs the best going forward and so um I I do think that when you think about Bonville Bonville is a fixed size system presently and it has a lot of suitors and so it's a very popular option with people and so that's why capacity is important Megan mentioned that that at some point um that we we think it that the demand for bonab bills Services um will be greater than their at least ability today to supply and so they're going to have to come up with these supplemental options and so um the other part of resiliency is and

1:35:23 and really wasn't talked about today because this was the part of the numbers presentation but we have to Overlay this before we bring a recommendation to the board um we also have to Overlay this with the other values that we have stated as an organization which has to do with safety reliability environmental stewardship um you know the Equitable pieces of it and so we have to weigh those things into this as as well and so you know your com your question about the environmental attributes is a very appropriate one um you know we we like the system that's there but but you know looking at growth and uh from either our resources or their or a federal resource there are differences in how those um

1:36:09 options would approach environmental attributes for example so resiliency of the decision is a is a key piece of this great thanks for letting me weigh in yeah thanks I'll go to Sonia and then Brown I'll come to you next uh just real quick we can go back a couple of slides so you had 17 different scenarios and I was just really just high level how did you decide what those scenarios were you said 16 of them had load growth were there any others that had kind of not like they were skewed to one side or another and how did you kind of make that determination on what those scenarios would be we tried to choose scenarios that were consistent so like

1:36:54 for example in a future where Bonville has higher rates and we assume Bonville rates go up you'd want to make sure your new resource costs are also going up so recognizing that it's a driver for Bonville costs as well as EB's cost so we tried to make sure we made scenarios that made sense because you could theoretically turn dials opposite directions and give you a completely nonsensical result so we really were conscious to avoid those types of scenarios right yeah we we I would say we really focused in on what did we believe were the biggest dials that would have the most impact on ranking so load growth was one that I think creates a lot of uncertainty between the products and we're going to be doing deeper dives into those uh particular

1:37:39 drivers um I I think one of the goals of this initial results presentation was to zoom out even farther and just say what are some things that we think are going to be holding true as we continue to refine these and turn the dials more um capacity being very important and a key driver of value is a consistent finding that we think are going to carry through all the way to the final product recommendation so that's why we wanted to pause and share those initial findings with you today um so I I think um I think some of that storytelling of uh this product is a winner in a future where this happens is exactly where we're going with the executive steering committee next and so we're bringing everyone along but I want

1:38:24 to be clear that the executive steering committee is out in front of this helping us hone in on what's actually helpful on making these decisions so we're sharing this with you now as we're kind of efforting out in front of that and trying to say okay yeah which which ones do we need to zoom in on more and what Futures do we need to think about where one product is more successful than another because you mentioned that you know it's not the likelihood of I think that particular scenario but but underline these different variables there are more likely uh leaning scenarios versus you know higher market prices more of them probably lean towards that or the BPA rates probably lean more towards the higher side I

1:39:09 would guess so the way that you're dialing them in is more geared towards the likelihood of those variables specifically but not the likelihood of each of the individual 17 individually yeah I'd say there's more Nuance within each scenario but something that had less Nuance to it was some of these early findings is like what you know we we believe that a reliability program of some effect will be in the future and we believe that Bonville pricing and rates design will will be impactful to our decision in the future so on in terms of these scenarios my last question I'll I'll let go but the last um are any of these like standout really much bigger impacts than

1:39:55 some of the others or are these all just major drivers depending on how far you turn the dial yeah I think you won't be surprised to hear that load growth is the biggest assumption right so it drives your need for new resources so that's that's certainly material one um and one that we're going to want to explore further Frank I see his hands up yeah commissioner Carlson I would just weigh him real quickly and say that what we use the term scenarios for the presentation today but I would almost describe these as Sensi tivities of individual um variables which as you described one of the steps we will go to next is a collection of sensitivities which becomes a scenario of sort of a future world right if if the future looks like this then these sensitivities

1:40:41 exist and they play against each other and then we'll test that then then you would add in that that likelihood sort of situation it's like okay well we've got these 17 but maybe number 10 is far more likely so we add in some probability around it that's correct okay I'll stop diving into the dets thank you appreciate I think it'd be easier if Brown just brought in his crystal ball and we could just ask it but Brown questions you you you guys are gonna get that before this hey um first I just like to say I know that the staff is gonna bring us a recommendation because this thing is uh graduate level if not up all at the top and I really really appre apprciate the way you're explaining the basis for what your final

1:41:26 recommendation or is going to be because you're bringing us along what I believe be a great great way to educate us and let us know why you're doing what you're doing um I do have a question you said you have resource and the fact that load growth is is a high thing on that's not just our load growth that's the system load growth is that correct I I'm going to repeat your question because I think it broke up for a little bit there but when you asked about load growth you're saying that's the system load growth not just EB's load growth is that that's correct we just looked at e web's load growth um our market price forecasts

1:42:12 assume Regional load growth so it's it's baked into our market price assumptions um but we the variables we uh played with were were our own Lo growth trajectory gas throughout the the region and uh and I know that if Bonville goes to small scale nuclear is that a product that we're going to acquire or are we even allowed to acquire I mean I know it can't be produced in Oregon but um if if if for peing I don't see any other option if if we're going to have to have peaking capacity someplace in the system

1:42:59 is that something that's uh you would Envision that we're going to be looking at so commissioner with each of these scenarios we do have a a resource build which you probably saw in the last IRP that projection of you know what new resources could could be built to meet to meet our portfolio in the least cost you know lowest environmental impact way then looking your way I do not believe that smrs were pulled in any of those scenarios no not not in um no we've updated our new resource options and but we are not focusing on those tonight because we don't want to be distracted by that particular topic while we focus on on comparing the baville products just to elaborate and I think

