Springfield City Council — September 2, 2025

0:05 I'm going to call the Springfield City Council work session to order with roll call. >> Mayor Van Gordon >> here. Councelor Weber here. Councelor Mo >> here. >> Councelor Rodley >> here. Councelor Blackwell >> here. And councelor Stout >> here. Thank you. >> All right. Welcome back everybody. It is now the start of the fall and I'm glad to see everybody. I'm glad we all remembered where city council chambers were. Um we've got uh two items tonight. The first one is the review of the city council operating uh policies and procedures with Mayor Bridges Smith. >> Uh good evening, mayor and council. Uh welcome back. Uh so tonight we're here to do an annual review of your operating policies and procedures. Uh I have a PowerPoint here and so I'll bring it up hopefully.

0:51 >> It's coming. >> One minute. We don't have our screens up. >> Yeah, we don't have screens yet. No. >> Hey, look. If this is the only snafu we have on the first day back, >> okay, it's fine. We'll >> be fine. >> they look on. >> I guess we're working off of our iPads today. >> Okay. All right. Let's just keep truck. >> Get rolling. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, uh, the council has Oh, here we go. I knew it. >> But they're not on your screens. Oh,

1:38 okay. Okay. >> Okay. Um, if it's all right, I'll just get going. Okay. So, this is the annual review of your operating policies and procedures. These are the rules for how essentially you conduct your business. the most of the rules have to deal with the council meeting because that is the majority of the time that you're conducting business. Um, this is also a requirement of the Springfield Charter that the council annually review its uh policies and procedures and that's uh one of the main reasons why we're here before you tonight. Sorry about that. And then also it's important to keep in mind that these vary by jurisdiction. So they develop over time uh amongst a body and as that body changes or as um issues or technology change um then these rules

2:25 will also change. So what you may see in one uh jurisdiction may not be the same. Doesn't mean your rules are not working or wrong or theirs are just means that they handle things differently than we do. Just by way of review, uh in recent years when the council has been looking at their operating policies and procedures, the um main areas that you have, uh looked at and provided direction on and been revised have to do with the selection process for your board's commissions and committees. And then also really reacting to um hybrid meeting formats um and allowing for um and complying with state law about allowing for hybrid meetings and then addressing media at executive sessions. That's another uh reflection of just the

3:11 change in the times, how media has changed over time and how they attend executive sessions. Today, um I was hoping to focus the conversation around council reimbursements and that has to do with direction we received at the um previous council retreat to look at this area of your operating policies and procedures. It is pretty dated. It could use some updating, but since it has to do with reimbursements to the council, it does have an extra layer of procedure that I want you to be aware of as you're providing direction. So, um this is framing this discussion here. The first uh sort of button there talks about the charter. Um by rule of the charter, this council

3:58 um is reimbured for his expenses but is not paid or compensated. The um charter says that you can have a plan for reimbursements um and that you prescribe that plan and then that's what lives in your operating policies. Currently in your operating policies, there's a section about reimbursement, the types of things you get reimbursed for. The other um complication with reimbursements is that impacts public official ethics. So that would be uh prohibited use of office or conflicts of interest. The general um idea to keep in mind for that is elected officials can't vote to give themselves a financial benefit without an intervening election. So even if we're talking about reimbursing for something relatively small like a meal expense or parking, there is uh just an extra layer

4:44 of process that we need to be aware of to protect the council from looking like it's behaving when it has a conflict of interest inappropriately. And then the last area is really maintaining the public trust. And that's just making sure that the council is getting reimbursed uh reasonably for its expenses that it does um in the scope of its duties, but also doesn't take advantage of the public's trust in those reimbursements. So framing up that conversation, I just wanted to list out because I'm not sure that, you know, I know when I looked at this, I was like, "Oh, here's what they get reimbured for." So, and you can tell this is a little dated as it says you get reimbured for your long-distance telephone calls. But this is and postage. I'm not sure how much um mailing you're doing as a counselor with constituents instead of emails, but you

5:29 never know. So, these are a list of things that um you're currently reimbursed for. Some of these are handled as per instance. Like for example, like many organizations, we use the IRS mileage for uh reimbursement for mileage. But for cell phone and internet, it's a set amount. So it is a reimbursement, but it's set at a certain amount um instead of, for example, having to establish how much use your personal cell phone for your work or for your work as a counselor. Um other items in there would be parking, office supplies, meal expense. So this evening I'm looking for direction about if the council is interested in looking for additional reimbursement types. Um you know the

6:15 kinds of things that you are reimbured for are pretty typical of other jurisdictions. It might look at other jurisdictions. There could be things like um child care or elder care. uh sometimes those are uh included on reimbursements. Another question for the council to consider is to um increase or change the reimbursement amounts. So if you'd like a look at those set amounts, the um particularly cell phone and um internet costs, um they're at 40 and $45, which is pretty in the ballpark actually for that kind of reimbursement, but we could certainly look at that. um if you'd like us to look at developing a set method for uh the future increases. So for example, sometimes uh an entity will say, you know, we're going to

7:02 re-examine our reimbursements every 5 years and they'll be increased by, you know, some CPI or some kind of factor. That way it's not constantly coming before the body to make a decision about, you know, should our reimbursement be $50 or $52, you know, and then that really does avoid a lot of those public um official ethics issues in terms of the complications with voting on it. So that's something to look at. And then um you know I'm not aware but if there are changes to like just even the reimbursement process like if there's something that could make that easier or streamlined that would need to be in your rules that's something else that you can give us direction about and we can bring back options. I'm going to talk about one more thing and then see if there are any questions. There's also another issue that came up

7:48 in the meantime is that um there's been a new opinion from the government ethics commission which is the body that's the state body that monitors uh public official ethics. So, they issued an opinion this summer about meal and beverage um benefits, I guess you could say, for public officials. That would include elected officials and also employees. And that those should be clearly in your adopted uh policy for your compensation, which in this context is defined reimbursements are included in that. So, um, currently the operating policies say that you're, um, reimbursed for meal expenses. I think as a temporary measure that does address the

8:34 issue of maybe if you get snacks at a meeting, you know, you're over here um, like at budget committee often, you know, when there'll be meals there or this type of these meetings that are during the meal time. Um, but we probably would want to look at revising that a little bit to be more clear and more consistent with that opinion. Um, I checked with uh today to see OG has uh gotten a lot of feedback about this opinion and we've been calling it the cheese and crackers rule around my office, but um so they were talking about issuing a revised opinion that's not out yet. So my advice about this issue in the very short term is just to hold off for a little bit and see if they do issue better advice that we can then implement into a review of the

9:20 operating policies. If they're not going to issue that advice, then I think there's some procedural workarounds we can do to get you voted to clean it up. But I don't think it's something that you have to um make a really high priority at this point. But it is something I wanted you to be aware of and probably more to come with that issue. Um, and again really to emphasize that these are your rules. So if there are other topics that you want to talk about or things that you're wondering why they're not included or shouldn't be included, please let me know. I'm going to bring this back to you for approval on October 6. So you vote by resol by vote with a resolution to approve your rules so we have a record of it. Um so hopefully I have some information from

10:06 OG at that time. If I don't you could adopt them and then I could come back to you later. Um, if you give me direction about reimbursements, I can look into that information and depending on when you want it back, I can try and get some of it back to you by October or you can um ask me to bring it at the retreat or maybe during when you're in um session for the spring, whatever works best for you. So, that's the spiel on operating policies and I'm happy to take any questions or comments. Council Michael >> I just have a question on the internet and the phone reimbursement the 45 when how long ago was that set I guess >> I as far as I know it's been at least 10 years would you say

10:51 >> it seems like it just just the comparison to what internet >> was in existence before I got on counseling which I hear it's been a minute now >> so we can certainly look at that and get you some more updated information sometimes the league does a like a survey, they do it in 2020 to see what other jurisdictions do for that. >> Councelor Rodley, >> thank you. Um, I really like the suggestion around developing a set method for future increases. Okay. >> I think because in just my short time on council, what is this my fifth year maybe? Um, this is it just keeps coming up. It's like we need to revisit it and people talk about it in different ways. And even if we don't make any major changes, it would be great to gift whoever future counselors and councils are with some sort of a process by which

11:38 they're getting cost of living or or just just that we sort of hash that part out because we we might not get to a a any major changes, but having a process would be great. >> A process that would be like more automatic than having to come before you and say, "Here are the seven things." Okay. Yeah. Perfect. >> Thank you. Okay. Councelor Stone. >> Uh just we're really talking about reimbursement as opposed to actual compensation because that that's the whole line. Just refreshment. What would be necessary to actually change compensation? We would have to revisit the whole city charter. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> And that would take more than just a resolution by council that would take >> a vote of the public. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Um I think uh this is a really really

12:25 good start. uh when I look at stuff like long-distance phone calls, right? Like I am very open to you modernizing the you know and taking out uh extraneous um extraneous items to make it as simple as possible. Um I do support us having kind of an automatic uh adjustment. Um I don't know what the actual city administrative policy is, right? because I'm sure we provide reimbursement like so even if we tied to you know mirrored the the city administration policy that would be that would frankly be fine with me. >> Okay. >> Um the the mileage portion I would be open to an alternative process to doing that right because like and I don't know what the right path

13:10 would be. We may have the right process right now, but the the path that we, you know, we spend a lot of administrative time between the council and the city staff having to turn in, you know, mileage sheets to Frank to go, you know, that go to the same five places. Uh people are going to be shocked to learn. I drive down to city hall a lot. >> Um so if there's a simpler way to do that, I think that I I think that would that would make sense as well. Um, but just generally, I think just simplicity would, you know, from an administrative perspective would would would help everybody. And then, um, I think I'm open to you uh, researching the child care and elder care thing. I don't know that that's going to impact anybody on council, but like if you think about we leave these as a start to, you know, it

13:56 may impact somebody else in, you know, in the future. and at least having that information that if it's, you know, plausible, if you will, uh would help us make a kind of a a long-term strategic conversation. >> Um, and I think I guess I just had a one other comment about the OG, the cheese and cracker rule. >> Yeah, >> I'm glad they're weighing in on the issues of our time. >> Yes. Um, I think when we think about the new opinion going going coming coming down and I don't know how how much adjustment they're going to make, >> right? >> It honestly it is important to me to protect, you know, like citizens and the staff that are show like that are showing up for things like budget and th

14:42 those long evenings, right? Like if it takes you an extra minute to get our end of it cleaned up, we'll be okay, right? But like when we've got citizen volunteers coming in here, you know, for long nights, like >> yeah, >> we it's a it's okay to feed them. >> Okay. Yeah. So when I think when I think about the priorities that way and then I think the last kind of comment about you know the OG conversation is I would be interested in hearing from the um you know our lobbyist about maybe the right way to do is to to uh have some some feedback you know some some feedback or public comment about as they're because they're going through a new administrative rule you know process right it's just asking them to get a little bit more strategic, right, as

15:28 they go through like as they go through this because if they approach other issues the same way they're approaching this particular issue, it's going to create a lot of work for everybody. >> Yeah. Okay, that's good. >> And I don't know. Yeah. Like something about the law changed. I'm not 100% sure what it is, but if we just kind of help them get up and think, you know, at that 90,000 foot level, I think that would help everybody. >> Okay. Um, can I ask a follow-up question? So in terms of timing, I could bring the operating policies back to you in October kind of as is to say, do you want to improve approve them for now? Just in terms of your annual review, find out more information and then find a time on your calendar. Probably I'm guessing in the winter just looking at how the fall's shaping up for how uh we can look at reimbursements a little bit differently. We might have more

16:13 information from OG then anyway, and it just might be a cleaner time to revise. Does that work? >> That would work for me. Um, that gets us through the the requirement. We would will have adopted them this calendar year. Okay. >> Yes, that's what I'm thinking. >> I think that would work. >> Yeah. >> Is that okay? Okay. >> Okay. And just so I'm clear, um, look at internet and, uh, cell phone amounts. Um, curiosity about a and more automatic process to address reimbursements on a regular schedule, simplify, um, mileage. see about city administrative policy if that can be a way to approach this. Um, look at mileage differently, particularly for local mileage because counselors are driving to the same places kind of all the time. Research child care and elder care and then be

16:59 thinking about our volunteer citizens when they come in and help us for things that they don't get >> um sideways with the ethics commission kind of unknowingly. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I know it it it's a lot of changes. Some year it seems like we go years where it's just like nope, looks fine >> and we're just in that time. So, I appreciate the work. >> I think so. Okay, great. I think I have what I need. Thank you. >> All right. Are you ready for the uh to talk about your item, Nate? So, the next item is payroll tax implementation framework and council discussion.