1:43:44 commissioner Brown was was getting to this as well it is somewhat prod product dependent if we lean into bonnaville for a let's say a load following product where they are responsible really for acquiring additional resource for us then we have to buy we are essentially buying their mix of product we we cannot go to Bonville and say we want all the green electrons instead of the blue electrons that we're going to get a mix from Bonville at that point yeah that you answered my question so so again um for bring this along at least me along to a level where um I'm

1:44:29 hopefully going to be be able to really understand what you thank you all right thank you John um I have just a few questions um I'm wondering I'm looking at the question you're asking and kind of asking it in reverse so you're asking the question you're asking is like which of the Bonville products as we understand them is mostly most likely to suit our needs given kind of what we know about what we think our needs might be in the future and I wonder if looking gazing into this crystal ball at all um causes us to think about the the factors within our control I mean e web's control in terms of load growth um

1:45:16 especially and peaking and capacity need are the things that as you're looking at this you're you're thinking hm there are some things that are within our control we ought to be focusing on that we're well even if we are focusing them on already does it emphasize any of those things that we're already paying attention to I think so uh particularly with the look over my shoulder to make sure I've got the I know which slide is behind me uh particularly with the the plan products those other than load following um they're all probably pretty complimentary to our our current operations and the way that we currently go about building and maintaining our own portfolio um a Nuance that I did want to put out here is that with this slide in

1:46:02 particular this is talking strictly about capacity peaking capacity and we did not in this deck hit on what energy resources we'd be looking at you know to meet all the hours that aren't you know our peak hours of the year right and in any of these scenarios there's a pretty significant need we're looking at substanti load growth over time with electrification we have thousands of electric vehicles in the service territory and that number grows 40% every year um I believe Ben please no your head if I'm right uh in the load following base case we were looking at $470 Million worth of you know new resource build I and that's in the the load following case again like the one

1:46:47 where we would build the least under the block product base case I believe that was more like 1.8 billion looking leisa's way I don't think we're building 1.8 billion worth of stuff yep I saw a shake of the head over there but 470 mil is still a substantial amount of work so that would be our own uh Lo or our own New Generation that we would be investing in is what I'm hearing that is the way it was modeled out a BPA can go out and invest in quote tier 2 assets similarly but BPA can't own yeah resources they can simply contract for them so the question for us is whether we would want to you know own our own resources or contract with or yeah contract with him to contract with somebody else exactly I see all right

1:47:32 Frank yeah president McCrae the full answer to your question doesn't just come with a Bonville discussion so U part of our uh 2023 IRP and in fact what we're calling our energy resource study going forward looks be this is a component of that but we're also looking at a demand side potential assessment study for example what kind of demand response capabilities do we have in this region what kind of Energy Efficiency at what cost is still out there so there's there's some other pieces that need to be considered and are being considered so the answer is yes um um not just the Bonville component though it's it's the entire energy resource planning effort

1:48:18 that has to be looked at that as well as the the other piece of this which is the management of these assets we've kind of we've I think it was referred to kind of in this discussion as as a a performa you heard the term performa say that's really kind of looking at our business model options which is you know what do we own what do we manage what do we procure what do we contract what are all those mixes look like and that's got to be done in parallel with a bondil decision right uh and then my last question as I know anytime you dive into something like this it just brings up more questions like what are the next couple questions that you're going to go try to answer well I'll answer that that one thing I'm consistently hearing from

1:49:04 everyone is likelihood bring in likelihood into the the scenarios or variability so I think I I see a spending efforts there um we're getting a lot of questions on product feasibility what do these products really look like what would it what would the real world experience eweb look like what kind of Staffing impa ta how would we optimize around it what would be our other resource strategy if we did this what we so I think that pragmatism layer to this I think is where we're we're going to be going next um and that's why we have the executive steering committee because I think ultimately they're who's going to pull the strategy parts that Frank's speaking to the realities on the ground and pull that all together so I think that's kind of where I see it going is trying to layer in more details and complex

1:49:53 starting with these initial results as a as a starting point makes sense thanks Brian for me I want to torture tested yeah we have some exciting historical events uh that we've lived through here the ice storm uh for example last Summer's Heatwave I would love to test some of these products and see how they perform with some some back testing yeah yeah great uh interested very interested to see what the next iteration produces thank you yeah brosi okay so a couple I've got three different questions um the block withth shape P plus PS as opposed to load following are two are two high or two semi-finalists in The

1:50:41 Price is Right um if we go with load following we have to dedicate our resources to bonnaville and to me that seems seems like a iffy scenario considering what we've seen with our generations and the history of what we can generate dealing with FK so that means they're going to say Carmen has a name plate of 12 megawatts and a average production of nine I'm not sure what it is but I'm pulling that out we would have to guarantee that to bonnaville whether or not Caron's spinning or not and if it's not spinning we have to go out and find that on the open market correct so to me

1:51:27 that gives me pause on that one I think but if we go with the block with shape with PS we get to use our car and our resources how we feel is best to use them is that scenario correct yeah I think you're in the think you've got the spirit of it load following uh we would essentially work for Bonville right and they would serve our load with any of the other products they work for us to serve our load one correct one cab got to that commissioner is if for some reason Bonville wasn't operating to the performance level that was expected we would not have to go out and get additional resources Bonville would fill that Gap and charge us for it

1:52:14 that's the load following scenario is is it would not be up to us to go no no no but they would they would buy it on the market and we would have have to pay we'd have to pick whatever that was um now Brian correct me if I'm wrong just a of a round or I'm not I'm pointing at you but I'm not sure if who up there to ask not all of our resources have to be dedicated that's correct so statutorily only our Hydro resources have to be dedicated to load so right now we have our I contract we have Sierra Pacific we have a number of regional wind farms all of which are dedicated and we can use them to serve load we can Market them to the region however we see Fed that is much more