17:48 Would it be helpful for us to wait a minute to see if we can get these screens working or do you want to just move in? >> No, I think we can. We're doing good on time, so we can give them a a couple of minutes.

19:21 any also check to make sure the recording's

20:38 So I believe we know what the problem is but it would require a reboot which would take about 15 minutes. So the question is we've got this uh power deck here presentation for you to have as a reference point for some of the conversation we're going to have. there's a lot of minutia um to a payroll tax. So, is that something you would like in front of you or do you have access to your CBMs? >> I I think I think everybody is looks like they've got it up successfully. I we'll be able to navigate this and then maybe we can uh if we're doing well on time, try to squeeze in the reboot between this and the regular session. And mayor, folks at home will be able to see it. They will be able to see it. Okay. >> Thank you.

21:41 All right. Uh, good evening, Mayor and Council. Uh, so just to provide a little background about tonight's discussion, back in work session on May 19th, um, you received the, uh, Springfield Fiscal Stability Task Force final report. Uh that final report had nine recommendations uh from uh from the task force. Um that conversation continued into a work session on June 30th. And in that work session uh you recommended that we bring forward a couple of those items for a future conversation in the fall. Uh tonight we're going to talk about one of those recommendations, which is a payroll uh tax. And I I want to say that there's a lot of of parts to implementing a payroll tax. So we're going to throw a lot at you this evening. And our hope is not to solve everything but to start narrowing it

22:27 down so that we have a structure that we can kind of start working with to get tighter estimates with. So from that task force recommendation um the task force recommended that a payroll tax be evenly shared between employers and employees. Uh that it be simple to understand and administer uh applied without tiered rates or exemptions and uh paired with guardrails to ensure transparency and protect taxpayers. So that's the context uh for the evening as we consider these questions. It's also it informed what we brought forward to you in terms of of options. So should you decide to implement a payroll tax, uh one of the more significant questions you're going to have in front of you is is how it's

23:13 implemented. Uh there's two options um to adopt by an ordinance. uh this would be the easiest approach and it actually aligns with the task force guidance. Uh the other option would be to refer it to the voters uh to go on to a ballot whether that be in May or November. Um I'm starting with this question not in that I'm expecting you to answer it at this moment but I want you to have it back of mind because as we move forward through some of these other considerations I think those will inform uh the decision that you make in regards to this one. So we can revisit it later if you choose. Uh we may not even get back to it this evening. Another decision point is going to be uh the rate. And I put forward one scenario on

23:58 this um slide that was considered by the task force um that was very early on um in terms of assumptions as we just started to pull information together and it was put together by our consultant from Eco Northwest. uh under that scenario. And I think one of the sort of focuses originally um with the task force was uh to implement a a rate that would be considered to be low to have a negligible impact on the typical uh taxpayer. And the number that they arrived at was 0.1%. And what they liked about it is it was easy to understand in terms of its impact, easy to multiply out uh and uh it got us close to the original target that we wanted. I think there was also a general feeling that it was low enough

24:43 that you could just choose to implement this by ordinance if if you decided to. Yes. And you're getting a little bit ahead of me, but that's going to be u both uh employer and employee. Um so the original uh target that the task force was working on was uh in addressing our structural deficit was uh $4.5 million. And that didn't get to uh uh our entire problem that we were trying to solve, but it got us a good start that would allow us uh the time to work on uh other potential solutions to our long-term structural uh deficit. Uh so with that 0.1 uh it was generating roughly uh 2.3 million and the

25:29 recommendation was a low rate that would generate at least a uh a net revenue of 2.3 million. And so, uh, with with the assumptions that we built into this rate and we took the assumptions, um, at least the, uh, consultant did from how, uh, payroll taxes were being implemented both, uh, across the freeway at the city of Eugene as well as at the state, uh, for some of the transportation taxes that they administered through payroll. Uh, and, uh, that included uh, what are called section 125 deductions, pre-tax deductions. Uh, we estimated those to be around uh, 15%. Um so our consideration tonight some of these assumptions there's really not a lot that we can influence on them. Um the 4.1% wage growth that is what is has been the uh

26:16 average wage growth from the department of revenue over the last 10 years. uh the administration costs um and I'm going to talk a little bit more about administration uh in a later uh work session uh but that would be uh in-house and we estimated that to be around $600,000 and then uh 75% initial compliance and this aligns with both the state and city of Eugene in terms of what they experienced in the first year roll out uh what we consider to be full compliance is around uh 90% uh and so if if based on that 0.1 rate implemented with these assump assumptions at full compliance, we'd be looking at an additional $500,000. And that so we'll we'll grow in even though the target originally was a net revenue of 2.3 million with compliance, we'll slowly

27:01 grow into what is our full recognizable net revenue. So with that, I'm going to pause and open it up to questions on the rate. >> Two people have questions about the rate. >> Councelor Stout, >> um mostly the administrative costs. Can you explain why those to me it seems high but can you just walk me through those? >> Yeah. Um so for the administrative costs we reached out to both the state uh and to the city of Eugene to get their experience and and we also um you know started conversations on the possibility of them administering this for us thinking that there could be uh economies of scale uh under both um um uh entities. if they were to administer

27:46 their costs actually um were coming in higher in terms of what their original estimates would be. So um the 600,000 is actually uh uh cheaper than what we might experience if we had a third party administer it. That includes uh the software um and that from Eugene's experience has uh been roughly around $250,000 annually. Yeah. And that makes up a good portion of that. And then we also factored in 1 and a half FTE. And we think that that would be in a typical Springfield fashion um scrappy yet doable. >> Any council Blackwell? >> Thank you, Councelor St for that

28:31 question because that was a question that I had on here. I was curious. I when I read through um the document, it mentioned that possibly farming it out to Eugene or Oregon Department of Revenue. And I was wondering how long so so it sounds like that came in later as more expensive because I didn't see that in in what I read before because I was wondering how long it was going to take to get this up and running with either scenario and if we were spending 600,000 to implement it here. Why would we then farm it out later like an intro? And you know, early on again, you know, this information hasn't been working on this uh uh since the June 30th work session. And so we continue to get better information. Um I didn't include the estimates from the city of Eugene and the state of Oregon in both

29:16 situations. They asked that these are informal estimates. Please don't quote us. Um and then again, you know, I kind of came under the assumption that well, they're already doing this. if they put us kind of on top, they're going to have efficiencies and economy of scale. And so I was surprised myself. Uh and so when we kind of looked at it in-house, I think one other thing I should add, even if we chose to go with a third party, neither of them would be able to meet a timeline that we're looking at that we need for us to be able to address our structural deficit. So we'd be looking at an implementation um of FY28 best case scenario, but possibly later. Uh and so even if we chose a third party, we may need to if we want to meet that implementation timeline that would

30:02 really address the deficit, uh we would have to do an in-house um uh preliminary. So then that got us into okay, let's create an in-house structure and estimate the cost of that. And uh we found that wow, it might be able to be done um cheaper if we do it in-house, in which case we might keep it inhouse. And is that an annual cost that >> that would be an annual cost and it would grow with inflation. >> Go ahead. Go ahead, Steve. >> This will apply to businesses within within the city limits. Of course, what about the urban growth boundary? >> So, this is subjectivity, which is who pays. And that's going to be another one of the uh decision points for you. Uh what we're looking at in terms of the easiest to administer that makes most

30:48 sense is within the boundaries of Springfield city limits, >> not the not the urban ground. Okay. >> Well, we don't have and I would look to legal, but uh we don't have jurisdiction over that area. I mean, we could only impose this within our own city limits. >> We should never mind. >> Councelor Rodley, >> thank you. I like the way you're thinking. um since we're I know we we've gone beyond the um tax rate and we're talking about the how. So when you are are anticipating those administration costs, one of the questions that I've had is there any technical assistance for the businesses um and maybe businesses are savvy but this is for you know some of them are small and maybe have never done this

31:34 before and so I'm wondering how do we support them which will help to increase our compliance which you mentioned on there. So I'm wondering do we have a plan for that? >> We have a plan. I'm I'm trying to avoid getting too deep into the weeds and that FTE would be layered in as we implement it. But part of the administrative cost is going to be education and that's not just a oneandone. It is an ongoing thing. >> Other questions? I think we're ready to keep I don't know going down the rabbit hole forward whatever metaphor you choose. >> Yes. And you know again I I really want to lay out as much information as possible and then we can come back and revisit things where you want to start making decisions.

32:20 All right. So another uh uh recommendation from the task force regarding a payroll tax uh is that it would have guard rails to ensure accountability and public trust. Um, we put forward uh five potential guardrails and I think uh these uh came from just research on other payroll taxes as well as really any type of of revenue in general uh where you want some sort of guardrail or limitation. Um so um annual reporting I think this one is pretty straightforward. Uh stakeholder input uh that would be convening an advisory group periodically to review uh the effectiveness and evaluate any proposed changes. uh rate increases, placing limits on how and when rates can be adjusted. Uh use uh restrictions on the use of the revenues. Uh and then finally

33:05 uh a charter restriction. Um on the charter restriction, uh this would require significant uh staff uh time and resources. Uh we do not recommend um um putting it into the charter, but that is something that we have uh seen in other uh jurisdictions. >> Okay. Are there questions or comments about about this? So, um I think I'll start just by commenting about the annual reporting. uh right like and we've done this pretty successfully with the road bond where we issue an annual report and what I found is that long-term it has helped explain what's going on to the public um by having a and I don't think those reports

33:50 are even very long like you know two to four pages that say hey there was a fund we did X with it here's some facts about it will go a long way to maintaining trust and transparency with the public go ahead councelor Rodley Right. >> Well, to that point, I I really like the idea of an advisory group. Um, but I I think I would want to be a little bit more specific around periodically because if we're doing annual reporting, I I would love to filter it through that advisory group and it gives us an opportunity to, you know, put folks on there that are going to have differing opinions and just kind of keep a close eye on it at least for the first few years. I think it would be really helpful. Thank you.

34:40 for you. Go ahead. Oh. Um, just I never want to see our rate go above Eugen. That's that's my my two cents. Springfield's competitive. It's a smaller city. Doesn't have quite the same overhead. I think it's important as a thing. If we ever see it as it's just in terms of a guard rail for what we're doing, I don't want to see it go above that. That's all. >> All right. Um Oh, go ahead. Councelor W. Um, another point on the advisory group. Do we have some kind of a thought as to who we would include in that group? It would it be folks from the task force or a whole different set of folks? Um, and do those if we do this annual review through that group, do we rotate that out? Just something to kind of throw out there as a thought. >> That's an excellent question. I think that's to be determined. Certainly, this

35:27 task force has a wealth of knowledge. They were the ones that came together with us. However, we don't want to burn them out in perpetuity. So, that would be something that I would want to discuss further first with council leadership and then with with full counsel if that's the direction you decided to take. >> Um, I think on the advisory question, there's really two questions there, right? Like one of them is we there's an important portion of using a technical advisory committee, especially from from a business owner perspective, uh, as we go into this, right? Because what we want to do is make this as easy as possible to understand. I mean, I don't even think we need to meet every, you know, every month, but trying to bring those folks that understand their systems and our business community to

36:13 the table and have conversations with while we're we're building this from the ground up will be a good um avenue to try to try to make sure it this is as low abrasion as possible. The other I guess the other piece um when I think of this program is going to have to live in different parts of our code in different places, right? So um as we go through these decisions, we really need to get to a a defined artifact so that people can look at and respond to it. You know, even if it some of it's going in the municipal code, some of it's going in the operating procedures. Um, I think that it would be a valuable uh a val

36:59 make it easier to understand all the different conversations that we're having. Um, I don't I wouldn't be in favor of a charter included in the charter at this point. I think we could probably define a process to def to give us a path forward in a clear way that exists in the municipal code. The charter is really to like it's just it is a great tool. I'm glad we have it. It's very com Go ahead. >> I didn't want to cut you off. I didn't want to cut you off there, America. Um, I was just going to respond to your thought on the charter amendment because it's very, um, once you open that door there, you know, there's a lot of things in charters that are dated and that you want to clean up and, you know, you kind of want to do it in one swoop because it's expensive to put something on the ballot. It takes a lot of resource time

37:44 for people that are looking at it, plus the education component of what you're trying to accomplish. So it can very easily become a very cumbersome and burdensome uh task to do. So while I think it's good to look at that as an option, it's certainly always an option available to this body. It's with the the usual caveats apply on that. >> Councelor Wley, >> thank you. Um and to that the and I was sitting here thinking about the section on the use of revenues. Um, and I I realize I'm I'm sort of of a couple of minds on this. One, I absolutely understand why the task force would want to restrict the revenues and how they're

38:30 used. And um and everybody's heard me say before, one of the lenses I bring is like 10, 15 years from now, future uh decision makers, if we restrict it too much, it might not have the flexibility where it can really be used to help to fill in those gaps that are happening um with our budget deficits. And that's going to look different probably in 10 or 15 years. So I just I think what I want is just more conversation around that. I'm not solid in either way because I understand both things and I think we need a bit of flexibility um because we don't know what's what's going to come down the way and I could see if we say okay we really want to restrict it from a few specific things that might be wellunded in other ways but also to provide some room for

39:18 us to to grow and not have to I mean this the downside now I'm rambling but the downside is if we're to restrict it too much then we're going to have to come back in other ways and try to look for revenue in other ways as opposed to having a little flexibility in one way as opposed to like we're gonna tax you in 17 different ways. So that's just I want to have more conversation. Thank you. >> Anybody else? Nate, do you have more content to get into before we just, you know, get totally off the rails here? We have opinions. >> I do. And I think, you know, you mentioned uh the advisory group and I think uh mayor you kind of split into two advisory groups. I think there's kind of talk about this idea of after it's in place uh uh advisory group that comes um uh together periodically and you know we could talk about you know different time frames for that but I

40:04 think also just engaging the business uh community and that's on the front end and I think a lot of the conversation that we're having uh they will have a lot of input on that. So, you know, I think one of the things that I'm going to want from this evening is continue to move forward with this and maybe that, you know, if we can get to a little more structure, I'll have something to engage the business community with. Um, and so where I go with that is is back to the rate. Um, and one of the big questions we have right now is, you know, under this model, we had pre-tax deductions, but in the CBM, I put forward a scenario that was based on gross wages, which means no exclusions or deductions. And that's in alignment with uh what the task force recommended. Uh, and I I

40:49 think another thing that it also aligns with and and I think was a top concern from folks is just fairness um as well. So, is that something that um uh we could maybe get to um a recommendation on this evening? >> Yeah, if you Okay, so go through the two scenarios again with us. >> Yes. So, under the scenario again, this first one uh is is based on what we've seen with the transit taxes with the state of Oregon and with the city of Eugene. They do what are called section 125 deductions. Those would include uh health and dental premiums, uh FSA contributions, uh HSA contributions, child care contributions, and then 401k

41:35 or retirement contributions. And so if we were not to allow for those carveouts, uh we would be looking at just gross wages. And under the gross wage scenario, uh we are estimating, and this is based on 2027 because that's the soonest, uh scenario that we could see an implementation uh of, uh we'd be looking at $2.9 million in net revenue instead of $2.2 million in net revenue. It would also be additional revenue of $400,000 per 0.01 if you were to look at uh a tax rate other than 0.1. Uh, and at full compliance it would be a adjustment of $700,000.

42:28 >> I have opinions. Um, and I and I think my opinions would be different depending on different economies and different times. At this point, just thinking about those carveouts that you talked about that are that affect the the livability of working folks. um knowing that we need the money and also like that's that's a that's a bit of a hardship. So my opinion would be to in to not go on the gross wages but to do this instead and maybe think of other ways because I know that we talked about how do we think about this revenue growth in terms of not an undue burden on any one particular population of neighbors and just thinking about the times that we're in and just additionally um you know giving people a little bit of a break on the things that affect the their livability and the

43:13 reasons that they're working in terms of saving for retirement or paying for childare or things like that. So that's that's one opinion and that's my opinion. Thank you. >> All right. Anybody else? Go ahead. >> I have a slightly different thought process there. Um I think if we're keeping the rate this low that on gross wages, I don't think the amount is that significant. And I don't mean significant in the in the way that it doesn't impact people, but I just mean like dollar amount difference. I don't think it's probably a, you know, big one. Um, it might be interesting to kind of know what that difference would be just, you know, just so we have that information. Um, but I I'm okay with

43:59 this at the at the lowest rate that we're using. So, >> go ahead, Nancy. I want to make sure that I uh word this carefully because I don't want to overpromise and underdel in this in this situation. But, you know, we could look to see if we could make an analysis about the type of people that would be more likely the the taxpayer rate that would be more likely to take these uh deductions. you you know and I'm I'm not an accountant and I don't do tax law but generally speaking when people have the ability to itemize at that at that level they tend to be higher income people. So you could make an argument that they

44:44 would be contributing more at a flat just gross without doing carveouts. and those that don't have the ability to itemize on their tax form, you know, it's it's it's basically the same for everybody, right? So, regardless of what your wage is, you're at that point 1% which is, you know, a penny on the dollar. >> All right. Anybody go ahead, councelor Stone, >> if we do the carveouts, is that a higher administrative burden or is it neutral? >> It's hard to answer that question. Um, you know, what I can say is is part of of the challenge we're going to have is just education, understanding, and acceptance on this. Um, you know, this

45:29 is where things went sideways for our neighbor is, you know, they wanted I'm councilor Rodley, too. I'm still trying to understand kind of, you know, I want to meet your goal. Um but you typically lower w lower wage uh earners don't have the opportunity really to set money aside and it is typically higher wage earners that are taking full advantage of these section 125 plans and so uh I think in Eugene they created carveouts for lower wage uh earners with tiered rates and so how we you know in trying to get at that simplicity to administer and understand is when we said no exclusions we're not you know because then you start getting into well this group wants this and this group wants that it can just snowball. We thought, let's just make it kind of fair, straight across the board for everyone.

46:15 Everyone proportionately uses city services. We're kind of at that lowest level of government where we all benefit from streets and public safety and sewer and we all kind of consume them in the same way. This idea of a flat rate to everyone without, you know, it got to that sort of easiest to communicate and understand. So fairness was definitely a lens of the task force and that's I think how they arrived at that no carveouts. >> Councelor Stone, >> thank you. I I uh I just want to I appreciate what you were sharing out there. I I tend to be on that kind of flat tax position and I think I would also reiterate what the mayor said about um the easiest that this is possibly can be for the small business is going to make all the difference in the world

47:00 because we do have some major employers. they they're going to be quick, but it's all those little guys. It's the 80% that's not as sophisticated with that. And and as owning and operating a small business, every time there's a new tax or change or anything else, if it doesn't automatically come from into it, I'm just, you know, oh my goodness, I'm I'm about to scream. The CAT tax for uh for example, the corporate activities tax that Oregon put out, there was zero direction. Zero. And it took us about a year and a half before we could actually figure it out. And until the end of the year, we don't know what we're paying. So, just having it really easy to calculate so that I know what what I'm going to end up paying um is way easier because clarity is kind at every step of the way on this one. But and so those are my two cents. Thanks. >> Uh councelor Mo,

47:46 >> I support the flat tax. I'm already paying to the state and it's a flat tax everything I pay every every quarter. Yeah. >> So, I think what we do, unless anybody else wants to get in here, is you start with the gross wages, right? And let's do a little like once we have that as far as an estimate, you know, do a little bit of stress testing and ask some of these these questions, right? Because we're trying to find this sweet spot of we need it to be as simple as possible for folks, easy to administer. Um, but we also do want to logic check our work as we go through this. and you know we're a long way from the finish line. >> So summarizing um can we continue looking at a 0.1 rate with no uh

48:34 carveouts or exclusions and start modeling and communicating that um to our constituency. >> I don't think we've had the conversation about the rate yet. We're about to dive into that. I think what you can what I'm hearing people say and is that start communicating simplicity starting with starting with gross wages with no carveouts and as a as a way to try to get get feedback. There's going to be something here that we don't fully understand that that communication back and forth is going to help flesh out and that's where the time uh that we have between now and implementation really really pays out. I think you so now I think we we dive into this question about rates right so in now I think the

49:21 question you're having is do you go talk to people more specifically about a.1% rate that's what started with from the task force right but you need direction to go okay this is kind of where we're thinking all right are you guys ready to talk about rates okay don't all dive in So it's 0.1% gets us how much how much does.1% bring us in >> um in 2027 if we were to implement it uh in that calendar year u we're estimating $2.9 million. There's still a lot of assumptions in there that we've got to dial in uh but we're looking at about $2.9 million. >> Okay. I will make one start with one comment and give people a chance to sort

50:06 of dive in. Um there's a couple of uh there's a couple of employers in town that are heavy telecommuters and understanding how our rules would impact them, right, could potentially impact what you know what the revenue estimate would be because once we learn learn more, right, we'll we'll get we'll get smarter about that. Um okay, go ahead, Council Blackwell. >> I I personally like the the point one. I I agree with uh the task force at keeping it very simple, an easy number to to figure out, you know, for business owners. I I like that idea. I I'm nervous to I guess start it too high with the same thought of we don't want

50:52 to start somewhere and then have to change it anytime soon. So, I'm just curious of what other numbers are thinking and also keeping it lower than our neighbors across the river, I think, is really important as well for businesses. I support the 0.1. >> Okay. I I >> I support the point one, but I I I do so cautiously only because I know we have two big things we have to figure out in one way or another, the fire department and the library. And so it's a good starting spot, but we but I'm just I I want to be really cautious about not, you know, cutting it off our nose despite our face. Um if if we're going to be looking at some of these big

51:37 things that may come up, it's really important to me that we that we have a sustainable long-term plan for this. So, but generally I think 0.1 is a good place to have the conversation start. >> Go ahead, Ken. I also support the 0.1% and I have concerns about you know five years from now is that 0.1% really going to um get us where we need to be as things continually change on us year after year. Um, so to me, I think it's important that we consider some build in a flexibility to allow us I we have the annual review or whatever that is, but that needs to somehow include some sort of a an opportunity to do a potential rate increase if we see things, you

52:22 know, down the road that are going to cause us to be behind or chasing our tails. Councelor Rley, >> I I think I I really appreciate what councelor Blackwell says because I think it's uh we have 0.1 in front of us, so it's easy to be like 0.1 sounds great. Um and I still I still have concerns um about how this is going to impact folks from different revenue levels. Just saying that because it's just a thing that I think about. I think that um just keeping that in mind and I also hear is it going to be enough? So I I think we need to sit in it a little bit

53:08 like I'm totally fine with going forward because the majority wants to look at 1%. But I just think we need to just dig in a little bit more to just be like how is that going to impact businesses, right? Um, and how is that going to impact individuals, particularly folks who are lower wage earners, because, you know, $50 a year is a bigger impact if you make $20,000 a year than if you make 120. So, I I have some concerns about that. And I'm totally hear the simplicity, but I want us to make sure we get it as right as possible the first time so that we can build on it and we don't have to wiggle around and come back. >> Okay. So where no I think I this is a really good

53:53 conversation. This is the detail we needed. Um so when we say a rate really you're going to take that and use that to do some modeling about and solicit feedback about really it's sort of penciling in a rate where right like so and then we'll get a chance to sort of ink in a rate you know after we get additional feedback. Is that is that fair? Go ahead. Yes, mayor. I think that this is our ability to be able to communicate to our uh community how will this affect me personally and we'll be able to demonstrate that that's you know because until we are able to answer that question and it's all just speculation at that point. So I do appreciate that. I I'm taking in your comments. Nathan and I are both doing so and we will compare our notes. But just one thing I

54:40 did want to uh highlight upon is councelor Stout's comment about you know we still have this doesn't get us there right we still have some unanswered questions with um some core functions in our city and the task force recognized that because really they began their work at a particular point in time where we still haven't had answers on other functions of our city governance namely uh the the fire department and how that is going to land. So, you know, knowing that we have to address this structural imbalance, we didn't want to delay the conversation further or the work of the task force. So, you know, we're kind of building the plane as we're flying it. And so, I appreciate that the council is willing to have difficult conversations

55:26 and being frank about we don't know if this is exactly right, but we want to put measures in place where we're coming back to the community and checking in with you and saying here's where we are. here's what what this is doing and here's where it's going. >> So I think my next question and is to the council if if does your opinion about the rate change if we sort of walked into this thing and said like thought about it like segments, right? Like that we like we wanted to keep the program the same for at least say 3 years and then come back and have a community conversation about it. Does that because I like one of the things I think we need to do for for the community is get really like whatever it is kind of commit to it for a little while to run it. But if we do that does

56:12 your opinion on the rate change? >> Yes. Go ahead. I >> I think that the more um the more we build in accountability that's definitely going to influence how I feel about the rate and the the feedback that we get from community. But I think accountability and whether it's at the whatever we're calling it, the task force committee and and the timing and all of that stuff is definitely going to help me get to a decision because I want to be a really good steward if we're doing something so big. >> Well, one will help us for a while because we have immediate immediate need the next year, but there's other things that are going to be coming at us after that. park district, school districts, this fire measure, whatever that's going to happen, they're going to be trying to

56:59 draw more money out of us, too, in some way. So, this will help for a while, but we need to find other ways to to support the city of Springfield. >> So, I think where I'm at is um is that that I think if we set, you know, obviously if something's broken, we got to fix it within three, you know, within three years if it's not actually working. But if we set timing to have to sort of check in with the community at a set time, that will help us discuss some of these other items because the situation's going to change in the ne like in the next 3 years. And that's a natural way to go. What's working, what's not, you know, what what else is, you know, coming coming in the community. The other thing I want to get to prior to um sharing my kind of

57:45 opinion about rates is I think also having clear guidelines on what happens with the funding and I don't mean from like effectively we're you know a public safety city but understanding that if it comes in higher than expected like do we change the reserve policy do we um you know what happens if it comes in higher than expected thing questions like that um I think 0.1 is a good place to go out to to the community from. That's where all the conversation's been up until this point. Uh the question I really want to hear from the public is I could get to moving another uh hundth of a point for economic development. Um but I think that is a question that we need people to provide some sort of feedback on and what that what that would

58:30 potentially look like. Go ahead. >> So mayor I'm going to ask Nathan to forward the slide to the QR code section and have that on the screen. Uh so perfect segue, mayor. We do have a QR code that we are using for our community to be able to provide feedback on the mayor's task force. We've um brought this out in other uh community engagements. Um when the chamber had a an event and we and mayor you spoke at that event, we had distributed cards so people could take a survey and talk about how they feel about, you know, whatever input they want on this. So, it's a quick survey and it helps um basically inform this discussion for you as policy makers.