1:52:59 challenging under a load following contract I love your housing analogy um looking at some of these products like when I look at flat block boy there's a lot of moss on the roof and that's um probably a bad sign for everything else when you look at load following that's a nice house at a nice value but the HOA they're kind of a nightmare to deal with so there is a uh there's a value propy right there and again for me I see see all the money that we have put in and are going to have to put into carment and I think that that's something that we it's a a peaking utility that we can we can monetize and try and get some of that

1:53:44 money back if we keep it under our control so I'm leading that way um as far as scenarios or what what did you you call them that scenarios sensitiv sensitivities have you put in and I know it's tough because we haven't really had much work on it but demand management and how that would affect the RAB because if if demand management works in the way we want it could lower our W contribution I'm thinking is that uh sensitivity that we have enough data that we can put that in from other utilities we we are getting the some initial results from the demand side potential assessments so the question is how much

1:54:29 potential is out there that could be used for that so that's a factor we haven't layered that in yet um those final deliverables are coming um soon here um I I think the order of magnitude on demand response is in the you know let's say five megawatts range um and so as your needs grow Beyond five megawatts which is pretty likely in in the future you'll still need to supplement with other resources so that's my initial great but we haven't you're right we haven't run that scenario yet okay that was just I mean that's just one that I know that as a utility that's something that we're we spent a whole bunch money to get this new enterprise system up there so that we may have the opportunity to use that

1:55:15 that tool going forward and so I know that that's something that as a board we were excited about and I just want to know if that was a sensitivity that we could plug in so those are my questions thank you for your work I do want to add I just don't want to add excuse me um during our feasibility uh study is when we're really going to uh test about the wrap because with load following Bonville takes on our wrap obligation but with um uh uh our other plan products um we we take that on and and it's the price sign that uh it provides the incentive uh under certain uh I guess the certain ways that we would Define um and and I

1:56:01 guess structure our products so that's what we have to explore more and we'll do that in that product feasibility and then I guess one other question that would be nice for me to know is how many in the last three years how many times have we hit one and two and how many times have we hit one in 10 yeah we we'll get back to you with some numbers I they are one and two monthly Peaks so pretty often on those the one and tens we'll have to take a look my emotional response is that they're like hundred-year floods and they seem to happen every few years but uh we'll freshen that up and then when does w kick in is it at above one and two or is it one one and

1:56:47 10 so to clarify um so EB is scheduling or targeting to go binding in the wp in 2027 and so all of the modeling results you see assume that a product and being binding under wrap uh so these all are solving with those reliability Targets in mind commissioner barovsky I would say when you saw the planning Reserve margin number there or line there that is approximately a one in 10 there's in some case a little above a little it's it's about it's pretty close to a one and 10

1:57:32 number great thank you do you all have what you need from us thank you very much for the time and unpacking all this for us you very much thank you all right for those playing along at home we're going to go back to item number 10 on the agenda um actually go back to nine and just see if there's anybody here to provide testimony um for the hearing on upcoming year proposed budgets and prices we opened that already but want to make sure there's an opportunity if anybody came in late and I'm not seeing anybody um raising their hand for that so we're just going to go to item number 10 again um which is board action on upcoming year 2025 proposed budgets and prices so

1:58:17 we have three different resolutions we'll go through one at a time resolution number number 2422 the 2025 budget is there a motion to approve moved by Carlson is there a second second second by schlosberg any discussion all in support say I I I passes unanimously thank you brown resolution number 2423 electric prices is there a move to approve moved by Carlson is there a second second by schlosberg any discussion all in support say I I I thank you brown passes unanimously and lastly resolution number

1:59:03 2424 water prices is there a move to approve move to approve moved by Carlson is our second second by schlosberg any discussion hearing none uh all in support say I I thank you brown uh passes unanimously so that wraps up item number 10 anything I missed there uh thanks to the team for presenting all that material for us and making it understandable always all right so we'll take a break and come back to item number 13 we be back in 10 minutes

2:12:05 to order the December 3rd meeting of the Eugene Water and Electric Board and we are going to go to item number 13 rate design priorities record of board Direction Frank president McCrae Commissioners uh good evening again for the audio record I'm Frank Lawson the general manager of eweb and joining me up here uh for this topic is Adam Ru eweb rates manager um you did receive a packet um regarding this particular agenda item that that included some some draft uh a draft uh rate design plan and um just wanted to run through briefly what we'll talk about this evening and and get your feedback on um we will review a little

2:12:51 bit uh why rate Design's important and why now um as well as kind of taking a look at some of the tradeoffs uh review some of the highlights of the rate design plan and then um gather some feedback uh from Commissioners we're not asking for a discret approval this evening this is to open the conversation uh we recognize that uh until you put uh some of this to to text that um it's um sometimes difficult to ask for open-ended comments on something until you have something concrete to take a look at and so um that's what we'll be initiating tonight and one of the things to to make sure that we recognize is

2:13:36 that um rate design um is one of those topics that's impactful it's also uh important that we Define the scope of what we're talking about when we speak about rate design and so we'll try to incorporate some of that relative to uh rate design kind of why it's important why now I think what we've recognized as an organization is that when we look at the past and we dealt with really passive consumption that in order to meet our strateg strategic objectives to be able to optimize uh the delivery of our services we are going to need to engage our customers and so their behavior on how they consume our product will matter and therefore how we can incentivize them to

2:14:22 um and reward them for beneficial behavior and sharing those benefits is an important aspect of rate design which is why it's timed where it is um in our strategy kind of where it fits also uh relative to some of the things that actually have occurred this evening um you you understand that that we look at financial planning we develop Revenue requirements we look in detail at cost of services we try and allocate those costs in certain ways and then rate design really focuses on the method of recovery of those costs and how we've allocated those some of the cost analysis um which um Adam this is one of your loves right