59:18 >> Yes, please take the survey. We need to hear a lot of opinion. All right. Other questions that people have? Go ahead, Nate. Well, I just wanted to make a clarifying point too because if in speaking about this rate, I've I've heard different terms used and I as we communicate this outward as you communicate with your constituency 0.1 uh is actually 110th of 1% the way we're setting this up. So, it's actually 1 1,000th. When we get to the 0.01, we're looking at 110,000. And I just want to give you that scale of what we're talking about here because it can get confusing in the way people typically look at percentages and the way we're speaking about this. Could you provide you know and I know there's a ton of ask so put this in the in the med just some

1:00:05 points for us to on how to talk about it so that between as electeds and you know and city staff we're talking about it and using consistent language. The other thing, you know, we the where we're landing is really a fiscal stabil like is really a fiscal strategy. This is the city's fiscal strategy, right? Like and that's that's going to be the end product here. Go ahead. >> I just before we were done with this, I just wanted to say because I should have said it this beginning, but I I deeply appreciate all of the work of the community members, of staff, of the willingness of this council to have these conversations. I think this is such important work for us to be doing and I just just want you all to hear that that so much is going into it and I think that the process has been stellar and I hope we just continue with that.

1:00:50 So, thank you. >> Okay, so I think we've got to a starting point with rates even though you know a starting point with some additional questions that we actually want some feedback about. Um, where else do you want to go next? Do you feel you provide the feedback you want to around guard rails? >> I'm seeing some headlines. >> Let me reiterate what I think uh I've heard from council this evening would be to provide some kind of an annual report similar to what we do with our road bonds. I think that would be fairly easy to do. we already check in with you and talk about our general fund forecast so

1:01:35 we can talk about how this you know to what degree this moves the needle for that and then um Mayor Van Gordon wanted us to come back about having at what point do we do a community check-in above and beyond those annual reports so is that in in three years what does that look like and what is the information that we have there >> I think we're seeing I think we're seeing uh head nods. >> One final piece uh is subjectivity or who pays uh you know what we're modeling this on is uh uh where the business is located. Uh what we've also seen and that's similar to how uh Eugene is doing it and uh actually that might um how do

1:02:22 I say this be the most efficient in terms that we don't have overlap. Um, another way that we've seen it done, and I think it's the way the state does it, is where the work is performed, and that's where things can get um, more complicated potentially. So, do we run the risk of well, what like what's the strategy to make sure that a worker in Springfield or a worker in Eugene is not paying somebody's payroll tax twice? like are we going to have to sort of detangle like have these a couple exceptions out there or is that going to get us kind of a clean break? >> That I think will get us a cleaner break. >> Okay. I think the biggest interest that I have in that conversation is understanding that, you know, we've got to have a process when people have questions, right? especially going into

1:03:08 the first year pe like we're gonna find something that people are going to get surprised about and making sure that if you're contributing in you know you're you're not paying this payroll you know Springfield and Eugene's payroll tax. >> Okay and I think the last question is really that very first question and and I just want to revisit in that you know how it's implemented. I think we have good information to start um kind of moving this information out into uh the community and engaging uh the business community. Um I'm assuming you want to get more feedback from them in terms of answering that first question. >> Yeah, I my sense is like let let's what

1:03:53 we've done so far is let the public guide us here, right? And on this question about like what the implementation piece is is I think we just we gota we got to let the conversation develop and let and let the public guide us. Does anybody [Music] just for clarification and I think I asked this before matter of fact I'm sure I did but this the city of Springfield being an employer will also be subject to the employ employer and employee taxes as well as like the school district. Correct. >> Yes. Uh correct. So u that kind of um feeds into the no exclusions or carveouts. You know again if we look at the transit taxes for the state of Oregon they actually have an exclusion for uh 501c3s. And uh so I think you know again getting

1:04:39 in alignment with what the task force recommended. We're looking at there are no exclusions. So government uh nonprofits would all uh if they're located within um city limits would would pay the payroll tax. All right. Any other comments or questions? All right. Did you get what what you needed? >> Yes, I got what I needed. Thank you. >> Okay. Perfect. All the easy stuff for the first day back. Thank you both. Uh we're going to adjourn the work session. We will reconvene here in 25 minutes for a regular session. Now give us a chance to reboot.

1:05:24 The city Springfield City Council regular session to order with roll call. Mayor Van Gordon >> here. Councelor Weber >> here. >> Councelor Rowan >> here. Councelor Bradley >> here. >> Councelor Blackwell >> here. >> And councelor Stout >> here. Thank you. Could you please join me for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States and to the republic kind of a full house this evening. There's seats up front. I feel like I'm either the teacher or the pastor about, you know, feel free to keep, but there's

1:06:10 more. There's at least four seats that are up here, a couple around here. So, if we can make as much room as possible to get get folks in. There is one there is one time designated for public testimony this evening under business from the audience. If you are attending in person, please complete the request to speak card located at the front of the council chambers and turn them into the city recorder. If you are joining us online with a tablet, smartphone or computer and wish to speak either of those times, please use the raise hand feature in Zoom. The order of public testimony is as follows. Anyone in the person, anyone in person in the council chambers and then anyone who has raised their virtual hand in Zoom. Um, for the folks that are on Zoom, I believe we've

1:06:56 probably got two dozen folks on Zoom. If you're interested in public uh and testify in front of council doing business from the audience, please raise your hand. We've got a lot of cards this evening. We're trying to get a little bit organized. It would be very helpful to know if we're going to have folks wanting to call uh testify from online. All right. First item, please. >> Mayor, the first item is the consent calendar. >> I move approval of the consent calendar. >> Second. >> All right. You all could call a vote, please. >> Yes. Councelor Weber, >> yes. >> Councelor Mo, >> yes. >> Councelor Bradley, >> yes. >> Councelor Blackwell, >> yes. >> And councelor Stout, >> yes. Thank you. >> All right. Motion passes. Five yeses, zero nos. Next item, please.

1:07:41 >> Next item is business from the audience. >> Okay. All right. Um, as a uh on the agenda there there's 20 minutes allowed for uh business from the audience. I have 17 cards. So if you're doing the math of multiplying by 3 minutes, we are going to go over the 20 minutes. So before we get started, um we do need uh to talk about, you know, whether or not we're going to hold people to 20 minutes and then move on or if we're going to extend the time given how many people that are in in the in the uh audience. My suggestion would be to extend the time to at least 40 minutes and ask people to keep their comments to two minutes and that way we could potentially get away for get through uh everybody. Is that

1:08:30 >> Oh, wow. >> Yes. >> About to cue the cue our city attorney. >> So, I can um state a motion for the record and then um if you agree with it, you can just say move as stated by the city attorney. And I want to confirm this is um the time limit to two minutes and extending business from the audience to 40 minutes. Is that correct? Okay. Uh so I move to extend the business from the audience portion of the council meeting to 40 minutes with a twominut time limit for each speaker. I move approval as stated by the city attorney. >> Second. >> Yes. Councelor Weber. >> Yes. >> Councelor Mo. Yes. >> Councelor Rodley.

1:09:15 >> Yes. >> Councelor Blackwell. >> Yes. >> And councelor Stout. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Motion passes five yeses. Uh zero nos before I call the first folks. Um if we get to the end and do maybe and I'll maybe check in at at 30 minutes. We could ex like if we had one more card, we we can extend again. >> Definitely. We can do a check-in as you get close to the end and see where you are. >> Okay. Perfect. And how many hands do we have online? May we have one? Okay. I told you guys it would take us a minute to get organized. We've been away all summer and you know it's the first meeting back. Okay. So, I'm going to call two cards at a time. Um there's two seats up here. Uh and that way we can do this as effectively and as efficiently as possible. Um and then I will go from one person to the next person and then

1:10:00 I'll call the next two two folks up. Does that sound good? I know testifying in front of us is always exciting. Um, the first two cards are James Linger and Elliot Harwell. And there's a button on there. If it's red, you are muted. If it is green, you are you are live. And then we will go with James first. Good evening, Mr. Mayor. City Council members urge all of you to attend a showing of PBS's Free for All, the public library, an hour and a half presentation of the history of our nation's independence and the critical role libraries played in moving America

1:10:47 strongly towards a democratic society. It'll be a free showing at the Wildish on September 18th from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. I found it to be example what I feel has been underemphasized in the task force report about the future budget. Specifically missing is the recognition of the critically of of the your role that you play in only just the financial side of governing Springfield, but importantly the community building side and where historically libraries have played a critical role in providing and building a strong democratic society. Atlantic Monthly journalists James and Deborah Fallow's recent book, Our Towns, details a five-year, 100,000 mile journey across America in their

1:11:32 self-piloted small plane visiting small towns like Springfield. They did visit Bend, I believe, and Redmond, where industry has changed or left, leaving many struggling with economic hardship, job losses, budget issues over the past two decades. After landing, James goes to the city hall and to the chamber of commerce to assess the level of revitalization in their economy, and Deborah goes over to assess the town's library. What they found on main streets and in local libraries was a revitalization of community health and spirit. They found libraries filled with books, children's spaces filled with busy programs, maker spaces, librarians helping people seek uh technology issues, housing issues.

1:12:20 All of this with libraries responding to the challenges facing small American towns. and the Fowls write that the most successful small towns with well-funded maintained libraries had the best chance of their eventual return to success. Broadening our your spec perspectives of Springfield's future is critical. Please broaden your thinking and work to strengthen the library, not to weaken it. >> Thank you, Elliot. >> Hello, counselors. Um, my name is Elliot Harwell. I'm from Ward Three. I'm speaking tonight on the proposed library budget cuts. Um, I understand that the city is fa facing projected budget shortfall and that there are hard choices to make about cutting expenses

1:13:06 and increasing revenues. But over the summer, as I've uh dug into the numbers uh and how the council reached its decision to propose cutting $500,000 from the library's budget of 2.2 million, I have some concerns. Uh the council has presented the mayor's fiscal task force as being representative of all Springfieldians, but uh nine of the 12 members are uh represented corporations and six of those 12 did not live in Springfield. More to the point, these businesses seeing the writing on the wall did support a payroll tax, but only if it was a selfservingly low amount. Worse, their number is specifically chosen to

1:13:51 force the city to cut services. In one of the March meetings, a businessman who does not live in Springfield, whose family does not visit our library and whose children do not attend our schools, said the city needs to make a cut to demonstrate they are sharing the pain. This is unnecessary and intentional cruelty to the residents of Springfield. At the work session before this meeting, the city council heard that if they increased the proposed payroll tax by 0.02%. They would be able to cover the shortfall for the library. If they increased it to.17%, which would still be less than Eugene's, they could cover the entire proposed shortfall. As a final point, I want to say that the proposed payroll tax is supposed to be equally split between businesses and

1:14:37 employees. And currently the conversation is completely about representing business and interests, not the employees who would also be paying into this tax. At the end of the day, if we can't pay for a library, if we can't vis invest in sense of Pacific Pride, we don't have a city. We have a business park. Thank you. Our next two folks are Sheldon and Kai Fireside. And please state your name for the record and your location. If so, if it's in the city of Springfield, state your ward. Um, if you're not from Springfield, just saying that you're what city you're from would be would be appropriate.

1:15:31 And just hit the button until it turns green. Great. Hi, Rob Sheldon. Uh, North Springfield would be most accurate, I think. Uh, hi. I am a resident in North Springfield and I've been a software developer professionally for over 25 years. I'm here today because of Springfield's plan to install flock surveillance systems in this town. First, I want to thank the city for being more cooperative with public records requests than Eugene has been. And to Springfield's credit, this surveillance system is not yet installed. It's not too late to pursue another option, something that is better and safer for everyone here. If the stated purpose of these is to combat retail theft, it's hard to see why so many of these installations are planned for residential areas, including just outside our own home.

1:16:18 Flock was valued this year at $7.5 billion by its investors, not for their mediocre camera hardware or the freely available software they run. That valuation was entirely for the data they collect. They are gathering the movements and associations of millions of Americans and they have ensured that they can broker that data. This is not like having a cell phone in your pocket. Setting aside the many technical reasons that why that comparison doesn't make any sense, I am as of today free to leave my cell phone at home. With these devices installed across the city, I will no longer be free to travel in town without Flock recording my movements and then trading access to that data for money. Flock uses local police departments as PR outlets, repeating the same lies and halftruths over and over again against public objections like tonights that are happening across the country. You will be told that

1:17:04 everything is fine and safe because your police department has a contract that states that they own the data. This is a lie. As recent national news so clearly illustrated, Flock is able to provide anyone else access to that data at any time. They were doing exactly that for Customs and Border Patrol without the knowledge or permission of the affected police departments. Large legal firms and national journalists are currently investigating Flock. We have met with the ACLU of Oregon, the Institute for Justice, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and many more. We join residents and cities across the country that are working to educate public officials on how the system works and why it's dangerous. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, hi. My name is Kai Fireside. A lot of people are here tonight to speak out against Flock on behalf of marginalized

1:17:50 communities, and I think that's fabulous. So, I'm going to speak out against Flock on behalf of myself. Springfield Police Department has been very prompt answering our public records requests. From these, we have received the proposed locations of all of the Flock cameras. This includes two of them on the roundabout at the Hayden Bridge and Pioneer Parkway. There will also be devices installed at the other end of Hayden Bridge. I live on Hayden Bridge. I cannot go home or leave home without being on camera. There are several more going up at Gateway, which means you will be filmed if you go to Riverbend Hospital. There are a number of other healthcare facilities there, including one that is well known in the queer community for providing gender affirming care. This is the facility that I go to for gender affirming care, and I no

1:18:35 longer have a way to get there without being filmed. That footage is then handed over to a private company. This private company does not need to know when I go see any doctor. It's not just Springfield Police Department and this private company that get access to the footage. Springfield Police Department will be sharing with over 60 other agencies, including many agencies that are outside of Oregon. Agencies in Nevada, North Carolina, Texas, Florida, Tennessee. There's a distinct nonsuary state pattern here. There is a red pattern here. These are the kind of people that come after my immigrant father or my queer self. There are a lot of cities that are experiencing lawsuits related to flock

1:19:20 right now. And I'm sure we could find better way to spend Springfield's money than fighting flock lawsuits. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. The next two folks are Cameron Stringfield and Daniel Aera. One second. I think we're still waiting on Daniel here. Is Daniel still here? This won't be the first time I I get a last name right. Thank you for your patience. Go ahead.

1:20:07 >> All right. Uh my name is Cameron Stringfield. I'm an organizer with the Party for Socialism and Liberation. Uh I live in Eugene, but I work as a caregiver with a few clients in Springfield. I have to drive around both cities with my clients to get them to the places they need to go. So, I'm constantly going back and forth from Eugene to Springfield and passing many flock cameras while doing so. In Eugene, 57 plus flock cameras have already been installed and are active and rolling. The Eugene Police Department never solicited any public input or governmental oversight before installing this system with our state taxpayer dollars. Neither did the unelected city managers when they decided to approve the contracts for these cameras. So, now I am recorded everywhere I go and I can't opt out of it and and I get no say in it. I am appalled and disgusted at

1:20:52 this move by our local government officials. And as a socialist organizer, very active in protests locally, as well as a transgender woman, this system scares me. While I have been canvasing in neighborhoods of Eugene and Springfield, talking to people from all backgrounds and identities, I can tell you that almost nobody wants this system. This AI powered mass surveillance system is inherently intrusive and dangerous and unconstitutional and it is in the public interest to terminate the contract with flock safety, which is what I ask you to do. It is entirely okay to admit that mistakes were made and to reverse course and not install this system. That would actually build trust with the community. you're in a unique position to stop this system from being installed rather than

1:21:37 having to spend additional resources to uninstall it. Thank you for all you do and I hope that you listen to your community members. And I would also just add there will be a rally against mass surveillance at the Eugene City Hall this weekend. I encourage you all to show up and listen to your community members who say no, we do not want to be surveiled. We need services, good education, good healthcare, and all of that stuff that actually helps to prevent crime, not more corporate mass surveillance from a corporation that doesn't have the same values we do. Thank you. >> Thank you, Daniel. >> Good evening, Mayor and City Council. My name is Daniel. I'm the vice president of the International Association of Firefighters, Local 851. I'm a proud graduate of Springfield High School, class of 95. After high school, I joined

1:22:22 the US Army and I took an oath there to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I later took another oath with the Eugene Springfield Fire Department to protect the citizens Eugene and Springfield. I take that oath seriously. It guides every decision I make, but it's getting harder and harder to uphold that oath every year. When I look on this room tonight, I see leaders. I see leaders who care about this great city. I see leaders who have learned to make decisions in tough times. Among me are my fellow firefighters here. We are all public servants at our core. We are here tonight because our system is broken and it puts our community at risk. When I started my career at June Springfield Fire, the job looked very different. We would run between 3 to 10 calls in a shift. We had time to go out and study buildings, fire protection systems, and pre-plans. That way, when time came, we could act faster. Now, many of our

1:23:07 engines and ambulances run twice as many calls daily. Sometimes I'm left with impossible decisions like choosing whether to pull the paramedic off the fire engine to upstaff a basic life support ambulance into advanced life support engine ambulance. That leaves the community that that engine would normally be protecting at risk while going to the hospital. That is not acceptable. Let me be clear. Response times are increasing. Fires double in size every minute that they are left unchecked. We often have less than 10 minutes to perform our firefighting safety or function before it is unsafe to do so. We have even less time to save someone trapped. This is life and death. In Springfield in 2002, you had firefight one firefighter every 3,625 residents. Currently, you have one firefighter for every 4,199.

1:23:53 Springfield continues to grow and the firefighters have been growing along with the community there. And now in FY26, we're talking about brownouts, but let's be clear, that means a fire station is closed for the day. That is unacceptable for that community there as well. I'm not here to point fingers. I'm here to offer solutions and a fire district is a great solution. We need your help. We need your leadership. We need a fire district. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. The next two folks that I have are Mike McFarland and Joe Brookie.

1:24:41 Good evening, mayor and council. Uh, my name is Mike McFarland. I'm speaking to you today as a homeowner in Steve W, Steve Moe's ward, ward 2. Um, full disclosure, I am the communication specialist for the firefighter union 51, but today I am speaking as a citizen. Um, my my testimony was three minutes. I have to chop it all up. It's not really going to make a lot of sense to you. So, I'm I'm going to give you the highlights the best I can. I'll email it to you and I hope you guys will read it. Um, we are looking at um three options for our our fire governance. One being a merger um dissolving the merger and

1:25:26 going back to two fire departments. the creation of which is um essentially one um city contracting with the other and the other one um that basically was not discussed or researched was a fire district. The reasoning for that not being in the discussion was twofold. One was uh property cra property tax compression which um right now we don't have the the data available. were waiting for Springfield to come throw forward with their numbers and also Eugene. But the other one is the most concerned to me and that is that it's political. I believe this this council's biggest job is public safety and when we bring

1:26:12 politics into public safety, I think we have a concern as a as a city. This is um we we have um and this is where I have to skip around. I'm sorry. Um we we basically have um asked to be that that table. Um we have been met with nothing but resistance. Um we have tried to talk to counselors and we've had this the city attorney write them letters saying they can't talk to us. And I am out of time which is really too bad. I'm sorry. Thanks. Thank you. >> If you send it to us, we will definitely read it. Yeah. Go ahead, Joe. >> Joe Brookie. Uh, welcome.

1:26:59 >> Joe Brook, >> you got to hit the button right next to Perfect. You're on. >> First time up. Very nervous. Joe Brookie. Uh, ward 2 Springfield. I live on uh first place uh off of Pioneer Parkway and Centennial. My parents bought that house in 62 brand new. Uh I I now am the homeowner for it. Uh as many of you that have been around Pioneer Parkway and Centennial and uh see how busy it is and how much uh uh uh traffic that is going through there. Uh

1:27:45 and I am going to the firefighters are here. I was talking to them. They are what we want is a soundwall our neighborhood an 8ft soundwall uh running from first street around Pioneer Parkway. uh the noise of the sirens and there are many these people are very busy and we we are our are um sitting in my what I would like to do is I'll just put it this way sitting in our backyard it it is you can hardly have a conversation counselor uh Mo came and sat with us uh on a Sunday afternoon and and He was

1:28:31 like, "Whoa." And and my neighbor said, "Yeah, you ought to try it at 5:30 in the a in the afternoon. I invite all of you to come to my house, sit in my backyard at 5, 5:30, whenever, whatever day, and and just listen and see what my neighborhood has to put up with." Um, and that's that I I'm done. I don't know what else to say. Thank you. >> Thank you, Joe. Joe, um, we're going to go through like 15 cards and get stuck about around three issues. You have a really specific issue. There's a gentleman in the back named Jeff Pascal. Jeff, raise your hand. Um, if you go chat with him, he should be able to kind of guide you on, you know, who to engage with. Uh, we're

1:29:17 going to tap in staff right a minute. Thanks for helping, Jeff. We're after 10 more cards, we would have forgotten about Joe. Uh Barrett Corpari first. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Uh before I start, uh Michelle Weber, um I'm in your ward, ward one, 2881 Fifth Street, Springfield. happy homeowner there. Uh, mayor and council, my name is Garrett Corbari. I stand before you or sit before you rather tonight representing the men and women of Eugene

1:30:03 Springfield Fire Local 851. It is my sincere hope that most of you on this council recognize and understand the acute challenges we face here in Lane County. from uh increased pressure of wildland fires breaching our city limits to the rapid development of high-rise uh buildings to accommodate our housing shortage or let's not forget the unhoused population often fighting the scourge of addiction. All of these challenges are difficult to manage on a good day. But I'm here today to share with you we don't see many good days and it has been this way for years. We are restrained by organizational paralysis, two councils, two budgets which are

1:30:49 continually underresourced and too many opinions on how to run a comprehensive fire department. I do not ask for permission but rather demand a real solution, a longl lasting change so we can ensure firefighting and emergency medical services remain accessible and equitable for the people of Eugene and Springfield. The time is now to trust this union body in supporting the formation of a fire district. The data supports it. It's been proven to be successful model elsewhere. So, we're not breaking new ground here. We're asking for the capability to serve your constituents so they can feel safe in their homes. Our paramedics, our EMTs, and firefighters are incredibly dedicated to ensuring the

1:31:35 safety and well-being of this population. We are asking you to trust us and to hold true to your sworn word as a council and to complete the merge that we started in 2010 so we can serve the citizens of this fine county. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you Brett. >> Good evening everyone. Mayor, city council, city manager. My name is Brett Dean and I'm a proud and I'm the proud president or proud to serve as president of Local 851 and of the International Association of Firefighters representing over 350 firefighters and EMS personnel across Lane County. I'm also a resident of Ward 5. Earlier this summer, a fence fire broke out. Normally, an incident quickly handled by a nearby engine, but that fire didn't see water for 11

1:32:20 minutes. In that time, it spread from a fence to a tree to a shed and then to a house, threatening nearby structures. Why? Because the first in engine was shut down to staff and ambulance. The system was out of medic units. The engine that finally arrived, engine 14, is the same one slated to be browned out later this fiscal year. Despite being first into three second alarm fires this summer alone, including three civilian rescues, I've had the opportunity to sit down with some of you to discuss these risks. We may not all we may not all agree on the endgame, but we must agree that inaction has consequences. For nearly 30 years, study after study has pointed to the same solution, the creation of a fire district for for Springfield and Eugene. This is not