2:15:10 Ian this Adam really uh deals with a lot of the cost of service analysis and how we uh look at Cost causation that is an area that we will talk about a a little bit more as we go forward um looking at how rates are developed um especially when we transition from a cost-based um driver to a behavior-based driver um this was the the trilemma of rate design that we kind of introduced uh last I think believe in October uh recognizing and and I think the that yes these are elements of rate design that in some cases can be intention um and some cases they're they are

2:15:55 complimentary um but really deal with the fact that um there are ways that you can look specifically at consumption uh rates which is what we're what we're talking about here and the recognition that in order to establish proper behavioral drivers behavioral uh rates you have to have a really good cost basis to begin with and I think that that's something that um will be a part of the first phase of the rate design plan that was that turn so just as far as the the highlights um one of the things that we recognized um and this is really part of the the important part of defining the scope is that um sometimes

2:16:42 rate design gets intermingled with fees and also with programs and I think that's kind of what you you heard earlier um when when we think for example about our limited income support that doesn't necessarily mean that it's Incorporated in the consumption-based rates it can be through a separate program and so uh these are all related and I think we have to uh look at decisions around rate design in those contexts um but when we talk sometimes specifically about rates or rate design it has to do with consumption but we also have to recognize that we have fees and we also have have programs and I think that um we're we're trying to capture the essence that those are those are related um we also really understand

2:17:30 the importance of uh the board and customer collaboration in this process um again it's a very impactful uh topic for customers it's also uh one that people feel passionate about it's also a complex one and so we recognize this is going to be a long journey um as we develop and transition and look at rates um because it's so impactful to every single one of our customers um we also um the feedback that we got um from the board um just recently was that there's there's an importance to having a cost basis for these rates uh that's that's fair uh we also um the reason

2:18:16 that those rates um uh need to be based in that way is so that we can look at behavioral um Trends going forward and from a consumption perspective good consumption Behavior should make us more efficient more streamlined and how we develop those and incentivize those and share in those benefits will be part of the transition to behavior-based um pricing and then um it was kind of reiterated that uh limited Income Support is important again not necessarily directly in the consumption based rates but programmatically um it is important the board expressed that in October um we do allocate a certain amount of budget

2:19:01 recognizing that there is a part of our population that we serve that falls into that burdened category and um the size of that budget is developed in order to move those customers from a burdened to an unburdened State and so um but not necessarily using the rate the consumption based rate itself to to make that happen finally just the the phases of the the rate design approach U kind of looking at some some planning and Analysis pieces to that um over the next couple of years 2025 2026 uh we'll really take a deeper dive

2:19:46 into cost causation not just from an average cost cost basis which is where we've been historically but also looking at marginal costs and potential future cost forecasting um that will uh likely result in certain um elements being implemented potentially as early as 2026 some of those might be recognizing that there is a certain fixed versus variable component to this um I think we've all recognized that we have a a high number of fixed costs a high amount of fixed cost the very first gallon of water and the very first electron delivered are the most expensive uh the marginal cost past that are of course lower um and

2:20:31 we'll have to uh have some discussions around what that looks like from a a rates perspective um relative to uh consumption Behavior itself um we also um recognize that one of the important pieces and it it's come up in a number of different ways it came up earlier this this evening this importance on the energy side of understanding and mitigating for Peak um Peak energy demand is by far the most expensive it's also by far the dirtiest of the electricity and so um understanding if there's elements that we can start to recognize and put in place um sooner rather than later um is something that we'll evaluate um in phase two and then

2:21:17 phase sorry that should be phase three actually there's two phase twos but phase three would be 2027 2028 where we really start to get into um rates and new rate designs um such as uh time of use rates potentially uh looking at new programs around demand response um and understanding the value of certain types of beneficial behavior and so um through all these phases we do plan to have a number of different um discussions with the board and the public um so that people can understand we can understand their perspectives and they we can also uh use that to make recommendations and look at engaging uh uh impacts and so um before I open it up

2:22:04 for questions um president McCrae I did want to acknowledge that um not just externally but internally rate design is impactful across the organization and so um a lot of of of effort and thoughts and planning um from uh you Jen Connor's and our in our Communications Group um of course Adam um some people within customer Solutions um Anna Wade for example um Brian on the on the energy side you know Tyler nice on the operational side I mean these uh all of these people have been um starting to look at rate design and the impacts across the organization so it's it is

2:22:51 one that not only has tentacles to all of our customers it also uh has many impacts within the operations um and the strategy of the organization so I want to acknowledge uh their work and really appreciate them for for developing this this initial um draft as as really more of a looking at the process going forward so um with that um you do have the backgrounder and um I would like to open up for ideas suggestions questions comments and I'll just turn it back to you president McCrae great thank you Sonia uh one thing that I just wanted to kind of touch on a little bit I know that we in some of the paperwork and such

2:23:38 have kind of talked a little bit more about the social rates piece and I just wanted to Define any other person I do here but maybe they're watching online um you know for me the the social rate piece uh means testing and and dealing with that is just it's just so inefficient I mean the amount of work that customer service would have to do on a consistent basis to make sure that we were somehow fairly applying that is um is inconsistent and and you know I worked for state representative Barnhart for a long time and we had to look at means testing tax credits and people are just very good at finding loopholes you know and so the I'm I'm happy that we are not doing this here and that we're being upfront about that and I just want

2:24:24 to nip um that kind that particular piece in the bud because I just don't think that it's the right path for us um so as we go through this process it's not that we don't care about our customers and the impact that our rates have on them that's not it at all it's that that particular method for it is so inefficient you know a number of years ago we looked at our customer service programs and we took away some of those kind of means testing pieces is um the the way that we were doing it because we were it was so much admin for the cost of it that we said it's just it makes more sense to just drive more money into that program specifically and will have a bigger impact and actually make sure that the people who need the money are getting it and so um when I look at this