1:33:06 untested. It's proven model across Oregon. A district provides stable dedicated funding, clear accountability through a locally elected board, operational efficiency, removing duplication and boosting effectiveness, and long long-term strategic planning. We were supposed to go through three phases in this merger. Phase one, operational blending, success. Phase two, functional merger. We started off with that successful so far. But we never moved on to phase three. Phase three was one department, a unified department. We what looks like one department to its residents today behind the scenes is a fractured system and increasingly a dangerous one. We don't need more examples of community being at risk

1:33:52 because of political inaction. Help move Springfield forward. Help move ESF forward. Help move our public safety forward. Support a fire district. Thank you. >> Thank you. The next two people I have are Curtis Blankenship and Seth May. >> Hi, I'm Curtis Blankenship. Thank you. >> There you go. >> Chris Blankship four. Is that working? It is working. We're on. Um, so I recently talked to you about um using tax incentives to encourage the

1:34:38 commercial the vacant commercial properties in Glenwood to be used for temporary shelter for the homeless. And you referred me to your development plan. So I went through that and um I'm a sustainable designer. I have an AA degree in sustainable design. I've studied it for over 30 years. I just went down to LA for 3 months and I can tell you that your plan through no fault of yours, but since the pandemic, the the online, you know, the brick-andmortar businesses have changed to online businesses. So, you're So, there's a bunch of malls down in the uh Century City Mall down in LA is practically empty. The Burbank Mall, they're empty. These these models aren't working anymore. And as you know, that your funding is being cut. So that's why I'm saying, can we just turn um and there's a glut of commercial property in

1:35:24 all these all these cities. Um San Diego, too, is having problems with uh funding this stuff. So could we could we change that area into a temporary community uh with community gardens and an art space and some temporary shelter in that in the Glenwood area while you guys are, you know, it's going to take you 5 years to get this thing even if you have a buyer. uh it's going to take you five years and you're more likely to get an investor if you show them that you've you've managed this this area that has been been like that literally since I've been coming up here since in 1985 it's been that way and um you know your reply to me was the last time I said this that one of one of I don't know who it was but somebody said that uh pro that you can't tell property

1:36:10 owners what to do and that and that in capitalism you can do whatever you want with your property and I'm sorry but that's not true and you can go to you can go to the Uvo and find this out. You uh what you would do in capitalism is you would lower your rent until those those vacancies are filled or you would do something like I'm saying right now until the the uh economy changes. Thanks for your time and all your great work. >> Thank you. You're it's off. There you go. You're on. Perfect. >> All right. Good evening, mayor and counselors. My name is Seth May. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I'm here to urge you to reject the installation and use of automated license plate readers, including block systems. At the core is privacy. Privacy is not secrecy. It's the ability to

1:36:56 live, move, and associate without being cataloged by the state. I need privacy not because my actions are questionable, but because the intentions and actions of the government are ever changing and subject to misuse. A network that logs where we drive and when at scale and over time builds a dossier on ordinary people that chills speech associations and daily life. Some call cell phones some say that cell phones and social networks uh already track you. The critical difference uh is that corporation uh their data is a commercial relationship. You can choose not to use the platform, limit permissions or delete an account. Government surveillance is coercive. You cannot opt out of driving to work, the doctor, or your place of worship. And

1:37:41 when the government collects data, it sits next to the power to detain, prosecute, and punish. That's why constitutional protections exist to restrain state power. If you want my data, come with probable cause and a warrant. These surveillance technologies invert the presumption of innocence by treating everyone's movements as evidence to be stored just in case. They create real risk. False hits lead to dangerous stops. Breaches expose sensitive travel patterns. And changes in leadership result in the misuse of data in ways that it was not originally intended. Public safety requires tools that are targeted, accountable, and effective. Broad suspicionless surveillance is none of those things. Instead, our communities need to invest in measures that are proven to reduce harm and not

1:38:27 to treat every person like a criminal to be tracked. I'm asking you to declare an immediate moratorum on um license plate readers and to remove any units already in place. Protect due process by requiring case specific warrants, not dragnet data collection. Thank you. >> Seth, before you go, can you uh tell us what uh of Springfield you're from? >> I'm from Eugene. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Travel. And we appreciate it. We just we ask that of everybody when that comes up. uh Cole Thompson and Heather Horta.

1:39:19 >> Um I live in Ward 2. I live on the southwest corner of Centennial and Pioneer Parkway. and street noise has become a very prevalent problem there um with traffic noise which has resulted in the loss of sleep and no ability to even enjoy your backyard. Um I no longer can hold conversations with friends. I had my dad over the other day. We had to move inside because we couldn't we couldn't talk. Um I've also witnessed people defecating on the other side of my fence line. So, I'm asking the city uh to fund a soundwall along these streets that would result in the reduction of noise pollution and it would also offer us some privacy from the defecating that is happening on the

1:40:04 other side of my property line. Thank you. >> Thank you, Heather. >> I'm already on. Yeah. >> Uh good evening, mayor and counselors. My name is Heather Malera. I live in Springfield outside of city limits in the hole in ward one. I'll try to keep my comment brief. I just wanted to share um as a library supporter and as an educator um as we get back to all things schoolish um just to share how much the library offers that uh supports folks like myself as a teacher and that supports our students as learners. Um, of course we have FEess for every student a library. Our partnership with the Springfield School District that provides library cards for students and

1:40:50 teachers who live within Springfield school district limits but outside of city limits. Um, which is a lot of folks. But our library supports Springfield teachers and students in so many other ways as well. I recently had a conversation with our youth librarian regarding the work she is doing, making sure we have plenty of highquality decodable books for our beginning readers. And by high quality, I mean they follow an appropriate scope and sequence and they tell a good story and they're beautifully illustrated and it's really hard work to find books that tick all those boxes. Um, additionally, she's ordering more decodable books for our older dyslexic students, which is an even bigger undertaking. And, uh, this shift is

1:41:35 following a shift that the school districts are making, that the whole state of Oregon, in fact, is making, um, to follow the science of reading, uh, particularly for our dyslexic students. Heading into October, which is dyslexia awareness month, I really appreciate the tremendous growth I've seen in not just awareness, but genuine support from the Springfield Public Library over these past years. Um, appreciative but not surprised. As with leading the charge on FES, our library has consistently shown their primary concern is service, and they will fill any hole that they can. I hope that city council considers all of the services and supports the library truly provides as you consider the

1:42:22 proposed budget cut and I appreciate your time. I will say I also we have friends we hang out with on Third Street where it backs up to Pioneer Parkway. It is really loud. >> Thanks Heather. Uh, Matthew Carter and Sean Maxwell. >> All right. Good evening, uh, mayor, city council members. I'm in ward two. Uh, bought my first home out there in

1:43:07 Thirstston area. Um, disabled veteran, 23 years of army and it was my first house and I love it. Yes, I live next to 126, so I know it's the traffic is loud, so that's nothing compared to what they're going through. Um, I guess my issue I feel is minute compared to what I've heard so far, but I'll still do it. Um, I believe I spoke with Steve Mo on the um the issue I'm having with some pro some rental property owners that basically don't care about their property outside, especially like the yard. Um, I've dealt with this property owner. I've emailed him several times and uh for one instance, he has some decaying and dying cherry trees that

1:43:54 almost cuz I walk my dog every day. almost came down and hit me and my dog. I emailed him. He says, "Walk on the other side." I'm like, "Uh, it's a public sidewalk." So, he finally, after numerous times, he finally did something, took it down. Now, one of his residents is not taking care of the lawn. And the other neighbors, they they couldn't come cuz, you know, they work. I'm retired, so I can come. But, uh, I would request that the city bring back I believe there's a city ordinance where if the property owner doesn't, um, take care of of their the lawn, then you send I believe you send a yard crew out and then you char you send the bill to the property owner because this brings down our property values of our

1:44:39 house. And I'm getting up to refinance my house. Appraiser is going to come out and I don't want him to see that cuz that affects the whole neighborhood. So I that's the only thing I would like to do. Thank you. Thank you. >> Uh my name is Sean Maxwell. I'm in Ward 3. I'm here to speak in support of the flock cameras. Just kidding. I'm here to speak uh on behalf of concerned Springfield residents who oppose the installation of the 25 cameras license plate readers in our city. Surveillance is meant to enhance safety, but unchecked. It threatens our fundamental right to privacy. These cameras operated by a private company collect millions of license plate scans every vehicle, every location, at every

1:45:26 moment, creating a searchable database of our everyday moments and movements. While Flock promises they don't identify individuals by race or gender, critics note the company's data sharing practices remain opaque and unregulated. Just this summer, alarming evidence emerged. Flock had collaborated with Homeland Security via pilot programs. Even though oversight was woefully lacking, as a result, a state audit and raised legal concern led to these programs being paused. Communities across the nation are acting. In Evston, Illinois, deact they deactivated all 19 cameras and are terminating their contract early, citing troubling audit findings and unauthorized data sharing. Also in Oak Park, Illinois, they voted

1:46:11 to outright cancel their contract, calling it a necessary step to uphold democratic values and protect residents from surveillance overreach. Closer to home, Senator Ron Widen secured a deal ensuring that the data from flot cameras in our state cannot be used for any abortion or immigration related searches by outofstate agencies. Um, if the council insists on permitting the camera installations to continue, um, I would ask for oversight and uh, accountability, how many police officer positions or investigative hours will be cut or reduced because the cameras are taking over their work? How will this cost savings be reflected in the police budget rather than simply layering surveillance costs on top of current spending? Thank you.

1:46:56 >> Thank you. All right, I'm going to do we've hit the time where we're going to do a little bit of a checkin. I have got four more cards, it looks like. And how many people? >> Three online, Mayor. >> So, we got Okay, I'm seeing head nods. All right. Uh, the next two people are Ron, I'm sorry, Robin uh Mayor and Glennhouser. Hi, mayor and counselors. Thank you for your time. My n name is Robin May. Uh I live near Ward 4 off Jasper Road in

1:47:42 South Springfield. Um, I'm here today to ask you to do a bold and courageous thing and cancel your contract with Flock Cameras, the mass surveillance company that is um, currently poised to go into our community. I have worked in technology for four decades, including software engineering, database administration, analytics, cyber security, infrastructure, and even on machine learning tools themselves. I am not at all opposed to the judicious use of technology. But with the increased power and speed of data sharing and analysis that AI brings to the world comes increased responsibility for safeguarding the p personal information of your citizens. These community members here of Springfield. There are

1:48:27 many problematic red flags in the way flock data can be exposed. Others have talked to some of these including miscatategorization of searches by other law enforcement entities. integration of Flock license plate reader data that is planned with data sourced from a variety of other entities including data brokers which are kind of quasi legal and often have data that come from breaches or other um information that is not public records. Flux data may also be exposed via password sharing or password compromise and above all by cyber security data breaches. The dangers of mass surveillance tools, especially as they rapidly change and grow and incorporate AI capabilities, far outpace

1:49:13 the abilities of cities and law enforcement staff to effectively govern and moderate their use. They sit above the ability of our government entities to regulate, control, and protect their data and thus protect their citizens. Citizens who trust their community and their law enforcement both create a safer community, safer law enforcement. I'm asking you to consider the safety and the privacy of all of your citizens and please remove these cameras. Thank you. Hi, uh my name is Glenn. I currently live in Eugene. However, I've lived for 13 years between the two, a lifelong resident of Oregon, and I'm here to talk

1:49:59 about our block cameras. Flock cameras are a just a gross oversight and it is really deplorable that as both cities consider having these that it's an acceptable form of tracking to have every resident's information for, you know, 30 days. I think in uh Eugene's case and you know the government has tools to track phones to you know listen to phone calls to do these things already. The problem well the difference is is that they need warrants right they need proof they need criminal activity going on in order to facilitate those from a judge because they're you know regulated from the government. things

1:50:44 like Flock and other uh automated license plate readers, there are no regulations such as that. There's no requirements for a warrant. There's no anything. It's all a piece of paper and a contract. And I think that although everybody has the best intentions, I'm sure um people are human and it's going to get misused. I think that um you know, personally I don't have a criminal record. I don't, you know, do a bunch of spooky stuff, but at the same time, I don't want people to just be able to Google up where my car is for the past month. I think that that's egregious. I think it's a it feels like a really big invasion in my privacy. Um, as people have spoke to here. Um, I think that it is just

1:51:31 there's so many cases and possibilities for abuse that although whatever positives would potentially come from it, it's not worth the cost and our privacy. Um, I implore you to reconsider your contract and uh hopefully cancel the installation. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, our next two people are Jordan Kelly and Jeff Nelson. Hi. Hi. I'm Jordan Kelly. I don't know what ward I'm in, but I live off of 32nd in Maine by the Bob Kefir Center. And I

1:52:18 would like to talk about flock cameras. If I went into Best Buy and I bought the cheapest laptop, I could get near a Flock camera and I could access this Bluetooth and then I with just a little bit of techsavviness could access the entire Flock Safety system. It's not a very secure system. It's just not. Um Eugene and Springfield Police, they're not going to share our data. Flock Safety is going to share our data. No one's naive to think that they're not going to sell it. And anybody can use this if they want to. It's a couple YouTube videos away from figuring out how to jailbreak the system. It's just not that secure. Saying no to flock safety isn't saying no to fighting crime. It's not saying no to helping the police do that. It's not

1:53:04 even saying no to using advanced AI technology, which is inevitable and going to happen. It's not saying no to using that technology. Saying no to flock safety is saying no to low standards where we allow the data that we don't own to be owned by whoever wants to invest in it to get access to it and it's saying no to a low security system that is going to surveil everyone and that's all I have to say. >> Hello mayor and council. My name is Jeff Nelson. I'm general manager of Springfield Utility Board and I'm here on behalf of SUB. Wanted to start with some gratitude. Uh shout out to Maddie McGra, the museum creator who helped uh craft and put up the display for

1:53:50 celebrating sub 75th uh year of being in service to the citizens of citizens, residences and and businesses of Springfield. I also want to give a shout out to Kin Vogani, emergency manager at the city of Springfield. The Kin is working with Sanjiv King, the director of electric uh operations at SUB on a tabletop exercise which will be happening with SUB and um the city of Springfield uh functional annexes under the umbrella of the national um incident management system. So that exercise, that tabletop exercise will help reinforce uh better ways to communicate between sub and the different parts of

1:54:35 the city as we um have to navigate a future where we're um dealing with large scale incidents. So I want to recognize that. Uh, I also wanted to highlight that you likely have seen a postcard and wanted to highlight that this discussion is just a one item of many that we'll be having as future conversations with the council and the city and uh this has to deal with uh an expansion of subs uh water treatment facility on the near the Mackenzie River. Sub already has a surface water facility on the Mammoth. Uh you probably already know that but this is for resiliency to provide drinking water for our residents uh water for our

1:55:21 businesses, water for our hospitals and medical clinics and fire flow for dealing with emergencies. Thank you. >> Thank you. That is the last card I have. Um Neil, could you call the first person online? >> Yes. The first speaker we have is Sarah Jones, followed by Misty Frost. And Sarah, you should be able to unmute your microphone on your side. >> Hi, I'm Sarah. I live in Lane County up the McKenzie, but I frequent Springfield every week to connect to civilization. I'm asking you to cancel the police department's contract with flock cameras. This private company, whose startup was bankrolled in part by Peter Teal of Palunteer, is a major move toward a free speech quelling

1:56:07 surveillance state. The cart blanch surveillance of civilians and long-term storage of their surveillance data without any warrant or probable cause is a constitutional violation of unreasonable search. In fact, its breach of our right to privacy is being litigated in Virginia now and similar surveillance measures have been found unconstitutional by the Supreme Court in the past. The Flock camera system has already been abused. For example, in 2023, a monthsl long electronic frontier foundation investigation found that California police departments were sharing records containing detailed driving profiles of residents with outofstate agencies against California law. According to their master services agreement, Flock is able to share camera data with the federal government or

1:56:52 other departments and agencies, even if the police department theoretically owns that data. Flock claims that they are suspending cooperation with the federal government, but that position can be revoked at any time if you're even willing to take a scandal embroidered corporation like Flock at their word. Even if Springfield PD only shares that data with other departments in Oregon, it only takes one Oregon officer hundreds of miles away from here to share our data with the feds or whomever else they want, regardless of the Springfield's department's policies or state laws. The marginal benefit to public safety that it may provide is not worth the devastating damage it's already doing to jurisdictional sovereignty, our basic expectations of privacy and our ability to function as a sanctuary state

1:57:38 legally. Please spend that money on firefighters and cahoots instead. Thank you so much for your service to our community. >> Thank you. Next person. Sorry, the next speaker is Misty Frost, followed by Sam Cook. And Misty, you should be able to unmute your microphone. >> Thank you. My name is Misty Frost. I am a student at uh PSU and I'm also a community organizer in Lane County. I live in Eugene. I am asking uh city council to please cancel flock surveillance. These systems are built have built-in

1:58:24 biases against communities of color and people with disabilities and more. Please protect our community's privacy and cancel box surveillance. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> mayor. The next speaker is Sam Cook. And we have one additional hand up if you'd like to keep going. I >> I think we'll be fine. We put one more person. >> And the next speaker is Jacob TR. So Sam, you should be able to unmute your microphone. >> Hi. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Hello. Uh, my name is Sam Cook and I'm an organizer with the Party for Socialism and Liberation. I live in Eugene but work in Springfield as a technology specialist. I'm speaking to

1:59:09 you tonight about the city of Springfield's decision to implement flock cameras in town. I applaud Springfield for its transparency in this process and I hope that the spirit of dialogue will continue in reviewing this question. As we have heard from many folks tonight, there are a lot of concerns about essential services facing financial difficulty, firefighters being overworked, and the library facing budget cuts. Granted, the flock system comes from a state grant, but when that grant expires, we will be expected to foot that bill. Ongoing costs will be at least $171,000 per year. asking us to eventually pay for a system which spies on us and enriches a private corporation that seeks to profit off of our information while essential services face dire circumstances is ludicrous.

1:59:56 The flock system represents a waste of our state resources towards a regime of social control. This system endangers our hardworking immigrant neighbors and infringes upon our freedom of movement. I asked the council to consider prioritizing the needs of the people of Springfield and cancelling this contract in favor of investment in the resources that actually prevent and fight crime. I ask the city to reject the implementation of this system and implement an ongoing ban on ALPR systems. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Our next speaker is Jacob TR. And Jacob, you should be able to unmute your microphone. Uh hello. Can you hear me? >> Yes.

2:00:41 >> Great. Uh hi there. Uh my name is uh Jacob True. Um I'm a Eugene resident, but my kids play with their aunt and grandma over there in ward three. Um thank you to the mayor, city councilors, um and city staff there for uh letting us uh give testimony. I'm also here to talk about uh flock cameras and I won't belabor the point. um uh folks a lot more eloquent and uh well spoken and educated than me are able to uh go into why the details of why it's just so why it's not a good idea for there for Springfield or here in Eugene either. Um but uh big part of it's personal. Um I really don't want uh those uh flock cameras uh monitoring you know my kids they're playing uh with their grandma and their aunt. And um one thing that um

2:01:26 you know um I don't think other folks mentioned as much is that even with this whole you know deletion after 30 days thing um Flock uh in their contract um you know admits that uh they're keeping a chunk of that data to train their AI systems. So they're you know to to train um you know train up their their models there. So they are retaining data on us and um you know the fact that uh under their uh their models there they can not only just read license plates the whole ALPR side of things but they can also recognize bumper stickers and um you know dents and other things on the cars. Um it just feels like an overreach in um surveillance technology that I'm not

2:02:11 comfortable with. And uh I think uh y'all should consider the uh the um you know the the fine testimony of the folks who came before me and um reject this uh reject this contract and um discontinue and uh you know not put uh not putting any any block cameras up there in Springfield. Appreciate your consideration. Thank you for your time. Ch. >> Thank you so much. I just want to notify that there's nobody else in the queue. >> We have no more hands for this item. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you everybody for your patience. We're going to open it up to some council response here, but uh I just want to acknowledge that it has been a little bit of a marathon of public public testimony, which is good. That is why we're here to, you know, hear to hear from the public. Um, my

2:02:56 suggestion before we open this up, especially with the flock camera conversation, and I'm going to look to Nancy and see if there's a lot of feedback here, and it might be more helpful for us if we we got a longer memo about, you know, what the contract is, how we're implementing it, and start start with the basics. >> Uh, thank you, mayor. I I agree with you, and thank you to those of you who provided testimony this evening. Um, it's compelling and I think it's worthy of some further research and to get back to the uh policy body here. >> Okay. Um, councelor Rodley, >> I don't I I didn't want to move on to my comments about fire until I knew you had some comments about the flock camera.

2:03:41 >> I will totally kick us off. Um, so first of all, I am so grateful for all of you for coming out on a Tuesday night to share these things that are so important to you and to the residents of Springfield. So, I just want to thank you all for being here. Um, and then now I'm just going to vomit my comments on this. Um, thank you to the firefighters. It has never been a secret that I for me a fire district has been on the table from start to finish. I've been part of the governance conversation. I'm not always the majority voice at that table and yet I am there. I'm my primary lenses have been um the experiences of you all who are doing the work for the people of Springfield and the services

2:04:27 that are provided for our residents. So I really appreciate us elevating this conversation. I know that the governance conversation has gone on for a very long time. For those of us who have been on that, thought we were going to be done much sooner. I think we're on our third union president now in this conversation. And as much as I love getting to know all of you, um I absolutely support that we've got to move this conversation to the finish line. Um and see see what we can do. Uh I also really appreciate you all coming out and raising your concerns around the cameras. I think um this was something that sort of I personally didn't know that would that it was happening and it

2:05:12 sort of happened in a way that was absolutely um part of the process in terms of the expense and the responsibility that we have entrusted with our city manager who is abs doing a fine job and this is why we're all in this together so that when these things move in this way that folks can bring this to our attention and we can take a beat and try to figure out what's going on with it. I think concern about overreaching um surveillance. I remember us talking about this with the drones and I was one of those folks who was like, I need to know a lot more about this before we move forward. So, I appreciate you all being willing to come and share, as the city manager said, such compelling testimony so that we can take a pause

2:05:57 and figure out what works for our community. Um, and I just want to, as always, the folks who are coming in support of the library appreciate that and your eloquence and continuing that conversation. So, just know that your time was not wasted. Uh, from my perspective, I'm taking notes. I'm listening to everything that you say and um, appreciate the opportunity to take a minute and figure out what our next steps need to be. Thank you, Counc. >> I'm uncomfortable with the block cameras. Uh I've known we've had traffic cameras at all intersections of the city. There's another layer above that. I wasn't even aware of it like Corey. So, I'm uncomfortable with it right now.

2:06:43 In the future, that's probably going to happen. Right now, I'd not like that to happen now. So, that's my feelings right now. Michael, >> I just want to say thank you to everybody who is here tonight and who spoke. I think as uh you know volunteer- elected official, it's really enlightening to hear everyone's uh thoughts and ideas on um the the process and where they're coming from. I've done some research on the flock camera myself. Um and I I learned a lot tonight, so I appreciate that. Uh again, the and the fire department being here. Thank you so many people for showing up. Um, I remember when he emerged in 2010 and I would love to see this process come to a win-win situation for everyone. Thank you,

2:07:31 >> councelor Stone. >> I I so many of my counselors have said so many things wisely and I sincerely appreciate the flock camera comments. Thank you very much. Um, I think when we were going into the process, we looked at it as a money-saving option in very specific areas that were had a lot of accidents and were very accidentprone. And the second question in addition to what the city manager will provide is is what are the other options we have besides simply increasing surveillance because I am very much partial to that. And thank you very much to the firefighters for coming out and testifying. I am, as I mentioned in the work session, I am frustrated that we do not have a clear way to fully fund fire and the library. Thank you, >> Council Weber.

2:08:17 >> Well, everyone has said so many really really um insightful things and I want to just thank you all for coming too. It's a lot of folks in this room. Shows us how much you care about these topics that you're speaking to us about. I have several notes here. you've given us a lot to think about and uh we definitely have some conversations to have. So, thank you. >> All right. Um I just want to reiterate, thank you for coming out and talking about this. Um the the testimony is compelling and it raises a lot of good questions. We'll take a second for the staff to go back and research them. Um I thought the comment about the security was compelling. Uh I did they also think the comment about the location around me like medical facilities was particularly

2:09:02 compelling. We've got to have a chance to re to research it and get just the basic information about you know what's the plan you know what are we trying to accomplish and some of the you know basic questions and then that'll come to us in a in a memo so that we can have all kind of all the facts and prepare ourselves to have a longer conversation conversation about it. Um, I do want to thank the library folks for coming. Uh, somebody brought up Vessel, which is one of my favorite community projects of all time. Um, I know we've got a town hall specifically next week on Tuesday. Um, here in city hall, it's 5:30. Okay. Had to double check. Um, and it will be around talking about the future of the library. Uh, we the library is great.