2:25:09 process overall I I appreciate the pathway and how we're thinking about it and um that's one that I just want to consistently stay away from personally thanks yeah Frank thank you commissioner Carlson I really appreciate the sort of The Upfront approach that you're taking with that um there's some there are some administrative challenges to it there's there's other utilities that have done some of that that work um it's an ongoing process and it it is difficult to implement I would also say that from a long-term perspective it really opens up some potential for unintended consequences when you look at the fact that you're now charging a a consumption based rate based on who some who

2:25:56 somebody is their profile or what they're using it for and so um I think that's that's kind of a dangerous path to tread down not that we I think we can all think of certain um segments of our population that we would like to to provide assistance to um and um a programmatic approach I think is probably preferable um in the in the long term because of the what you stated and also this this um sort of dangerous tread that you can go down um based on who somebody is or what they're using it for one last quick thing if you go back to the the slide that has the triangles the other thought that I had

2:26:42 on this um you know the behavioral piece and the cost alignment are very integrally tied not that the social piece isn't but these you know the behavioral one actually feeds back into the cost alignment so you know when I see that that alignment and then the pictoral diagram I just want to make sure that people you know out in in the community don't think of this and say oh well we don't care about the social or Community priorities because the way that looks is like well we're cost alignment and we're Behavior alignment I think that the takeaway from that from my perspective is that those two things feed into one another and again if we are cost basis and we're trying to keep cost down we're looking out for the values of the community and those that are most vulnerable so it's not that we

2:27:28 don't care about that it's just that the those are the two target points for the the biggest impact commissioner Carson I would I would also and I think this is this is also to expand on what you're saying is that um if you create beneficial consumption patterns or behaviors there can be a mutual sharing of the benefits it is some of that should go to incentivize the person's Behavior but there is a portion of that that is then generally shared and some of that's programmatically with things that that do align with social and Community priorities so it's it's not that that one is excluded from the board and E web's um General values or sentiments it's that that doesn't

2:28:15 necessarily occur in the consumption-based rate itself so I think that's thank Mindy um so I very strongly believe in the behavioral piece I think it's really important that we um get customers to establish habits that are that are um going to help everybody in the long term but I just want to maybe counter a little bit of what Sonia said is the only only thing that gives me a little bit of pause or just I want to consider is that if you're a renter and you and you live in a house that's not weatherized or energy efficient it's really hard to take

2:29:00 advantage of some of these behavioral things especially like at a peak time or in the winter right like I can I can um invest in insulating my own home so that when we're having a peak time I can keep the heat down maybe a little bit not so much but if I live in a drafty house where I have no ability to do that it's really hard to say like you should you should participate in in you know kind of the demand side or um cut back during peak times and same thing with time of use perhaps and I know that we keep talking around about this around and around and I think every single commissioner and staff has expressed support in trying to figure out how we

2:29:45 can better serve our Rental Community um and I just I still feel that's a huge missing piece like it's basically it's it's wasted energy I I would I would commission commissioner um a couple quick points so we are doing this demand side potential assessment to understand the um the opportunities that we have in the community what the cost of those Investments and the return of those Investments are um there's a portion of the of the rental market that is is included in that and we'll see what the opportunities are directly for um Energy Efficiency conservation opportunities within that and and how we can leverage that that's also the most expensive

2:30:32 Energy Efficiency and conservation that we can do and um we have to really evaluate as an organization why what is driving Energy Efficiency work is it a cost saving measure or are we trying to save megawatt hours and therefore carbon impacts Etc and because those those actually could lead to different outcomes the really important part of the behavioral based um some of the the really critical decisions around behavioral based pricing models will be exactly what you described is that not everybody has the same opportunity that's why the sharing discussion is an important part of that so that you would get benefit whether you have the direct opportunity to do it or not you would

2:31:18 see some benefit from overall the organization going that direction so that's what what's kind of meant by the sharing discussion is is exactly that how much of it can go to an individual and how much of it is shared with the community and I think that's um that's going to be important part of that discussion and some of that I understand is shared with the community because if enough people can serve then we don't have to go out and procure more resources but also I mean it does personally benefit people who are going to then pay less for their bill so it's not just an altruistic thing anyway I I'm right that's that's exactly right and and part of the analysis there will

2:32:04 be and this is why it does it is a different I don't know if this is it's not a stool it's a I'm not what sure what kind of diagram this is um it's a different leg here because there are times when will have to evaluate how much of an incentive drives behavior and how much is that how closely aligned is that with today's cost versus a future forecasted cost that's that's going to be part of the analysis that we're going to have to do because if it's pennies someone might go oh that's not enough for me to change if it's dollars then someone might oh I'm willing to change there is a benefit who gains from that benefit so there's there's going to be some social

2:32:49 behavioral psychology analysis that we're going to have to do as part of that great thank you thanks barovsky and then Brown I'm coming to you next thanks and and I'm gonna add on to what Mindy said um you know when this first came up I brought up the the scenario of a restaurant that can't you know it's it's going to be using its energy during the peak hours so it doesn't have the opportunity to take advantage of maybe some of the the demand pricing and stuff like that and and the more I thought about that I thought well I have to build if I'm a restaurant tour I have to build that into my to my costs you know there's

2:33:35 times of the year where Roma lettuce is expensive and there's times of the year when Roma lettuce is is cheaper and I have to set my menu prices based on the overall average so as a as a business I think that I'm less concerned about that penalization you know it's not really penalizing but not being able to take advantage of the incentives as a business owner as much as I was when when we first rolled this out on the other side the individual homeowners don't quite have that because they can't set their menu prices right they've got they've got fixed costs the gentleman early was saying he's on to fixed the

2:34:21 income and he has that stuff so for me the balancing point is going to be how much can we raise the prices or lower the prices at different times to incentivize it without penalizing and and hurting people more than we want to that's going to be the really hard balancing point for me you know so there's people and businesses that will be able to adjust to it and then there's people and business and businesses that won't and so finding that balancing point that will help us move the needle on consumption but also not harm a percentage of our customers