2:09:48 The library, uh, Springfield has a library and its future. Um, and it contributes greatly to the civic pride of this area. I know it's a tough a tough conversation, but we just need an opportunity to work through clearly two or three uh challenging conversations. Um, the fire folks. Um, first of all, can you get councelor Rodley a shirt because uh >> I do not have a shirt, friends. >> She she collects those things. And I want to clarify for the record, at least one of those union presidents was promoted to fire chief. So you can't apparently you can't serve both roles. I'm a little frustrated with the length of time it's taking too and I want you guys to hear that from me because we're on the right process is for us to get the governance committee back together

2:10:34 and get to and and get to an answer. Um I do want to say right like I hear you guys when you talk about how hard you're working, how much how many dedicated hours you're putting in uh to serve the community of Springfield. Um this is particularly challenging um if you guys hadn't joined us at this point but one of the comments that came up at the work session was an understanding that whatever we do with with fire uh it is going to take more money um and it is going to take more investment. Um, when I look at it, I also want, you know, want to point out that you guys as a union are supporting the fire levy and that is I never I never remember the number of the station, but that's supporting that station out on on 28th and even though we're having kind of a

2:11:20 challenging conversation about governance, we are finding a way to work together between elected officials, the Springfield community, um, and you know, the union around u making sure that we're continuing the investment and support we have for services that we do have and that's noticed by me and I really do appreciate it. The one thing I will ask is just just a little bit of patience that the district if you read that report the district was considered and there is a lot of depth to that uh to to that conversation. We just have to get to the room and really begin to really begin to talk about, you know, what is the, you know, what is the right way to sort of balance the need to serve this community and invest in a way that makes that makes some sort of sense. My

2:12:06 concern still remains this compression issue. Um, Springfield is effectively a public safety town. Um, you know, we both appreciate fire and police here. Um, and and when you think about the affordability to make sure that residents, you know, can afford to stay here, that's a that's a that's a top-of- line concern for me. But I do know that there's a challenge here and we are going to work through it as quickly, you know, quickly as possible. The couple of asks that I have for you is as you're talking about in the community, and I know you guys are out there, is just you guys have worked for probably 10 years as a, you know, unified fire department. Um, but we are two different communities, right? And we have two different stories that got us to this point is continue to find the wrinkle.

2:12:51 And I heard it in some of your testimony because there were a lot of people who grew up in spring, you know, Springfield and um and share that information with folks and and simply right to just talk about the cost it's going to take, right? like in a you know in potentially challenging economic times right like the all local government is you know facing serious challenges around financing and when I listen to you that's the root that's the root cause of the problems that we're having right is as we have chosen property tax like the property tax measures have led to a a situation where um where it's it's challenging to fund local government at all levels and lastly I promise I will I I will I will finish just wrap up pretty quickly here. There is a countywide

2:13:37 ambulance task force that is meeting right now and that also informs this conversation because ambulance work is a lot well you guys know right but it is a big part of a part of your day-to-day life. Um, but I just want to end by saying, hey, like because you work dispersed across the community and you you there's not a lot of you in city hall, we don't get to see you a whole lot. And the big thing I want you to w, you know, end tonight with is just knowing that how much we appreciate what firefighters do in this community and that we thank you for coming out. And with that, um, I think we covered everything. if you guys want to stay for the fire mitig the hazard natural hazard mitigation plan um feel well you're welcome to do it. Um but now that we've

2:14:24 kind of talked through and um and heard a lot of the testimony um I'm going to give folks a couple of minutes. We still have a a few more agenda items. You're perfectly welcome to stay, but we're not going to be offended if you're you're ready to call it for a day.

2:15:38 Good job organizing and getting Springfield folks. >> Right. I didn't feel the best for everyone. >> I got to go first because they know I said I'm here for you. Let's do it. district. I would hate it if this district gets

2:16:30 Thank you so much for your patience. Next item, please. >> Mayor, the next item is resolutions. You have two this evening. The first resolution is the natural hazard mitigation plan update. This is resolution number one, a resolution of the city of Springfield common council adopting the April 2025 city of Springfield annex to the Lane County multi-jurisdictional natural hazard mitigation plan and replacing the plan adopted by resolution number 2020-04. Ken Voggan is here for this item.

2:17:20 Good evening, Mayor and Council. It's my pleasure to be here before you again this evening. Um, for the record, Ken Vogeny, the city's emergency manager. So, I uh bringing to you tonight for your consideration, approval of our next update to the natural hazard mitigation plan. You might be wondering what that is. I'll give just a little brief history. So for over 20 years, there has been a federal requirement that to be eligible for certain federal grant funds related to disaster preparedness, we would need to have a natural hazards mitigation plan and update that plan and have council adoption of the update on a five-year cycle. for city of

2:18:07 Springfield. When that started over 20 years ago, we jointly worked with city of Eugene to do a common or multi-jurisdictional plan for our natural hazards, recognizing that the natural hazards that affect Eugene are the same ones that affect Springfield and looking at that opportunity to leverage our ability to work together and have a common plan with common goals in are. And just for reference, this is the version that was adopted in 2020, roughly 450 pages. During our work for planning to update for the 2025 cycle, which typically

2:18:54 would start three years before the due date. So, we would adopt the plan, we take a two-year hiatus, and then we start to work three years ahead of our due date for doing the updates. Um but during that work in working with Eugene and at that time we had um in the 2020 plan we also had Eugene Water and Electric Board, Springfield Utility Board uh let's see and Rainbow Water District all as other jurisdictions and agencies that were partners on that plan. So, as we were working through getting ready to update, we came to a realization that the county's multi- uh natural hazard mitigation plan was also something that they were doing

2:19:39 every 5 years and they were greatly encouraging other jurisdictions to join as annexes to their plan. So we considered that um at the staff level brought it to the executive team and u they authorized moving ahead with pursuing becoming an annex to the county plan rather than maintaining our own plan. The benefit to that was we went from about 450 pages for our plan down to about 100 pages. So that's one benefit. Um but also we're much more coordinated that way with the county and having a a more common set of goals and objectives for how we address our

2:20:24 natural hazards and the mitigation actions that we might take. So, we have nine natural hazards here in our area that we address with this plan. Um, they are listed in your AIS, so I wasn't going to read them all. Um, but they do include things like flood, wildfire, landslide, winter storm. Those types of hazards are what we're discussing tonight. Um, we have prepared the annex. It was uh sent through to the both state and FEMA for review. We did receive what FEMA refers to as approval pending adoption. So, they've approved our plan once u the

2:21:09 council formally adopts the plan. Okay. because the county has uh had gotten their plan updated in 2023, we're a little bit off on the 5-year cycle. So, our next update will actually be with the county um concurrently with them, and that will be due in 2028. Part of the goal of these plans is at least one thing that we can do as a community to mitigate or reduce the impact of each of those natural hazards. So, for example, some of you may be aware of the 42nd Street levy and and the river channel migration work that we're doing. Those items are part of that natural hazard mitigation plan. And

2:21:56 so they had that opportunity to apply for federal uh grant funding through FEMA for those projects. So give you a little bit of tie on things we're doing. With that, I'll wrap it up if you have any questions. Um otherwise, I would ask for your consideration of the resolution. Are there any questions? >> Uh councelor Stout. >> Um just real quick, the on the mitigation action items. Yes. By adopting this plan, does that oblige just to complete those mitigation items or will those come up kind of item by item? >> Thank you, counselor. Um, no. This is not a regulatory or binding plan. These are items that we will report on whether or not we were able to make progress, but it's something that gives us an opportunity to also seek other funding

2:22:41 to help uh make those happen. >> All right, I think we're ready for a motion. I move adoption of resolution number one. >> Second. >> Could you call the vote, please? >> Yes. Councelor Weber, >> yes. >> Councelor Mo, >> yes. >> Councelor Rodley, >> yes. >> Councelor Blackwell, >> yes. >> And councelor Stout, >> yes. Thank you. Motion passes. Five yeses, zero nos. Next item, please. >> Your second resolution is grant application for housing capacity analysis. This is resolution number two. a resolution in support of a grant application seeking planning assistance from the Department of Land Conservation and Development to assist with housing capacity analysis. Chelsea Hartman is here for this item. >> Good evening, Mayor and Council. I think

2:23:27 the last time I was here with you all was talking about all the new housing planning requirements that are um coming up for us. So, the state is continuing to do rulem around what we're required to do for housing planning um to increase housing production, affordability, and choice. The new state rules are really complex and they're not finished um being written. So, they should be done by the end of this year and then we'll have a full understanding of what's required of us. But, it is requiring a lot more technical work and a lot more community engagement as we do our housing planning. And due to the heavy lift that the new rules require, staff applied for a housing planning assistance grant offered by the Department of Land Conservation and Development, DLCD. If awarded the grant, this would provide

2:24:12 technical assistance via a DLCD managed consultant, similar to what we did for the climate friendly areas work, which is also state required. Um, this would support us in completing our required housing capacity analysis by December 2027. This will also help us stay on track to prepare and adopt our another required product, the housing production strategy by December 2028. The city would be providing a match through staff time. The housing capacity analysis includes planning to accommodate the city's 20-year housing need by type, characteristics, locations, and different affordability levels. It will include inventorying our land within our current urban growth boundary to assess the residential development capacity and

2:24:58 identify how we can accommodate the housing needs more efficiently using land in our current urban growth boundary or looking at expanding the urban growth boundary if needed. Attachment two in the packet includes the draft work program that was submitted as part of the grant application to the state. That is subject to change if we are awarded funding. That's when project scoping would be going on and specific funding would be allotted if we're matched with a consultant. Um, and then attachment one includes the resolution for your consideration. Uh, the state requires a resolution from the elected officials to support the grant application and the state will be awarding funding sometime this month in September. >> Yeah, >> Councley.

2:25:44 >> Thank you. Um, and I'm just going to use this as an opportunity to pontificate just a little bit. Uh, first of all, I really appreciate um, and I support this and I appreciate you all. This is this is a perfect example of what's so fantastic about Springfield is that this stuff came to us and you all got really scrappy and creative about trying to figure out a way that we can be compliant. And I think it'll be really useful to have this. And it's also one of those things where it kind of came down to us and we got to figure out how to make it happen and use the resources. But then I also wanted to use this as just an opportunity to talk about this as a perfect example of why we do use consultants. Um because I've had some folks who've come to me and and asked about why does Springfield use

2:26:29 consultants? And I explained to them that we don't have the deepest of benches. Um, and when we need really specific technical help or when these things come at us that we have to like adjust and try to comply as quickly as possible, consultants are are a way that we can do that. And this is a this is a just a perfect example of having to us creatively getting the funding to support a thing that we have to do so that we can have the specialists that we otherwise not that you all are fantastic, but that we just don't have on our bench. So, I'm just wanted to pontificate. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? >> I move adoption of resolution number two. >> Second.

2:27:14 >> Pretty well. Could you call the vote, please? >> Yes. Councelor Weber, >> yes. >> Councelor Mo, >> yes. >> Councelor Bradley, >> yes. >> Councelor Blackwell, >> yes. >> Councelor Stuff, >> yes. Thank you. >> Motion passes. Five yeses, zero nos. Next item, please. Any business from the city council? I think we are good. >> Any business from the city manager? >> No further business. >> Uh the city attorney has the next item. This is W 5 city council resignation acceptance and interim council appointment process discussion and Mary Bridges Smith is here for this item. >> Uh good evening mayor and council. I'm here uh tonight to start the uh conversation about filling the vacancy created by councelor Doyle's recent resignation over the summer recess. So

2:28:01 um councelor, as you know, councelor Doyle resigned over the summer recess. Now the council is obligated to select a um interim counselor and I'll be walking you through that process here in the next few months. The first part of that process is to officially declare that uh position vacant. And then next Monday, I'll be back before you in a special meeting to talk about um more specifically about the process for selecting and appointing the interim counselor and then also to conduct a public hearing so the public can provide some feedback about that process. the materials you will see next week really mirror the um uh process from the last vacancy um in W 4. So um if you want to

2:28:46 see something different, we can talk about that on Monday or you can give me some feedback tonight um and we can work on that for next week. But really for tonight, I'm just looking for a motion to accept uh the resignation and any feedback you have about the process. >> Let's do feedback first and then we'll do the motion. Anybody have I it it worked pretty well. >> Say I wasn't here for the process before so I don't really have feedback the other other um experience of it. >> Um okay I think we are good on you know changes to the process. Uh council Weber >> I move to accept the resignation of Victoria Doyle as w five city counselor and find the position vacant. Second.

2:29:34 >> Gil, could you call the vote, please? Yes. Councelor Weber, >> yes. >> Councelor Mo, >> yes. >> Councelor Bradley, >> yes. >> Councelor Blackwell, >> yes. >> And councelor Stout, >> yes. Thank you. Motion passes. Five yeses, zero nos. >> No other business from the city attorney. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you everybody. Have a good night. And we have adjourned.