2:35:08 that's going to be the the challenge that I'm going to look forward um and then I guess the question the other question that I have is you know I see I think we already have this type of demand stuff on our water side right if you use more kilowatt you know when I water my lawn in the summer that first gallon is one price but the 101st gallon is a lot more expensive um so we' we've got kind of a model of that already going forward do we see do we see that changing people's uh the amount that they water

2:35:53 right sure I I think that um when we looked at you're talking about tiered rates actually um and when we looked at at tiered rates there's there is a difference between the electric and the water side um the the tier is really designed to kick in when you're doing things that are non-essential consumption so um that's why they are set where they are now a number of or utilities have winter versus Summer rates for example they have seasonal rates um for for water and some in some cases energy um in many cases energy um whether and how we look at at tiers and what those are for on the electric side it became the the tiers were such that

2:36:38 it became a disincentive for electrification and some of the other beneficial things that we that we saw and it really was not a direct signal for conservation for example so there were there were some differences there um but all of those are things that um there are models out there that we can evaluate um if there's something where there isn't a good example we would have to take a look and is there some kind of limited evaluation or study or pilot program that we could do I think that's mentioned in the in the plan that we might do some pilot programs to just test whether the behavior is sustainable or not and so um um I I will point out your comment about there may be some winners and losers in this is how I

2:37:24 would describe it we do have a zero sum game this is this is about cost so we we are not arbitrarily taking someone and saying you're going to pay more and you're going to pay less it's going to be at some point linked in some way to beneficial cost and efficiency for the organization so um even though not everybody would have the Equal Opportunity the the goal is to overall uh use it to the community's benefit right and and yeah and I'm in agreement with the the board priorities I I think it's just going to be that when it when it gets down to the details the balancing of how how those are rolled out is going to be where I'm going to want to weigh in a little more great thank

2:38:11 you commissioner Brown thank you um I want to say number one I agree with what uh sonicing but I also strongly agree with Mindy um this makes no economic sense to me for us to continue to have to subsidize low income people that have really highly energy inefficient uh facilities we do it month after month year after year they're consuming more power that's costing us more to do why don't we just you know we need to help find a way to uh to uh to I'm sorry I'm losing thought to weatherize the rental pool so

2:38:58 we can uh stop it because it just makes no sense to continue subsidizing because that goes on forever until we stop inefficiency that's creating that discrepancy the it's just not ever going to end and we're going to buy more expensive so I I want to really push maybe when our next programs come up for next year that we figure out how we can do that we've been talking about it a lot but we need to start doing it we need to start putting in LED lights and we need to start putting in um you know T Pumps and things such as that to help the low income and uh stop having to put money towards it it makes no no economic sense to me so I like what's on the board and U like BR like U John B I'm looking

2:39:44 forward to seeing what the details are thank you thanks Brown yeah Frank one one comment commissioner Brown is the we will be looking at the cost tradeoffs uh in the and as well as doing a sort of a deep dive into the the capab I guess the the amount of rental capacity that's out there at what cost that's part of the analysis that we're doing right now which would inform um where we would want to make those Investments um I I would correct potentially your comment the use of your term subsidize um H actually if because we do

2:40:30 not actually absorb all of our fixed costs in a fixed rate what happens is larger I I'll say higher consumers are actually subsidizing lower consumers um because some of the fixed costs are um are really recovered through the variable rate and so I'd probably have to get on the Whiteboard to describe this but um um so a higher um inefficient home is actually not subsidized by their neighbors they're actually subsidizing their neighbors in that case and so um but your I think your point is correct we do need to look

2:41:15 at um overall the the energy the demand response um the return on investment for um for all of the stock across Eugene it's businesses its rentals and look at the return on what those Investments are I think that that is certainly part of what we want to do in this demand side potential assessment study thank you brown were you referring to the bill assistance program maybe is that what you meant by I mean yeah we we're given let's just say they we're given $100 $200 a month too and we do that forever and they're we up

2:42:00 and disparity keeps getting greater why don't we just stop that disparity where there their consumption is reduced to a point where they don't have to take that subsidy anymore instead of giving them that $100 a month we cut their consumption down by by energizing and weatherizing their home and they even though they don't own it you know we we do LED lighting we do duckass heat pumps we do whatever we can do and uh and we kind of look at look at it holistically I mean all the new low-income housing projects are highly energy efficient but yet they have people that qualify in there for uh energy assistance because of their income level but yet their income consumption is way low I would like to see just go into the existing inventory of older homes and

2:42:46 rent that are highly inefficient and uh and help that that group of people so and me it's a publicly owned utility we've got to help these people somehow and we're not going to be cutting rates anytime soon it's getting hard harder for me to vote to raise rates um so that's just my point yeah thank you brown yeah Frank this is really the the joy of of this topic um I I will say also this is where the blending of the programs versus the consumption based rates comes into play if if you only looked at this from the

2:43:33 mix of fixed cost and variable cost and you invested heavily in Energy Efficiency and conservation and yet you had a high fixed cost what would happen and it's historically happened to utilities is that you're now spreading your fixed cost over a fewer number of consumption units so megawatt hours or kilowatt hours what do utilities do then they raise their rates and so if you're doing Energy Efficiency and conservation to save money in the long term it it doesn't necessarily accomplish that um and so you really have to watch that mixed although it and I know I think I you you have to look at the where you

2:44:20 are spending your consump your variable rates uh your variable costs versus your fixed cost to really understand that issue because now you're starting to get into Peak demand and other things that can can have other cost impacts so it's it's it's a bit intertwined but don't have to increase the fixed costs consumption right I remember um I think a a former general manager who I I knew said that what's what's really interesting about this is that you have um very low variable costs but you can have really high incremental fixed costs

2:45:07 when you reach a certain point so um that tradeoff is if you're only looking at a at a base fix cost and a variable cost the the variable cost the marginal cost is really low right up to the point where it's really huge because you have to go build another plant or procure more resource so feel like where we're at both we're we're playing both ends of that at this point because we're talking about both the resource side and the consumption side that's why rate design is as an important topic for us right now is that we we had a whole discussion earlier on a a somewhere between a 2.4 and a 3 four billion dollar resource discussion and now we're talking about

2:45:54 consumption patterns so that's why they're both important at this point thanks um all right I'm gonna take a few minutes to make a couple of comments um we do get caught in the Trap of talking about rates when really people pay bills right and that's I think um it's actually one of the things I most appreciate about about the way we compare the price of our product is the comparisons of different um folks in the monthly bill for the average uh household income which is just really helpful as a way to make it more relev make the rate question more relevant to um our our monthly expenses um so to the extent that we can because the very Dynamic you were just talking about right if if we're doing a lot of Energy Efficiency

2:46:39 rates go up but also bills can stay the same or maybe go down uh depending on right depending on how we do it and I think um that's one of the things that you call out here on page nine of the handout we're working from is the programs that we already have for renters and low and moderate income renters in particular which is I think something it's like the unsung hero of eweb in my opinion is that we have these programs that can really do amazing things to exactly what brown was talking about right to retrofit homes weatherized homes reduce the total um energy demand in especially lower and moderate income and rental houses um so we these programs they're doing great work and I think uh it would be worth us turning those up to 11 and seeing like

2:47:25 how much can they do because I I suspect there's another increment of benefit that we can get by applying this more aggressively especially for renters who just may not know that these programs exist um anyway I think doing more there it would be a a good use of our time you know kind of irrespective of the that the the rate design in particular but more address addressing what Mindy and and brown were speaking to um I also think while we're talking about rate design and you make a great point about programs kind that are kind of layered on top of this that it might be helpful um just across the bottom to like remind us of like here's the different programs that are you know accompany our rates so that we can just to help us uh have that

2:48:12 conversation more comprehensively while I know we can't dive into the details of every program every time it would take forever it can just be like a placehold or reminder of that you know this doesn't happen in in isolation and you know some of the comments that we get um about the pressure on low-income households in particular we could say and right this program is is intended to help that and let's talk about that two months down the road when it's on our agenda um I personally can't wait for time of view PR use pricing we've been talking about it ever since I got on the board and it hasn't arrived and it's two years out which I'm a little bit sad about but also I can be patient mostly um so I'm going to be patient and I can't wait and I hope when

2:48:57 you do a test run that I get to be in the test group um maybe it's a leverage point that isn't as big as it seems but from where I sit it feels like a huge leverage point to solve so many or at least not solve but address so many of the challenges that we have both in terms of of costs but um you know just managing Peak all of that um we had a heat wve a year and a half ago uh two years ago anyway year and a half ago um and and we eweb asked people we just put out a message wherever we could and asked people to voluntarily turn down their AC because we knew we were going to be buying huge amounts of electricity on the open market and it was going to be a killer and we got this crazy rate

2:49:43 of adoption where people just like oh I didn't know and yeah I can turn down my AC a little bit for in the middle of the day even though it was a heat wave right and um Brian Booth did a little bit of back of the napkin calculations and I don't remember the number I have a recollection but I don't think it's accurate but the point was actually was a really big number he's like the amount of money saved by people just voluntarily turning down their thermostat was huge it was it was more than a million dollars so I think the conversation was around what the cost of capacity would be to predictably serve that yes and ballpark a mega lot of peaking capacity is maybe two million bucks right so yeah looking out that crystal ball again Frankie you

2:50:29 mind if I speak in the panut gallery I mean pretty quickly we're coming up on 10,000 electric vehicles in our service territory depending on what model they are they probably charge at 7 to 10 KW they all plug in at 5:30 six o'clock when they get home from work future that's 70 to 100 megawatts that by two million we're talking serious capital investment yeah if we could just get people to not charge right at 5:30 six o'clock when they plug in like that's all savings yeah it just seemed like there's a ton of value and benefit there to be gained that we just haven't tapped because our our rates haven't been set up that way and I I'm so excited to see what we can

2:51:15 make happen on a consistent basis to benefit both the customer and the utility and solve a bunch of our problems um that's all I have thanks one one other comment commissioner and just be respectful of the time because I know we're a little bit over um one of the things that that we don't necessarily refer to in rate design um but is kind of part of the bill comment I think you made is for example prepaid pro programs where um things such as deposits U and other things can be basically waved because you're dealing in a prepay scenario which which would tend to help people with with limited funds um I would also say that when we're talking about programs we are

2:52:01 going to have some discussion around the ECC program eweb Customer Care Program it's a pretty blunt instrument right now probably doesn't have the reach that we would like even though the intent and the basis for it is good so we're going to have some some internal discussions about how we would look at that and and make that more effective so all all of those things the programmatic things are not necessarily off the table those are going to be continually looked at as part of how we approach customers their bills um and what they're paying and and who can benefit behaviors all all of this sort weaves together great uh other comments questions did you get what you need from

2:52:48 us I I think so it the the subject and you know we had public testimony tonight we've received feedback it's it's definitely an impactful issue this is the opening to the conversation that's why we describe this as looking at different elements of rate design before we fully get into rate design because we're going to have to actually understand the the equities of it the the operationalizing of it love to do time abuse potentially earlier just for you um on the other hand we need to understand the impact across the board and and what those consequences are so and how we operationalize that so and we may put in different elements before that so we'll we'll see thank you yeah thank

2:53:35 you uh the next item is future board agendas that's I'll just right here there I don't have much comment on future Bard's agendas one of the things that we're evaluating pretty closely I know that um when we develop the annual calendar we look at certain recurring agenda items um unless there's aot a particular board action associated with some of those um just to keep us focused on the bigger more substantial issues we that we can take deeper dives into we may start pushing some of those to correspondence um we can still open up have questions and dialogue when

2:54:20 needed but unless there's a significant board action we're going to kind of take a look at at that mix so that we can be talking about things like rate design and BPA contracts and and some of these um issues um goals you know that that we be pursuing um um bench strength in the workforce for example and things like that so um that we'll we'll work on that and um work with initially the President and Vice President on on what those agendas look like comments questions on that I think that's a good idea I think there are some items the recurring items are starting to really become a lot and so I think it's a great move uh and and

2:55:07 as always I know Mindy's mentioned this and I've echoed her sentiment the work sessions are great that's a great way to break up um our otherwise long meetings to do a deep dive on something that really takes some time the other thing that's helpful I think for I'm getting the impression is helpful to Commissioners I know there's been some concern about this staff time investment but the two on-one conversations the non- Quorum conversations are very productive for staff as well and so um we may look for more opportunities to do that just to give Commissioners a chance to have U more of a dialogue with subject matter experts on different topics so it's don't worry about that being a staff drain we'll we'll monitor that but that's another opportunity we

2:55:59 have uh anything else on board agendas if not we'll go to board wrapup yeah Mindy I've already thanked you but um I want to thank you for also getting us out 30 minutes early on your last meeting so did you hear that brown excellent 30 minutes early um but also a huge thank you to you Rod there's not that many staff that we board members interact with but you are one of them and um it's really been a pleasure working with you I appreciate all of your patience and um your skill at explaining things to us and communicating and also you're just a really nice person so thank you very much thank you

2:56:54 um just an update uh last month we had city manager Sarah maderi come here and talk about the proposed fire fee um I obviously I've been following that that went that proposal went to city council last month uh the city council kind of paused on it said we're not ready to move forward with that uh gave the city manager some direction to come back with kind of a plan B um so plan B probably will start getting revealed here in the next m a little bit in the next week and probably the first part of January whether or not they pivot back to some sort of a fee or not once they see the implications of Plan B may uh may come out of this we don't know where

2:57:40 it's going but for right now the fire fee is on pause it's not hasn't been got the votes to move forward so the idea of us maybe partnering with them to collect it is also in that limbo stage I think at this point so I just wanted to kind of give the rest of the board a heads up if you hadn't been following that I also wanted to say thank you for leading the last year and last four years really appreciated it R I really appreciated your uh your work around the the Dei work and you know that you also pushed for that so kind of the resiliency in the Dei um work I just really

2:58:25 appreciated that and I think of those two items I so thank you and now my table is going to be empty be back to keep comp I promise new people yeah thanks Frank yeah I just want to thank Commissioners for I can't believe 2024 is is in the rearview are soon to be um I think we we accomplished a lot as an organization very happy with with staff and Leadership within the organization and then your guidance has been very helpful uh throughout the year um and um I'd like to say we're done but we're not done there's a lot on our plate um

2:59:11 heading into 2025 um probably for the next several years it's pry really critical per period for the organization a lot of Transitions and opportunities with that so on behalf of staff I just want to thank you for your guidance and and once again uh thank Mr price for for all of his work and partnership and and friendship um within the organization and we'll probably be on the golf course every hopefully every once in a while um so so uh thank him and and just wish everybody a happy holidays and a happy New Year thank you anything from you brown I'm good thanks everybody have a happy New Year all right I'm gonna take uh just a couple minutes I promise not

2:59:56 to take very long but um I do want to say a few thank yous before I head out um one first of all to my wife and daughter arrien Holly who had to deal with my absences during these meetings and other meetings and me being on phone calls and probably worse me ruminating about ridiculous things like electrification and energy storage and all these other things that I'm wondering at weird hours of the day so thank you for their patience um the staff here are remarkable consistently remarkable thoughtful skilled um and and extremely professional and and to a te I mean just I really appreciate the the caliber of work that comes out of this utility it's something that you all we all can be proud of for sure uh I want

3:00:42 to thank my fellow board members it's remarkable to work with a board that feels so functional I have seen so many that aren't and um even though Brown's on it we still were able to get things done and make decisions yeah you're welcome I know you're in Mexico and I'm still poking you in the eyeball from here um but really uh I really appreciate the work that we've all been able to do together and just the um the way that we carry conversations together and make decisions together um it's respectful and thoughtful and we challenge one another and I think that's it it's healthy and and um valuable so thank you all uh also thank you for the opportunity to serve as president I didn't know that that would be important to me but then you all said hey you're

3:01:27 not going to be here the next year so why don't you take president role and um so thank you for offering that and making that available it has been really valuable to me to grow and learn more about what what is required and lastly um I know you all know this but we have this huge asset here of a publicly owned utility and um it I I I I I think some of the people in our community understand it but I don't think they really understand it how lucky we are to not be a profit driven entity and when I look at the curveballs that are on the horizon I'm grateful to live in a town that really values a public utility and I just look forward to seeing this public utility continue to lean in and do the right thing and

3:02:14 not you know of course we're paying attention to the bottom dollar but not be profit driven and being doing what is best for the community um so I I really value that I Rue the fact that everybody at this utility understands that and has it in their in their bones um and lastly I look forward to seeing um continued investments in conservation and Energy Efficiency I look forward to those studies when they get out I am going to nerd out on them when they come I'm sorry um but I look forward to seeing what this board does with those um I think that there's there are opportunities to save money there um as well as with um electrification I know we've talked some about that there wasn't Readiness at this board to set a Target but I think there could be real

3:02:59 value and money savings by setting a Target on electrification and um as well as money to be saved by protecting um doing drinking water protection for the coast fork and Middle Fork um I know that some there something will go into that weren't ready to go there yet but look forward to seeing those Investments and commitments made in the future um that's all I have and also looking forward to Tim Morris stepping on to the board thank you for um for taking the position and and best luck to you I'm sure they'll treat you nicely um anyway thank you all much appreciated it all right you thanks John thank you